Stage Presence DOES matter!

[donnaplease]

I've recently been thinking about this debate. It's been said here that Arnel's lack of stage presence has to do with the fact that the Asian culture is different than the western culture in that they don't 'get into' the music like we do here. The clips of the Perry-era Journey in Japan have been referenced as something to relate to. At first, I thought, "yeah, that makes sense".

A few days ago, however, I ran across these YouTube clips from a japanese concert. Perhaps these are more a reflection of today's asian concert experience. As you can clearly see, not only is the crowd totally into it, but the performers have an incredible amount of energy and STAGE PRESENCE. Even the Asian dude is all over the place!

Check these clips out, they're simply amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvftBeQJeMY (rocker)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0swL7jihXd4 (power ballad...?)

After seeing this, I cannot buy the argument that Arnel lacks stage presence due to his respect for the asian culture, since they are more reserved and don't show their excitement for the music like the westerners do. Just doesn't hold water to me. (Tak does remind me of NS, though... And Jack is a beast!!!)

What do you guys think?

[chf34jmac]

Donna that's like you trying to say size doesn't matter and keep a straight face. c'mon now

[donnaplease]

Donna that's like you trying to say size doesn't matter and keep a straight face. c'mon now

Silly boy...

[AR]

It has nothing to do with being Asian. An Asian with stage presence and lack of accent can certainly front an American rock band.

Arnel is a little shrimp karoake singer who will not be able to relate to a crowd and can't pronounce the words. Point blank.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Wait to see what he can do in a few months time.

[Rick]

I've recently been thinking about this debate. It's been said here that Arnel's lack of stage presence has to do with the fact that the Asian culture is different than the western culture in that they don't 'get into' the music like we do here. The clips of the Perry-era Journey in Japan have been referenced as something to relate to. At first, I thought, "yeah, that makes sense".

A few days ago, however, I ran across these YouTube clips from a japanese concert. Perhaps these are more a reflection of today's asian concert experience. As you can clearly see, not only is the crowd totally into it, but the performers have an incredible amount of energy and STAGE PRESENCE. Even the Asian dude is all over the place!

Check these clips out, they're simply amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvftBeQJeMY (rocker)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0swL7jihXd4 (power ballad...?)

After seeing this, I cannot buy the argument that Arnel lacks stage presence due to his respect for the asian culture, since they are more reserved and don't show their excitement for the music like the westerners do. Just doesn't hold water to me. (Tak does remind me of NS, though... And Jack is a beast!!!)

What do you guys think?

I'm going to hold my tongue until I see what he can do for myself. There's no reason to make any decisions or form any opinions until we see it for ourselves. I don't think Journey is going to change their minds on the deal, so all we can do is wait and see. Should be interesting.

[Shadowsong]

Come on..
Arnel's not kwazimoto.

How many of us fell in love with Steve Perry as the voice without even seeing him.

No stage presence needed on the radio, cd or even the stage.

When I saw Journey in 84
Steve Perry was a red dot in the distance..
I couldn't even see him.

Arnel is a decent looking guy
No 4 eyes on his forhead & no serpents writhing in his hair ( though that could be interesting)

They're an established band
with established hits.
Voice is the ultimate criteria in this situation.

Anyway like it or not
He's the new Journey Man...

So we'll have to wait & see

[donnaplease]

You're not getting my point. My point really isn't about Arnel. Is about the apologists who make excuses for his lack of stage presence. They gave the excuse that it was because of the asian culture. I didn't know enough about it then to dispute it, especially in light of the clips of Journey with SP in Japan that I've seen. I thought it was perhaps a plausible argument. However, SP performed with Journey in Japan over 20 years ago, and so obviously things have changed there, looking at the TMG clips. The musicians and the audience were definitely enjoying themselves tremendously.

Can Arnel pull it off? IDK. Remains to be seen. They've got a LOT of work to do.

[donnaplease]

Come on..
Arnel's not kwazimoto.

How many of us fell in love with Steve Perry as the voice without even seeing him.

No stage presence needed on the radio, cd or even the stage.

When I saw Journey in 84
Steve Perry was a red dot in the distance..
I couldn't even see him.

Arnel is a decent looking guy
No 4 eyes on his forhead & no serpents writhing in his hair ( though that could be interesting)

They're an established band
with established hits.
Voice is the ultimate criteria in this situation.

Anyway like it or not
He's the new Journey Man...

So we'll have to wait & see

Very good points. However, while Journey is an established band with established hits, Arnel is not established at this point. He's behind the 8-ball, and he's got to wow the audience in order to be accepted.

But you're right, we'll have to wait and see.

[AR]

It's going to tank - especially in the states, and I'm going to laugh at anyone willing to give it a chance.

[ttango1]

But it applies. Stop and think for a bit and maybe investigate. Perhaps you can talk to someone who has actually been at an event in the Philippines for a relevant take instead of a biased generalization from some 30 videos. There are times when they rock out like at an Arena event but in that setting, it's commonplace to see the crowd enjoy from a distance.

The Zoo videos show Arnel working with the crowd that he has. Since he is in Manila at the Hard Rock, or at Brad's Bistro in Olongapo or any other event hall in the Philippines, he will speak "TAGLISH" because that is what the patrons there will do. He interacted with them the same way. He'll say something in Tagalog(Philippines national language) and then mix it with english. Same way some latin performers do it with Spanish and english. (spanglish) So that explains the accent overtones right away. My in-laws have contrasting styles. One speaks perfect english, the other speaks taglish-good english but with a pronounced accent. Arnel is working with a diction coach, that's a good thing and he will improve RAPIDLY.

AS for the stage presence thing, thinking back to "those crazy nights I do remember in my youth"...Steve Perry wasn't David Lee Roth, in terms of stage presence, with the spinning back kicks or anything. It's the voice that was the main attraction. We were all for a time,"Raised on Radio" when Music Television wasn't a norm and all that mattered was the music, and it's what will make or break them today.

That's all.

Besides, what you see in Japan doesn't necessarily mean that is the norm for Asia. You can't generalize that. For instance, there are many countries on the Asian continent that follow religions that have their foundation in Asia like Buddhism and Shinto or Sikh or a myriad of others. Indonesia is largely muslim, the Philippines is largely catholic. So again, what flies in Japan doesn't necessarily fly in the Philippines.

Investigate, and then make an informed decision.

I COULD BE WRONG, BUT WHAT IF I'M RIGHT?

[larryfromnextdoor]

donna.. i can fix that avatar for you!..

[Shadowsong]

What's with the huge avatar?
It takes up half the screen...

Some things can be tooooo big...

[donnaplease]

But it applies. Stop and think for a bit and maybe investigate. Perhaps you can talk to someone who has actually been at an event in the Philippines for a relevant take instead of a biased generalization from some 30 videos. There are times when they rock out like at an Arena event but in that setting, it's commonplace to see the crowd enjoy from a distance.

The Zoo videos show Arnel working with the crowd that he has. Since he is in Manila at the Hard Rock, or at Brad's Bistro in Olongapo or any other event hall in the Philippines, he will speak "TAGLISH" because that is what the patrons there will do. He interacted with them the same way. He'll say something in Tagalog(Philippines national language) and then mix it with english. Same way some latin performers do it with Spanish and english. (spanglish) So that explains the accent overtones right away. My in-laws have contrasting styles. One speaks perfect english, the other speaks taglish-good english but with a pronounced accent. Arnel is working with a diction coach, that's a good thing and he will improve RAPIDLY.

AS for the stage presence thing, thinking back to "those crazy nights I do remember in my youth"...Steve Perry wasn't David Lee Roth, in terms of stage presence, with the spinning back kicks or anything. It's the voice that was the main attraction. We were all for a time,"Raised on Radio" when Music Television wasn't a norm and all that mattered was the music, and it's what will make or break them today.

That's all.

Besides, what you see in Japan doesn't necessarily mean that is the norm for Asia. You can't generalize that. For instance, there are many countries on the Asian continent that follow religions that have their foundation in Asia like Buddhism and Shinto or Sikh or a myriad of others. Indonesia is largely muslim, the Philippines is largely catholic. So again, what flies in Japan doesn't necessarily fly in the Philippines.

Investigate, and then make an informed decision.

I COULD BE WRONG, BUT WHAT IF I'M RIGHT?

Hi Susie.

[donnaplease]

donna.. i can fix that avatar for you!..

I know, I know... sorry.

I guess we know who I'm not. No computer tricks for me...

[donnaplease]

What's with the huge avatar?
It takes up half the screen...

Some things can be tooooo big...

I was just really feeling festive...

[ttango1]

Guess again... if Suzie had balls and killer wife named Jojo, then her name would be Tod living in San Diego, but hey, if you can't handle what is possibly a viable answer to your "JAPAN THEORY" then I can't help you.

I guess since we live in North America than what flies in Canada flies in the US as well. I'll remember that the next time I do business in Montreal where the principal language spoken is FRENCH...EH!

Oh and since you posed the question and I gave you an answer, I think saying more than, Hi Suzie, is within your capability. You bothered to format an opinion and then post it, so I felt that what you said warranted an opinion. Now, do you have anything better than ...HI SUZIE?

If not, I'd be disappointed. Unless of course you just don't understand anthropological etic and emic views. In which case, I suggest you look them up.

[Panther]

Guess again... if Suzie had balls and killer wife named Jojo, then her name would be Tod living in San Diego, but hey, if you can't handle what is possibly a viable answer to your "JAPAN THEORY" then I can't help you.

I guess since we live in North America than what flies in Canada flies in the US as well. I'll remember that the next time I do business in Montreal where the principal language spoken is FRENCH...EH!

Oh and since you posed the question and I gave you an answer, I think saying more than, Hi Suzie, is within your capability. You bothered to format an opinion and then post it, so I felt that what you said warranted an opinion. Now, do you have anything better than ...HI SUZIE?

If not, I'd be disappointed. Unless of course you just don't understand anthropological etic and emic views. In which case, I suggest you look them up.

Instead of whippin out yer holier-than-thou schpeal, whip out the vids from areas other than Japan to enlighten us, of the unwashed masses. That seems to be the problem inherent in this debate. There are plenty with questions and then there are the few saying "we've seen with our own eyes." Your having seen with your own eyes does aboslutely NOTHING for those here with questions regarding the stage presence of Arnel. We cannot SEE what you have seen, through your (or anyone else's for that matter) words alone.
I understand what Donna is saying here, as I was told the same thing when I asked a question some time ago regarding the Journey tube vids done in Japan. To this day I don't understand the "sitting in silence" at a concert (that is just outside the realm of possibility for me). However, it was explained to me that they do so because they are respecting the music. Either way, it did make for a MUCH different concert event for Journey up on that stage. If the crowd is not into it, physically, I would imagine it is difficult for the band to get energized. Then again, I'm a nobody and know nothing.

And AR... go ahead and laugh at me. I've a funny feeling, just as they did with Mr. A, they'll head to my little backwater area for a testmarket on this new singer. I'm not saying I'll buy a ticket, but I might just go hang out at the local firestation and give it a listen to see what I think.

[donnaplease]

Guess again... if Suzie had balls and killer wife named Jojo, then her name would be Tod living in San Diego, but hey, if you can't handle what is possibly a viable answer to your "JAPAN THEORY" then I can't help you.

I guess since we live in North America than what flies in Canada flies in the US as well. I'll remember that the next time I do business in Montreal where the principal language spoken is FRENCH...EH!

Oh and since you posed the question and I gave you an answer, I think saying more than, Hi Suzie, is within your capability. You bothered to format an opinion and then post it, so I felt that what you said warranted an opinion. Now, do you have anything better than ...HI SUZIE?

If not, I'd be disappointed. Unless of course you just don't understand anthropological etic and emic views. In which case, I suggest you look them up.

I don't have a "Japan Theory". I have an "apologist theory". And it seems you're proving it quite well. First it's "listen to the YouTubes, they're great!". Then when folks listen to them, and aren't impressed, it's "aww, you can't judge by them, they're not that good". So as I'm pondering the stage presence issue, I recall Susie and others stating that the reason that Arnel displays no stage presence is that "oh, in Asia the fans don't show a reaction to the performance, because of their cultural differences". THEY used the Journey in Japan clips as a reference point. But once again, when called on the discrepancies, we get the classic flip-flopping... "Oh, you can't judge by Japan, cause Japan isn't the Phillipines". Typical.

Usually I find that those who throw out the big words trying to convince folks of their intelligence and worth are those that are the most ignorant. If you don't want to be called "susie" you should probably consider your "I could be wrong, but what if I'm right" attitude.

[Rockindeano]

Donna, I have to disagree with you here and disagree completely. I know a lot of you Annexians will no doubt hate my fat ass, but here goes.

If I were betting Arnel falls flat here due to lack of stage presence, I wouldn't like my chances. I need to explain myself, yes.

Look, he has a tremendous voice. It's obvious he has the best voice Journey could have chosen. The videos on Youtube were him in a lounge setting, or a coffee house. There is really no reason for him to be going Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen in front of 5 people on a stage that is 9 feet long.

Donna, I have over a dozen Journey videos of Perry in Japan, and they are doing DSB, and the crowd is entirely sitting down, politely. I have BA and other bands, performing songs and it is true, the Japanese audiences are very passive. You have three levels of crowds, starting with the lower spectrum:

Japan- Polite, reserved, quiet. Why do you think Journey always went there first to start a tour? They auditioned stuff and worked out there problems in Japan first.

American/Canadian- Middle of the road. Sometimes lame, sometimes energetic.

European- Top of the Hill. Always pumped up, bobbing, bouncing and swaying. Incredible.


Again, not to piss any of my Annexian friends off, but I really believe Arnel will surprise here in the States. Please don't hate me Ed, or Strangegrey, but he will adjust. Hell, he will probably feel free when he gets on a real stage. I know Jeff felt great knowing he had a real stage to perform on.

This does not say I am forgiving Journey people. I just have absolutely no reason to hate AP.

Ok, let me have it.

[Rick]

Donna, I have to disagree with you here and disagree completely. I know a lot of you Annexians will no doubt hate my fat ass, but here goes.

If I were betting Arnel falls flat here dude to lack of stage presence, I wouldn't like my chances. I need to explain myself, yes.

Look, he has a tremendous voice. It's obvious he has the best voice Journey could have chosen. The videos on Youtube were him in a lounge setting, or a coffee house. There is really no reason for him to be going Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen in front of 5 people on a stage that is 9 feet long.

Donna, I have over a dozen Journey videos of Perry in Japan, and they are doing DSB, and the crowd is entirely sitting down, politely. I have BA and other bands, performing songs and it is true, the Japanese audiences are very passive. You have three levels of crowds, starting with the lower spectrum:

Japan- Polite, reserved, quiet. Why do you think Journey always went there first to start a tour? They auditioned stuff and worked out there problems in Japan first.

American/Canadian- Middle of the road. Sometimes lame, sometimes energetic.

European- Top of the Hill. Always pumped up, bobbing, bouncing and swaying. Incredible.


Again, not to piss any of my Annexian friends off, but I really believe Arnel will surprise here in the States. Please don't hate me Ed, or Strangegrey, but he will adjust. Hell, he will probably feel free when he gets on a real stage. I know Jeff felt great knowing he had a real stage to perform on.

This does not say I am forgiving Journey people. I just have absolutely no reason to hate AP.

Ok, let me have it.

I'm not the type of person to hate someone I don't know. So I can't just be mad at or hate Arnel because Journey picked him over Jeremey or Jeff or Hugo. I'll continue to hold my tongue until I see for myself if he's a fit. My tongue's getting sore though.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Donna, I have to disagree with you here and disagree completely. I know a lot of you Annexians will no doubt hate my fat ass, but here goes.

If I were betting Arnel falls flat here due to lack of stage presence, I wouldn't like my chances. I need to explain myself, yes.

Look, he has a tremendous voice. It's obvious he has the best voice Journey could have chosen. The videos on Youtube were him in a lounge setting, or a coffee house. There is really no reason for him to be going Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen in front of 5 people on a stage that is 9 feet long.

Donna, I have over a dozen Journey videos of Perry in Japan, and they are doing DSB, and the crowd is entirely sitting down, politely. I have BA and other bands, performing songs and it is true, the Japanese audiences are very passive. You have three levels of crowds, starting with the lower spectrum:

Japan- Polite, reserved, quiet. Why do you think Journey always went there first to start a tour? They auditioned stuff and worked out there problems in Japan first.

American/Canadian- Middle of the road. Sometimes lame, sometimes energetic.

European- Top of the Hill. Always pumped up, bobbing, bouncing and swaying. Incredible.


Again, not to piss any of my Annexian friends off, but I really believe Arnel will surprise here in the States. Please don't hate me Ed, or Strangegrey, but he will adjust. Hell, he will probably feel free when he gets on a real stage. I know Jeff felt great knowing he had a real stage to perform on.

This does not say I am forgiving Journey people. I just have absolutely no reason to hate AP.

Ok, let me have it.

without trying to suck up to Dean i completly agree. And in my opinion people who dont think Arnel will make it are having the opinions misted because of the JSS situation still vivid in their minds.

[donnaplease]

Donna, I have to disagree with you here and disagree completely. I know a lot of you Annexians will no doubt hate my fat ass, but here goes.

If I were betting Arnel falls flat here dude to lack of stage presence, I wouldn't like my chances. I need to explain myself, yes.

Look, he has a tremendous voice. It's obvious he has the best voice Journey could have chosen. The videos on Youtube were him in a lounge setting, or a coffee house. There is really no reason for him to be going Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen in front of 5 people on a stage that is 9 feet long.

Donna, I have over a dozen Journey videos of Perry in Japan, and they are doing DSB, and the crowd is entirely sitting down, politely. I have BA and other bands, performing songs and it is true, the Japanese audiences are very passive. You have three levels of crowds, starting with the lower spectrum:

Japan- Polite, reserved, quiet. Why do you think Journey always went there first to start a tour? They auditioned stuff and worked out there problems in Japan first.

American/Canadian- Middle of the road. Sometimes lame, sometimes energetic.

European- Top of the Hill. Always pumped up, bobbing, bouncing and swaying. Incredible.


Again, not to piss any of my Annexian friends off, but I really believe Arnel will surprise here in the States. Please don't hate me Ed, or Strangegrey, but he will adjust. Hell, he will probably feel free when he gets on a real stage. I know Jeff felt great knowing he had a real stage to perform on.

This does not say I am forgiving Journey people. I just have absolutely no reason to hate AP.

Ok, let me have it.

Dean, I have no problem with anything you said. Did you watch the TMG videos? That is today's Japan, not Japan from 20 years ago. IDK much about Japan or other parts of Asia, but I can imagine that things have changed somewhat in those 20 years. Again, I'm not arguing the guy's voice. It's a good voice. He might adjust, and many of us here will be eating a lot of crow. Too early to say at this point IMO.

I get really frustrated with the cheerleading and flip-flopping on the guy's talent. They think they are doing something positive for him, when in reality all it does is turn off those people who might otherwise be willing to give the dude a chance.

[donnaplease]

without trying to suck up to Dean i completly agree. And in my opinion people who dont think Arnel will make it are having the opinions misted because of the JSS situation still vivid in their minds.

I'm not one of those. I hate, Hate, HATE what happened to Jeff, but I have been roasted here in the past for wishing good things for Jeremey when he was given an opportunity to audition. I realize that as f*cked up as it is, what happened to Jeff was not because of Arnel, or Jeremey, or any other prospective singer.

I've been called racist, stupid, and any other number of things because I don't think he's right for Journey. My opinion is just that, though... MINE. I try not to force my opinion on others, I just share it. I thought that's what this place was for.

[Rockindeano]

I get really frustrated with the cheerleading and flip-flopping on the guy's talent. They think they are doing something positive for him, when in reality all it does is turn off those people who might otherwise be willing to give the dude a chance.

Absolutely. I hate that shit more than you do. That is a moot point. Every one here with a brain knows that fuckin Susie is behind this. She is such a joke these days, it isn't worth qualifying, however.....

You talk about eating crow...the way I see it, is why even guess or predict what is going to happen? I like Rick's POV; he has the wait and see attitude. There is no reason to hammer him, IMO. What's there to gain? To me, I will despise Journey forever, for what they did and who they fucked over, but; I have to say, I can't hate Arnel. He did nothing wrong...he accepted a job, he is good, I wish him well. All I am saying is AP will do just fine if I had to go on record for a prediction.

Donna, I watched your videos. They are irrelevant to AP and Journey. If you are good enough, the crowd will like you.

[donnaplease]

If you are good enough, the crowd will like you.

And that's it in a nutshell, isn't it?

p.s. EM is kinda cute, huh? I bet Deb & Cyndy would agree...

[ttango1]

Anyways, I can't provide any videos of Filipinos rockin the crowd in the PI (Philippine Islands) but I give you Beyonce' in Manila, but again, in an Arena setting, it's way different then in a small club setting. Filipinos show a lot of restraint so as to give a performer "space" it's not uncommon. But afterwards, they gleefully show their approval, if the performance warrants one.

See they can get into the performance-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NRMSB7yEwqQ&feature=related


I wish you a Happy New Year and I wish you all no ill-will. I guess it's hard to take a viewpoint without stepping on some toes.

I like the wait and see approach. There are many sides to this puzzle, and as a fan of Journey...the only part I want solved is the music because ultimately, that what draws us all.

FYI ETIC means that it's culturally non-specific

FYI EMIC means specific to one culture - it's importance is that you have to be part of that culture to get a full understanding of it. In this case, if one isn't Filipino, they may seek to understand but they may never get it. They could come close but it can't be done because again, it's culture-specific.

[Perrydise]

[Arnelian]

Donna,

Concert venue is much different from a club venue in Arnel's country. The attached video is BAMBOO he has a strong followers. notice that in the club, people are all sitted down all the way to the front. The audience just stare at the performer with hardly any engaging participation. the performer (BAMBOO) sort of like wandering around the stage at times--just like you see Arnel in youtube videos. This is typical of the PHilippine club scenes. And this type of set-sup is found in every corner. So people are used to listening to bands during dinner or during drinking hours.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cnXRHhZoFqA&feature=related




NOW WATCH HIM TURN THE FAN ON WHEN NOT IN THAT ENVIRONMENT:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YBnhfg1i-Ig


I am not saying that Arnel is going to be spectacular on stage. However, the venue does affect performance. and yes there is a language barrier and that may be a factor. But I think, he is going to have to overcome that if he wants to stay longer. And all i am saying is that, his fans are confident he can pull it off.

[squirt1]

Before I go to spend $40-80 I have to be excited to see the show. I went to see Jeff and would have went again. I went to Augeri once and that was enough. I won't go now. If Jeff or Perry did a show, I'd be there.