OT--- tax rebates...

[lights1961]

how bout this... keep the payroll tax out of the paychecks for the next 6 months....
that would be awesome, no one would want to pay taxes ever again!!
Or it would make us understand how much waste there is---or keep the
payroll tax out and make us pay taxes quarterly.

Rick

[The Sushi Hunter]

I used to go to this hair stylist who would tell me how she had so many clients who lived in section 8 housing who would schedule all day $600 chemical hair straightening appointments. They live with thier boyfriends/baby's daddy but don't marry them or get jobs so they can get all the free cash. How does this HELP anyone? It's a scam in so many cases and this type of fraud needs to be dealth with. Instead, California politicians just want to raise taxes even higher and give away more money. It's insanity. I would work 3 jobs before I ever took a handout from anyone, but today's culture seems to embrace and reward those without the motivation to work hard.

Now you know why democrats win California votes. You just described what it means to be a democrat.

[Rockindeano]

how bout this... keep the payroll tax out of the paychecks for the next 6 months....
that would be awesome, no one would want to pay taxes ever again!!
Or it would make us understand how much waste there is---or keep the
payroll tax out and make us pay taxes quarterly.

Rick

Not possible. The government uses our money to operate. Without payroll taxes, say goodbye to good roads, public transit, libraries, fire and police the whole works. Oh yeah, that little fight we are in over in the Towel Headed Sandbox costs us 275 million dollars...per day.

[ohsherrie]

I think if you are naive enough to belive that you are guaranteed a job for life, you get what you deserve. I've been forunate to survive many rounds of "work force reductions" at my company, but if it happens to me, I'll deal with it and move on. I'm certainly not going to sit around whining about the government. How does that help me or my family? You learn new skills, you move out of the are if you have to -- it is YOUR responsibility to manage your own life. I just can't wrap my head around the concept that if I lose my job, it's the government's fault and Hillary Clinton is going to make it all better. That is pretty stupid.

And thinking it's as simple as what you just stated is ignorance.

Are you really unable to understand the real implications of good paying jobs being sent out of the country and replaced with jobs that don't pay a living wage? I'm not talking about downsizing. I'm talking about plant closings. Plants that employ 500 - 1000 people within small communities all over this country are closing putting thousands of people at a time out of work.

Those "technical jobs" that I hear the politicians say they're going to train the people for, they don't exist in the areas where these plants are closing unless you count telemarketing as being technical. The only jobs that exist are in small business. Those families, all in one area, whose mortgages, vehicle loans, lifestyles were based on an income of $50,000+ a year are now reduced in most cases to at the most $20,000- a year with no benefits. You don't make a $1,000 mortgage payment on $20,000 a year. You don't make a $500 payment on recent model SUV or mini-van on $20,000. You barely feed and cloth your family on that. If one of your kids ends up in the hospital you don't even do that unless you can qualify for medicaid, but then I suppose you think this person's child should die and rot in the ground rather than have one of your tax dollars pay for the medicaid.

Let's say this is happening to 800 families in a community of 15,000. How do you think the economy of that little town absorbs a blow like that? You say they should move and find something. When this same scenario is happening in manufacturing towns all over this country that's a pretty bleak prospect. Maybe you mean like in the grapes of wrath, they should just pack up everything the own in a truck and drive until they find some work?

Now, back the the effect these plant closings are having on the communities they're happening in, when you add together all of the communities all over the country that are experiencing this, and add to that the major industries in the cities that are downsizing and closing altogether so they can't absorb all the people from these small towns that might come there looking for work, what do you think it does to the grass roots base of this country's economy? How the hell do you think we got in the mess we're in right now? Oh the stock market was looking good, and the unemployment figures looked good, but it was a false representation of what was actually happening to the economic base. When people don't have money to spend on goods and services they can't put money back into the economy. Many of them can't afford their houses, they're trading their vehicles down or just letting them be repo'd, and they can't afford to keep their 401k accounts. They're dumping houses and stocks by the thousands. Eventually it has to fall like a house of cards.

Have you ever been out of your little comfort zone? Do you really have a clue about the reality of the situation people in this country are in? Did you think all those commuters you see all over SF, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, DC, Houston, etc. during rush hour are representative of most of the country? My guess is yes you did, and you don't want to know the reality. You just want to "manage your life". Good luck with that.

[Rockindeano]

I used to go to this hair stylist who would tell me how she had so many clients who lived in section 8 housing who would schedule all day $600 chemical hair straightening appointments. They live with thier boyfriends/baby's daddy but don't marry them or get jobs so they can get all the free cash. How does this HELP anyone? It's a scam in so many cases and this type of fraud needs to be dealth with. Instead, California politicians just want to raise taxes even higher and give away more money. It's insanity. I would work 3 jobs before I ever took a handout from anyone, but today's culture seems to embrace and reward those without the motivation to work hard.

Now you know why democrats win California votes. You just described what it means to be a democrat.

So only democrats live like this huh?

Look up Rush Limbaugh. He too did this, for a very long time.

You can't legislate morality.

[Rockindeano]

Actually Barb, California is raising taxes so we can build the 230 mph bullet train from San Diego to the Bay Area. 10 billion is what it'll cost. Airlines will battle this to death. SW Air is going to be in trouble.

[Barb]

You just want to "manage your life". Good luck with that.

I don't rely on luck.

[RossValoryRocks]

I think if you are naive enough to belive that you are guaranteed a job for life, you get what you deserve. I've been forunate to survive many rounds of "work force reductions" at my company, but if it happens to me, I'll deal with it and move on. I'm certainly not going to sit around whining about the government. How does that help me or my family? You learn new skills, you move out of the are if you have to -- it is YOUR responsibility to manage your own life. I just can't wrap my head around the concept that if I lose my job, it's the government's fault and Hillary Clinton is going to make it all better. That is pretty stupid.

And thinking it's as simple as what you just stated is ignorance.

Are you really unable to understand the real implications of good paying jobs being sent out of the country and replaced with jobs that don't pay a living wage? I'm not talking about downsizing. I'm talking about plant closings. Plants that employ 500 - 1000 people within small communities all over this country are closing putting thousands of people at a time out of work.

Those "technical jobs" that I hear the politicians say they're going to train the people for, they don't exist in the areas where these plants are closing unless you count telemarketing as being technical. The only jobs that exist are in small business. Those families, all in one area, whose mortgages, vehicle loans, lifestyles were based on an income of $50,000+ a year are now reduced in most cases to at the most $20,000- a year with no benefits. You don't make a $1,000 mortgage payment on $20,000 a year. You don't make a $500 payment on recent model SUV or mini-van on $20,000. You barely feed and cloth your family on that. If one of your kids ends up in the hospital you don't even do that unless you can qualify for medicaid, but then I suppose you think this person's child should die and rot in the ground rather than have one of your tax dollars pay for the medicaid.

Let's say this is happening to 800 families in a community of 15,000. How do you think the economy of that little town absorbs a blow like that? You say they should move and find something. When this same scenario is happening in manufacturing towns all over this country that's a pretty bleak prospect. Maybe you mean like in the grapes of wrath, they should just pack up everything the own in a truck and drive until they find some work?

Now, back the the effect these plant closings are having on the communities they're happening in, when you add together all of the communities all over the country that are experiencing this, and add to that the major industries in the cities that are downsizing and closing altogether so they can't absorb all the people from these small towns that might come there looking for work, what do you think it does to the grass roots base of this country's economy? How the hell do you think we got in the mess we're in right now? Oh the stock market was looking good, and the unemployment figures looked good, but it was a false representation of what was actually happening to the economic base. When people don't have money to spend on goods and services they can't put money back into the economy. Many of them can't afford their houses, they're trading their vehicles down or just letting them be repo'd, and they can't afford to keep their 401k accounts. They're dumping houses and stocks by the thousands. Eventually it has to fall like a house of cards.

Have you ever been out of your little comfort zone? Do you really have a clue about the reality of the situation people in this country are in? Did you think all those commuters you see all over SF, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, DC, Houston, etc. during rush hour are representative of most of the country? My guess is yes you did, and you don't want to know the reality. You just want to "manage your life". Good luck with that.

I'll say it again...why is it the governments responsibility to ensure any of us of a job, healthcare, and other benefits etc?

[Barb]

Actually Barb, California is raising taxes so we can build the 230 mph bullet train from San Diego to the Bay Area. 10 billion is what it'll cost. Airlines will battle this to death. SW Air is going to be in trouble.

Do we really need to pay MORE than 10% of our income to this stupid state? Some states manage to survive with NO state income tax at all, but in California, it's never enough and cutting spending doesn't occur to anyone. Arnold tries to cut spending and all hell breaks loose. As soon as my kids are grown and out of school, we are leaving - just like the rest of the overtaxed people and businesses.

I like the bullet train plan and actually wouldn't mind tax dollars being allocated to it, no new taxes!!! Arnold did the right thing when he repealed the TRIPLING of the car registration tax and the Democrats STILL want it put back in place. It should not cost a person hundreds of dollars to register their damn car! Cut spending FOR ONCE!!

[ohsherrie]

I used to go to this hair stylist who would tell me how she had so many clients who lived in section 8 housing who would schedule all day $600 chemical hair straightening appointments. They live with thier boyfriends/baby's daddy but don't marry them or get jobs so they can get all the free cash. How does this HELP anyone? It's a scam in so many cases and this type of fraud needs to be dealth with. Instead, California politicians just want to raise taxes even higher and give away more money. It's insanity. I would work 3 jobs before I ever took a handout from anyone, but today's culture seems to embrace and reward those without the motivation to work hard.

Oh all of that happens and I don't like it any more than you do. I used to manage a manufacturing plant(for a company that's now in Mexico) and I actually had new employees quit before the completed their training curves saying they'd go have another baby to get more money before they'd work that hard.

The welfare system in this country is a disaster and it infuriates me. I agree that the working people shouldn't pay others not to work, especially when it's a damned illegal immigrant. I also don't think the working people should pay for a war that Bush's croinies are getting rich on.

You just described what it means to be a democrat.

Spoken like a true Bush republican.

[Rockindeano]

Actually Barb, California is raising taxes so we can build the 230 mph bullet train from San Diego to the Bay Area. 10 billion is what it'll cost. Airlines will battle this to death. SW Air is going to be in trouble.

Do we really need to pay MORE than 10% of our income to this stupid state? Some states manage to survive with NO state income tax at all, but in California, it's never enough and cutting spending doesn't occur to anyone. Arnold tries to cut spending and all hell breaks loose. As soon as my kids are grown and out of school, we are leaving - just like the rest of the overtaxed people and businesses.

I like the bullet train plan and actually wouldn't mind tax dollars being allocated to it, no new taxes!!! Arnold did the right thing when he repealed the TRIPLING of the car registration tax and the Democrats STILL want it put back in place. It should not cost a person hundreds of dollars to register their damn car! Cut spending FOR ONCE!!

Well Arnold is releasing prisoners early, to save money. Perhaps Calif is too big? I always liked the idea of NoCal(red), and socal(blue).

Barb, you may want to leave, and I agree with you, it's expensive here, but there are a lot of hot chicks here. Sure that won't change your mind?

[Barb]

Actually Barb, California is raising taxes so we can build the 230 mph bullet train from San Diego to the Bay Area. 10 billion is what it'll cost. Airlines will battle this to death. SW Air is going to be in trouble.

Do we really need to pay MORE than 10% of our income to this stupid state? Some states manage to survive with NO state income tax at all, but in California, it's never enough and cutting spending doesn't occur to anyone. Arnold tries to cut spending and all hell breaks loose. As soon as my kids are grown and out of school, we are leaving - just like the rest of the overtaxed people and businesses.

I like the bullet train plan and actually wouldn't mind tax dollars being allocated to it, no new taxes!!! Arnold did the right thing when he repealed the TRIPLING of the car registration tax and the Democrats STILL want it put back in place. It should not cost a person hundreds of dollars to register their damn car! Cut spending FOR ONCE!!

Well Arnold is releasing prisoners early, to save money. Perhaps Calif is too big? I always liked the idea of NoCal(red), and socal(blue).

Barb, you may want to leave, and I agree with you, it's expensive here, but there are a lot of hot chicks here. Sure that won't change your mind?

Ya, that's not a good idea either (releasing the prisoners). Getting rid of the illegal population would help tremendously, but that's not an option, is it? I love my home state for the beaches and the rest of it's beauty, so hot chicks can't sway me at all. Sorry.

[Shadowsong]

RAISED ON WELFARE



US pays for babies
GEt pregnant
it's your ticket to get on the dole...Andrew will know this one...
suck the economy dry
Breed generations of leeches
with minimum education & morality skewed to the bario.
then give them a few more incentives
& slam dunk
you got the makings of a land slide
that's if you can get them to vote...

Think about it
keep them as ignorant well fed on the state slaves
Soon they will be the majority
breeding like cockroaches.

LOL

Just a thought
not all that receive assistance are abusing it
They make them work now
sweep the subways & parks
They even offer job related education
Not glorious to be on public assiatance
scrubbing toilets for min wage
but if you can stay barefoot & pregnant
you got a ticket to ride...

OOOOH & those who have to pay taxes
can foot the bill to "educate the welfare offspring"

Registration fees go to maintaining roads & things
although they are socking it to us in gas prices & taxes
Alot of $ goes into running a state
You got fire & police dept's & sanitation
They make a good wage
What's fair is fair
Then you have the biodiesel guys who drain Mcdonalds used oil bins
& put it in there cars to scent the state with french fries & burger...


Do you know it costs some ungodly yearly $ to keep a thief in prison?
So either you pay in taxes to keep them there (why? because people like to get paid)
or you pay with your life & property when Arnold sets them loose to save a buck!!!

[ohsherrie]

I'll say it again...why is it the governments responsibility to ensure any of us of a job, healthcare, and other benefits etc?

Do you know how totally asinine that statement is at this point? If they'd never gotten involved in manipulating the economy in the first place maybe you could make a case like that. As it is, the government is directly responsible for the mess we're in. They made the economic decisions and passed the legislation that put us in this situation.

They've paid billions of dollars in CORPORATE WELLFARE and given millions in tax cuts to companies so they can move their operations to China or Mexico. But you don't think they have any responsibility to the people in this country whose jobs were taken away? It started years ago when they started letting the cheaper, and in some cases better quality, foreign imports flood into this country comparitively tariff free from countries that wouldn't allow us to export to them or charged cost prohibative tariffs. That undercut American manufacturing right from the getgo and it's been going downhill ever since.

Farming and manufacturing were the backbone that this country was built on, and now besides closing down the manufacturing they've also manipulated farming to the point where a small farmer can make more(but not a living wage) by taking the money the government pays him to let his land set fallow so the big corporate farms can have their allotments of what ever crops the government tells them to grow to regulate the prices. That's another of their economic manipulations.

Health care, do you really not realize that the outrageous healthcare costs in this country are due directly to legislative favors given to drug and insurance companies?

Yeah, keeping the government out of our business would have been a good idea, but it's way too late for that now unless they can somehow fix the mess they've made and then leave us alone.

[RossValoryRocks]

I'll say it again...why is it the governments responsibility to ensure any of us of a job, healthcare, and other benefits etc?

Do you know how totally asinine that statement is at this point? If they'd never gotten involved in manipulating the economy in the first place maybe you could make a case like that. As it is, the government is directly responsible for the mess we're in. They made the economic decisions and passed the legislation that put us in this situation.

They've paid billions of dollars in CORPORATE WELLFARE and given millions in tax cuts to companies so they can move their operations to China or Mexico. But you don't think they have any responsibility to the people in this country whose jobs were taken away? It started years ago when they started letting the cheaper, and in some cases better quality, foreign imports flood into this country comparitively tariff free from countries that wouldn't allow us to export to them or charged cost prohibative tariffs. That undercut American manufacturing right from the getgo and it's been going downhill ever since.

Farming and manufacturing were the backbone that this country was built on, and now besides closing down the manufacturing they've also manipulated farming to the point where a small farmer can make more(but not a living wage) by taking the money the government pays him to let his land set fallow so the big corporate farms can have their allotments of what ever crops the government tells them to grow to regulate the prices. That's another of their economic manipulations.

Health care, do you really not realize that the outrageous healthcare costs in this country are due directly to legislative favors given to drug and insurance companies?

Yeah, keeping the government out of our business would have been a good idea, but it's way too late for that now unless they can somehow fix the mess they've made and then leave us alone.

Ok you've made a lot of claims here. Please list and cite your sources for your contentions about government intervention in economics.

If you go on some ad hominem rant I will just ignore the blather and move on. Debate correctly or do not debate at all.

[jrnychick]

There sure are a lot of interesting opinions here about this topic!

In my opinion, the tax rebate is putting a band-aid on a hemorraging wound. Honestly, if you bought a house with an arm knowing full well that you would need to refinance into a fixed rate a few years down the road, it's your own fault for not doing your homework! It's not the government's fault that you didn't pay close enough attention or think about how the decision would affect you in the future. The party's over. I look at MANY of the people I know who are in financial trouble now, and most of them do not live within their means. Many of them have $20+ in credit card debt, have houses that they really can't afford, and have 2 car payments. My husband and I have $0 credit card debt, no car payments, and a low, fixed-rate mortgage. We have quite a bit of money invested. Neither of us work for big companies--my husband has never worked for a company with a 401K. ALL of our retirement money is what WE have put aside ourselves. There's no company matching, etc. We've had to pay for independent health insurance since 2000. How do we do it? If we can't afford something, we don't buy it! We have credit cards, and if we need to buy something (like a new furnace) during a low-income period, we cut back elsewhere. We also have reserves set aside for a rainy day. We don't go out for lunches or expensive dinners. We cook at home 6 nights a week. We really need to get new family room couches, for example, but we've had some other expenses so the couches have to wait.

I completely understand when people are desperate and have something catastrophic happen, such as losing a job or having a sick child that they get into financial trouble. However, I think the vast majority of people who are in financial trouble right now are the ones who didn't know when to put the credit card away.

[ohsherrie]

Ok you've made a lot of claims here. Please list and cite your sources for your contentions about government intervention in economics.

If you go on some ad hominem rant I will just ignore the blather and move on. Debate correctly or do not debate at all.

I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to go find this information for you and I don't really give a fuck if you read my posts or believe them. I know what I know and it's not my job to educate you.

[ohsherrie]

There sure are a lot of interesting opinions here about this topic!

In my opinion, the tax rebate is putting a band-aid on a hemorraging wound. Honestly, if you bought a house with an arm knowing full well that you would need to refinance into a fixed rate a few years down the road, it's your own fault for not doing your homework! It's not the government's fault that you didn't pay close enough attention or think about how the decision would affect you in the future. The party's over. I look at MANY of the people I know who are in financial trouble now, and most of them do not live within their means. Many of them have $20+ in credit card debt, have houses that they really can't afford, and have 2 car payments. My husband and I have $0 credit card debt, no car payments, and a low, fixed-rate mortgage. We have quite a bit of money invested. Neither of us work for big companies--my husband has never worked for a company with a 401K. ALL of our retirement money is what WE have put aside ourselves. There's no company matching, etc. We've had to pay for independent health insurance since 2000. How do we do it? If we can't afford something, we don't buy it! We have credit cards, and if we need to buy something (like a new furnace) during a low-income period, we cut back elsewhere. We also have reserves set aside for a rainy day. We don't go out for lunches or expensive dinners. We cook at home 6 nights a week. We really need to get new family room couches, for example, but we've had some other expenses so the couches have to wait.

I completely understand when people are desperate and have something catastrophic happen, such as losing a job or having a sick child that they get into financial trouble. However, I think the vast majority of people who are in financial trouble right now are the ones who didn't know when to put the credit card away.

Your life and financial situation sounds very much like mine except that my house is paid for. But then again my husband and I are both 58 years old. We also grow our own vegatables and I home can and freeze them. I've also made many of our clothes over the years including my daughters' wedding dresses.

There are a lot of people who are in the shape they're in because of poor money management. There are also a lot who really are doing the best they can and it's just not good enough.

[Moon Beam]

They make them work now
sweep the subways & parks
They even offer job related education
Not glorious to be on public assiatance
scrubbing toilets for min wage

I would do it and feel I had at least earned the monthly cheque.
Most in my forum of folks have been blessed and not needed social assistance.
Hopefully our children & ourselves will never need that help.

My Hubby cleans toilets for a living and it shames me none to say so.
Mind you his wage is way better than what those are given to live on
through social services but people seem to look down on that job.

I think working for your cheque is a good decision made by those
who decided it be so.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Ok you've made a lot of claims here. Please list and cite your sources for your contentions about government intervention in economics.

If you go on some ad hominem rant I will just ignore the blather and move on. Debate correctly or do not debate at all.

I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to go find this information for you and I don't really give a fuck if you read my posts or believe them. I know what I know and it's not my job to educate you.

So basically you have formed your opinion but have no resources to share with us as how you came to your opinion. If this is incorrect, please share with us the resources. Try not to list the ones that fall under the same category as how our government is hiding space aliens in area 51, or that Bush ordered 9-11 to gain the support of the American people to go in and hand Saddam baby his ass.

[ohsherrie]

Can I tell you all something......
My Father worked all his life until he had his hip replaced when I was 19 and
was then stricken with cancer and leukemia and not able to work for the remainder of his life.
He missed out on his benefits and pension because he was just shy of ten years in at general Motors.
He lived on welfare for over 7 yrs and that paid him 750 bucks a month, not even enough to make rent here.
A couple years before he died he won his settlement and had to pay every penny back to Social Services
even though he had paid into all his working life.

I believe someone mentioned they are sour about some being on assistance
and staying up all night serving there own wishes.
Well your right, my Father did stay up all night but he didn't spend it doing whatever
he wanted, he spent it puking from the pills and chemotherapy that he had to pay
out of pocket for.
Thank god for our family that helped him get those meds that allowed him a longer life with us.

Not all fit into your little files of how fares should fly.

I was so wrapped up in my arguments that I only just saw this Gerene. I've seen situations like your father went through. It's hurtful when people belittle others who get into a bad place though no fault of their own. I wish there weren't so many people who take advantage of the systems available and give the people who really need them a bad name.

[Rockindeano]

My Hubby cleans toilets for a living and it shames me none to say so.

He majored in the Custodial Arts?

From now on, call him a shit extracting Engineer.

[ohsherrie]

Ok you've made a lot of claims here. Please list and cite your sources for your contentions about government intervention in economics.

If you go on some ad hominem rant I will just ignore the blather and move on. Debate correctly or do not debate at all.

I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to go find this information for you and I don't really give a fuck if you read my posts or believe them. I know what I know and it's not my job to educate you.

So basically you have formed your opinion but have no resources to share with us as how you came to your opinion. If this is incorrect, please share with us the resources. Try not to list the ones that fall under the same category as how our government is hiding space aliens in area 51, or that Bush ordered 9-11 to gain the support of the American people to go in and hand Saddam baby his ass.

The resources through which I learned of the trade imbalance beginning in the late '70s were the legitimate, main stream news media that we had back then. Believe it or not the media used to report the news rather than manipulate and sensationalize it. I lived those times. I was in the work force and into the politics of this country before many of you were in middle school. That information isn't immediately available to me 30 years later and I'm not going to Google around trying to find proof for people with their heads so far up Bush's ass that they wouldn't see it right in front of them anyway. The stuff on the corporate welfare and tax cuts is probably more easy to find but if you're interested you can find it yourself. You're not important enough to me to put the effort into it. You won't though because you're comfortable in your ignorance.

[Moon Beam]

I was so wrapped up in my arguments that I only just saw this Gerene. I've seen situations like your father went through. It's hurtful when people belittle others who get into a bad place though no fault of their own. I wish there weren't so many people who take advantage of the systems available and give the people who really need them a bad name.

I agree with the anger over those that abuse the helping hand.

You know what's funny to me in all this.....
People seemed to be cuddling their cash but my Father who had little for
most of his life always gave to the less fortunate and always tried to nail
his kind giving ways into my Sister and I.


Personally I would rather be thankful for what I have than cry about how others live their lives.

Most would say make them work for what they get and that seems a good way to
pacify both sides of the picket fence.

Though yet again it's not the one answer that gives solution to all.

Thank you for seeing it from both sides Senorita.

[RedWingFan]

Can I tell you all something......
My Father worked all his life until he had his hip replaced when I was 19 and
was then stricken with cancer and leukemia and not able to work for the remainder of his life.
He missed out on his benefits and pension because he was just shy of ten years in at general Motors.
He lived on welfare for over 7 yrs and that paid him 750 bucks a month, not even enough to make rent here.
A couple years before he died he won his settlement and had to pay every penny back to Social Services
even though he had paid into all his working life.

I believe someone mentioned they are sour about some being on assistance
and staying up all night serving there own wishes.
Well your right, my Father did stay up all night but he didn't spend it doing whatever
he wanted, he spent it puking from the pills and chemotherapy that he had to pay
out of pocket for.
Thank god for our family that helped him get those meds that allowed him a longer life with us.

Not all fit into your little files of how fares should fly.

Sorry to hear that Moonie. I know how you feel though. After my father-in-law got laid off over 3 years ago, he devoted full time to his landscaping business. He took to trimming trees in the winter to make ends meat and promptly fell out of a tree shattering his right femur and fracturing his hip. They had to put in a metal rod into his remaining bone. Just a couple weeks ago that rod broke and they had to replace it with a thicker rod. He's pushing 60 and can't get hired here. It's tough enough in this unfriendly business state for an able bodied younger person.
It angers the hell out of me thinking of all the wasted gov't spending that goes to worthless programs than to those who could use the help.

[ohsherrie]

It's tough enough in this unfriendly business state for an able bodied younger person.
It angers the hell out of me thinking of all the wasted gov't spending that goes to worthless programs than to those who could use the help.

That may be the first statement you've made that I agree with you on. As a 58 yr old woman whose 58 yr old husband's employer recently went to China I know first hand how hard it is.

We may not agree on which programs are worthless, but at least I see a little bit of a heart in that post.

[ohsherrie]

Thank you for seeing it from both sides Senorita.

Some may not believe it, but I always try to see both sides before I decide which to stand for.

[piecesofeight]

Can I tell you all something......
My Father worked all his life until he had his hip replaced when I was 19 and
was then stricken with cancer and leukemia and not able to work for the remainder of his life.
He missed out on his benefits and pension because he was just shy of ten years in at general Motors.
He lived on welfare for over 7 yrs and that paid him 750 bucks a month, not even enough to make rent here.
A couple years before he died he won his settlement and had to pay every penny back to Social Services
even though he had paid into all his working life.

I believe someone mentioned they are sour about some being on assistance
and staying up all night serving there own wishes.
Well your right, my Father did stay up all night but he didn't spend it doing whatever
he wanted, he spent it puking from the pills and chemotherapy that he had to pay
out of pocket for.
Thank god for our family that helped him get those meds that allowed him a longer life with us.

Not all fit into your little files of how fares should fly.

Sorry to hear that Moonie. I know how you feel though. After my father-in-law got laid off over 3 years ago, he devoted full time to his landscaping business. He took to trimming trees in the winter to make ends meat and promptly fell out of a tree shattering his right femur and fracturing his hip. They had to put in a metal rod into his remaining bone. Just a couple weeks ago that rod broke and they had to replace it with a thicker rod. He's pushing 60 and can't get hired here. It's tough enough in this unfriendly business state for an able bodied younger person.
It angers the hell out of me thinking of all the wasted gov't spending that goes to worthless programs than to those who could use the help.

If you go back and read it..that's exactly it..SOME people. Why would you take offense and even compare someone who really needs help to someone who doesn't? Not everyone abuses the system. Not everyone who is on assistance stays up all night because they can. Some people have no choice..illness. I totally support assistance for the right reasons. I mentioned that I myself was getting help for nine months when I was younger. It's a great thing when used right. Sadly..I have been witness to it being used more wrong than right.
The company I run..I see many people daily who are on the system help..who are more than able to work..and they even joke about it.
Very sad what your dad went through..you know what it is..how we feel about life and things like this..or most topics that are discussed here..it's about what we experience. Most of our judgements on things come from what we have experienced.
I'm not sure how you can think someone would even compare people staying up all night..people who are getting help and abusing the system..to somoene staying up all night who has no choice because they are sick.
Most of the people who I lived next too..were nothing like your father. If they had been..I would have a different experience because most likely I wouldn't even know he had been up all night because I wouldn't be hearing loud partying.
Some people think anyone getting help is a joke. I do not. When used right..it's a good thing.
Again..people who are more than able to be working..but don't..that's the point. Not someone who is sick and REALLY needs the help.
Being someone myself who has basically always worked six days a week..around 12 hours a day..it's not being SOUR..it's bullshit when I do that..yet I see people who are able to be working..but don't..yet they raise hell around the clock..allowing me no sleep. That's when it's bull.
Not sure how you can think someone is SOUR when they work their ass off..yet get no sleep because those they live around are abusing the system and keeping them up. Howe is that sour. Sour to me would be if I wish I could do that too..no..just want to be able to sleep after working my ass off.
Your dad..he never would have kept me up..most likely never would have even known or heard him.
Don't know why you can't see the difference enough to mention being SOUR. Never was it said that EVERYONE who gets help is wrong. NEVER was it said..living next to people who are sick and getting help is bull. NO..it was said because they were not sick. Prove that they were able to work..BECAUSE THEY WERE PARTYING ALL NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe SOUR came up because it was mentioned that they drove nicer cars and dressed nicer. Well..when they joke about it and lavish and laugh about it..it's not bieng sour. It's bull. Comments being made about 'I drive a nicer car than you and I don't even have to work because I get assistance' , that's bull.
Your dad's situation..COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT. Not sure after reading the story..how you didn't get the difference. Never was their mention that some don't deserve it..yet you never mentioned where you can see some don't.

[piecesofeight]

It's tough enough in this unfriendly business state for an able bodied younger person.
It angers the hell out of me thinking of all the wasted gov't spending that goes to worthless programs than to those who could use the help.

That may be the first statement you've made that I agree with you on. As a 58 yr old woman whose 58 yr old husband's employer recently went to China I know first hand how hard it is.

We may not agree on which programs are worthless, but at least I see a little bit of a heart in that post.

BINGO!!! That's the point. There are so many people abusing the system..when there are so many who REALLY need the help and either don't get or are denied. That's when it tickes me off.
Again..everyday at my job..I witness customers who are abusing the system..and yet I work with people who could really use the help..but don't get for one reason or another.
There are many reasons why government help is a great thing. Sadly..I have not been around as many good as bad. I have only been able to make my judgements from what I have seen. Again..I think that's where most of or thoughts and feelings about things come from..our own experiences.

[ohsherrie]

It's tough enough in this unfriendly business state for an able bodied younger person.
It angers the hell out of me thinking of all the wasted gov't spending that goes to worthless programs than to those who could use the help.

That may be the first statement you've made that I agree with you on. As a 58 yr old woman whose 58 yr old husband's employer recently went to China I know first hand how hard it is.

We may not agree on which programs are worthless, but at least I see a little bit of a heart in that post.

BINGO!!! That's the point. There are so many people abusing the system..when there are so many who REALLY need the help and either don't get or are denied. That's when it tickes me off.
Again..everyday at my job..I witness customers who are abusing the system..and yet I work with people who could really use the help..but don't get for one reason or another.
There are many reasons why government help is a great thing. Sadly..I have not been around as many good as bad. I have only been able to make my judgements from what I have seen. Again..I think that's where most of or thoughts and feelings about things come from..our own experiences.

Of course our opinions on things come from our personal experiences. That's all we have to form our opinions on. I've seen both sides of this issue in action but what worries me is that too many people are willing to throw out the baby with the bath water. They want to eliminate all government assistance to all people because too many have abused the system.

In some respects I see this problem the same way I see the illegal immigration problem.

They(whoever the fuck they are, probably media) say it would be impossible to find and deport all the illegal immigrants, and they also say it would be impossible to find and penalize all of the recipients of fraudulent welfare funds.

That's bullshit. They may not be able to find and deal with them all at one time, but they can sure as hell be keeping a directed and alert eye out for them and deal with them as the find them. I can't even say how many times I've heard stories of people in positions of authority finding, knowing, or even hiring people who are here illegally and choosing to look the other way. I know from personal experience that there are people in the welfare system in Virginia that have been told of abuses and look the other way because it would cause racially related disruptions to address the issue. (I'm not going to cite sources on that though )

We have HUGE problems in this country, but giving tax cuts to the well to do, sending jobs overseas, going into a war over intentionally fraudulent intelligence information, and giving amnesty to illegal aliens isn't going to solve them.