Question

[Rhiannon]

If you will promise to fuck me with respect, sure why not.

I'll respect you when you post with some sense. You stop your race baiting and I'll respect you, deal? Whitey rules!

He asked you to fuck him with respect.
You negated the respect, but left the fucking wide open.

That's dangerous around these parts.

[Rockindeano]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

[pedro]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

[Rockindeano]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

No. L E T M E E X P L A I N I T T O Y O U S L O W L Y . HOW much you charge to wash a car?

Fuck with this board tonight and I will wrap your slimy ass up in a tortilla and drop kick you into that shithole country south of Texas.

[strangegrey]

I have this unnatural hatred for Arnel because _______________________.

There's nothing unnatural about it.

I have a natural hatred for Arnel because shitbags like you, that can't see straight, love the guy...

Hows that, fucko?

[AR]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

Dios! Vas a callarte?

[pedro]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

No. L E T M E E X P L A I N I T T O Y O U S L O W L Y . HOW much you charge to wash a car?

Fuck with this board tonight and I will wrap your slimy ass up in a tortilla and drop kick you into that shithole country south of Texas.

haha the guy didnt get it. I thought u were sharp man

[Journey69]

I consider myself a passionate Journey fan -- be it the Perry-era, Augeri-era, Soto-era, or the soon-to-be Arnel-era -- I've always considered the whole to be greater than its individual parts; Journey > Steve Perry, Journey > Neal Schon, Journey > Jonathan Cain. Granted, Neal and company's decency for treating JSS and SA leaves something to be desired, but as I said in my first post: Journey's a rock band, not a crash course for business ethics.

Question: why do so many people seem to have this unnatural hatred for Arnel? I mean, no offense, but I see no reason for it. He's not responsible for JSS's departure. He's not the reason Perry has retired. He's not responsible for the betrayal of Augeri. I question the reasons behind the anti-Arnel movement here, and -- while I can understand, perhaps disliking the way the man sings -- some people around here seem to hate the guy as a human being.

Why?

To be honest, it's beyond obsessive. It screams "instability!"

Just looking for some insight and enlightenment. Let's not flame.

I think I have an answer for you:

Honestly, I don't think most people on here really hate Arnel. He's just the easy target for the anger at Neal and Jon over the whole JSS thing. It's silly really. Normally if you're angry at someone, you complain about the person who you're angry at. My guess is those who make fun of Arnel do so thinking it will affect the band in some way as payback for their actions against Jeff. Those that supported Jeff would like nothing better than to see Journey fall flat on their face without him. If they can spread enough bile, they think they can influence others who are on the fence about Arnel and this will help bring about some justice for Jeff. This is my opinion as to why they do it.

Personally, I think what Neal and Jon did was reprehensible. They pulled a guy in at the last minute and threw him to the wolves. To his credit, he stepped up to the plate and not only saved their financial asses, but by all accounts, the majority of fans really liked him. Then they offered him the official permanent lead singer position, let him announce it live on stage while on tour, then yanked the rug out from under him AFTER they were clear of their difficult touring obligations and didn't even have the decency to tell him themselves. Simply disgusting.

I myself never saw the tour with JSS. Personally, I wasn't for Jeff in Journey. I had heard Soul Sirkus and really didn't like the album. I didn't think Neal and Jeff had chemistry. Then I heard the demo of winds of freedom. While it's not a great song (let's face it, the lyrics are simply cheesy), it showed me a glimpse of what might have been. A new direction that still held the emotional element we've come to expect from the band called Journey without putting a Perry clone on the mic.

Hope that answers your question, but now I have a comment to make about your perceptions of us and the reasons you are less attached to the original lineup than we are:

I think the reason you consider yourself a fan of the whole band Journey is because you were exposed to them in the Augeri era. You discovered all their material at once, all the hits all the back albums, whereas a majority of the rest of us were along for the ride from their start, with the originator of their sound, Steve Perry. When Perry came along, it was like nothing else anyone had heard. It was extremely unique and it's the thing that built Journey's fan base into what it is today. Yes, Perry was the originator of the sound which you have heard cloned, copied, reproduced (although not with the same skill level) by other singers (ie. Augeri, Deen and countless others who have taken influence from him). What you have to understand is that when less experienced (sorry to say it) younger people, hear the history of this band performed again and again by copycats, the impact the originator of that material made doesn't seem as special. My point is, if you had grown with the band as we did, you wouldn't feel the same way.

Case in point:
Most people today look at actors such as Robert DeNiro or Al Pacino and don't see what's so special about them. What they don't realize is that those guys originated an approach to acting that was so unique when they did it (ie. Godfather) that it stood out above the norm at that time. Since then, other talented actors, fans in fact, have watched these performances, emulated and repeated their techniques again and again to the point that the originators techniques are now found in performances in most movie actors today. After we're exposed to the 'students' of these original talents again and again, it makes the originators techniques seem less special and more common.

This is what I see happening with Journey and Steve Perry.

When fans grow with a band, especially one with as distinctive a sound and emotionally charged music as Journey, they develop an emotional attachment to the band and its music. Music sparks memories and feelings associated with the times in which we lived. Fans feel slighted, cheated, even ripped off when a copycat is brought in to replace the originator because of that emotional connection to the music and the artists who created it. For most, Journey's main ingredient has been and always will be Steve Perry. Make no mistake, whatever sound Journey has now was built on the creative involvement of Steve Perry. Neal and Gregg were not moving in the musical direction we now call Journey. They were primarily a progressive rock band. Their song writing and melody choices did not have the R&B foundation it developed with Perry's involvement. They didn't even want Perry in the band. Herbie shoved him down their throats. Had Perry not joined the band, odds are there would be no Journey, but if it did continue, Jon Cain wouldn't have joined. We wouldn't have had Escape or Frontiers (which is where a majority of the GH's come from).

That being said, I think today, Journey would have had a chance to keep its hard core fan base happy had they intentionally replaced Perry with someone who sounded NOTHING like him. Certainly not Augeri. Certainly not Chalfant and certainly not Arnel. They needed someone with sophisticated vocal chords and a soulful delivery to compliment Neal's melodic guitar and Jon's musicianship. That would have been enough to truly move on and stand on their own feet without Perry. Jeff proved this was possible.

It's not Neal's fault Perry quit. He waited years for that guy to come around. Journey had a chance to prove they were more than Perry's backing band by going with another singer who didn't sound like him. Yet at almost every turn, they've looked for a Perry clone while making statements like "they're moving on". They're not moving on. They're recreating Perry's artistry with another artist. That's low. It insults Perry and it insults the fans who supported them with Perry.

Sorry to bring up the youth thing, but you didn't experience Journey the way we did. You're experiencing a tribute band made up of the original members. That's just not the same thing. It's a nostalgia act.

Unless Caveman's reports hold water and Arnel lives up to the hype, this band will remain just that. A nostalgia act living off revenue generated from their greatest hits tour year after year. Greatest hits created and performed by the band largely influenced by Steve Perry.

Hope this is a strong enough explanation. Don't read anger or malice into this explanation. Remember the written word comes off harsh without inflection. (I honestly think that's where a lot of the flame wars come from on this board)

Story Teller.... That was extremely impressive..And I don't impress easily.. You almost hit the nail on the head.. I will guarantee you,almost everyone would probably agree with you on this..And that is rare around here.. Saint John also has a good point... But this was very impressive to read..For me anyhow..

[Saint John]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

No. L E T M E E X P L A I N I T T O Y O U S L O W L Y . HOW much you charge to wash a car?

Fuck with this board tonight and I will wrap your slimy ass up in a tortilla and drop kick you into that shithole country south of Texas.

Fuck, there are just as many Mexicans in Texas as there are in Meixco, holmes.

[AR]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

No. L E T M E E X P L A I N I T T O Y O U S L O W L Y . HOW much you charge to wash a car?

Fuck with this board tonight and I will wrap your slimy ass up in a tortilla and drop kick you into that shithole country south of Texas.

haha the guy didnt get it. I thought u were sharp man

Me parece que la vena de la lengua pasa por tu culo porque hablas mucha mierda!

[AR]

STORY_TELLER - that pretty much covers it.

[Liam]

Hey pedro, how much you charge for SUV's?

I didn't know pigs owns SUVs?

No. L E T M E E X P L A I N I T T O Y O U S L O W L Y . HOW much you charge to wash a car?

Fuck with this board tonight and I will wrap your slimy ass up in a tortilla and drop kick you into that shithole country south of Texas.

Fuck, there are just as many Mexicans in Texas as there are in Meixco, holmes.

Don't I know it.

[Andrew]

Some people in this thread are dangerously close to a holiday.