Waite relationship w/ Cain & Schon?

[roycap]

Gang - I am a big John Waite and Journey fan. I know Waite (along w/ Frampton) opened for Journey back in 2001. What is the relationship between Waite and those two? Was Bad English a good experience for Waite and does he still consider those guys friends?

[G.I.Jim]

Gang - I am a big John Waite and Journey fan. I know Waite (along w/ Frampton) opened for Journey back in 2001. What is the relationship between Waite and those two? Was Bad English a good experience for Waite and does he still consider those guys friends?

From everything I've heard, I don't think you'd even get those guys in the same room! I could be wrong, but it seems I read a long time ago on here that there's some bad blood between them! Quite a shame because honestly, I think I'd rather hear another Bad English album then a new Journey one. I'm definitely reserving judgement on Arnel, but Bad English just rocked!

[Enigma869]

Funny how the one constant in ALL of these strained relationships is Mr. Schon! He no longer gets along with Perry...He no longer gets along with Augeri...He no longer gets along with Jeff...and he no longer gets along with John Waite!


John from Boston

[yulog]

As far as i have heard the strain was between cain and Waite ,not Schon
Neal came out and played with Waite at that concert.

[youkeepmewaiting]

As far as i have heard the strain was between cain and Waite ,not Schon
Neal came out and played with Waite at that concert.

Cain probably thought he was was bigger than the British legend that is Mr Waite

[Enigma869]

As far as i have heard the strain was between cain and Waite ,not Schon
Neal came out and played with Waite at that concert.

Then my apologies to Mr. Schon! For once, he isn't the one at the center of a hateful relationship! He is certainly front and center of the other three relationships I alluded to!


John from Boston

[Andrew]

Gang - I am a big John Waite and Journey fan. I know Waite (along w/ Frampton) opened for Journey back in 2001. What is the relationship between Waite and those two? Was Bad English a good experience for Waite and does he still consider those guys friends?

Not good. Ended badly and hasn't changed much since.

[Rip Rokken]

I never really got John Waite... I did like both Bad English CDs (maybe the 2nd one even more than the 1st, but it's been several years since I've listened to either). Don't know very much about his solo stuff, either, but he just didn't seem to be much of a vocalist to me (very simplistic singing style IMO), and I think I'd read that he had a huge ego and was a bit of a prick. If I need to be better educated on J.W., feel free to school me.

[youkeepmewaiting]

I never really got John Waite... I did like both Bad English CDs (maybe the 2nd one even more than the 1st, but it's been several years since I've listened to either). Don't know very much about his solo stuff, either, but he just didn't seem to be much of a vocalist to me (very simplistic singing style IMO), and I think I'd read that he had a huge ego and was a bit of a prick. If I need to be better educated on J.W., feel free to school me.

as much as i think Waite is a legend, his voice isnt great. everytime i listen to bad english i think "this song would be much better if Perry was singing" .. but then again i think that about most songs haha

[Enigma869]

as much as i think Waite is a legend, his voice isnt great.

Huh??? You think this guy is a "legend" but his voice isn't great? What exactly is this guy a legend for??? Hell, I think the only song I've ever heard by John Waite was "Missing You", back in the 1980's! I actually thought it was a pretty good song, and had a Don Henley vibe to it. That said, I'm not sure how anyone thinks this guy is a "legend"! Hell, I could probably think of 100 singers off the top of my head who were better than John Waite!


John from Boston

[youkeepmewaiting]

as much as i think Waite is a legend, his voice isnt great.

Huh??? You think this guy is a "legend" but his voice isn't great? What exactly is this guy a legend for??? Hell, I think the only song I've ever heard by John Waite was "Missing You", back in the 1980's! I actually thought it was a pretty good song, and had a Don Henley vibe to it. That said, I'm not sure how anyone thinks this guy is a "legend"! Hell, I could probably think of 100 singers off the top of my head who were better than John Waite!


John from Boston

Yes, i think Ian Hunter is a legend, but his voice isnt great either.

[G.I.Jim]

as much as i think Waite is a legend, his voice isnt great.

Huh??? You think this guy is a "legend" but his voice isn't great? What exactly is this guy a legend for??? Hell, I think the only song I've ever heard by John Waite was "Missing You", back in the 1980's! I actually thought it was a pretty good song, and had a Don Henley vibe to it. That said, I'm not sure how anyone thinks this guy is a "legend"! Hell, I could probably think of 100 singers off the top of my head who were better than John Waite!


John from Boston

Yes, i think Ian Hunter is a legend, but his voice isnt great either.

Kiss aren't the best at ANYTHING they do (except maybe self promotion), but they're legends big-time. To me, John Waite's voice is not the best out there...it's his song writing and delivery of his lines that sets him apart. He's an amazingly talented dude!

[Andrew]

Funny how the one constant in ALL of these strained relationships is Mr. Schon! He no longer gets along with Perry...He no longer gets along with Augeri...He no longer gets along with Jeff...and he no longer gets along with John Waite!


John from Boston

Actually, you'll find a similar theme among those that have worked with Waite. JW is not regarded as an easy guy to work or deal with, so not Neal's fault here.

[Enigma869]

Funny how the one constant in ALL of these strained relationships is Mr. Schon! He no longer gets along with Perry...He no longer gets along with Augeri...He no longer gets along with Jeff...and he no longer gets along with John Waite!


John from Boston

Actually, you'll find a similar theme among those that have worked with Waite. JW is not regarded as an easy guy to work or deal with, so not Neal's fault here.

Duly noted, Drew. Someone else had mentioned that earlier in this thread, so I offered a mea culpa, after I was set straight. I don't know the same stories about John Waite. While some on the other side of the pond may consider him to be a "legend", I don't know that you would find 10 Americans who felt quite that way about John Waite. In fact, I think he would probably be the answer to more "one hit wonder" trivia questions than "legend" questions, in this country!

In all honesty, even though I'm the biggest Perry fan on the planet, I really don't hold Schon, solely responsible, for the breakdown of the relationship. The reality is that EVERYONE had a hand in it! The only issue I really have with Schon is the mockery he has turned the Journey name into. I have listened to Arnel, and I honestly think the guy has the best set of pipes I've heard (singing Journey music), since Perry escaped! That said, the revolving door lead singer act guarantees that Journey is never going to have credibility in the music industry again. Could they possibly become today's version of Foreigner (i.e. a successful touring band with a new lead singer, yet again)? Absolutely. I think their catalogue of music sells itself. I just don't see bands like Journey (or Foreigner, for that matter) becoming musically relevant, any time soon!


John from Boston

[annie89509]

as much as i think Waite is a legend, his voice isnt great.

Huh??? You think this guy is a "legend" but his voice isn't great? What exactly is this guy a legend for??? Hell, I think the only song I've ever heard by John Waite was "Missing You", back in the 1980's! I actually thought it was a pretty good song, and had a Don Henley vibe to it. That said, I'm not sure how anyone thinks this guy is a "legend"! Hell, I could probably think of 100 singers off the top of my head who were better than John Waite!


John from Boston

Yes, i think Ian Hunter is a legend, but his voice isnt great either.

Kiss aren't the best at ANYTHING they do (except maybe self promotion), but they're legends big-time. To me, John Waite's voice is not the best out there...it's his song writing and delivery of his lines that sets him apart. He's an amazingly talented dude!

Hehe, I'm not sure what constitutes legendary status, either, but that word certainly is used a lot in print to describe many, many artists. Heck, even Madonna is a legend. 20 years from now, Justin Timberlake will have "legend" attached to his name. And kanaye West.

[Onestepper]

Funny how the one constant in ALL of these strained relationships is Mr. Schon! He no longer gets along with Perry...He no longer gets along with Augeri...He no longer gets along with Jeff...and he no longer gets along with John Waite!


John from Boston

Actually, you'll find a similar theme among those that have worked with Waite. JW is not regarded as an easy guy to work or deal with, so not Neal's fault here.

Duly noted, Drew. Someone else had mentioned that earlier in this thread, so I offered a mea culpa, after I was set straight. I don't know the same stories about John Waite. While some on the other side of the pond may consider him to be a "legend", I don't know that you would find 10 Americans who felt quite that way about John Waite. In fact, I think he would probably be the answer to more "one hit wonder" trivia questions than "legend" questions, in this country!

In all honesty, even though I'm the biggest Perry fan on the planet, I really don't hold Schon, solely responsible, for the breakdown of the relationship. The reality is that EVERYONE had a hand in it! The only issue I really have with Schon is the mockery he has turned the Journey name into. I have listened to Arnel, and I honestly think the guy has the best set of pipes I've heard (singing Journey music), since Perry escaped! That said, the revolving door lead singer act guarantees that Journey is never going to have credibility in the music industry again. Could they possibly become today's version of Foreigner (i.e. a successful touring band with a new lead singer, yet again)? Absolutely. I think their catalogue of music sells itself. I just don't see bands like Journey (or Foreigner, for that matter) becoming musically relevant, any time soon!


John from Boston

Think you could stop signing every post you make with your name and where you are from? This isn't a radio show.

[Enigma869]

Think you could stop signing every post you make with your name and where you are from? This isn't a radio show.

Fuck Off Jackass!


John from Boston

p.s. Welcome to Melodic Rock, Jackass!

[Rick]

Funny how the one constant in ALL of these strained relationships is Mr. Schon! He no longer gets along with Perry...He no longer gets along with Augeri...He no longer gets along with Jeff...and he no longer gets along with John Waite!


John from Boston

Actually, you'll find a similar theme among those that have worked with Waite. JW is not regarded as an easy guy to work or deal with, so not Neal's fault here.

Duly noted, Drew. Someone else had mentioned that earlier in this thread, so I offered a mea culpa, after I was set straight. I don't know the same stories about John Waite. While some on the other side of the pond may consider him to be a "legend", I don't know that you would find 10 Americans who felt quite that way about John Waite. In fact, I think he would probably be the answer to more "one hit wonder" trivia questions than "legend" questions, in this country!

In all honesty, even though I'm the biggest Perry fan on the planet, I really don't hold Schon, solely responsible, for the breakdown of the relationship. The reality is that EVERYONE had a hand in it! The only issue I really have with Schon is the mockery he has turned the Journey name into. I have listened to Arnel, and I honestly think the guy has the best set of pipes I've heard (singing Journey music), since Perry escaped! That said, the revolving door lead singer act guarantees that Journey is never going to have credibility in the music industry again. Could they possibly become today's version of Foreigner (i.e. a successful touring band with a new lead singer, yet again)? Absolutely. I think their catalogue of music sells itself. I just don't see bands like Journey (or Foreigner, for that matter) becoming musically relevant, any time soon!


John from Boston

Think you could stop signing every post you make with your name and where you are from? This isn't a radio show.

That's his trademark. Leave him alone on that. If you want to beat up on him about something, talk trash about the Patriots, that gets him going!

[Enigma869]

That's his trademark. Leave him alone on that. If you want to beat up on him about something, talk trash about the Patriots, that gets him going!

Thanks Rick! Luckily for me, I don't think this is the season too many people are going to be talking trash about the Patriots! No matter what happens from this point forward, they are the first team in the history of the NFL to be 15-0 in the regular season. I just hope to hell if they're going to lose, they get it out of their system next Saturday against the Giants!


John from Boston

[Rick]

That's his trademark. Leave him alone on that. If you want to beat up on him about something, talk trash about the Patriots, that gets him going!

Thanks Rick! Luckily for me, I don't think this is the season too many people are going to be talking trash about the Patriots! No matter what happens from this point forward, they are the first team in the history of the NFL to be 15-0 in the regular season. I just hope to hell if they're going to lose, they get it out of their system next Saturday against the Giants!


John from Boston

Congrats on that. I'm sure they'll go undefeated. It's been a long wait for that record to fall.

[Onestepper]

Think you could stop signing every post you make with your name and where you are from? This isn't a radio show.

Fuck Off Jackass!


John from Boston

p.s. Welcome to Melodic Rock, Jackass!

You don't need to welcome me..I've been here for awhile. Sorry I haven't posted 1,000 times. I understand that's what determines your manhood around here.

Merry Christmas John from Boston. Thanks for hanging on the line for 45 minutes.

And if all you can do is call me names? Don't bother...someone much more powerful and all encompassing has got that covered around here. Just ask him.

[Enigma869]

You don't need to welcome me..I've been here for awhile. Sorry I haven't posted 1,000 times. I understand that's what determines your manhood around here.

Merry Christmas John from Boston. Thanks for hanging on the line for 45 minutes.

And if all you can do is call me names? Don't bother...someone much more powerful and all encompassing has got that covered around here. Just ask him.

In that case, I take my welcome back! As far as calling you names...you fired the first shot, not I! I assumed that you were new, because my signature has been the same for the year and a half I've been a member here. You're the first one who has had an issue with it! One final thing...You can shove your sarcasm up your ass...I have that market covered pretty well around here


John from Boston

[Rick]

You can shove your sarcasm up your ass...I have that market covered pretty well around here

You have your moments. I agree with you though, Onestepper shouldn't call someone out like that and then cry when a hand get slapped. Then taking pot shots at Deano is just stupid. That's just masochistic.

[Enigma869]

:lol: You have your moments. I agree with you though, Onestepper shouldn't call someone out like that and then cry when a hand get slapped. Then taking pot shots at Deano is just stupid. That's just masochistic.

I should have known it was Dean this putz was referring to. Usually Dean and I always loathe the same people



John from Boston

[annie89509]

Bad English was formed in late ‘88, after Jon went down to visit Steve in LA, trying to talk him into coming back to Journey, with no luck. It's all there in an interview article archived at Perryville. Also, there is a 2-cd boot out there of an Up Close radio show that was originally broadcasted around the time featuring the band's latest release -- Journey's Greatest Hits. The announcer said the band has broken up, and the show played their hits, interspersed with bandmembers' pre-recorded anecdotes. One remark that stood out for me was Neal saying: "If this was to be the end of Journey, I wished we had made a better last record." I take it he meant ROR.

Bad English's 1st record came out around '89, and I guess it was successful because they had that #1 single written by Diane Warren, and they toured since there are videos around showing them on stage performing. The word was they had a volatile time in the studio making their 2nd album and it showed on the finished product. By their next session, they completely imploded in the studio, and the 3rd album never got finished or released. No more Bad English, the guys went their separate ways. JohnW went back to solo, Neal joined Hardline, Jon did his pianoman stuff.

Years later, again getting the jest of the situation from archived interviews, the revelation was it was Jon&John that had monumental conflicts and Neal was kind of caught in the middle. Which made sense to me, because: 1) Jon had a strong writing connection with SP (quote "we are both romanticists at heart."). 2) Remember, Waite didn't "get" Jon's Open Arms. 3) Neal is the kind of guy that just wants to play--make records and tour.

I think we all know (after everything that has happened with this band) that Jon is the guy that needs to control. Herbie has alluded to this side of Jon; fans "in the know" has seen his mood swings; certainly, the JSS "firing" points to Jon, and I would surmise Jon had something to do with the riffs between SP and Neal. Neal gets the blame for everything because it is his band, but people have speculated that it is Jon that actually pulls the strings.

I want to qualify by saying that this is all fan speculation. Only those people involved know the truth.

[7 Wishes]

John Waite has a fantastic voice. Period.

[Monker]

The word was they had a volatile time in the studio making their 2nd album and it showed on the finished product. By their next session, they completely imploded in the studio, and the 3rd album never got finished or released. No more Bad English, the guys went their separate ways. JohnW went back to solo, Neal joined Hardline, Jon did his pianoman stuff.

This is not quite accurate.

BE broke up shortly after, or even before, "Backlash" was released. I remember following that...the single was released and then shortly after that, they had broken up. They did not announce anything about it...probably because they did not want to hurt album sales. Neal eventualy announced Hardline and then it was out there.

There was no third album...There are cut songs from Backlash out there. Hardline even recorded one. But, they did not start work on a third album.

Years later, again getting the jest of the situation from archived interviews, the revelation was it was Jon&John that had monumental conflicts and Neal was kind of caught in the middle. Which made sense to me, because: 1) Jon had a strong writing connection with SP (quote "we are both romanticists at heart."). 2) Remember, Waite didn't "get" Jon's Open Arms. 3) Neal is the kind of guy that just wants to play--make records and tour.

Read the Force interviews with Jonathan. He basicaly says that John wanted to be a "rock star" and was doing whatever it took to get there. Jonathan even had to make deals with Waite and the label to get his songs on the album. They did not need a Diane Warren song on BE's debut. IMO, "Price of Love" is better anyway. Some quotes I remember from that interview:

"We didn't have to be a kiss-as corporate rock band. But that is what we became."
"We had a #1 song but we couldn't sell 2000 tickets. That told me all I needed to know."
"A band has a fate, a life, and an existance. IT just died. IT came to an end. The only consolation is we still have CD's out there. So, we have not totaly vanished yet."
"When we quit, the label did not even try to keep us together. They knew how screwed up it was."

If you read what John Waite had to say, he wanted the band to explore a darker side to the music which the other members were not too keen on. This does not make sense to me since he was involved in supporting getting "When I See You Smile" on the album...and his solo album that followed this was not all that "dark". The 'darker' BE songs seem to be from Neal and Jonathan - not John Waite.

I think the bottom line is that Jonathan wanted to take the band in one direction and John Waite wanted to go in another...and they could not come to a compromise...and they could not both be the leader of the band.

[Onestepper]

You don't need to welcome me..I've been here for awhile. Sorry I haven't posted 1,000 times. I understand that's what determines your manhood around here.

Merry Christmas John from Boston. Thanks for hanging on the line for 45 minutes.

And if all you can do is call me names? Don't bother...someone much more powerful and all encompassing has got that covered around here. Just ask him.

In that case, I take my welcome back! As far as calling you names...you fired the first shot, not I! I assumed that you were new, because my signature has been the same for the year and a half I've been a member here. You're the first one who has had an issue with it! One final thing...You can shove your sarcasm up your ass...I have that market covered pretty well around here


John from Boston

I didn't 'take a shot' at you..I was commenting on you always using your signature. I actually thought it was quite funny smarty pants. But since you started calling me names from the get go and needed to bring post counts, you deserve everything you get. Think you are the only one that can have an attitude nutbreath? Merry fuckin' Christmas half brain. Now go sign your name on some X-Mas presents so you can feel better about yourself once again.

[G.I.Jim]

You don't need to welcome me..I've been here for awhile. Sorry I haven't posted 1,000 times. I understand that's what determines your manhood around here.

Merry Christmas John from Boston. Thanks for hanging on the line for 45 minutes.

And if all you can do is call me names? Don't bother...someone much more powerful and all encompassing has got that covered around here. Just ask him.

In that case, I take my welcome back! As far as calling you names...you fired the first shot, not I! I assumed that you were new, because my signature has been the same for the year and a half I've been a member here. You're the first one who has had an issue with it! One final thing...You can shove your sarcasm up your ass...I have that market covered pretty well around here


John from Boston

I didn't 'take a shot' at you..I was commenting on you always using your signature. I actually thought it was quite funny smarty pants. But since you started calling me names from the get go and needed to bring post counts, you deserve everything you get. Think you are the only one that can have an attitude nutbreath? Merry fuckin' Christmas half brain. Now go sign your name on some X-Mas presents so you can feel better about yourself once again.

That's...not...nice...at...all!!!

Jim from South Carolina

[annie89509]

I stand corrected regarding a 3rd album. All my knowledge, my sense of Journey history came only from the last few years, pouring through archived info from fan sites, label press releases, and Journey boots. And there is a LOT out there. The whole Journey saga is SO fascinating, unfolding like a TV soap opera right before my eyes.

My assumption about a 3rd album has to do with BE supposedly had a very rough time making the 2nd album and that there were talk about a 3rd session attempt (we know only 2 albums were released). Maybe the source had it wrong. Monker was right there during those years.