OT: The Clinton Library

[Rip Rokken]

Frak, I can beat that old fuckin sissy to more shreds than an Neal Schon solo.

Better study up first....

[7 Wishes]

As of this point, I am officially DONE with ANY political debates on this board. I will no longer be goaded or get sucked into these messes. I am not acquiescing anything...getting these points across to people with their hands over their ears is pointless and a waste of time. So, I have hundreds of bookmarks...I mislableled one of them. The next URL down on my bookmarks WAS an article written about the CONSEQUENCES of 9/11 that DID win a Pulitzer.

My point is that weapons of mass distraction are being used here. The fact that I put the wrong author's name on the piece DOES NOT CHANGE AT ALL THE FACTS CONTAINED THEREIN.

I have admitted being wrong on many occasions here. Saint John's article about Clinton's 1996 opportunity to catch Bin Laden SEVERELY diminished my regard for how Clinton handled the terrorism issue during his Presidency. Dave has opened my eyes a few times when I haven't wanted to see. So this is not about being stubborn and obstinate, although I am more than capable of those behaviours from time to time.

The fact that I will no longer respond to any political discussions does not mean I am lending any credence to the theories being postulated. I am dealing with far too severe a health crisis right now to engage like this anymore...without the political distractions, this board will go back to being a haven as opposed to a war zone.

However, one more thing, RVR. Supposing I DO elect to go to Vegas. I guarantee you'd need a few of you to put me on my ass. You have no idea who I am...sure, I am a fiscal conservative (believe it or not) social liberal Democrat, but that doesn't mean I wear underoos and live in my mother's basement. I am a self-made man...put myself through undergraduate and graduate school. I hold three undergraduate degrees and an MBA (FYI, Steveforever, I didn't "come to this country" to mooch"; besides, I am a dual citizen of the UK and USA). I have been a personal trainer for 14 years...ever since I stopped working for "the man". Between my music and voice lessons and my training studio, I work 50 hours a week. So if I do see you in Vegas, please do feel free to take this way beyond where it needed to be. Feel free to take me aside and challenge me to a fight. I guarantee you won't like the results.

[RossValoryRocks]

As of this point, I am officially DONE with ANY political debates on this board. I will no longer be goaded or get sucked into these messes. I am not acquiescing anything...getting these points across to people with their hands over their ears is pointless and a waste of time. So, I have hundreds of bookmarks...I mislableled one of them. The next URL down on my bookmarks WAS an article written about the CONSEQUENCES of 9/11 that DID win a Pulitzer.

My point is that weapons of mass distraction are being used here. The fact that I put the wrong author's name on the piece DOES NOT CHANGE AT ALL THE FACTS CONTAINED THEREIN.

I have admitted being wrong on many occasions here. Saint John's article about Clinton's 1996 opportunity to catch Bin Laden SEVERELY diminished my regard for how Clinton handled the terrorism issue during his Presidency. Dave has opened my eyes a few times when I haven't wanted to see. So this is not about being stubborn and obstinate, although I am more than capable of those behaviours from time to time.

The fact that I will no longer respond to any political discussions does not mean I am lending any credence to the theories being postulated. I am dealing with far too severe a health crisis right now to engage like this anymore...without the political distractions, this board will go back to being a haven as opposed to a war zone.

However, one more thing, RVR. Supposing I DO elect to go to Vegas. I guarantee you'd need a few of you to put me on my ass. You have no idea who I am...sure, I am a fiscal conservative (believe it or not) social liberal Democrat, but that doesn't mean I wear underoos and live in my mother's basement. I am a self-made man...put myself through undergraduate and graduate school. I hold three undergraduate degrees and an MBA (FYI, Steveforever, I didn't "come to this country" to mooch"; besides, I am a dual citizen of the UK and USA). I have been a personal trainer for 14 years...ever since I stopped working for "the man". Between my music and voice lessons and my training studio, I work 50 hours a week. So if I do see you in Vegas, please do feel free to take this way beyond where it needed to be. Feel free to take me aside and challenge me to a fight. I guarantee you won't like the results.

Now who is threatening whom? I just don't want you there because I want to have a good time, not listen to some smarmy mouthed poser who isn't as smart as his degrees indicate.

[Rip Rokken]

Hey, guys, c'mon... Let's keep it fun in here before Andrew locks this thread. Nobody is seriously talking about kicking anyone's asses in Vegas.

[NealIsGod]

Hey, guys, c'mon... Let's keep it fun in here before Andrew locks this thread. Nobody is seriously talking about kicking anyone's asses in Vegas.

The only asses that will be kicked are the casinos' once Deano gets on a roll.

[Rip Rokken]

The only asses that will be kicked are the casinos' once Deano gets on a roll.

I may just give him my money and let him bet it for me...

[Tomulator]

As of this point, I am officially DONE with ANY political debates on this board. I will no longer be goaded or get sucked into these messes. I am not acquiescing anything...getting these points across to people with their hands over their ears is pointless and a waste of time. So, I have hundreds of bookmarks...I mislableled one of them. The next URL down on my bookmarks WAS an article written about the CONSEQUENCES of 9/11 that DID win a Pulitzer.

My point is that weapons of mass distraction are being used here. The fact that I put the wrong author's name on the piece DOES NOT CHANGE AT ALL THE FACTS CONTAINED THEREIN.

I have admitted being wrong on many occasions here. Saint John's article about Clinton's 1996 opportunity to catch Bin Laden SEVERELY diminished my regard for how Clinton handled the terrorism issue during his Presidency. Dave has opened my eyes a few times when I haven't wanted to see. So this is not about being stubborn and obstinate, although I am more than capable of those behaviours from time to time.

The fact that I will no longer respond to any political discussions does not mean I am lending any credence to the theories being postulated. I am dealing with far too severe a health crisis right now to engage like this anymore...without the political distractions, this board will go back to being a haven as opposed to a war zone.

However, one more thing, RVR. Supposing I DO elect to go to Vegas. I guarantee you'd need a few of you to put me on my ass. You have no idea who I am...sure, I am a fiscal conservative (believe it or not) social liberal Democrat, but that doesn't mean I wear underoos and live in my mother's basement. I am a self-made man...put myself through undergraduate and graduate school. I hold three undergraduate degrees and an MBA (FYI, Steveforever, I didn't "come to this country" to mooch"; besides, I am a dual citizen of the UK and USA). I have been a personal trainer for 14 years...ever since I stopped working for "the man". Between my music and voice lessons and my training studio, I work 50 hours a week. So if I do see you in Vegas, please do feel free to take this way beyond where it needed to be. Feel free to take me aside and challenge me to a fight. I guarantee you won't like the results.

Why is it you always seem to mention that you are a "personal trainer" in every post or that you work out, etc.?

That's really important to you that people know that isn't it?

[RedWingFan]

First of all, oh king of all ignoramuses, it would have been rather difficult for a writer to win a Pulitzer in 2005 for an article written in 2007.

Simple math there.

So you quote opinion pieces with NO FACTS and get to call them "Facts", and I provide an article with 100% SUBSTANTIATED, IRREFUTABLE FACT, and you try to turn it into an opinion piece?

You lost, dude. You can't win this one. You can try to throw the hounds off the trail all you want, but you will have no success. You may continue to reign supreme here with your equally inane cohorts, none of whom also seems to be able to differentiate between black and white, but your "elected" President and your party are going down. BUSH IS THE WORST ELECTED LEADER SINCE THE ADVENT OF THE INDUSTRIAL AGE.

Sorry, Lack of Fact Finder. You can't win this one. The truth is the truth, and the truth is, your awful, lying President LIED KNOWINGLY AND REPEATEDLY AND STARTED AN ILLEGAL WAR.

Who's the "king of ignoramuses"??? The article was written in 2005 by Murray Waas according to the National Journal...

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweek ... 122nj1.htm

Key Bush Intelligence Briefing Kept From Hill Panel

By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
------->Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2005<------- (emphasis mine)

Ouch! I felt that ass kicking by Dave come all the way up from US-23 to where I'm at in Michigan.
Can anyone look up the Presidents speech at the outset of the war. I know he mentioned half a dozen reasons, ie:WMDs, UN resolution violations...etc. I don't remember Iraq being responsible for 9/11 being one of them.

[7 Wishes]

No, the only reason I said anything at all was that someone said something to the effect that I came to this country (strange, since I was born here) and nothing worked out for me because I was lazy, and now I'm just angry. I'm no more intelligent than the next guy. My only reason for mentioning education was that I had to pay for EVERYTHING...my family was poor (they were all starving musicians/performers/actors) and nothing came to me the easy way...and that I now have two careers that can be adversely affected by a bad economy and other issues.

I was being defensive, and I was being an ass. Wasn't the first time, won't be the last.

[Panther]

This piece was written by a reporter for the St. Louis Post, and it won her a Pulitzer.

FACT, Dave. Pure Fact. There is NO opinion here. This piece is FACT, and your President is a lying sack of shit.

Don't you live here? If so, then he's your president, too...

Holy Shit! It just popped into my little head that the man will be out of a job soon. And probably heading back here. Holy Mother of Guacamole! Do we have ANYTHING in the constitution that will keep him from running for OUR main office again? I'm sure he could find more ways to screw over this state. ::::shiver:::::

[7 Wishes]

OK, so a testosterone surge also had me convinced that Ross was calling me out...what can I say? I'm human. The only reason I even mentioned I was a P.T. is that I don't exactly LOOK like your "average" beatnik liberal...most people would assume by looking at me that I was a card-carrying NRA member with a Stallone-esque penchant for HGH. Thus...I guess the point is that looks can be deceiving. A lot of people like to push you around on this board if you're not a Conservative, and then it seemed RVR was assuming I was the prototypical 5'5" 135-pound wobbly-kneed tree-hugger that most Republicans assume us Lefties are. So do you understand now? I can guarantee that if the roles were reversed, and RVR was a Liberal yahoo and I was a Neo-Con, the assumption would have NEVER been that I was an unimposing wimp who could be taken to the cleaners upon his arrival in Las Vegas.

Anyway, Fact Finder...I owe you an apology. I thought your post was actually extremely insightful and I appreciated it. I may not agree with a lot of you, but you are smart SOB's, and that in of itself pisses me off...although I do think that all of us (me included) have a politically-slanted "truth aversion syndrome" when it comes to cold, hard facts. Now I know Clinton dropped the ball, big time, in 1996. I'm not afraid to admit it. Every now and then you have to meet someone half way...or even, God forbid, re-examine your own assumptions and realize you may have been wrong.

[Rip Rokken]

Now I know Clinton dropped the ball, big time, in 1996. I'm not afraid to admit it.

Somewhere there is actually an audio clip of Clinton talking to some group, and mentioning how Sudan tried to give him Bin Laden several years ago, but he refused him because he had no legal reason to hold him. Basically, he was offered Bin Laden on a platter and turned him down. I'll try to dig it up if anyone is interested, but many I'm sure have already heard it.

[7 Wishes]

The trade was actually Johan Santana for Bin Laden and Hughes, but Clinton turned it down in the last second. Too bad.

[RedWingFan]

Now I know Clinton dropped the ball, big time, in 1996. I'm not afraid to admit it.

Somewhere there is actually an audio clip of Clinton talking to some group, and mentioning how Sudan tried to give him Bin Laden several years ago, but he refused him because he had no legal reason to hold him. Basically, he was offered Bin Laden on a platter and turned him down. I'll try to dig it up if anyone is interested, but many I'm sure have already heard it.

Heard it many times. I'm pretty sure that it was before Clinton said he was, "virtually obsessed" with OBL.

[Rip Rokken]

Heard it many times. I'm pretty sure that it was before Clinton said he was, "virtually obsessed" with OBL.

Correct! Man, did he go on a damage control tour when that hit... It still never seemed to get major traction in the media, even though it was quite the find. Thank the media for that...

[conversationpc]

A lot of people like to push you around on this board if you're not a Conservative

Come one now...You guys on the left, Deano especially, have done plenty of that.

Anyway, Fact Finder...I owe you an apology. I thought your post was actually extremely insightful and I appreciated it. I may not agree with a lot of you, but you are smart SOB's, and that in of itself pisses me off...although I do think that all of us (me included) have a politically-slanted "truth aversion syndrome" when it comes to cold, hard facts. Now I know Clinton dropped the ball, big time, in 1996. I'm not afraid to admit it. Every now and then you have to meet someone half way...or even, God forbid, re-examine your own assumptions and realize you may have been wrong.

You suck...............Just kidding.

[Rick]

You suck...............Just kidding.

You've been full of piss and vinegar lately. You're fun to watch.

[conversationpc]

You suck...............Just kidding.

You've been full of piss and vinegar lately. You're fun to watch.

Like a train wreck?

[The_Noble_Cause]

They ALL looked at the same intelligence reports that our President did.

Not true at all. The declassified version of the NIE that Congress was given was purged of all caveats and qualifiers that were contained in the official White House version. As far as British Intelligence is concerned, I suggest you get acquainted with a little something called the Downing St. Memos.
While you're at it, you might want to spare a nanosecond and google the name Douglas Feith, too.
And that doesn't even begin to skim the surface...
From the testimony of various weapons inspectors, to Collin Powell's chief of staff, to the former Spanish Prime Minister - many government mandarins have laid it on the line to tell the people the true account of events.
It's all out there in the public domain.

If you haven't heard any of it by now, it's because Sean Hannity simply doesn't want you to know.

[Rick]

You suck...............Just kidding.

You've been full of piss and vinegar lately. You're fun to watch.

Like a train wreck?

This whole forum is like that!

[7 Wishes]

A moose once bit my sister...

[7 Wishes]

No realli! She was Karving her initials on the moose with the sharpened end
of an interspace toothbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an
Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian movies: "The Hot Hands of an Oslo
Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Molars of Horst Nordfink"...

Mynd you, moose bites Kan be pretti nasti...

[G.I.Jim]

They ALL looked at the same intelligence reports that our President did.

Not true at all. The declassified version of the NIE that Congress was given was purged of all caveats and qualifiers that were contained in the official White House version. As far as British Intelligence is concerned, I suggest you get acquainted with a little something called the Downing St. Memos.
While you're at it, you might want to spare a nanosecond and google the name Douglas Feith, too.
And that doesn't even begin to skim the surface...
From the testimony of various weapons inspectors, to Collin Powell's chief of staff, to the former Spanish Prime Minister - many government mandarins have laid it on the line to tell the people the true account of events.
It's all out there in the public domain.

If you haven't heard any of it by now, it's because Sean Hannity simply doesn't want you to know.

While I didn't think the Hannity joke was called for...I'm always out for the truth! I'll research what you've posted. If I'm wrong, I'm human and I'll be the first to admit it. I'm always sceptical of where I get my news from though. If you start to dig, you'll normally find the person presenting the info, on the opposite side of the spectrum! JMHO.

Seven Wishes...I'm sorry you're going through what you're dealing with health-wise. I'm alsosorry if I came across as an ass, but I never asked you to send me the demos. You PM'd me and said you'd send them. After time went by, you told me a couple of times you'd send them. If you're health was too bad, you should have just told me you couldn't do it, and I would have went to someone else for them.

Again, I'm really sorry if you're dealing with bad health, and I wish you a speedy recovery! I'll research this new info and get back to you. You'll never hear me say that I think we have the best president in our country's history....I know he's made some serious mistakes (and don't even get me started on his illegal immigration stand ), but I believe in my heart that our president had the best of intentions when we went to war with Iraq. Again, JMHO.

[SteveForever]

I'll research this new info and get back to you. You'll never hear me say that I think we have the best president in our country's history....I know he's made some serious mistakes (and don't even get me started on his illegal immigration stand ), but I believe in my heart that our president had the best of intentions when we went to war with Iraq. Again, JMHO.

That's exactly it Jim, I never hear any of the conservatives or moderates on this board say that Bush is the best, yet if you post
anything that is not slamming Bush then you must "adore" him and we're accused of all types of ignorant thinking over and over.
One can't post an opinion or different perception without being called shallow, hard headed or too stupid.
No matter what, this is still the best country in the world, love it or leave it! Don't come to America and complain how much you hate it,
there are many other places to live in the free world.

p.s. I lived in Japan and in England for several years and I have to say=they can't compare to living here!