Bush Administration lied repeatedly to justify war...what a

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Postby sadie65 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:46 am

NealIsGod wrote:
sadie65 wrote:It is doubtful a Republican will win. This country often does shifts back and forth in 8-12 year spans.


Yeah, but if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, lots more voters will either vote Republican or stay home than they would if anyone else is the nominee.


That is a possibility. She can be a polarizing figure. And there is the possibility that people won't accept her because of her gender. As advanced as we'd like to believe we are...not sure everyone advances at the same time.
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Postby NealIsGod » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:48 am

sadie65 wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:
sadie65 wrote:It is doubtful a Republican will win. This country often does shifts back and forth in 8-12 year spans.


Yeah, but if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, lots more voters will either vote Republican or stay home than they would if anyone else is the nominee.


That is a possibility. She can be a polarizing figure. And there is the possibility that people won't accept her because of her gender. As advanced as we'd like to believe we are...not sure everyone advances at the same time.


I won't vote for her because Bill would make such an ugly first lady. :lol:
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Postby sadie65 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:49 am

NealIsGod wrote:
sadie65 wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:
sadie65 wrote:It is doubtful a Republican will win. This country often does shifts back and forth in 8-12 year spans.


Yeah, but if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, lots more voters will either vote Republican or stay home than they would if anyone else is the nominee.


That is a possibility. She can be a polarizing figure. And there is the possibility that people won't accept her because of her gender. As advanced as we'd like to believe we are...not sure everyone advances at the same time.


I won't vote for her because Bill would make such an ugly first lady. :lol:


LMAO!!!! Wiping screen off now.
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Postby lights1961 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:55 am

HIL needs Ross Perot to run again. so she can get 43% just like her husband did during 1992 and 1996. I think that is the only way she gets in if a third party gets in it---
Bloomberg or someone else.

If Nadar gets in the race it hurts Hilary.





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Postby MJM1959 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:18 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Politics isn't a good thing to discuss sometimes, because it could turn people who are friends into enemies.

With that said, one thing that has to be put into consideration here. There are people who are killing themselves every day(suicide bombers, etc.) to take away the lives of people who live in freedom, and it will take people who believe in freedom to give their own lives so people can continue to live in freedom.


I still want to know how Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, Osama Bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threaten our freedom. They may or may not be willing and able to kill Americans. But they do not pose a serious threat to our freedom, our government or our way of life. GWB, by way of the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act have done more to curtail the freedom of the American people than the above mentioned group of clown is capable of doing.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:37 am

lights1961 wrote:HIL needs Ross Perot to run again. so she can get 43% just like her husband did during 1992 and 1996. I think that is the only way she gets in if a third party gets in it---
Bloomberg or someone else.

If Nadar gets in the race it hurts Hilary.





Rick


LOL, keep hoping. Bloomberg won't run because his polling shows he can't beat her. I read polls daily. I get inside polling. The electoral college right now shows a McCain win, but that will change as soon as the Dems get their one nominee.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:54 am

7 Wishes wrote:Those Democrats weren't lying...almost every one of those statements was made IN RESPONSE TO THE LIES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION was passing off as "intelligence". These Democrats were BEING LIED TO.

Dumbass.

The quotes by Bill Clinton and Madaline Albright were made in '98...BEFORE BUSH WAS PRESIDENT!!!!
You're either ignorant or blinded by hatred.
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Postby SteveForever » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:08 am

RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Those Democrats weren't lying...almost every one of those statements was made IN RESPONSE TO THE LIES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION was passing off as "intelligence". These Democrats were BEING LIED TO.

Dumbass.

The quotes by Bill Clinton and Madaline Albright were made in '98...BEFORE BUSH WAS PRESIDENT!!!!
You're either ignorant or blinded by hatred.


7 Wishes were you born in America and are you a registered citizen now? just curious....
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:10 am

RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Those Democrats weren't lying...almost every one of those statements was made IN RESPONSE TO THE LIES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION was passing off as "intelligence". These Democrats were BEING LIED TO.

Dumbass.

The quotes by Bill Clinton and Madaline Albright were made in '98...BEFORE BUSH WAS PRESIDENT!!!!
You're either ignorant or blinded by hatred.


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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:31 am

MJM1959 wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Politics isn't a good thing to discuss sometimes, because it could turn people who are friends into enemies.

With that said, one thing that has to be put into consideration here. There are people who are killing themselves every day(suicide bombers, etc.) to take away the lives of people who live in freedom, and it will take people who believe in freedom to give their own lives so people can continue to live in freedom.


I still want to know how Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, Osama Bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threaten our freedom. They may or may not be willing and able to kill Americans. But they do not pose a serious threat to our freedom, our government or our way of life. GWB, by way of the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act have done more to curtail the freedom of the American people than the above mentioned group of clown is capable of doing.


If you need to ask me that question in order to know the answer then you still won't get it if I told you.
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Postby SteveForever » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:57 am

ohsherrie wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Politics isn't a good thing to discuss sometimes, because it could turn people who are friends into enemies.

With that said, one thing that has to be put into consideration here. There are people who are killing themselves every day(suicide bombers, etc.) to take away the lives of people who live in freedom, and it will take people who believe in freedom to give their own lives so people can continue to live in freedom.


Yeah, and that's why the war in Afghanistan was a just war. Iraq had nothing to do with it. Now our soldiers are giving their lives for Bush's ego and to keep the oil barons rich.


Oh boy, a few thoughts from someone that was there ...from '91 to '03 the US and coalition
forces enforced 'no-fly' zones and various other UN sanctions in Iraq as
a consequence of Iraq's un provoked invasion and subsequent willful
destruction of Kuwait.

In case the weak knee'd and overly green crowd
don't remember Sadaam burned every oil well he could reach in Kuwait and
set off one of the worlds greatest environmental disasters. Once the
sanctions, which were directed by the UN, were in place by '91, Sadaam
then began to shoot at coalition aircraft and violate the sanctions at
every turn.

During the 90's Sadaam drained the ancient swamps of the
southern Tigris/Euphrates river and burned them driving the Shiites from
their lands and their traditional ways to make a living. Sadaam's
belligerence grew by each year and could only be characterized as a
rogue leader. The people of Iraq might have been physically better off,
reliable power, water and a relatively stable day to day life, but they
were slaves to his regime and lived in fear and not in control of their
own destiny.

He intentionally played games with his nuclear ambitions
and as we now know conducted a pretty effective deception campaign to
influence us to believe he had or was close to developing the capability
to deliver WMD. With that capability always comes the option of
exporting it to terrorists.

He had close connections with Syria and we
now know pandered to Al Queda under the premise that the enemy of my
enemy can also be my friend. Invading Iraq may not have been the best
solution at the time, but only time will tell. For now we know Al Queda
and other organizations want to strike the US and its interests. But
for now their resources are tied up in Iraq as they have stated that is
the center of their war on the west right now. For us to engage them
there means that they are using their precious resources, time and money
to fight us OFF US soil. So we can carry out our daily lives without
fear. Arguably this may be temporary as an open border is nothing but
an invitation for them to open a second front at our back door!

:wink:
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Postby MJM1959 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:01 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
MJM1959 wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Politics isn't a good thing to discuss sometimes, because it could turn people who are friends into enemies.

With that said, one thing that has to be put into consideration here. There are people who are killing themselves every day(suicide bombers, etc.) to take away the lives of people who live in freedom, and it will take people who believe in freedom to give their own lives so people can continue to live in freedom.


I still want to know how Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, Osama Bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threaten our freedom. They may or may not be willing and able to kill Americans. But they do not pose a serious threat to our freedom, our government or our way of life. GWB, by way of the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act have done more to curtail the freedom of the American people than the above mentioned group of clown is capable of doing.


If you need to ask me that question in order to know the answer then you still won't get it if I told you.


Bullshit! You do not have an answer. Feel free to live your life in fear. Afraid of this concocted boogie man that this administration would have you pissing in your pants over. Home of the brave, my ass. What a bunch of bed-wetting pansies this country has become.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:07 am

Nice post, SteveForever.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 am

MJM1959 wrote:I still want to know how ..... Osama Bin Laden.... threaten our freedom.

Ask a loved one of someone who died on 9/11 that. :roll:

MJM1959 wrote:Bullshit! You do not have an answer. Feel free to live your life in fear. Afraid of this concocted boogie man that this administration would have you pissing in your pants over. Home of the brave, my ass. What a bunch of bed-wetting pansies this country has become.

You wouldn't happen to believe in manmade global warming would you? :lol: So you support a party that tells you what kind of car to drive, what you can and can't eat (transfats), what kind of lightbulb you have to use, how much your toilet can flush. :roll:
What a wonderful nanny state this could be if we could get universal health care forced on everyone. We'd be told what doctor to see, when and how often. Punished for missing appointments (If Sen. Edwards has his way) That would be the ultimate pansy state. :roll:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:14 am

MJM1959 wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
MJM1959 wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Politics isn't a good thing to discuss sometimes, because it could turn people who are friends into enemies.

With that said, one thing that has to be put into consideration here. There are people who are killing themselves every day(suicide bombers, etc.) to take away the lives of people who live in freedom, and it will take people who believe in freedom to give their own lives so people can continue to live in freedom.


I still want to know how Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, Osama Bin Laden or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threaten our freedom. They may or may not be willing and able to kill Americans. But they do not pose a serious threat to our freedom, our government or our way of life. GWB, by way of the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act have done more to curtail the freedom of the American people than the above mentioned group of clown is capable of doing.


If you need to ask me that question in order to know the answer then you still won't get it if I told you.


Bullshit! You do not have an answer. Feel free to live your life in fear. Afraid of this concocted boogie man that this administration would have you pissing in your pants over. Home of the brave, my ass. What a bunch of bed-wetting pansies this country has become.


Did you ever SERVE your country? I know many here who have, I know a few that saw combat, I know some who were injured. What have YOU done? Besides coming on a forum a bitching about nothing. It's not a boogie man either. We have been hit repeatedly by muslim extemists over the last 30 years. Better learn some history.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:15 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Nice post, SteveForever.


Her post is GOP pigcrap.

Like the republicans give a flying fuck about the environment.

I am done with all you retards. I can care less how well all of you copy and paste. Fact is Hillary, Obama or Edwards and a DEM Congress are arriving in November.

Get used to it or bitch, I could care less about your side of the aisle any longer. Fuck you all.(politically, NOT personally)
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Postby X factor » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:19 am

RedWingFan wrote:
MJM1959 wrote:I still want to know how ..... Osama Bin Laden.... threaten our freedom.

Ask a loved one of someone who died on 9/11 that. :roll:

MJM1959 wrote:Bullshit! You do not have an answer. Feel free to live your life in fear. Afraid of this concocted boogie man that this administration would have you pissing in your pants over. Home of the brave, my ass. What a bunch of bed-wetting pansies this country has become.

You wouldn't happen to believe in manmade global warming would you? :lol: So you support a party that tells you what kind of car to drive, what you can and can't eat (transfats), what kind of lightbulb you have to use, how much your toilet can flush. :roll:
What a wonderful nanny state this could be if we could get universal health care forced on everyone. We'd be told what doctor to see, when and how often. Punished for missing appointments (If Sen. Edwards has his way) That would be the ultimate pansy state. :roll:


Yes, cause we Americans have shown time and time again how WONDERFULLY responsible, and what great stewards of the environment, we are...
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:26 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:Nice post, SteveForever.


Her post is GOP pigcrap.

Like the republicans give a flying fuck about the environment.

I am done with all you retards. I can care less how well all of you copy and paste. Fact is Hillary, Obama or Edwards and a DEM Congress are arriving in November.

Get used to it or bitch, I could care less about your side of the aisle any longer. Fuck you all.


You are evidently smoking something. Can I have some?

NO HOW, NO WAY A Democrat gets electing in November, especially Clinton.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:28 am

X factor wrote:Yes, cause we Americans have shown time and time again how WONDERFULLY responsible, and what great stewards of the environment, we are...

Yeah, like the government forcing aerosol makers to get rid of CFC's to "save" the ozone layer? Ooops, the hole shrinks because the sun creates ozone.
Or how Rachel Carson's book "Silent Spring" spoke out about the effects of DDT on bird eggs and how it had to be discontinued. It was and fast forward a couple of decades and the malaria that DDT had under control comes back and kills millions of African men, women and children. W.H.O. estimates 20 million children. "Wonderfully responsible" :roll:
Wacko environmentalists kill humanity.
Last edited by RedWingFan on Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:29 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:Nice post, SteveForever.


Her post is GOP pigcrap.

Like the republicans give a flying fuck about the environment.

I am done with all you retards. I can care less how well all of you copy and paste. Fact is Hillary, Obama or Edwards and a DEM Congress are arriving in November.

Get used to it or bitch, I could care less about your side of the aisle any longer. Fuck you all.


You are evidently smoking something. Can I have some?

NO HOW, NO WAY A Democrat gets electing in November, especially Clinton.


What do you have that you can wager? You name the price.

Haha, you should turn on the TV and listen once in awhile.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:56 am

Yep, that bastion of accuracy TV.

CNN was all over it in 2000 when they called Florida for Gore just because he had a lead before the polls closed.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:10 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Yep, that bastion of accuracy TV.

CNN was all over it in 2000 when they called Florida for Gore just because he had a lead before the polls closed.

Joepa you're wrong here. Bush was ahead when they called Florida for Gore. It made no sense, especially since the "red" panhandle hadn't been counted yet. I don't think Gore ever led! Wishful thinking I guess. :D
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Postby X factor » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:11 am

RedWingFan wrote:
X factor wrote:Yes, cause we Americans have shown time and time again how WONDERFULLY responsible, and what great stewards of the environment, we are...

Yeah, like the government forcing aerosol makers to get rid of CFC's to "save" the ozone layer? Ooops, the hole shrinks because the sun creates ozone.
Or how Rachel Carson's book "Silent Spring" spoke out about the effects of DDT on bird eggs and how it had to be discontinued. It was and fast forward a couple of decades and the malaria that DDT had under control comes back and kills millions of African men, women and children. W.H.O. estimates 20 million children. "Wonderfully responsible" :roll:
Wacko environmentalists kill humanity.


Or perhaps the DDT just made the mosquitos mutate into stronger and more resitant creatures? And incidentally, Carson never advocated the total ban on DDT. She only pointed out that "the indiscriminate spraying of the time was not only poisoning birds and fish and people, it was making the target insects and the diseases they carry even stronger".

Anyhow, that's not the point. If you DON'T think that the cars you drive and the power that we consume at such a mass rate have an effect on our natural environment, well...then we don't really have a basis for discussion. You make a good point that the alarmists out there tend to do more harm than good, but dammit "the storm's a' comin'". as my Grandpa liked to say.
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Postby ProgRocker53 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:15 am

I'm Libertarian and probably won't vote for either major party unless it's Ron Paul or Barack Obama...

...but it's clear that no matter who the GOP chooses, they're probably going to suffer a momentous defeat.

It's shocking enough that Dubya was re-elected, so it'll be even more shocking if a Republican takes the seat yet again.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:23 am

X factor wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
X factor wrote:Yes, cause we Americans have shown time and time again how WONDERFULLY responsible, and what great stewards of the environment, we are...

Yeah, like the government forcing aerosol makers to get rid of CFC's to "save" the ozone layer? Ooops, the hole shrinks because the sun creates ozone.
Or how Rachel Carson's book "Silent Spring" spoke out about the effects of DDT on bird eggs and how it had to be discontinued. It was and fast forward a couple of decades and the malaria that DDT had under control comes back and kills millions of African men, women and children. W.H.O. estimates 20 million children. "Wonderfully responsible" :roll:
Wacko environmentalists kill humanity.


Or perhaps the DDT just made the mosquitos mutate into stronger and more resitant creatures? And incidentally, Carson never advocated the total ban on DDT. She only pointed out that "the indiscriminate spraying of the time was not only poisoning birds and fish and people, it was making the target insects and the diseases they carry even stronger".

No, deaths by malaria were down because of DDT use. The wackos came in, banned it, cases of malaria went through the roof. Millions died after it was discontinued. I don't necessarily blame Carson, but those who followed her that had the power to effect this deadly change.
X factor wrote:Anyhow, that's not the point. If you DON'T think that the cars you drive and the power that we consume at such a mass rate have an effect on our natural environment, well...then we don't really have a basis for discussion.

Absolutely not.
X factor wrote:You make a good point that the alarmists out there tend to do more harm than good, but dammit "the storm's a' comin'". as my Grandpa liked to say.

Oh yeah, it's coming.... There's always some kind of catastrophe we're gonna cause. Remember how we were told global warming was the cause of Katrina? The past 2 years of hurricane season have seen way below normal activity. :wink:
After all the media can't exactly take to the air reporting, "All planes landed safely at the local airport today!" :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:36 am

Katrina was a man made disaster. It was caused by a bunch of government dependent lazy fucks ignoring a week's worth of warnings to GET THE FUCK OUT. I feel sorry for the elderly and young children only. Had those buses that were NOT used to get people out of town been supplying a free ride to a fucking casino that city would have been a ghost town. Who is fucking stupid enough to live below sea level without an emergency evacuation plan, anyway? :?
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:41 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:Did you ever SERVE your country? I know many here who have, I know a few that saw combat, I know some who were injured. What have YOU done? Besides coming on a forum a bitching about nothing. It's not a boogie man either. We have been hit repeatedly by muslim extemists over the last 30 years. Better learn some history.

Look RVR, I agree with you, but I'll tell you the same thing I tell Dean about the "I served" argument. It's a lame way of trying to shut down debate. Believe me I'm thankful for all our servicemen past and present, you included. But please don't use it to try to shut someone up!!!! Use facts! :D
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Postby X factor » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:41 am

Saint John wrote:Katrina was a man made disaster. It was caused by a bunch of government dependent lazy fucks ignoring a week's worth of warnings to GET THE FUCK OUT. I feel sorry for the elderly and young children only. Had those buses that were NOT used to get people out of town been supplying a free ride to a fucking casino that city would have been a ghost town. Who is fucking stupid enough to live below sea level without an emergency evacuation plan, anyway? :?


Dan (can I call you Dan :) that's not exactly the case. The storm wasn't upgraded to a cat 5 UNTIL about 2 days before it hit. It was, I believe, a 3, which for the folks along the coast is a walk in the park. (I rode out a 3 when I lived down there, and it wasn't that difficult) Plus, the storm turned toward them at the last possible instant (particularly those along the MS gulf). The PROBLEM was the ineptitude of the city and state officaials who seemed completely unprepared for something like this. There's lot of blame to go around...
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:44 am

X factor wrote:Dan (can I call you Dan :) that's not exactly the case. The storm wasn't upgraded to a cat 5 UNTIL about 2 days before it hit. It was, I believe, a 3, which for the folks along the coast is a walk in the park. (I rode out a 3 when I lived down there, and it wasn't that difficult) Plus, the storm turned toward them at the last possible instant (particularly those along the MS gulf). The PROBLEM was the ineptitude of the city and state officaials who seemed completely unprepared for something like this. There's lot of blame to go around...

Agreed. Government has long majored in "inemptitude". That's why I don't want them in charge of my health care. :wink:
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Postby Saint John » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:49 am

X factor wrote:
Saint John wrote:Katrina was a man made disaster. It was caused by a bunch of government dependent lazy fucks ignoring a week's worth of warnings to GET THE FUCK OUT. I feel sorry for the elderly and young children only. Had those buses that were NOT used to get people out of town been supplying a free ride to a fucking casino that city would have been a ghost town. Who is fucking stupid enough to live below sea level without an emergency evacuation plan, anyway? :?


Dan (can I call you Dan :) that's not exactly the case. The storm wasn't upgraded to a cat 5 UNTIL about 2 days before it hit. It was, I believe, a 3, which for the folks along the coast is a walk in the park. (I rode out a 3 when I lived down there, and it wasn't that difficult) Plus, the storm turned toward them at the last possible instant (particularly those along the MS gulf). The PROBLEM was the ineptitude of the city and state officaials who seemed completely unprepared for something like this. There's lot of blame to go around...


Fair enough, but living below sea level in a part of the country ripe for this sort of thing is insane. And the 48 hour warning they were given is plenty of time to hop in your car or onto a train or plane and get the fuck out.
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