OT--- tax rebates...

[Arkansas]

... And let me tell you.... $75K a year in the Bay Area in California is NOT the same as $75K a year in Arkansas, but the government treats it the same.

Exactly why I love it here in God's Country so much. The standards of living are low, and the crime rate (at least in my neck of the woods) is virtually non-existant. Life is clean and simple. For $75k around here, you can live quite upscale...and it gets exponential the higher the income.

Btw, this isn't a tax rebate, it's a PREbate. That means that if you get this, you'll claim it as income on next year's filing for 2008. This means the Fed will get it back, and it also means that charitable donations this year may increase because people will want to be able to claim more deductions next year to balance it out. This prebate actually does more economic good than immediately give people a few bucks. There's definitely 'trickle-down/up' involved.

And to whoever says this is 'buying votes', I'd like to know for whom? Nancy Pelosi? Any political benefit from this will go to those with immediate constituents - ALL the Washington whackos, more so than just the President.


later~

[RedWingFan]

Its nice people are getting a refund but it aint gonna help the economy. This is failed Keynesian economics.

Unless you permamently cut marginal tax rates and reduce the burden that small and medium business face thereby increasing the incentive to invest and creat jobs, no progress will be made - better save that 300 dollar check for the shitstorm ahead

Absolutely, and think about this. If my tax rebate is supposed to help the economy, what will happen if Democrats get their wish and let the Bush tax cuts elapse, which would in effect make me pay more taxes. Wouldn't that hurt the economy?

[JrnyScarab]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

Where in that article does it say that 50% of Americans pay no taxes?? It says that "the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes that year. The richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%." It did not say that only 39% or 60% or 70% paid in, it's 39%, 60% & 70% OF THE TOTAL 100% that was paid. BIG difference.

This article says the figure is 32%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

Even if it is 32%, which I believe it is much higher, that is still unacceptable!

Well I'll have to agree with you on that one. I'm definitley picking up the slack for one or two that aren't paying their share. Whether I want to or not.

So are we! And let me tell you.... $75K a year in the Bay Area in California is NOT the same as $75K a year in Arkansas, but the government treats it the same.

I don't know how an individual/family making $75K a year can afford a house in California. It just doesn't add up unless you have a 50 year mortgage.

That's the crux of the problem. People COULDN'T afford normal 30 year mortgages, so banks & mortgage companies push ARM loans and other crazy loans with low teaser rates that people could afford. The assumption was that house prices would continue to climb creating new equity to borrow and rates would stay low. This created a bubble that was bound to pop and low and behold, the bubble is deflating in a BIG way.

[KenTheDude]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

Where in that article does it say that 50% of Americans pay no taxes?? It says that "the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes that year. The richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%." It did not say that only 39% or 60% or 70% paid in, it's 39%, 60% & 70% OF THE TOTAL 100% that was paid. BIG difference.

This article says the figure is 32%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

Even if it is 32%, which I believe it is much higher, that is still unacceptable!

Well I'll have to agree with you on that one. I'm definitley picking up the slack for one or two that aren't paying their share. Whether I want to or not.

So are we! And let me tell you.... $75K a year in the Bay Area in California is NOT the same as $75K a year in Arkansas, but the government treats it the same.

I don't know how an individual/family making $75K a year can afford a house in California. It just doesn't add up unless you have a 50 year mortgage.

That's the crux of the problem. People COULDN'T afford normal 30 year mortgages, so banks & mortgage companies push ARM loans and other crazy loans with low teaser rates that people could afford. The assumption was that house prices would continue to climb creating new equity to borrow and rates would stay low. This created a bubble that was bound to pop and low and behold, the bubble is deflating in a BIG way.

I understand what's happening now, but weren't people paying $500K+ for homes in California on $75K or less a year before this current Adjustable Rate garbage came along? How were they able to do it then?

For example:
The monthly payment for a $500,000 house at 7% APR = $3326.51. (for 30 years)
The monthly GROSS on an annual income of $75,000 = $6250. If they pay 1/3 in taxes, that leaves $4,168. Subtract the $3326 from the $4168 and that leaves less than $900 for everything else for the month. How do you Californians do it??

That's not to mention that $500K for a house in California is nothing fancy.

[ohsherrie]

Its nice people are getting a refund but it aint gonna help the economy. This is failed Keynesian economics.

Unless you permamently cut marginal tax rates and reduce the burden that small and medium business face thereby increasing the incentive to invest and creat jobs, no progress will be made - better save that 300 dollar check for the shitstorm ahead

Small and medium businesses don't cut it. That's why we're in this situation now. It was only a matter of time before all of the people who've lost their living wage paying jobs with health care benefits and are now working for slightly more than minimum wage with no health care benefits ran out of money to put back into the economy. All of those 401ks and other various retirement funds had to be liquidated early to live on.

I heard Diane Sawyer ask an economist a while back how the booming(at the time) stock market was helping the average citizen in this country. He answered that it was shoring up their retirement accounts. What he, like so frustratingly many others, didn't seem to take into consideration is that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of average citizens are losing their retirement funds either to crooked accounting by corporations or having to cash them out to live on.

[JrnyScarab]

Its nice people are getting a refund but it aint gonna help the economy. This is failed Keynesian economics.

Unless you permamently cut marginal tax rates and reduce the burden that small and medium business face thereby increasing the incentive to invest and creat jobs, no progress will be made - better save that 300 dollar check for the shitstorm ahead

Small and medium businesses don't cut it. That's why we're in this situation now. It was only a matter of time before all of the people who've lost their living wage paying jobs with health care benefits and are now working for slightly more than minimum wage with no health care benefits ran out of money to put back into the economy. All of those 401ks and other various retirement funds had to be liquidated early to live on.

I heard Diane Sawyer ask an economist a while back how the booming(at the time) stock market was helping the average citizen in this country. He answered that it was shoring up their retirement accounts. What he, like so frustratingly many others, didn't seem to take into consideration is that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of average citizens are losing their retirement funds either to crooked accounting by corporations or having to cash them out to live on.

Never mind cashing out. How about just trying to make something on them! My wife's 401K just lost $1000.00 in the first 20 days this year. My measly retirement money just got back to where it was in 2001 before the LAST crash. And it's really not back because 6 years of inflation have chewed at it. The average Joe is in deep shit with almost no where left to turn. People already work 2 & 3 jobs and both husband & wife have to work to stay ahead. I know, everyone overspends on things they don't need but the cost of the essentials + unexpected medical bills, car repairs, etc. just chews up the majority of your income. If I cut out ALL the spending that I could to cut expenses, maybe I could knock off $500-$600. That's really not that much when your monthly expenses are 10 times that. (I have 3 teenage boys sucking my finances dry!)

[ohsherrie]

Its nice people are getting a refund but it aint gonna help the economy. This is failed Keynesian economics.

Unless you permamently cut marginal tax rates and reduce the burden that small and medium business face thereby increasing the incentive to invest and creat jobs, no progress will be made - better save that 300 dollar check for the shitstorm ahead

Small and medium businesses don't cut it. That's why we're in this situation now. It was only a matter of time before all of the people who've lost their living wage paying jobs with health care benefits and are now working for slightly more than minimum wage with no health care benefits ran out of money to put back into the economy. All of those 401ks and other various retirement funds had to be liquidated early to live on.

I heard Diane Sawyer ask an economist a while back how the booming(at the time) stock market was helping the average citizen in this country. He answered that it was shoring up their retirement accounts. What he, like so frustratingly many others, didn't seem to take into consideration is that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of average citizens are losing their retirement funds either to crooked accounting by corporations or having to cash them out to live on.

Never mind cashing out. How about just trying to make something on them! My wife's 401K just lost $1000.00 in the first 20 days this year. My measly retirement money just got back to where it was in 2001 before the LAST crash. And it's really not back because 6 years of inflation have chewed at it. The average Joe is in deep shit with almost no where left to turn. People already work 2 & 3 jobs and both husband & wife have to work to stay ahead. I know, everyone overspends on things they don't need but the cost of the essentials + unexpected medical bills, car repairs, etc. just chews up the majority of your income. If I cut out ALL the spending that I could to cut expenses, maybe I could knock off $500-$600. That's really not that much when your monthly expenses are 10 times that. (I have 3 teenage boys sucking my finances dry!)

I'm beginning to wonder if you, Dean and I are the only people on this board who see the reality of the economic situation in this country.

We took exactly the same 401k hit in 2001 and had recovered and started to move a little ahead. Then from Dec 31 to Jan 15 lost over $2000. If we were younger maybe we could have rode it out, but with retirement age creeping up on us fast and my husband's job being sent to China, it was time to rollover into an IRA. Now they're lowering the interest rates.

[KenTheDude]

Its nice people are getting a refund but it aint gonna help the economy. This is failed Keynesian economics.

Unless you permamently cut marginal tax rates and reduce the burden that small and medium business face thereby increasing the incentive to invest and creat jobs, no progress will be made - better save that 300 dollar check for the shitstorm ahead

Small and medium businesses don't cut it. That's why we're in this situation now. It was only a matter of time before all of the people who've lost their living wage paying jobs with health care benefits and are now working for slightly more than minimum wage with no health care benefits ran out of money to put back into the economy. All of those 401ks and other various retirement funds had to be liquidated early to live on.

I heard Diane Sawyer ask an economist a while back how the booming(at the time) stock market was helping the average citizen in this country. He answered that it was shoring up their retirement accounts. What he, like so frustratingly many others, didn't seem to take into consideration is that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of average citizens are losing their retirement funds either to crooked accounting by corporations or having to cash them out to live on.

Never mind cashing out. How about just trying to make something on them! My wife's 401K just lost $1000.00 in the first 20 days this year. My measly retirement money just got back to where it was in 2001 before the LAST crash. And it's really not back because 6 years of inflation have chewed at it. The average Joe is in deep shit with almost no where left to turn. People already work 2 & 3 jobs and both husband & wife have to work to stay ahead. I know, everyone overspends on things they don't need but the cost of the essentials + unexpected medical bills, car repairs, etc. just chews up the majority of your income. If I cut out ALL the spending that I could to cut expenses, maybe I could knock off $500-$600. That's really not that much when your monthly expenses are 10 times that. (I have 3 teenage boys sucking my finances dry!)

I'm beginning to wonder if you, Dean and I are the only people on this board who see the reality of the economic situation in this country.

We took exactly the same 401k hit in 2001 and had recovered and started to move a little ahead. Then from Dec 31 to Jan 15 lost over $2000. If we were younger maybe we could have rode it out, but with retirement age creeping up on us fast and my husband's job being sent to China, it was time to rollover into an IRA. Now they're lowering the interest rates.

Not trying to downplay your losses, but I took a $24,000 hit on my 401K this month. Sucks all around really.

[ohsherrie]

Not trying to downplay your losses, but I took a $24,000 hit on my 401K this month. Sucks all around really.

I don't take it as a downplay. I only brought up the 401ks because that's what the media economic pundits have been pushing for so long to keep the superficial economic numbers looking good. Now the base has rotted out and those numbers are failing too. They don't seem to have learned from their mistakes though.

[RedWingFan]

Not trying to downplay your losses, but I took a $24,000 hit on my 401K this month. Sucks all around really.

I don't take it as a downplay. I only brought up the 401ks because that's what the media economic pundits have been pushing for so long to keep the superficial economic numbers looking good. Now the base has rotted out and those numbers are failing too. They don't seem to have learned from their mistakes though.

Well according to my statement. While for the quarter I did lose -5.2% over the past year I'm up 3.2%. Not bad for "the base rotted" out.
I'm increasing my contributions because prices are low. Because they will go back up! They always do.

[ohsherrie]

Not trying to downplay your losses, but I took a $24,000 hit on my 401K this month. Sucks all around really.

I don't take it as a downplay. I only brought up the 401ks because that's what the media economic pundits have been pushing for so long to keep the superficial economic numbers looking good. Now the base has rotted out and those numbers are failing too. They don't seem to have learned from their mistakes though.

Well according to my statement. While for the quarter I did lose -5.2% over the past year I'm up 3.2%. Not bad for "the base rotted" out.
I'm increasing my contributions because prices are low. Because they will go back up! They always do.

I hope that works out for you.

[Rockindeano]

Ken, 500K for a home is a small cubicle. The average median priced home is 850K in socal.

[Ratgirl]

Ken, 500K for a home is a small cubicle. The average median priced home is 850K in socal.

I recall you taking us site seeing when we were there and that totally floored me.
For 850K in FL you can get a freakin Mansion... and yes, I know your feelings about FL. But geesh..

[JrnyScarab]

Not trying to downplay your losses, but I took a $24,000 hit on my 401K this month. Sucks all around really.

I don't take it as a downplay. I only brought up the 401ks because that's what the media economic pundits have been pushing for so long to keep the superficial economic numbers looking good. Now the base has rotted out and those numbers are failing too. They don't seem to have learned from their mistakes though.

Well according to my statement. While for the quarter I did lose -5.2% over the past year I'm up 3.2%. Not bad for "the base rotted" out.
I'm increasing my contributions because prices are low. Because they will go back up! They always do.

Dude, 3.2% for the year doesn't even keep up with inflation. You are actually losing money! The govt. says inflation is now running about 4.2% but believe me, they lie. It's more like 7-8%.

[RedWingFan]

Not trying to downplay your losses, but I took a $24,000 hit on my 401K this month. Sucks all around really.

I don't take it as a downplay. I only brought up the 401ks because that's what the media economic pundits have been pushing for so long to keep the superficial economic numbers looking good. Now the base has rotted out and those numbers are failing too. They don't seem to have learned from their mistakes though.

Well according to my statement. While for the quarter I did lose -5.2% over the past year I'm up 3.2%. Not bad for "the base rotted" out.
I'm increasing my contributions because prices are low. Because they will go back up! They always do.

Dude, 3.2% for the year doesn't even keep up with inflation. You are actually losing money! The govt. says inflation is now running about 4.2% but believe me, they lie. It's more like 7-8%.

I'm not saying 3.2% is great, but the economy has been buzzing along pretty well for the past 5 or 6 years and it's been poo-poo'd all along.

[Clasicrockldy]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

[scarygirl]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

I know. Here it's almost $4. I usually only buy a quart at a time. Lasts me anyway.

[Rhiannon]

5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

Bargain. A dozen Grade-A jumbo (store brand) are at $2.59 right now with name brands at $3.19. This is when you'd be glad to have your own laying hens clucking around.

[Clasicrockldy]

5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

Bargain. A dozen Grade-A jumbo (store brand) are at $2.59 right now with name brands at $3.19. This is when you'd be glad to have your own laying hens clucking around.

I wish I could have hens clucking around, but living in an apartment.. well, that won't work.

[JrnyScarab]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

You SS recipients really get screwed. That is why the govt lies about the real inflation rate. If they acknowledged the real rate, they would have to pay out oodles more in SS raises each year. Our govt sucks.

[scarygirl]

5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

Bargain. A dozen Grade-A jumbo (store brand) are at $2.59 right now with name brands at $3.19. This is when you'd be glad to have your own laying hens clucking around.

Yeah, the Amish are looking better and better. Course I'd have to join a liberal order.

[Clasicrockldy]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

You SS recipients really get screwed. That is why the govt lies about the real inflation rate. If they acknowledged the real rate, they would have to pay out oodles more in SS raises each year. Our govt sucks.

I know. Both of us just got a raise of sorts this month. Big fucking deal. I went from 791.00 to 815.00 a month. Not a whole lot. What is saving me right now is that a program is paying my Medicare monthly premium. If they weren't paying for it, I would be down a 100.00 bucks a month.

[JrnyScarab]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

You SS recipients really get screwed. That is why the govt lies about the real inflation rate. If they acknowledged the real rate, they would have to pay out oodles more in SS raises each year. Our govt sucks.

I know. Both of us just got a raise of sorts this month. Big fucking deal. I went from 791.00 to 815.00 a month. Not a whole lot.

Maybe buy some lottery tickets with it and hope for the big one!

[Clasicrockldy]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

You SS recipients really get screwed. That is why the govt lies about the real inflation rate. If they acknowledged the real rate, they would have to pay out oodles more in SS raises each year. Our govt sucks.

I know. Both of us just got a raise of sorts this month. Big fucking deal. I went from 791.00 to 815.00 a month. Not a whole lot.

Maybe buy some lottery tickets with it and hope for the big one!

Don't I wish! I have to account for every penny spent. There isn't much mad money left over.

[JrnyScarab]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

You SS recipients really get screwed. That is why the govt lies about the real inflation rate. If they acknowledged the real rate, they would have to pay out oodles more in SS raises each year. Our govt sucks.

I know. Both of us just got a raise of sorts this month. Big fucking deal. I went from 791.00 to 815.00 a month. Not a whole lot.

Maybe buy some lottery tickets with it and hope for the big one!

Don't I wish! I have to account for every penny spent. There isn't much mad money left over.

Sorry to hear how tough you have it. I never take for granted what I have and I always worry about losing my job or having trouble finding another good one if something happens. I'm approaching 50 and I hear it doesn't get any easier looking for a good job.

[Clasicrockldy]

My daughter and I get Social Security Disability and we don't pay taxes, so we won't be seeing any of this rebate, or what you want to call it. It takes a big percentage of our SS monies to live every month. I got sticker shock recently at the store by seeing a gallon of milk higher than gas, and 5 dozen eggs going for 10 bucks!

You SS recipients really get screwed. That is why the govt lies about the real inflation rate. If they acknowledged the real rate, they would have to pay out oodles more in SS raises each year. Our govt sucks.

I know. Both of us just got a raise of sorts this month. Big fucking deal. I went from 791.00 to 815.00 a month. Not a whole lot.

Maybe buy some lottery tickets with it and hope for the big one!

Don't I wish! I have to account for every penny spent. There isn't much mad money left over.

Sorry to hear how tough you have it. I never take for granted what I have and I always worry about losing my job or having trouble finding another good one if something happens. I'm approaching 50 and I hear it doesn't get any easier looking for a good job.

Well, I wouldn't know about the job situation after 50. For a time, I used to see seniors manning the counter at the local McD's here. I don't know if they were supplementing their SS checks, or they just wanted to get out of the house. Let me say this though. I have heard that you can work while receiving SS, but it has to be under a certain dollar amount, or your SS check will be affected. And you would have to take pay stubs into your local SS office. What a hassle. I just try and stretch the hell out of my money until the presidents scream.

[JrnyScarab]

I just try and stretch the hell out of my money until the presidents scream. [/b]

LOL!

[larryfromnextdoor]

if the govt issues you a $300 dollar check.. is that considered income? cut out the taxes.. it MIGHT be $200 .. i dont fit into the brackets getting much money back..no kids..

so Your Welcome..

[scarygirl]

if the govt issues you a $300 dollar check.. is that considered income? cut out the taxes.. it MIGHT be $200 .. i dont fit into the brackets getting much money back..no kids..

so Your Welcome..

I thought you had kids? Aren't you married?

[larryfromnextdoor]

if the govt issues you a $300 dollar check.. is that considered income? cut out the taxes.. it MIGHT be $200 .. i dont fit into the brackets getting much money back..no kids..

so Your Welcome..

I thought you had kids? Aren't you married?

,,, no .. no kids, no wife.. if i had a wife , would i have 6000 posts here? i would be doing what all married people do .. make out and laugh all day long..