Caveman's Diary: new Journey may be leaked?

[texafana]

"This is how artists make their living and I respect their wishes."

CD sales probably represent a very low percentage of their income.

If the music is very good, I'm sure they'll WANT to leak a few tracks, to get some buzz for shows, etc. Doesn't surprise me. The "warning" about the leaked tracks simply tells all of us to start looking for them anyday now. It's a no brainer, they're leaked, on purpose and they probably sound very good.

[NealIsGod]

Bah.

I'm firing Shirley over this weekend.

Me, Elson and NIG are co-producing.

St John you can get coffes.

Nah, you'd be telling Arnel, "Sing this like Augeri..." and I would be saying "Sing it like Perry...".

And SJ would definitely spit in our coffee.

[Stoneyman]

A lot of bands are taking their music promotion into their hands. No matter who you are in the business, it is widely known that cd's leak at some point before release dates. And that is with strict "security."

Because Arrival ended up being heard by fans nearly 6 months before it came out was horrible for Journey. Why not take the approach and put a single up on the website like others have mentioned here?? Bands like Dream Theater put up entire songs on their site for download a few months before the release of the cd. Journey can control what people hear first by posting the coolest song on their site.
Also IMO they should have an Arnel song playing in the background of the new site. That way they are promoting the new band rather than confusing anyone.......again.

[NealIsGod]

A lot of bands are taking their music promotion into their hands. No matter who you are in the business, it is widely known that cd's leak at some point before release dates. And that is with strict "security."

Because Arrival ended up being heard by fans nearly 6 months before it came out was horrible for Journey. Why not take the approach and put a single up on the website like others have mentioned here?? Bands like Dream Theater put up entire songs on their site for download a few months before the release of the cd. Journey can control what people hear first by posting the coolest song on their site.
Also IMO they should have an Arnel song playing in the background of the new site. That way they are promoting the new band rather than confusing anyone.......again.

They won't do that because it makes sense.

[Saint John]

A lot of bands are taking their music promotion into their hands. No matter who you are in the business, it is widely known that cd's leak at some point before release dates. And that is with strict "security."

Because Arrival ended up being heard by fans nearly 6 months before it came out was horrible for Journey. Why not take the approach and put a single up on the website like others have mentioned here?? Bands like Dream Theater put up entire songs on their site for download a few months before the release of the cd. Journey can control what people hear first by posting the coolest song on their site.
Also IMO they should have an Arnel song playing in the background of the new site. That way they are promoting the new band rather than confusing anyone.......again.

They won't do that because it makes sense.

Patience, grasshopper.

[Arkansas]

Actually, my take on it is that maybe AP took a copy or two home to the P.I. for his personal use or for promotion. And KS has warned him not to let it get out of his sight because he fears it could easily show up in an Asian piracy shop where many copies could get made for whatever market.

Wasn't there a news story in the past few months about an entire shipment of various CDs getting confiscated in Long Beach because they were pirate copies?


later~

[The Sushi Hunter]

Perhaps Arnel was sort of "tricked" into singing a few tunes at a private party in the Philippines and someone who is close to him and has gained his trust, went out after hearing the new material and is with another Filipino band out duplicating it. Remember, the musicians in the Philippines are dead on exact in playing existing music. It would be a sensational idea and money maker for a band in the Philippines to duplicate this not yet released Journey material and start doing it live, including having it video taped and then posted up on Youtube. Again, this would be something Arnel himself would not intend to do. Arnel is a strong individual so I highly doubt that he would repeat any material illigally and behind Journey's back in any fashion. However there is always a possibility of betrayal over there. Only thing we can really do is just wait it out and see what happens. Arnel and perhaps his immediate family should have been kept in the U.S. until after the cd was released, not against anyone's will, just have it as part of the stipulation of being hired into the band.

[marco17]

Maybe this was said and I missed it but... Arrival leaking was an issue for a couple reasons. First, it wasn't Perry singing so it turned a lot of people off, and they heard a lot of the material long before the release. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to leak something intentionally to get fan feedback. Because of the negative feedback on Arrival, they added a couple different songs to liven it up a bit. I am sure they want some fans opinions on this too, and let's face it, it is a different situation this time then Arrival. Arrival was their first release post-Perry with the guy who replaced Perry. With Arnel, I am sure they want to hear fan reaction, but Arnel is not replacing Perry. He's replacing Jeff, who replaced Augeri, who replaced Perry. While there are still fans that have high hopes for the band it certainly does not have the magnitude it did when Augeri took over for Perry because of the lead singer turnover.

[WalrusOct9]

CD's are how labels and suits make their money...artists get very little of that $15 unless they're doing everything themselves. If the artist got the majority of money from the sale of a CD, I could buy into this "OMG the sky is falling" thing that everyone's so freaked out about, but I honestly just couldn't give two shits about the well-being of those in the music industry who don't actually play instruments or make music.

Looking at the prices of the last couple of Journey tours, I don't get the feeling they're hurting for cash, unless, say, one of the band members owes 4 or 5 different women alimony payments.

[texafana]

Maybe this was said and I missed it but... Arrival leaking was an issue for a couple reasons. First, it wasn't Perry singing so it turned a lot of people off, and they heard a lot of the material long before the release. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to leak something intentionally to get fan feedback. Because of the negative feedback on Arrival, they added a couple different songs to liven it up a bit. I am sure they want some fans opinions on this too, and let's face it, it is a different situation this time then Arrival. Arrival was their first release post-Perry with the guy who replaced Perry. With Arnel, I am sure they want to hear fan reaction, but Arnel is not replacing Perry. He's replacing Jeff, who replaced Augeri, who replaced Perry. While there are still fans that have high hopes for the band it certainly does not have the magnitude it did when Augeri took over for Perry because of the lead singer turnover.

My brain hurts from that one...

[brywool]

" ... Also been assembling various running orders of the Journey material, and hoping against hope that one of these discs doesn't find it's way onto the internet, or to some dodgy Thai production facility before the release date, but you can only warn people so much. ... "

Hhmmm... Is KS implying that the band is passing around a few more CDs than he's comfortable with?
Any insiders here have something to share?


later~

No Kidding- WHY do they let it out at all, especially after "Arrival"? DUMB.

[brywool]

I think the band should post 30 second clips of their favorite tracks to whet our whistles. Might delay such misguided altruism if any exists.

YUP

[marco17]

Maybe this was said and I missed it but... Arrival leaking was an issue for a couple reasons. First, it wasn't Perry singing so it turned a lot of people off, and they heard a lot of the material long before the release. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to leak something intentionally to get fan feedback. Because of the negative feedback on Arrival, they added a couple different songs to liven it up a bit. I am sure they want some fans opinions on this too, and let's face it, it is a different situation this time then Arrival. Arrival was their first release post-Perry with the guy who replaced Perry. With Arnel, I am sure they want to hear fan reaction, but Arnel is not replacing Perry. He's replacing Jeff, who replaced Augeri, who replaced Perry. While there are still fans that have high hopes for the band it certainly does not have the magnitude it did when Augeri took over for Perry because of the lead singer turnover.

My brain hurts from that one...

Sorry what can I say... I was typing and trying to participate on a conference call at the same time

[fightingilliniJRNY]

A lot of bands are taking their music promotion into their hands. No matter who you are in the business, it is widely known that cd's leak at some point before release dates. And that is with strict "security."

Because Arrival ended up being heard by fans nearly 6 months before it came out was horrible for Journey. Why not take the approach and put a single up on the website like others have mentioned here?? Bands like Dream Theater put up entire songs on their site for download a few months before the release of the cd. Journey can control what people hear first by posting the coolest song on their site.
Also IMO they should have an Arnel song playing in the background of the new site. That way they are promoting the new band rather than confusing anyone.......again.

They won't do that because it makes sense.

Patience, grasshopper.

Maybe...?

[STORY_TELLER]

Perhaps Arnel was sort of "tricked" into singing a few tunes at a private party in the Philippines and someone who is close to him and has gained his trust, went out after hearing the new material and is with another Filipino band out duplicating it. Remember, the musicians in the Philippines are dead on exact in playing existing music. It would be a sensational idea and money maker for a band in the Philippines to duplicate this not yet released Journey material and start doing it live, including having it video taped and then posted up on Youtube. Again, this would be something Arnel himself would not intend to do. Arnel is a strong individual so I highly doubt that he would repeat any material illigally and behind Journey's back in any fashion. However there is always a possibility of betrayal over there. Only thing we can really do is just wait it out and see what happens. Arnel and perhaps his immediate family should have been kept in the U.S. until after the cd was released, not against anyone's will, just have it as part of the stipulation of being hired into the band.

LMAO!!! Are you out of your mind? How could Arnel, singing alone at a party, convey to anyone let alone another band, what the NEW MUSIC INSTRUMENTALS sound like?? What, is he carrying around sheet music for the guitar, bass, keyboards drums in his back pocket?? LOL!!!!

[Red13JoePa]

Bah.

I'm firing Shirley over this weekend.

Me, Elson and NIG are co-producing.

St John you can get coffes.

And SJ would definitely spit in our coffee.

OK, we'll make Deano the gopher/piss boy then

[The Sushi Hunter]

Out of my mind? Not at all, and what I say is not unreasonable. Remember, much of the music AMO Band learned was just by memory of how the song goes. Never underestimate their talent. Back in 94' when I was with one of the original AMO Band members, we were learning songs without a copy. To begin the process, we just need to know what the begining note is and how the melody goes. We were relentless in our determination to learn the song and would spend hours and hours working on it.

This was how our minds worked, I would be somewhere and a song would come on either on a radio within my range of hearing, etc. My mind was preoccupied on other things but subconciously my brain was recording the information such as the melody, stanzas, etc. Then over the next few weeks, I would be doing my usual activities, but for some odd reason one night would come where I would have this dream and hear a melody and song in my mind I've never heard before. I'd then set out and duplicate that song precisely as to how I heard it in my dream and remembered it at the time I awoke from my sleep. So then after getting the entire song done with all instruments and such, a day would come where I would hear the same song on the radio, with the exception of the lyrics. When this first happened to me, I was in Japan. I was just thinking that someone must have heard my original song and copied it. But after it happened over and over a few times over a period of about five years, I finally caught on that I must have heard it somewhere like when I was out shopping or eating at a restaurant or something, but at the time I didn't realize or notice it was playing. After a few nights, maybe a week or so, it would come to me in a dream.

So it is quite possible to duplicate music by simply knowing what the melody and stanza's are, and knowing what note the song starts. There were times during my years in the Philippines that we would have jam session meetings between a number of bands. We'd be invited to a bands house to listen to them play, and the next thing you know, we would be up there with them fine tuning their instruments, pointing out how they could accomplish the exact notes, etc. It was a very interesting experience to me really. And the leader of AMO Band is like a magician. He knew exactly what notes were what and everyone and anyone who was in the music business had great respect for him. All Arnel would need to do is simply sing a song and the magician would be able to figure out the notes, melody and stanzas. I used to also do this with live bands in Japan. We'd go into the rehersal studio and do complete arrangements. Bottom line is it's not that hard to do at all. Is it something that will happen with Arnel and Journey material? I doubt it, but the possibility is still there on the table for the taking.

[STORY_TELLER]

Out of my mind? Not at all, and what I say is not unreasonable. Remember, much of the music AMO Band learned was just by memory of how the song goes. Never underestimate their talent. Back in 94' when I was with one of the original AMO Band members, we were learning songs without a copy. To begin the process, we just need to know what the begining note is and how the melody goes. We were relentless in our determination to learn the song and would spend hours and hours working on it.

This was how our minds worked, I would be somewhere and a song would come on either on a radio within my range of hearing, etc. My mind was preoccupied on other things but subconciously my brain was recording the information such as the melody, stanzas, etc. Then over the next few weeks, I would be doing my usual activities, but for some odd reason one night would come where I would have this dream and hear a melody and song in my mind I've never heard before. I'd then set out and duplicate that song precisely as to how I heard it in my dream and remembered it at the time I awoke from my sleep. So then after getting the entire song done with all instruments and such, a day would come where I would hear the same song on the radio, with the exception of the lyrics. When this first happened to me, I was in Japan. I was just thinking that someone must have heard my original song and copied it. But after it happened over and over a few times over a period of about five years, I finally caught on that I must have heard it somewhere like when I was out shopping or eating at a restaurant or something, but at the time I didn't realize or notice it was playing. After a few nights, maybe a week or so, it would come to me in a dream.

So it is quite possible to duplicate music by simply knowing what the melody and stanza's are, and knowing what note the song starts. There were times during my years in the Philippines that we would have jam session meetings between a number of bands. We'd be invited to a bands house to listen to them play, and the next thing you know, we would be up there with them fine tuning their instruments, pointing out how they could accomplish the exact notes, etc. It was a very interesting experience to me really. And the leader of AMO Band is like a magician. He knew exactly what notes were what and everyone and anyone who was in the music business had great respect for him. All Arnel would need to do is simply sing a song and the magician would be able to figure out the notes, melody and stanzas. I used to also do this with live bands in Japan. We'd go into the rehersal studio and do complete arrangements. Bottom line is it's not that hard to do at all. Is it something that will happen with Arnel and Journey material? I doubt it, but the possibility is still there on the table for the taking.

Sushi,
You just spent a really long time detailing something that wasn't stated in your original comment. You said "Perhaps Arnel was sort of "tricked into singing a few tunes at a private party...". Since we're talking about the new material, again, I ask you, how in the world could a guy singing songs acapella at a party convey to anyone what the instrumentals of the music sounds like? Journey certainly wouldn't be performing the songs at this party, right? So where are the instrumentals coming from?

If what you meant to say was, perhaps Arnel played his personal CD of the yet to be released tracks and someone there managed to remember them SO well that they could get an entire band to recreate the instrumentals and vocals of songs they've never heard before nor will likely hear again before they are released, then, that would support what you just said above. Still just as far fetched as your original post, , but it would make more sense.

[Jeremey]

Why would Journey be hurt financially by the record being leaked? Walmart already paid them for it!

[STORY_TELLER]

Why would Journey be hurt financially by the record being leaked? Walmart already paid them for it!

Very good point!

Unless: there's something in their contract that puts some measure of responsibility on the band and their management for keeping the album under wraps to prevent piracy from hurting sales in their stores?

[ProgRocker53]

I had a dream last night about the new Journey record.

The first song that people will hear will sound something like an amped-up, faster rock anthem that is a mix between "Faith in the Heartland" and "Higher Place." It will be one of the tastiest, most musically profound, incredible songs Journey have ever done.

But.. the rest of the record will be monotonous drivel, sappy ballads, weak pop songs and boring tripe.

Hopefully that's not the case and we have more songs like the first one, but....

...that's just what happened in my dream.

[WalrusOct9]

Really, it's a new Journey album minus Perry. It's going to sell MAYBE what Generations did, probably less. No one cares, they just want to hear the dirty dozen. I mean, I'm glad they still are writing and making music, same with the other classic rock acts I like, but I'm in the minority as far as actually wanting to hear new music by Journey, the Stones, Toto, etc. It really doesn't matter if it's leaked or not, they're not going to make a bunch of money off it regardless.


If they were smart, they'd just do a Prince and put the album out there for free. Journey this decade is a touring band, not a major recording/writing machine, and I think lots of people hearing the new music for free would end up being better for the band in the end than a few thousand already-converted diehards hearing the album on CD.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I had a dream last night about the new Journey record.

The first song that people will hear will sound something like an amped-up, faster rock anthem that is a mix between "Faith in the Heartland" and "Higher Place." It will be one of the tastiest, most musically profound, incredible songs Journey have ever done.

But.. the rest of the record will be monotonous drivel, sappy ballads, weak pop songs and boring tripe.

Hopefully that's not the case and we have more songs like the first one, but....

...that's just what happened in my dream.

Well it's probably not going to happen as your dream described since you never heard the new material to begin with. I'm talking if you've heard it but wasn't aware of it, but then while your sleeping it came back to you.

And yeah, what makes up the majority of the song? The instruments? I think what makes it up is the melody, that's why if you use the same instruments in another song, you don't get pinged but if you use the same melody then you'll be in court. It's something like four measures max that you can copy before you go over the line and get pinged.

Lets just say Arnel goes back to the Philippines, gets back with all the original members and recreates the material before it's been released. What could Journey do to him anyways, he's in the Philippines. Another thing to concider is, someone or some ones could threaten him with his life if he doesn't provide details. Just look what the NPA's do to people over there who they think has money or ties with the Government. At any rate, my only deal with it is I think it would be a verbal disclosure and not a recorded cd that leaks out the information. That's my opinion about it.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Well it's probably not going to happen as your dream described since you never heard the new material to begin with. I'm talking if you've heard it but wasn't aware of it, but then while your sleeping it came back to you.

Lets just say Arnel goes back to the Philippines, gets back with all the original members and recreates the material before it's been released. What could Journey do to him anyways, he's in the Philippines. Another thing to concider is, someone or some ones could threaten him with his life if he doesn't provide details. Just look what the NPA's do to people over there who they think has money or ties with the Government. At any rate, my only deal with it is I think it would be a verbal disclosure and not a recorded cd that leaks out the information. That's my opinion about it.

[chf34jmac]

Uh storyteller,

You thought I was fucked up and made no sense?

[Loneman1]

If they were smart, they'd just do a Prince and put the album out there for free.

They actually did that exact thing with "Generations", unless you are talking about a new album from Prince. I don't follow him all that close, so if he tried this tactic again for second time, I was not aware of it.

[Rockindeano]

Why would Journey be hurt financially by the record being leaked? Walmart already paid them for it!

Very good point!

Unless: there's something in their contract that puts some measure of responsibility on the band and their management for keeping the album under wraps to prevent piracy from hurting sales in their stores?

That's WalMarts problem. Irv is already earning interest on WM's check.

[ttango1]

Maybe you're too pessimistic bro:

Lets just say Arnel goes back to the Philippines, gets back with all the original members and recreates the material before it's been released. What could Journey do to him anyways, he's in the Philippines. Another thing to concider is, someone or some ones could threaten him with his life if he doesn't provide details. Just look what the NPA's do to people over there who they think has money or ties with the Government. At any rate, my only deal with it is I think it would be a verbal disclosure and not a recorded cd that leaks out the information. That's my opinion about it.

But IMHO, it's not that sinister. People here can get carjacked, athletes and celebrities can be pursued and killed. What happens to Arnel there could easily happen here to him or anyone else in the band. But that whole threaten with his life thing is far fetched considering that no one would make any real money selling that blackmarket stuff. Everyone knows that the way to make the money is through contractual dealings with royalties and payments. That same contractual obligation would probably PROHIBIT him from any sort of pre-release on any of the songs other than the ones that he writes himself.

seriously...don't be so dark. The world is BRIGHT ...take notice!

[ohsherrie]

OMFG Like anybody really gives a shit.

[Monker]

OMFG Like anybody really gives a shit.

Gee, I agree with you...

We're talking about Journey, not U2. The affect of leaking a Journey album is about as significant to the real world as questioning how Perry affects the jet stream when he sneezes.

The real world doesn't care.