Lead singer changes

[Diffworlds]

While waiting to hear the new Journey, I reflected on some other changes. Here is my opinion of some lead singer changes in the past.


Changes that I enjoyed
Asia - John Payne replacing John Wetton. I love all of the Payne era Asia, too bad it didn't fare better commercially. Hardly ever listen to anything but the best 6 or so songs of Wetton era.
Toto - Joseph Williams replacing Fergie. Became a Toto album fan (opposed to singles) with Joe. Too bad it was so short. Bringing Kimball back as third vocalist in was brilliant also for "Mindfields" on.
Survivor - Jamison replacing Bickler - Dave had some great songs, Jimi had great albums
Chicago - slow changes to get there but I prefer the Champlin/Scheff lineup over the Kath/Cetera vocals. Kath/Cetera just have such volume of good to great work, but I listen to more of the latter day Chicago stuff lately.
Van Halen - Hagar for Roth. Loved it, became a Van Halen fan

Didn't hurt the band for my taste
Journey - Steve A. taking over for Steve P - I enjoy a lot of the Augeri stuff and it got me to go back and fill in the holes in Journey collection (first 5 albums & TBF) after ROR had turned me off.
Styx - Burtnik replacing Shaw - Became a huge Burtnik fan and went back and picked up my missing Styx albums. Gowan - DeYoung topic undecided since Gowan hasn't had many original songs w/Styx
LRB - Farnham replacing Shorrock didn't hurt or improve my enjoyment of the band. Still kept buying the next CD

Should've changed the name/done as another project
Van Halen - Cherone for Hagar - couple of interesting songs, but not as Van Halen.
Yes - Horn for Anderson - same as above, I enjoy it, but it is not Yes
Fleetwood Mac - Vito,Burnette & Mason taking over male vocals for Lindsey Buckingham. Some good songs, but Buckingham was brilliant and irreplaceable as a writer/producer/arranger for Mac.

What other changes am I missing?

Mike

"Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute"[/b]

[Vladan]

Caution, passionate post ahead.

Well in my opinion, if anyone is a Journey fan, and related to the music Perry delivered on the radio, on the record hits. The change will hurt you, or would of at the time - if it didn't then I don't think people really got into the music all that much, or were touched by Perry's soulful melodies. I would say that is your casual Journey fan.

But the only band that I was ever hurt by the change, was Journey - only because they are my favorite band on the planet, when Perry's on vocals. To me, Augeri can was covering Perry's material, and as good a singer Augeri is, in my opinion he didn't do justice to the songs Perry made famous.

You turn on the radio, you hear Wheel In The Sky - who's voice do you hear?. You turn on Television, you see Send Her My Love, who's face do you see?. You go to your local CD shop, you see their greatest hits, who's on lead vocals?.

You ask any celebrity who is a Journey fan, who do they remember singing lead when they grew up?. Here is another point, the first thing anyone will hear and what stands out on any Journey tune, is Perry's vocals. Sorry, it's not Neal Schon, Valory, or Cain, or Smith for that matter. Neal is great, but honestly doesn't stand out that much.

[Diffworlds]

I forgot Genesis. I enjoyed Collins taking over for Gabriel. I thought Ray Wilson was fantastic on "Calling All Stations" and pulled off an album that Collins couldn't have. Would have loved to See the Wilson line up of Genesis continue.

There are minor changes in bands like Eagles (Schmit for Meisner) that worked out well, but IMO didn't change the band because you still had the major players there. Everyone is a sideman in bands like that until Henley or Frey is replaced.

[Vladan]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

[finalfight]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

That being said Queen have had fantastic success with Paul Rogers as have Journey with Steve Augeri and subsquently JSS. Admittedly Journey's album sales post Perry (except the greatest hits/essential collections) have been lacking but they are still out there and rocking.

Playing devil's advocate you could easliy swap out Mick Jagger for Steven Tyler and vice versa and many would be none the wiser! Not sure about Roger Daltry he alway's looked a little lost...

To further fuel the fire Fran Cosmo did a great job of filling Brad Delp's considerable shoes for a time.

[NealIsGod]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

Sorry, I don't agree. It's just another incarnation of the band. Sure, one that is very jolting to a lot of people, but the music is what's important, not one man's vocal ability.

[Saint John]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

Sorry, I don't agree. It's just another incarnation of the band. Sure, one that is very jolting to a lot of people, but the music is what's important, not one man's vocal ability.

Spot fucking on. "Well Perry's out guys, should we retire, change our name (one that we had BEFORE him) or all join different bands?" Completely illogical. Journey did the right thing. They moved on. The only mistake they made was waiting 10+ years for Perry to make a decision.

[NealIsGod]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

Sorry, I don't agree. It's just another incarnation of the band. Sure, one that is very jolting to a lot of people, but the music is what's important, not one man's vocal ability.

Spot fucking on. "Well Perry's out guys, should we retire, change our name (one that we had BEFORE him) or all join different bands?" Completely illogical. Journey did the right thing. They moved on. The only mistake they made was waiting 10+ years for Perry to make a decision.

Yup. Think of all the music we missed out on because of one man's decision that he had enough money and was sick of working. I don't blame the guy, but I wish they had brought in JSS or another great singer in 1987 instead of starting Bad English, Hardline, The Storm, etc.

[strangegrey]

I think it really comes down to a few factors:

1) If the singer didn't have it to begin with and is replaced by someone who does, the change works. This type of change happens all the time and doesn't piss off the fans.
i.e. Paul being replaced by Bruce in Iron Maiden


2) If the singer had it *and* the replacement singer had it...and the band doesn't miss a single beat. everything's perfect. kick ass, take no names. To date, there is only one band that has EVER pulled this off. Van Halen (when Roth was replaced by Sammy). for the record, Cherone replacing Hagar falls into category #3.


3) If the singer has it and is replaced by someone who doesn't, this change is awful, disgraceful and simply unfun to watch play out. Also, depending on how good the original singers is, the severity of the umcomfortable nature of the change is amplified. Every lead singer change Journey has gone through falls into this category. There isn't a human being on this earth that should be allowed to whipe Steve Perry's sweaty balls. No one compares to him. So when you replace him with a damn good singer, it doesn't fucking matter is the singer would have *killed* in another band....he's replacing Steve Perry. Game Over.

[perryfaithful]

Game Over.

[Saint John]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

Sorry, I don't agree. It's just another incarnation of the band. Sure, one that is very jolting to a lot of people, but the music is what's important, not one man's vocal ability.

Spot fucking on. "Well Perry's out guys, should we retire, change our name (one that we had BEFORE him) or all join different bands?" Completely illogical. Journey did the right thing. They moved on. The only mistake they made was waiting 10+ years for Perry to make a decision.

Yup. Think of all the music we missed out on because of one man's decision that he had enough money and was sick of working. I don't blame the guy, but I wish they had brought in JSS or another great singer in 1987 instead of starting Bad English, Hardline, The Storm, etc.

You hit a MAJOR point in there. "All of the music we missed out on" is really sad when you think about it. While I can't channel into Perry's head and know what he is/was thinking, I am going to guess that he realized, for whatever reason(s), he couldn't do it anymore, and it hurt badly to see Journey, a band he helped bring to mega-stardom, move on without him. Thus, he did everything he could, consciously or subconsciously, to be stop them from doing so. Another casualty of these actions was that a period when a band could actually change lead singers came and went. They missed their "window." Journey's legacy of in-fighting and bad decisions, whether people are willing to admit it or not, pre-dates Perry's departure. It's just become "chic" lately to blame everything on the two main players who are actually willing to record and tour while Perry sits at home. I don't get it. I'm thinking of starting the Schon and Cain fan club. It's gonna be a long weekend for Drew.

[Diffworlds]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

A few things. All things become irreleant in time. Most bands being discussed on these boards are that way to the music industry. Billboard is not keeping open the #1 spot for the next Journey CD with or without Perry. It would be shoved aside in the promotion machine with a mass appeal package (a la Spears) with a catchy hook and cute face.

The other thing is how many times have we heard "he could sing the yellow pages and it would sell" about a lead singer. Simply not true. There is always a combination of writing/singing/producing/dumb luck that factors in to success. Perry hit that combo with Cain and Schon 20 years ago. Doesn't mean he would have hit the combo with every other keyboard player and guitarist then. Doesn't mean he would hit with Cain and Schon today. For my taste, he certainly didn't hit it solo. It was a combination of events that Perry was a part of. As vocalist he was the most noticeable part, but still just a part. Remove Cain or Schon from the equation and Journey made not have had the same chart history.

[jrnyjetster]

How could we forget these 2 important bands that enjoyed success without their original lead vocalists....

AC/DC

Rainbow

[NealIsGod]

AC/DC

You know, if Bon Scott had just decided to quit instead of dying, I wonder how AC/DC fans would have greeted Johnson then? Probably much less enthusiastically.

[chf34jmac]

AC/DC's female fans all have greeted Johnson so lovingly and have taken him well. The female fans were able to wrap their hands around Johnson as soon as he arrived on the scene. Johnson stood up to the task and has made many a female fan scream with delight.

[finalfight]

I think it really comes down to a few factors:

1) If the singer didn't have it to begin with and is replaced by someone who does, the change works. This type of change happens all the time and doesn't piss off the fans.
i.e. Paul being replaced by Bruce in Iron Maiden


2) If the singer had it *and* the replacement singer had it...and the band doesn't miss a single beat. everything's perfect. kick ass, take no names. To date, there is only one band that has EVERY pulled this off. Van Halen (when Roth was replaced by Sammy). for the record, Cherone replacing Hagar falls into category #3.


3) If the singer has it and is replaced by someone who doesn't, this change is awful, disgraceful and simply unfun to watch play out. Also, depending on how good the original singers is, the severity of the umcomfortable nature of the change is amplified. Every lead singer change Journey has gone through falls into this category. There isn't a human being on this earth that should be allowed to whipe Steve Perry's sweaty balls. No one compares to him. So when you replace him with a damn good singer, it doesn't fucking matter is the singer would have *killed* in another band....he's replacing Steve Perry. Game Over.

But the Paul Dianno Iron Maiden albums are regarded as classics and his run in Iron Maiden is often hotly debated as being the classic era. Personally I much prefer Bruce as it seems do the majority of the record buying public. The change definately worked the first time round although was less successful with Blaze taking the helm as Dickinson's replacement especially in a live environment. To be fair Blaze's solo output and solo live performances are generally excellent whilst Bruce is a little off his mark these days - as were Maiden's last two releases.

Tim Owen's run in Judas Priest worked and he actually bettered Halford on many of the Metal God's own songs, no small feat there.

Spot on with Van Halen - Cherone was not a good fit at all.

As for Journey whilst I really enjoyed much of Augeri's work I am hoping the new incarnation with Pineda at the helm will vocally revitalise the band whilst aiming for the benchmarks that Perry himself had set. To my ears Arnel is the closest anyone has ever got to singing like the master!

[EightyRock]

[quote="finalfight"] " To my ears Arnel is the closest anyone has ever got to singing like the master"

Irrelevant. Perry's writing contributions IN COMBINATION WITH his mega-voice overshadow anything that Pineda could ever bring to the table vocally. That's apples to oranges comparison. As was mention prior...game over...before Pineda even steps onstage. Journey already proved they have no faith in Pineda's writing contributions, or else Neal and Jon wouldn't have just finished a CD with just their material.

That's what the major problem has been with the 1998-forward versions of Journey. Schon and Cain think they are all it takes to create music in the same calibur as the old days. The only music that was was mandated to have several outside writers, which did not make Arrival indicative of what a Schon/Cain collaboration would be.

Kevin Shirley confirmed what we all have assumed for years.....Schon and Cain are about as far from agreeing on a musical direction as musicians can be. Red13 was Schon's direction totally, with Cain letting everybody know they lost their asses on it and it was Schon's baby. Generations was a last ditch, grasping-at-straws-hodge-podge.

Will the new CD be the first actual Schon/Cain collaboration, or did they both go off and write separately and Shirley had to try to mesh everything together in the studio?
How can Pineda be viewed as a talented, worthwhile addition to the band if he wasn't allowed to participate fully in the writing process of the CD? Did they just say....here's a new song....sing it as close to Perry's style as you can get? What's new and exciting about that?

[finalfight]

" To my ears Arnel is the closest anyone has ever got to singing like the master"

Irrelevant. Perry's writing contributions IN COMBINATION WITH his mega-voice overshadow anything that Pineda could ever bring to the table vocally. That's apples to oranges comparison. As was mention prior...game over...before Pineda even steps onstage. Journey already proved they have no faith in Pineda's writing contributions, or else Neal and Jon wouldn't have just finished a CD with just their material.

That's what the major problem has been with the 1998-forward versions of Journey. Schon and Cain think they are all it takes to create music in the same calibur as the old days. The only music that was was mandated to have several outside writers, which did not make Arrival indicative of what a Schon/Cain collaboration would be.

Kevin Shirley confirmed what we all have assumed for years.....Schon and Cain are about as far from agreeing on a musical direction as musicians can be. Red13 was Schon's direction totally, with Cain letting everybody know they lost their asses on it and it was Schon's baby. Generations was a last ditch, grasping-at-straws-hodge-podge.

Will the new CD be the first actual Schon/Cain collaboration, or did they both go off and write separately and Shirley had to try to mesh everything together in the studio?
How can Pineda be viewed as a talented, worthwhile addition to the band if he wasn't allowed to participate fully in the writing process of the CD? Did they just say....here's a new song....sing it as close to Perry's style as you can get? What's new and exciting about that?

It's not over until the fat lady sings...or in this case the small Filipino.

Whilst his writing contribution may or may not be an element of the band in the future there is little doubt in my mind that he is having a major input into the band's sound simply by singing the way he does and thus adding his own element to the songs. I would go so far as to say that due to his abilities he may have had some what of a free run on the vocal melodies on the new songs after all both Schon and Cain are not exactly talented in the singing department. It would be like Rolf Harris teaching Michelangelo how to paint.

Journey pre/with and post Perry have shown tremedous ability as songwriters as has Perry on his own material. Steve Perry was and always will be the voice of Journey and for many simply 'the voice'. I for one am intrigued to see what Journey has left in the tank at this stage after the twin horrors of Red 13 and Generations.

...and as an aside, lets just assume that we are in an alternate reality where Journey fully embraced the right kind of publicity and marketing via the opportunities available to them and hit the big time with Arnel as lead singer (American Idol i'm looking at you). Surely the financial reward and worldwide success would overshadow the negativity of the past? Hell bring on the duets for all I care just prove yourself a vital entity again and stop releasing sub-standard cr@p!

And further more, many of today's top recording artists don't write any of their 'own' material - despite credits granted due to contractual agreements! This doesn't make them any less successful. Infact look at what happened with Kelly Clarkson when she insisted on writing her last album against her label bosses wishes...can you say FLOP? Why should Arnel be given the opportunity to write with Journey at this point? As Cain & Schon have proven success in this area maybe we should just sit back, trust in thier abilities and hopefully enjoy the end result!

[brywool]

Clarkson's album was a FLOP sales-wise, but it was a good album. I think that the record company stuck it to her for being 'little miss independent'. I think she did the right thing. Who wants to sing somebody else's feelings?

[mistiejourney]

Opinions are like lead singers...everyone has one and they are free to change them at any minute

And lose the signature sound that makes them famous, and thus become irrelevant in the music industry. It doesn't quite work that way pal

Some lead singers are expendable, some however are not. Freddie wasn't, nor was Perry, nor is Mick Jagger of the Stones, or Roger Daltrey of the Who.

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

Sorry, I don't agree. It's just another incarnation of the band. Sure, one that is very jolting to a lot of people, but the music is what's important, not one man's vocal ability.

Spot fucking on. "Well Perry's out guys, should we retire, change our name (one that we had BEFORE him) or all join different bands?" Completely illogical. Journey did the right thing. They moved on. The only mistake they made was waiting 10+ years for Perry to make a decision.

True, I was always amazed that they did not "move on" a lot faster than they did. It was so odd - Journey wasn't "broken up", but they weren't together, either. Then along comes TBF right when you think you'll never hear them again.

And while I loved to watch Paul, Lincoln, Todd and Moyes with Steve on the FTLOSM tour, there was a certain sadness that it wasn't Journey I was watching. Like I've said before, I got past it, but all I could think during that first concert was "that should be Journey up there".

[finalfight]

Clarkson's album was a FLOP sales-wise, but it was a good album. I think that the record company stuck it to her for being 'little miss independent'. I think she did the right thing. Who wants to sing somebody else's feelings?

Apparantly she does as she had to eat a tremendous amount of humble pie afterward apologising to record company boss Clive Davis, her fans and cancelling her tour due in part to poor sales.

Money talks i'm afraid.

"When Clarkson's My December failed to debut at #1 last week, RCA pulled almost all of their summer campaign of tv and print spots and have moved on to Carrie Underwood's much anticipated fall release. Carrie Underwood's first single off her new album looks like it's going to be a huge hit!The gorgeous radio-friendly power ballad So Small has been out less than a handful of days and it's already #3 on the iTunes singles charts, and it's tracking VERY well at radio. Carrie's really glad she listened to Clive Davis!"

"Kelly Clarkson cancelled her big arena tour earlier this summer due to poor ticket sales and a dud of an album.
Despite that, the American Idol alum is soldiering on, hitting the road this fall. Kelly is playing small 2500 seat venues, even casinos!"

"Following the critical and commercial disappointment of her most recent album, My December, and the controversy surrounding it, Kelly Clarkson has agreed to start working on a new album right away, which will be released in 2008.

Clarkson's last album, Breakaway, sold a whopping six million copies in the U.S. alone. My December is expected to sell only about 850,000.
It seems like Kelly has realized the error of her ways and is taking the appropriate steps to ensure she gets her career back on track.

My December, which was released just weeks ago, was shelved by music mogul Clive Davis for months because he didn't think the album had any hits.
Clarkson ended up cancelling her poor-selling summer tour and firing her manager, as a result of all the drama. Realizing the error of her ways, Kelly took the bold move of apologizing publicly to Clive Davis earlier this week.

The new album that Clarkson is recording will definitely be more radio friendly and promises to have the big pop hits this recent album lacks. Davis is overseeing the new project from its inception."

[DCD]

IMO...it's a hell of a lot better (although harder to do) when a band changes direction when replacing a singer. Hagar brought his own voice to Van Halen, Brian Johnson with ACDC, JSS with Journey ( yes, it would have worked). Sure, Jeff altered his delivery to sing the Perry high wire vocals, but his own tone would have pushed Journey into a new solid direction just as when Perry came into the picture...Not saying it would have been as successful commercially, just different and positive, and not trying to duplicate something that was already done. The same reason I like the Queen with Paul Rogers material...not trying to replace Freddy, just creating good music and celebrating the classic stuff in a different way.

[Voyager]

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

What did the guys in the Elvis band do after he died? Did they grab an Elvis impersonator and start touring the country?

I think a band going through a lead singer replacement should have a new sound and a new direction if they want to be recognized as an original act. If they grab someone based on his voice souding the same as the last guy, and they make him sing the songs that the last guy made famous - then the band should be categorized as a tribute band.

I have to admit, I was very reluctant to embrace Steve Augeri. I got kicked off of the BackTalk forum for not being willing to accept a Steve Perry impersonator as a replacement singer for Journey. I am having a problem embracing Arnel for the same reasons. I didn't have an issue with JSS because he stepped in to help the band salvage their tour with promises of new original material that was not aimed at purposely recreating the Perry sound.

[DCD]

So when a singer like one of those guys decides he doesn't want to be in the band anymore, when all of the other band members still do and are in their prime, all the music they created should be locked away and never played live again? Just because of one person's desire to hang it up? And if they do bring in another singer, they are now irrelevant?

What did the guys in the Elvis band do after he died? Did they grab an Elvis impersonator and start touring the country?

I think a band going through a lead singer replacement should have a new sound and a new direction if they want to be recognized as an original act. If they grab someone based on his voice souding the same as the last guy, and they make him sing the songs that the last guy made famous - then the band should be categorized as a tribute band.

I have to admit, I was very reluctant to embrace Steve Augeri. I got kicked off of the BackTalk forum for not being willing to accept a Steve Perry impersonator as a replacement singer for Journey. I am having a problem embracing Arnel for the same reasons. I didn't have an issue with JSS because he stepped in to help the band salvage their tour with promises of new original material that was not aimed at purposely recreating the Perry sound.

exactly, well stated...

[squirt1]

Sure bands have the right to go on when their singer leaves or is dismissed. The fans have the same right of not having to settle for less. Name bands that actually got bigger sales and revenue afterwards. THey are few ! Also many of these singers were writers.

[strangegrey]

How could we forget these 2 important bands that enjoyed success without their original lead vocalists....

AC/DC

Rainbow

a few thoughts here...if you were responding to my above post.

Someone mentioned this already, but there's an exemption clause to rule #2....in that if the singer replaces a dead dude, he gets a pass. Brian Johnson replacing Bon and then recording Back in Black is probably the only thing that comes close to what VH experienced. however, As mentioned by someone else, if Bon wasn't dead and it was either a firing or a quit, brian johnson wouldn't have been welcomed as easily, me thinks.

as forRainbow?!!?!?!?! Listen, Blackmore, that weird fucking whacko, has always had a complex with eddie van halen. Any interview he's (prior to turning into music's version of medival times) asked about EVH, his head starts to explode and he starts getting all catty. It's clear Blackmore was threatened by him....with good reason.

But moving on, Rainbow, as a band, has no business being even mentioned in the same sentence as VH. One was the greatest Rock band in the world, the other was a side-show, for a freak show....

[STORY_TELLER]

Sorry guys, but all the examples and arguments for replacing an established lead singer don't equate to Journey's situation.

Journey's sound was founded on the collaboration of Neal 's guitar and Perry's vocals. To coin a phrase: "they completed each other". It's what made the band unique. Perry joining the band saved it from going nowhere. They were on their way out when Perry came around. This is why a Perryless Journey just isn't Journey.

Perry's involvement wasn't just about his range. Wasn't just about his tenor. Wasn't just about his soulful delivery. Wasn't just about his song writing. It was all of that combined, and more. His voice has a unique characteristic. It's not something quantifiable. You can't explain it. You can only feel it. It just is.

Journey's sound is identifiable not from Neal's guitar and not from Perry's vocal, but the combination of the two. Replace Cain tomorrow, drop the keyboards in favor of a rhythm guitarist and bring Perry back in the mix and you'll still have the Journey sound. Perry and Schon have a unique chemistry when they work together and they're both weaker artists when they work separate from one another. Neal's guitar is an extension of Perry's vocals and Perry's vocals and melody choices excel when he's floating them over Neal's riffs.

Something that unique isn't replaceable. I seriously doubt that chemistry will be found with any other singer, no matter how talented.

That being said, Perry decided to quit Journey. The ball has always been in his court. If he wanted back in, Neal would drop Pineda in a heartbeat. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Without Perry, Journey only has the dirty dozen tour to rely on. Radio won't support new material from 80's generation bands who disappear from the spotlight only to return without their original singers (if at all). Only the diehards will purchase their new material anyway.

The only real positive here is Pineda is 10 times the vocalist Augeri was. This is in fact, a step up in quality and we should look at it that way.

[Voyager]

Journey's sound was founded on the collaboration of Neal 's guitar and Perry's vocals. To coin a phrase: "they completed each other". It's what made the band unique. Perry joining the band saved it from going nowhere. They were on their way out when Perry came around. This is why a Perryless Journey just isn't Journey.

Well stated. No one can argue this based on the actual facts. Even Neal himself knows this is true - that's why he is on a continual search to find the best Perry clone alive on the planet. Neal knows that a "Perryless Journey just isn't Journey".

I have no idea why people continue to argue over this issue. No one has yet to present any evidence of Journey material that was commercially successful apart from Perry's involvement. Until they do, I'd say the argument is null and void. People who believe a Perryless Journey has been successful are just fooling themselves. As long as there is someone who sounds like Steve Perry singing songs for Journey that Perry made famous, there is no Perryless Journey.

[marco17]

Whether right or wrong, I think Journey did want to move on with a different sound, ala Red13, and that was what they used to test the water. It allowed Neal to have that harder rock sound and catered to Steve Augeri's natural vocals. The problem they ran into was that the rest of the world wants "Open Arms," "Seperate Ways," etc all over again, all the time, which I believe forced them to their current state of irrelevence. Not to mention even those who were begging for the band to take go a different direction did nothing but bash Red13. Then you hear Neal wasn't really involved with Generations, and it seems pretty logical. If he doesn't want to waste time doing another "typical" Journey record, he'll go do Soul Sirkus to get out the music he really wants to play, but can't with Journey. Everyone mentions the excitement Neal had wanting to write new stuff with Jeff, and I think Jeff's different vocal sound was the excuse Neal was waiting for to do it, and luckily for him all the issues with Augeri's voice became public, and he was out. With Augeri or now Arnel, you are talking about two guys who were/are in the band for one reason... they can impersonate Perry fairly well, and while it remains to be seen what the world's reaction will be to Arnel, Augeri was accepted for the most point by the average fan as a quasi-Perry. Yeah, nobody can replace Perry but at least he was a better than average replacement who enabled the fans to see them live, and relive memories, which is really the point for Journey touring in this day an age. Unfortunately, at this point, as Cain and Schon desperately try to grasp for some level of acceptance, I foresee another "typical" Journey album on the horizon with the next attempt at "Open Arms" or whatever sterotypical Journey track with Arnel belting out the vocals.

[DCD]

Journey's sound was founded on the collaboration of Neal 's guitar and Perry's vocals. To coin a phrase: "they completed each other". It's what made the band unique. Perry joining the band saved it from going nowhere. They were on their way out when Perry came around. This is why a Perryless Journey just isn't Journey.

Well stated. No one can argue this based on the actual facts. Even Neal himself knows this is true - that's why he is on a continual search to find the best Perry clone alive on the planet. Neal knows that a "Perryless Journey just isn't Journey".

I have no idea why people continue to argue over this issue. No one has yet to present any evidence of Journey material that was commercially successful apart from Perry's involvement. Until they do, I'd say the argument is null and void. People who believe a Perryless Journey has been successful are just fooling themselves. As long as there is someone who sounds like Steve Perry singing songs for Journey that Perry made famous, there is no Perryless Journey.

I agree except for the last two projects...ROR and TBF had arguably only a few good songs combined, at least when you compare them to the previous material where it was the opposite. Mostly good tunes with maybe one clunker...and Perry's decisions with direction were taking shape. You can hear the song writing magic between Perry and Lord Farquaad changing. A friend of mine who gave up on them after TBF called the sound "MATURNEY" due to the whimpy and adult rock nature of the songs!! That's why I think a new direction with JSS would have worked. I know I would have bought the CD and a ticket without thinking about it.

okay, I'm off the dead horse now...carry on without the newbie...