Bush Administration lied repeatedly to justify war...what a

[Rockindeano]

No, not very well said.


Yeah, a president who doesn't pussy foot around.

Now we are so depleted we can't deal with Iran, N Korea or anyone else. Our strength, which is our allies, is severely weakened.

Yeah, nice job pres.

[Tomulator]

This is profound in that it's easier to blame Bush for their or their husbands job going to China, instead of not putting all of their eggs in one preverbial basket. I'm not responsible for myself. Government is responsible for me just like they were responsible for those poor folks in New Orleans.

You, like most neo-cons, completely lack the empathy gene. I make a very good living for myself between teaching, private lessons, and personal training...but I give a lot of what I make away to people in need. So does most of Europe...Americans like you, however, have a "me-first" and "me-only" attitude.

Please tell me...WHICH country gives the most in aid around the world?

Your ignorance is showing...tighten things up, k?

[RossValoryRocks]

I never said FF or anyone on this board was a wife beater. I described a kind of fanatic, militaristic warmongerers who votes republican. I have no idea if he or anyone else on here fits that profile. I certainly hope not. Was that statement a bit overblown, hell yeah, but no more so than when I was told by a religious conservative republican on here that my kids could rot in the ground.

In fact I don't think I've specifically named anyone on here as fitting any of my descriptions of what I see as being faulty thinking. I'm also not trying to talk down to anyone. I really don't know why you think I am. I'm just doing the same thing everyone else is in this thread. I'm giving my opinions. I honestly believe there has to be something wrong with the thinking process of someone who can't see or won't believe the truth about what the Bush administration has done to this country. Like Daniel said the facts have been right here in front of all of our eyes for anybody willing to see them for almost 8 years. I in no way meant that as a personal insult to anybody, but I can't help it if I hit home with someone.

I'm not saying I think there's something wrong with everybody who is republican or even that there's something wrong with all of the republican ideas, I happen to agree with many of them. I disagree with their big four though, military, economy, abortion, and religion in government. My comments in this thread however have been referring to Bush and his administration, not the party in general.

Daniel, Dean and I have all been called various unflattering names and accused of absurdly exaggerated thought processes based on the conservatives' generalized ideas of what a liberal is. I think I was even accused of promoting genocide on here one time because I believe in a woman's right to choose.

Nice words, but you 7wishes and others are using so many generalities about "republicans" that is is hard NOT to get caught in the wash. Personally I am a libertarian. Small governement, the least amount of taxes possible to keep roads and schools open, defend the country and let people make their own decisions about how to live their lives.

My big thing is the economy. Yes I make a good living, but why should I pay more than you do in taxes? I work hard to earn what I do, I should get to keep more of it. Our tax system is almost word for word what Karl Marx advocated. Also I shouldn't have to pay for the other people's sloth and ineptitude. If a women or man decides to go out and have unprotected sex and has 5 kids out of wedlock, how is that my responsibility to pay for, even in part? How is that the government's responsibility to pay for?

Lower taxes means that business and the common citizen have money to invest which creates more jobs, which means higher tax revenues to the government. It's a proven fact. Contrary to what 7Wishes says, that is the core of "Reaganomics" and it almost tripled the amount of revenue coming into the Federal government in the 80's. If we could just get congress to not spend like a drunken sailor on his first night in port we would be alright.

I agree on abortion. While I find in morally reprehensible, I am not judge nor jury in this case and the government shouldn't be either, I believe God is. So they will face his judgement.

The Military...well I was in the military, so I have different perspective than you do. I will leave it at that.

Now something you said piqued my interest, you said the "facts" have been their to see? Who's facts? Can you give me sources and citations? Using 7Wishes criteria, from unbiased sources please that aren't liberal "think tanks" and such?

Truth, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You truth and facts are much different than my truth and facts because they are all subjective

[Tomulator]

So you honestly believe that people who do not think like you are morons and beat their wives? Is that kind of hatred healthy? It certainly isn't rational. But... if you're comfortable with who you are, so be it. I sure don't think much of you, though --- and it has nothing to do with what you believe politically.

Nice try but no. I don't think all people who don't think like me are morons. I only think those who still support Bush are.

I really don't care what you think of me for whatever reason. I'm very comfortable with who I am. Can you honestly say the same, and do it Patiently?

Yep. I don't treat people like crap, so ya, I'm good.

Same here. Good.

Plus...I have the truth of "knowing" on my side...

[7 Wishes]

Some valid points there, RVR...I have to run, but I will say this: Reagan actually proposed $350 billion MORE in spending in his eight years in office than was actually voted in by the "Spendocrat" Congress.

The other issue is just the lies. There is irrefutable evidence that Bush & Co. knew there was NO connection between Iraq and 9/11 and yet they declared war based on those pretenses. This has NOTHING to do with Clinton. Bush made Tenet cook the books...they KNEW they were "misrepresenting" the truth.

If Bush is such a great anti-Terrorism President, why the fuck did he give up on Bin Laden and attack and unprovoked Iraq (that again, they knew had NO WMD's). Seems like a poor follow-through at best. Why do you guys insist on giving Bush accolades for "just missing" Bin Laden (and he seems to have given up that search, BTW) but berate Clinton for exactly the same thing?

Anyway...I have a number of talking points I want to address tonight when I get back...Dan's post about Clinton's response to Bin Laden in 1996 was troubling to me, and it has changed my perspective on Clinton's foreign policy successes. THERE. You see? I am more than capable of learning new information, incorporating it into my belief system, and being intellectually malleable. So much for the assertion that liberals are "thick-minded morons" as has been put on the table in earlier threads.

[Tomulator]

I never said FF or anyone on this board was a wife beater. I described a kind of fanatic, militaristic warmongerers who votes republican. I have no idea if he or anyone else on here fits that profile. I certainly hope not. Was that statement a bit overblown, hell yeah, but no more so than when I was told by a religious conservative republican on here that my kids could rot in the ground.

In fact I don't think I've specifically named anyone on here as fitting any of my descriptions of what I see as being faulty thinking. I'm also not trying to talk down to anyone. I really don't know why you think I am. I'm just doing the same thing everyone else is in this thread. I'm giving my opinions. I honestly believe there has to be something wrong with the thinking process of someone who can't see or won't believe the truth about what the Bush administration has done to this country. Like Daniel said the facts have been right here in front of all of our eyes for anybody willing to see them for almost 8 years. I in no way meant that as a personal insult to anybody, but I can't help it if I hit home with someone.

I'm not saying I think there's something wrong with everybody who is republican or even that there's something wrong with all of the republican ideas, I happen to agree with many of them. I disagree with their big four though, military, economy, abortion, and religion in government. My comments in this thread however have been referring to Bush and his administration, not the party in general.

Daniel, Dean and I have all been called various unflattering names and accused of absurdly exaggerated thought processes based on the conservatives' generalized ideas of what a liberal is. I think I was even accused of promoting genocide on here one time because I believe in a woman's right to choose.

Let's see...

I have great job.
Make good money
Never go hungry
Have not had a terrorist attack in my country since 9/11
I have very very many freedoms (e.g., religion, speech, pursuit of happiness)
I have a home
Have 2 cars
Have a GREAT family...2 kids...a dog...a cat...a bunch of guitars...amps...music...

Yeah...you're right...Bush has really screwed up my life.

[Tomulator]

[quote="7 Wishes"]The other issue is just the lies. There is irrefutable evidence that Bush & Co. knew there was NO connection between Iraq and 9/11 and yet they declared war based on those pretenses. This has NOTHING to do with Clinton. Bush made Tenet cook the books...they KNEW they were "misrepresenting" the truth. [quote]


Bush and company NEVER said we were going to war because Iraq was directly behind 9/11.

His contention was that we were going to war over there to "prevent" ANOTHER 9/11 from happening.

See the difference?

[SteveForever]

[quote="7 Wishes"]
If Bush is such a great anti-Terrorism President, why the fuck did he give up on Bin Laden and attack and unprovoked Iraq (that again, they knew had NO WMD's). Seems like a poor follow-through at best. Why do you guys insist on giving Bush accolades for "just missing" Bin Laden (and he seems to have given up that search, BTW) but berate Clinton for exactly the same thing?



Dan, coming from a family of several FBI agents that are currently serving in Afghanistan and other places , you are so far off here that its pathetic.
Giving up on bin Laden? uh, right. you really know what you are talking about.

[Rockindeano]

If Bush is such a great anti-Terrorism President, why the fuck did he give up on Bin Laden and attack and unprovoked Iraq (that again, they knew had NO WMD's). Seems like a poor follow-through at best. Why do you guys insist on giving Bush accolades for "just missing" Bin Laden (and he seems to have given up that search, BTW) but berate Clinton for exactly the same thing?

Dan, coming from a family of several FBI agents that are currently serving in Afghanistan and other places , you are so far off here that its pathetic.
Giving up on bin Laden? uh, right. you really know what you are talking about.

No, he is correct. We have given up on bin Laden. Even Musharrif has given up on him. You seriously want us to believe the FBI/CIA cannot find the worlds most wanted man? Haha, ok. They could find me and the exact aisle I am in at the market in 10 mins. They can find him, but he is worth more alive. I wouldn't brag too much if I were in the FBI.

[SteveForever]

No, he is correct. We have given up on bin Laden. Even Musharrif has given up on him. You seriously want us to believe the FBI/CIA cannot find the worlds most wanted man? Haha, ok. They could find me and the exact aisle I am in at the market in 10 mins. They can find him, but he is worth more alive. I wouldn't brag too much if I were in the FBI.

Incorrect. 100% incorrect.

[Rockindeano]

Just because you have family in the FBI, which by the way you shouldn't be telling folks on a public MB, you post out of loyalty.

Folks, our Intel sucks in this Country.

Also, it is ok to question our Government you know. Don't have to wrap ourselves in Old Glory all the time.

Ok Liz, floor me with some GOP military FBI spun drivel.

[Rockindeano]

Instead of typing, "Incorrect 100%" why not give me a fucking link or a personal take?

[SteveForever]

Just because you have family in the FBI, which by the way you shouldn't be telling folks on a public MB, you post out of loyalty.

Folks, our Intel sucks in this Country.

Also, it is ok to question our Government you know. Don't have to wrap ourselves in Old Glory all the time.

Ok Liz, floor me with some GOP military FBI spun drivel.

Its no secret that we have FBI agents in our family, you are so clueless.
Have fun storming the castle at Lowe's Dean or driving the train or whatever it is that you do, you're the last person that should be giving advice.

[Rockindeano]

Just because you have family in the FBI, which by the way you shouldn't be telling folks on a public MB, you post out of loyalty.

Folks, our Intel sucks in this Country.

Also, it is ok to question our Government you know. Don't have to wrap ourselves in Old Glory all the time.

Ok Liz, floor me with some GOP military FBI spun drivel.

Its no secret that we have FBI agents in our family, you are so clueless.
Have fun storming the castle at Lowe's Dean or driving the train or whatever it is that you do, you're the last person that should be giving advice.

Oh really Princess? What is it YOU do? Ever fire a military issued gun? Ever go to a war? Ever work for a presidential politician?

I am smarter than you in every shape of the word, and more knowledgeable too.

Like I said, I could give two shits if you have FBI agents in the family. I want to know why you think we are hot on Osamas ass? I bet you a million dollars if Hillary were president right now, your tone would be inverted.

Kiss my ass, unless you bring a take to the table. Then I will respect you.

[SteveForever]

Then I will respect you.

ha! I could care less what you think of me, I think I've made that clear several times.


I've stated facts and you hurl insults when you have nothing left, have fun getting wasted...again.

[Rockindeano]

What fact? The statement, "I have family in the FBI in Afghanistan?" Theoretically, it's more of a CIA jurisdiction, not an FBI one Liz, and yes, I will have fun drinking, jacking off and having fun.

I notice you NEVER once answered any of my questions either.

[Tomulator]

Oh boys...calm now...no reason to escalate things here...

so...

what do you both think of SP's latest appearance at Extreme's recording sessions?

They said he "looks great"!! (I'm not gay, btw...just trying to calm the situation a bit)