OT--Could Obama Be The First Black President?

[Rip Rokken]

Basically, their reason for not including Ron Paul in the debates is because they consider him a "fringe candidate", but their argument doesn't really hold up when they include Fred Thompson, who has less money.

This is why the system is corrupt. We will never have a candidate with a chance to win who is actually for the people. Only candidates who can raise tons of dough and paying it back in various forms once they are elected.

He's got the money... it's the corrupt "paying it back" part -- the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" -- that poses a problem. I haven't actually dug that deep into his candidacy, but what my client was telling me yesterday was interesting. Details are sketchy, but basically, this somehow started as a celebration by some group of a historical (British?) figure that really stuck it to the corrupt system, and they decided to find a candidate who could do just that. In a short amount of time, they'd raised $5 mil and offered it to Ron Paul's campaign if he'd run. When does that ever happen? Someone feel free to clarify the details of this, but it does show that the people do want someone different, that's for sure.

Most of the serious problems our country has (Social Security, deficit, immigration policy, election reform) have been allowed to blossom out of control so they can be used as wedge issues in campaigns. They are all solvable with common sense and a good resolve, but the system is so corrupt that finding a person willing to take it on as President, and hoping that he'll have a willing legislature seems slim to none.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Taht's right John. And in the TV era, I believe the tallest candidate has always won , with the lone exception of 2004

Thank heavens for that.

What possible good has come out of things unfolding the way they have?
This reduction in bloodshed in Iraq is merely the calm before more storms to come.
Yet again we have aligned ourselves with tribal militias to lend a helping hand..yeh, that won’t come back to bite us in the ass.

Try as you may, there is no silver lining to this cespool.

[Rip Rokken]

I don't get that. Considering the enemy’s degrading treatment of women, if anything, a female President would only show our defiance to their envisioned medieval caliphate society. I just don't think Hillary or Condi should be that woman.

My friend didn't think that type of defiance would work -- thought it would only escalate the situation. I'd actually consider voting for Condi if she ran. There you have your first woman president and your first black president. She's always had my respect, and she's also declined to be a photo op for the Bush administration. I've read she's been asked before to do or say certain things that would up the admin's image w/minorities, and has refused. THAT, I respect.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He's got the money... it's the corrupt "paying it back" part -- the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" -- that poses a problem. I haven't actually dug that deep into his candidacy, but what my client was telling me yesterday was interesting. Details are sketchy, but basically, this somehow started as a celebration by some group of a historical (British?) figure that really stuck it to the corrupt system, and they decided to find a candidate who could do just that. In a short amount of time, they'd raised $5 mil and offered it to Ron Paul's campaign if he'd run. When does that ever happen? Someone feel free to clarify the details of this, but it does show that the people do want someone different, that's for sure.

Ron Paul wasn't recruited by anyone.
He even ran once before on the Libertarian ticket.
The Guy Fawkes day event which you are alluding to was thrown in support of Paul’s candidacy and broke historical fundraising records.
It has no connection to his campaign. Just like-minded supporters uniting to rake some coin for their candidate of choice.
And they just did it again a few weeks ago.

[conversationpc]

What possible good has come out of things unfolding the way they have?
This reduction in bloodshed in Iraq is merely the calm before more storms to come.
Yet again we have aligned ourselves with tribal militias to lend a helping hand..yeh, that won’t come back to bite us in the ass.

Try as you may, there is no silver lining to this cespool.

Do you seriously think we'd be in ANY better shape with Keystone Cops Kerry running things? Really?

[hoagiepete]

Do you really think she could be president? So many people hate her, and all the rednecks in the south that are paranoid about losing there guns would never vote for her ever. Id vote for her because of her old man. he was cool. Gas was a buck twenty five a gallon, and my business was boomin when he was Pres.

...because of the economic policies set in place in the term prior to him.

[conversationpc]

Do you really think she could be president? So many people hate her, and all the rednecks in the south that are paranoid about losing there guns would never vote for her ever. Id vote for her because of her old man. he was cool. Gas was a buck twenty five a gallon, and my business was boomin when he was Pres.

...because of the economic policies set in place in the term prior to him.

Well, that's probably no thanks to Bush Sr. I don't think anything he did had any great effect on the economy.

[Voyager]

Of course Ted Kennedy's been in the Senate forever and he still doesn't have a clue

I'm not exactly sure what "he still doesn't have a clue" means. As someone who was born and raised in Massachusetts, I can tell you that Ted Kennedy, in spite of all of his personal problems over the years, is considered to be a SUPERB senator. I also suspect that history will view him as one of the best senators ever, in terms of significant legislation he has sponsored, over the years.

That may be the case in Massachusetts, but everywhere else he is known as drunken womanizer who embraces extreme liberal politics. That's not my opinion about him - that's just how most everyone outside of Massachusetts views Teddy.

Stuff like this doesn't help his reputation any:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos

[Rip Rokken]

Ron Paul wasn't recruited by anyone.
He even ran once before on the Libertarian ticket.
The Guy Fawkes day event which you are alluding to was thrown in support of Paul’s candidacy and broke historical fundraising records.
It has no connection to his campaign. Just like-minded supporters uniting to rake some coin for their candidate of choice.
And they just did it again a few weeks ago.

Ok, cool. Thanks for the clarification. Also didn't realize it was Guy Fawkes. When I think of him it reminds me of "V For Vendetta"!

[Rockindeano]

Do you seriously think we'd be in ANY better shape with Keystone Cops Kerry running things? Really?

No. This bullshit war Bush and the GOP started was in motion asap after Bush's "win." This entire scam was choreograpghed in a wise manner of time. Kerry would have inherited a complete mess. There is a reason Hillary didn't run in 04 you know. She didn't want to spend her presidency cleaning up this crap caused by a moron with an evil agenda.

[Rockindeano]

As it currently stands, I would vote Huckabee over Obama. At least Huckabee bolsters his folksy down-on-the-farm charm with populist ideas. What exactly does Obama stand for besides cliched garbage like "hope" and "optimism"?
Obama has been nothing but empty rhetoric since he first introduced himself into the national consciousness at the '04 Dem convention. He's a piece of shit. Actually, I think the top three Democratic candidates are uniformly horrible.

Mike Huckabee is a dream for the Dems. He has no shot. He may be viable in the Bible belt states but is toast everywhere else. I like the guy, but this is what is comes down to. Huckabee somehow gets the nomination(which I definitely do not see happening), it will be a religious election: Evangelicals versus the normals.

I stand firmly entrenched and say without a doubt, Hillary will be the next president and I believe, no, I know, they want Richardson as VP(Beaner vote). Hillary is up so big in the big states coming up. TNC was semi right; Obama is a bit empty, but he does inspire and nothing wrong with advocating hope. He means well, but is half as smart as Hillary.

[Enigma869]

That may be the case in Massachusetts, but everywhere else he is known as drunken womanizer who embraces extreme liberal politics. That's not my opinion about him - that's just how most everyone outside of Massachusetts views Teddy.

Stuff like this doesn't help his reputation any:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos

Voyager...

I don't dispute ANY of Ted Kennedy's warts! The reality is that they are all, VERY well earned! This guy has done more dopey things over the years, than anyone I've ever seen. That said, I think the "womanizer" thing is a bit overblown, in 2008. I'm pretty sure that he's been married to his current wife for well over 10 years, and I suspect that if was still drinking, his liver would have already given out on him!

As far as the whole "extreme liberal politics"...so what! Massachusetts is a VERY liberal state, so he fits in quite well! After living in the south, I can honestly tell you that I'd MUCH rather be from a state who allows gay people to get legally married, and respects diversity, than to be from a state that condemns people because they might be non-caucasian, non-heterosexual, or non-protestant...and for the record, I happen to be disgustingly heterosexual, protestant, and caucasian!


John from Boston

[Rockindeano]

As far as the whole "extreme liberal politics"...so what! Massachusetts is a VERY liberal state, so he fits in quite well! After living in the south, I can honestly tell you that I'd MUCH rather be from a state who allows gay people to get legally married, and respects diversity, than to be from a state that condemns people because they might be non-caucasian, non-heterosexual, or non-protestant...and for the record, I happen to be disgustingly heterosexual, protestant, and caucasian!

John from Boston

I call that being educated.

[Big J]

I really, really don't care for Hillary, though I know it aint the end of the world if she winds up President.

Love Bill though. Brilliant politician, and if it were him running, I'd vote for him again. If she gets elected, what I plan to do on election night is turn the sound down on the TV, focus on him in the celebration, and smile and pretend for the next 8 years that he's president, not her.

[Big J]

Oh, and in answer to the thread topic, could he? He will, sooner or later. I don't think there's any question that he will one day, be President. And that's a good thing.

[Saint John]

Neal Schon will grow a foot before Obama is elected president.

[Karma]

Arkanasas: Clearly you do not know the esteemed senator from Massachusetts unless that was a typo. He would NEVER wait until 7:20pm to make a toast.

Obama father's is from Africa and mother is from the US. He was born in Hawaii. Why make a race an issue? Make the vision and the plan the issue. I find him to be intelligent, articulate, honest and answers the question asked. I support his vision and hope for this country. I have had the opportunity and pleasure to spend some time with him and with Michelle Obama discussing his plan. They were able to answer each question fully. I find his honesty in answering questions refreshing. Obama was not born to wealth, he has worked in social services and taught the Constitution. He understands and respects the Constitution. He does not profess to be perfect in fact states he is not perfect and will not be a perfect president.

Question: Now, when exactly did Congress declare war on Iraq? This body is the only one who can declare war. And where exactly are those weapons of mass destruction and I am not referring to the Bush family.

[wildone]

That may be the case in Massachusetts, but everywhere else he is known as drunken womanizer who embraces extreme liberal politics. That's not my opinion about him - that's just how most everyone outside of Massachusetts views Teddy.

Stuff like this doesn't help his reputation any:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos

Voyager...

I don't dispute ANY of Ted Kennedy's warts! The reality is that they are all, VERY well earned! This guy has done more dopey things over the years, than anyone I've ever seen. That said, I think the "womanizer" thing is a bit overblown, in 2008. I'm pretty sure that he's been married to his current wife for well over 10 years, and I suspect that if was still drinking, his liver would have already given out on him!

As far as the whole "extreme liberal politics"...so what! Massachusetts is a VERY liberal state, so he fits in quite well! After living in the south, I can honestly tell you that I'd MUCH rather be from a state who allows gay people to get legally married, and respects diversity, than to be from a state that condemns people because they might be non-caucasian, non-heterosexual, or non-protestant...and for the record, I happen to be disgustingly heterosexual, protestant, and caucasian!


John from Boston

spank that ass John !!!!nice post!!

[Voyager]

As much as I agree with Ted's politics, he is to the Democrats what Newt Gingrich is to the Republicans.

[Monker]

One thing is clear, or two things. Iowa had over twice the turnout for Democrats which means Iowa is blue and proably other swing states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. I see Nevada going blue and maybe Colorado too. Wouldn't be shocked if Florida went blue and even Virginia.

I would not gaurantee this. If Hillary is nominated, and Huckabee or McCain is the Republican, I would say all of those states are in play...and Iowa would stay Republican. Remember, twice the number of people showed up to caucus, but that is not the total number who will actually vote in November.

The vote here was against the status quo, for something new. Clinton is NOT something new...and in general, people here don't particularly care for her....they have to be convinced to vote for her. So far, she has not done a very good job of doing that.

[Rockindeano]

One thing is clear, or two things. Iowa had over twice the turnout for Democrats which means Iowa is blue and proably other swing states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. I see Nevada going blue and maybe Colorado too. Wouldn't be shocked if Florida went blue and even Virginia.

I would not gaurantee this. If Hillary is nominated, and Huckabee or McCain is the Republican, I would say all of those states are in play...and Iowa would stay Republican. Remember, twice the number of people showed up to caucus, but that is not the total number who will actually vote in November.

The vote here was against the status quo, for something new. Clinton is NOT something new...and in general, people here don't particularly care for her....they have to be convinced to vote for her. So far, she has not done a very good job of doing that.

Monker, the Dems had 250,000 vote in the caucus vs 90,000 for the GOP, and, remember, Paul had a couple thousand fly in for same day registration and to vote for Paul. They can't do that in the general election.

Hillary is up by 25 -30 points in upcoming states, FL, NJ, MI, CA, NV. And ahead by 6 in NH. I still very much like her chances.

[Rockindeano]

The vote here was against the status quo, for something new.

I love Romney today. "We DO need change. In Washington, but not the White House." I did NOT make that up.

I tell you, they are a bunch of retards on the GOP side. Forget I am a Dem for a minute. Between Hickabee, Romney and Guliani, they are cumulative braindead Tards.

[Monker]

Monker, the Dems had 250,000 vote in the caucus vs 90,000 for the GOP, and, remember, Paul had a couple thousand fly in for same day registration and to vote for Paul. They can't do that in the general election.

And, that represents less then half of the people who will vote in the general election.

Hillary did not bring those new people in, Obama did. If she brought them in, she certainly did not get many of the votes. IMO, if she is on the ticket those votes go up for grabs...because she is NOT as well liked here in Iowa as you seem to think. If they go up for grabs and the Republicans have Huckabe (who sounds more like Edwards then a traditional Republican), or the rebelious McCain...then the Democrats could very easily lose this state.

Hillary is up by 25 -30 points in upcoming states, FL, NJ, MI, CA, NV. And ahead by 6 in NH. I still very much like her chances.

And, how long ago was it that she was up huge in Iowa? People are JUST STARTING to pay attention. Who is all over the news? Obama...and Clinton coming in third. Eary polls like this are pretty meaningless. All of those numbers are going to close - big time...especialy if she loses NH. It's a snowball effect. It's a two way race with Obama and Clinton, with Edwards trying to fill a spoiler role.

[Monker]

The vote here was against the status quo, for something new.

I love Romney today. "We DO need change. In Washington, but not the White House." I did NOT make that up.

I tell you, they are a bunch of retards on the GOP side. Forget I am a Dem for a minute. Between Hickabee, Romney and Guliani, they are cumulative braindead Tards.

As W proves, you can be a retard and still win the election...and even be reelected.

Huckabee has appeal because he is a social conservative with a populist agenda. It's not the traditional religious conservative bullshit that comes out of people like Pat Robertson. When independents listen to him, they can connect to him - despite his evangelical background, and some of his goofy remarks. That's why he won here, and that people are sick of the negative campaigns...which hurt Romney - and Clinton. When I listened to his victory speach I thought he could have been listening to Edward's speach earlier...it had some of the same "lift up those in need" type of overtones.

When Clinton goes negative - and I believe she will. She's finished. I think people are sick of the swift boat ads, or the Willie Horton type ads. That's not going to fly this time. There are too many real world problems that need solutions to ask voters to listen to her people imply that Obama may have been a drug dealer or joke about him writing about being President in kindegarten.

If she can not find another way to make those points, other then old school politics, then she is going to lose. I think she is struggling big time to find a way to define Obama, instead of worrying about defining herself as something other then Bill Clinton's wife...which is not always a good thing in the first place.

[Enigma869]

As W proves, you can be a retard and still win the election...and even be reelected.

Tough to argue with that sentiment. W. will forever be the biggest JACKASS I've ever seen as a president! Let's hope that IQ and judgement matter a bit more, when we select our next president! I also agree with your assessment of Hillary. She is just Bill's wife, and that is THE ONLY reason she is even being discussed as a "viable" candidate! She talks about Obama's lack of experience, and yet the only real difference between their experience is her being married to a president! Sure, she's been a senator longer, in a state she has zero connection to, but that's not enough for me! This country needs another Bill Clinton (yes, even if it means he can't keep his dong in his drawers), not Hillary!


John from Boston

[Rip Rokken]

Tough to argue with that sentiment. W. will forever be the biggest JACKASS I've ever seen as a president! Let's hope that IQ and judgement matter a bit more, when we select our next president!

I try to call it fairly, and I can't attribute a huge number of great decisions to George W. Bush. Also think his administration surely has had the "bunker mentality" that Huckabee mentioned (and later apologized for). Yes, he certainly hasn't used the best judgment, but stupid, he is not. I remember when the story broke during the last election that Bush's military IQ was reportedly higher than Kerry's, and someone asked Kerry about it. I saw the video clip of it on the news at the time, and here is a synopsis of that exchange:

"someone told Kerry that per the military IQ test,GW Bush actually scored slightly higher than Kerry in IQ. On-camera, Kerry just smiled and said "Well, good for him." Off-camera, Kerry said, "I HAD to have been out drinking the night before that test." I'm sure Kerry can't believe he lost to this guy."

Below are comments from http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/ar ... 10940.html

In response, James Joyner, a conservative whose intellect I respect, suggested that I was confused.

"The problem here is confusing verbal skill and intelligence. It’s probably true that most people who are glib and able to think quickly on their feet are bright. Plenty of highly intelligent people, though, lack that facility.

That Bush has above average IQ is well documented. His SAT score of 1206 put him well above the 90th percentile and ahead of his 2004 rival John Kerry (although behind 2000 opponent Al Gore). He graduated from Yale. Made it through flight school. Got his MBA from Harvard. Has a legendary memory for personal details and baseball stats. He’s not, by any means, a dumb guy.

What he seems to lack is a strong intellectual curiosity. He lacks both a wonk’s passion for policy details and an ideologue’s passion for debating ideas. He’s also too resistant, for my taste anyway, to ideas that challenge his preconceptions."

So sure, he's by far not been the best president of our times, and has made tons of gaffes and mistakes. I always keep in mind that he had things thrown at him (like 9/11) that were challenges no other recent president has had to face, and for the immediate time afterward, his leadership really held the nation together. But stupid? No, that's a myth. The guy's comments above say it best.

[conversationpc]

So sure, he's by far not been the best president of our times, and has made tons of gaffes and mistakes. I always keep in mind that he had things thrown at him (like 9/11) that were challenges no other recent president has had to face, and for the immediate time afterward, his leadership really held the nation together. But stupid? No, that's a myth. The guy's comments above say it best.

Exactly, and that's not to mention that I've posted here at least twice, in response to the "Bush has a low IQ" myth, the evidence from snopes.com that proves it isn't true.

[Rip Rokken]

Exactly, and that's not to mention that I've posted here at least twice, in response to the "Bush has a low IQ" myth, the evidence from snopes.com that proves it isn't true.

I'm going to check that out and keep it on hand. I really try to be fair and as objective as possible in my judgments, admitting to warts where they lie. I just got so turned off on punditry and political hackery ("Crossfire"-type stuff). By the way, surely you've seen the clip of Jon Stewart shredding the Crossfire guys on their own show? Some people think that appearance alone helped lead to the eventual cancellation of the show. CLASSIC! Man, did those guys deserve that beating...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

Anyway, people really need to drop the "Bush is unintelligent" argument. Foolish, maybe, but not stupid.

[Enigma869]

In all honesty, I could care less what Bush scores on any IQ test! It's completely meaningless to me! He may have the highest IQ on the planet, but if it doesn't come through when he speaks, it's meaningless! He is about as inarticulate as any president I've ever heard give a speech! I've NEVER heard a guy misprounounce more words or fumble over his words as much as this guy does. Does that fact alone make him a bad president? Absolutely not. That said, it's tough to be inspired by a leader who has a difficult time stringing two sentences together! For the record, I'm not a registered democrat or republican. I simply call things as I see them! In my lifetime, the only two guys who I thought were VERY good presidents were Bill Clinton and Ronald Regan. Both Bush guys were abysmal (interesting how during BOTH of their administrations, gas prices were the highest of any other administration). Carter was a horrible president. He depleted the military and was simply too nice of a guy to be the leader of the free world. That said, he is probably the best ex-president we've ever had! I was born in 1970, so wasn't old enough to judge Ford or Nixon!


John from Boston

[Voyager]

Anyway, people really need to drop the "Bush is unintelligent" argument. Foolish, maybe, but not stupid.

I have to disaree with you on that one bro. I think Bush is dumber than a fucking rock. No one could do the idiotic shit that he has done without being a complete dumbfuck.