When The Voice Went Croaky

[brywool]

It was more soulful, more Sam-Cooke-ish, but not deterioration.

Sam only sounded like that live. In the studio... man, smooth as molasses.
How come they haven't made a movie about him???

[chad]

i was a fan from the infinity days, and saw that tour. saw the evolution and departure tour as well. when the frontiers album first came out, i immediately loved it. it had journey written all over it, but had it's own unique slant. perry's vocals were noticeably different, and i thought it worked perfectly with the edgier mix.

at this time, recording studios were using an effects unit called oral exciter....this was being used widely.

hearing perry's frontiers vocals to me, solidified his strengths were how he owned each song, and how he delivered every line. not to mention his range and soul. even the songs like troubled child...wow, just listen to his parts. he fricken worked this song like no other could! x-factor written all over his parts.

chad

[stevew2]

I think Perry is the greatest singer ever, aside from Elvis. You then call me a Loon. You have a better option than SP? Please don't say SA.

I didn't call you a Loon.

I think Arnel is the best singer in the world. Much better then Perry.

There, happy now?

put down that crack pipe Nig lol

[Deb]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one. Eric Martin has that same vocal tone and always has.......and his voice is anything but "damaged". Some singers have a more pure/clear vocal and some more soulful/raspy vocal.......I think we were just very lucky to get both vocal tones out of him.

[brywool]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one. Eric Martin has that same vocal tone and always has.......and his voice is anything but "damaged". Some singers have a more pure/clear vocal and some more soulful/raspy vocal.......I think we were just very lucky to get both vocal tones out of him.

Sorry Deb, but you're incorrect. The rasp comes from the vocal chords not closing as they should. They get that way from trauma or overuse. Prior to Frontiers, Perry didn't have that rasp. After it, that's all he had. What you call "Evolve" means that it was beat into it. Just because Perry could still use his voice doesn't mean it wasn't damaged. The fact that the last times he performed (his solo tour) and the last Journey show he did (Bill Graham Tribute) - the band were made to play the songs in lower keys (or just detuned) speaks volumes. If he wasn't damaged, he'd have no problem singing those songs in the original keys. The fact that he was damaged meant that he needed to make adjustments. I would still bet that his damage was from overuse (touring) and steroid usage.

Also, compare his speaking voice on Behind the Music, to any interview in 81. Jesus, on Behind the Music, he sounds like the Crypt Keeper.

This isn't to take anything away from Perry. He's a god (see avatar on left)- BUT he DID mess up his voice. It's scientifically obvious.

[RedWingFan]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one.

Yeah, but the problem with Perry's voice is that it kept evolving to the point where he doesn't think it's good enough to record.

[STORY_TELLER]

I still say it's deterioration and I say that with a fair mind about the situation, not a Loonish view.

I love Perry's voice. He was the best of the best and I have yet to hear his equal.

Here is why I say it is a deterioration:

It was in no way a "deterioration." As Perry himself stated, Frontiers was a more "angular album. Not dark or angry, but angular. The Escape voice probably would not have worked as well as his natural Frontiers voice.

This is spin, pure and simple. They make it sound like it was an intentional choice for Perry to sing that way. Bullshit. His voice changed and he was concerned about fan reaction to it. Hence the spin. I say the spin was unnecessary. I don't think it was a drastic enough change to be concerned with. The man still had buckets more soul, range and breath control than most singers even today.

I would not have called it a "deterioration" - I thought it was just a change in the style of music. He's hits some doozies in FTLOSM! And in "What Was.."

Except he was singing in a lower register than previous albums. On the FTLOSM tour, the songs were played in a lower key.
Doesn't mean he couldn't sing or what he was singing didn't sound good, but it was still a deterioration.

If all these changes to his voice were intentional choices, we would have heard at least one song where his "escape voice" applied and he would have changed it up to show us that intent. You're going to tell me not one song he made since escape worked with that voice? Come on now...

Perry can sing anything, but he can't control the rasp. That rasp has progressed from Frontiers into what it is today. It's damage, plain and simple. Doesn't mean I don't still want to hear it, doesn't mean it's not great. It just means it's not what it used to be.

So please, people, get a grip! Stop jumping to Perry's defense every time someone draws a rational conclusion that god forbid makes Perry sound human! lol...

[brywool]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one.

Yeah, but the problem with Perry's voice is that it kept evolving to the point where he doesn't think it's good enough to record.

"Yeah, but the problem with Perry's voice is that it kept " GETTING DAMAGED "to the point where he doesn't think it's good enough to record."

It's good enough to record. It's good enough to play live. BUT it's not good enough to sing those songs in the original keys. It may not even be good enough to sing them in a 'slightly' lower key. The songs would need to be reworked. With any other singer, I don't think it would be good. With Perry, his 'feel' and 'soul' would still make those songs good.

The guy should write NEW music tailored to his voice NOW. He shouldn't have to tour. He could do a Vh1 special and let that tour for him.

[RedWingFan]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one.

Yeah, but the problem with Perry's voice is that it kept evolving to the point where he doesn't think it's good enough to record.

"Yeah, but the problem with Perry's voice is that it kept " GETTING DAMAGED "to the point where he doesn't think it's good enough to record."

It's good enough to record. It's good enough to play live. BUT it's not good enough to sing those songs in the original keys. It may not even be good enough to sing them in a 'slightly' lower key. The songs would need to be reworked. With any other singer, I don't think it would be good. With Perry, his 'feel' and 'soul' would still make those songs good.

The guy should write NEW music tailored to his voice NOW. He shouldn't have to tour. He could do a Vh1 special and let that tour for him.

Great post. I agree 100% I was being nice using Deb's word "evolved"

[STORY_TELLER]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one. Eric Martin has that same vocal tone and always has.......and his voice is anything but "damaged". Some singers have a more pure/clear vocal and some more soulful/raspy vocal.......I think we were just very lucky to get both vocal tones out of him.

You don't buy it because you don't want to. Eric Martin always had the raspy sound from day one. So has Rod Stewart. So has Joe Cocker. So has Wilson Picket.

Steve Perry did not start off sounding like any of these singers, but he does now. That's not a choice, that's damage.

[brywool]

Great post. I agree 100% I was being nice using Deb's word "evolved"

I know, I was making it OBVIOUS. I hear so many people say he could still "do it"...

Folks, his voice is damaged. He knows it. Journey knows it. Herbie DEFINITELY knows it. I'm sure that Perry's had it checked by every specialist out there. I cannot believe that SOMETHING couldn't be done for it. Who knows, maybe he tried to have it repaired surgically and the doctor botched the procedure. Julie Andrews voice is apparently permanently damaged by just such a situation. Who'd have ever thought that she sung incorrectly? Great voice... Although I hear from teachers everywhere that there's a 'correct' way to sing and not hurt yourself, I don't know if I believe that anymore. I think it depends on the workload, and the style you're doing.

I think that Arnel stands the best shot of lasting because he's paid his dues in clubs. Shit, I sing 4+ hours in clubs on fridays and saturdays. By Sunday, I'm pretty baked. If I was doing hour and a half shows every other day, I'd be friggin indistructable. Arnel's gotta be loving the schedule change.

[Deb]

[
You can bet that he did struggle with it. To have limitless range at one point, and then to not... damn. That must've messed with his psyche in a big way. I remember reading interviews when Street Talk came out. He was saying that he intentionally sang that way to give those songs a differen feel than Journey. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now. While it's 'smokey', 'husky' or 'sexy' to some, it's actually "damaged".

I don't buy that. Some singers just have a more raspy/soulful/smoky sound to them. Whether their voice has evolved to that or has been like that since day one. Eric Martin has that same vocal tone and always has.......and his voice is anything but "damaged". Some singers have a more pure/clear vocal and some more soulful/raspy vocal.......I think we were just very lucky to get both vocal tones out of him.

Sorry Deb, but you're incorrect. The rasp comes from the vocal chords not closing as they should. They get that way from trauma or overuse. Prior to Frontiers, Perry didn't have that rasp. After it, that's all he had. What you call "Evolve" means that it was beat into it. Just because Perry could still use his voice doesn't mean it wasn't damaged. The fact that the last times he performed (his solo tour) and the last Journey show he did (Bill Graham Tribute) - the band were made to play the songs in lower keys (or just detuned) speaks volumes. If he wasn't damaged, he'd have no problem singing those songs in the original keys. The fact that he was damaged meant that he needed to make adjustments. I would still bet that his damage was from overuse (touring) and steroid usage.

Also, compare his speaking voice on Behind the Music, to any interview in 81. Jesus, on Behind the Music, he sounds like the Crypt Keeper.

This isn't to take anything away from Perry. He's a god (see avatar on left)- BUT he DID mess up his voice. It's scientifically obvious.

I agree, I'm sure all that touring did a number on his voice. His speaking voice on Behind the Music was definitely more raspy then it was when I met him, no idea why that is. I guess what I'm trying to get a feel for here is.....from some posts I'm getting: pure/clear = good, soulful/raspy = damaged? What about singers that are originally raspy (EM)? What about the extremely high notes in FTLSM like "Anyway", and the end of "Let Him Go"......did he do it often, no, but could still hit it?

How ever we describe it, all I'm saying is I prefer the more soulful vocals than the early high vocals.

[brywool]

I agree, I'm sure all that touring did a number on his voice. His speaking voice on Behind the Music was definitely more raspy then it was when I met him, no idea why that is. I guess what I'm trying to get a feel for here is.....from some posts I'm getting: pure/clear = good, soulful/raspy = damaged? What about singers that are originally raspy (EM)? What about the extremely high notes in FTLSM like "Anyway", and the end of "Let Him Go"......did he do it often, no, but could still hit it?

How ever we describe it, all I'm saying is I prefer the more soulful vocals than the early high vocals.

I don't know if I've heard Eric Martin (don't kill me!)- but he was probably 'originally' raspy because by the time he got a record deal (and people started hearing him), he had already worked his voice over. There are some naturally raspy voices out there, but Perry's voice wasn't. He gained that rasp (or, more correctly, he lost his vocal purity). Pure/Clear = non damaged. Raspy= damaged. Soulful= is just Soul. Perry had soul before the rasp and he had it after. The guy emotes vocally like nobody elses bizness. You can't LEARN or CREATE soul. Believe me, I've tried and I'm as white as Casper the fuckin' ghost. The note in "Anyway" is high head voice, almost in the whistle register. You can actually have spots in your voice that work and spots that don't. Also, that album was prior to TBF and he had a considerable amount of voice left, still, not the range he had. I opened for Loverboy a few years ago in a club down here (nice guys) and Mike had this place in his middle voice that wasn't working right at all, yet his high notes were there. That can happen. I've had that as well. Luckily it was temporary. Not sure what "Let him go" is. I'm drawing a blank there.

[johnroxx]

"Croaky"???? Are you nuts???? "Faithfully" is probably the all time best power ballad EVER recorded, and NOBODY, other than Perry could have pulled that song off! We should all be so lucky to be this "Croaky". Listen to Perry on the notes at the end of "Separate Ways", and then listen to EVERY other Journey front man who has tried to pull those same notes off! The premise that Perry all of a sudden couldn't sing any longer, after 1983 is FUCKING RIDICULOUS! If you're really looking for "Croaky", I'd suggest listening to Cain on vocals, singing "Faithfully" on one of his solo CD's!

John from Boston

I frequently disagree with John on any number of subjects, but I have his back 100% here.

I've loved "Frontiers" since the first time I heard it, and have never been without a copy since.

It remains my single favorite Journey release of all time...

;^)

[mistiejourney]

It was more soulful, more Sam-Cooke-ish, but not deterioration.

Sam only sounded like that live. In the studio... man, smooth as molasses.
How come they haven't made a movie about him???

Good question! I have his biography and it would make one hell of a movie. Who would you have play Sam?

[brywool]

It was more soulful, more Sam-Cooke-ish, but not deterioration.

Sam only sounded like that live. In the studio... man, smooth as molasses.
How come they haven't made a movie about him???

Good question! I have his biography and it would make one hell of a movie. Who would you have play Sam?

Not sure. If this was 1981, it'd definitely be Perry doing the vocal tracks though!

[jrnyman28]

Back to the original question: the change in vocals did not affect me much at all when Frontiers came out. I heard it was intentional, I thought "whatever, it's great!".

[mistiejourney]

So please, people, get a grip! Stop jumping to Perry's defense every time someone draws a rational conclusion that god forbid makes Perry sound human! lol...

Hmmm...I didn't see any "jumping to Perry's defense" and since you quoted me above that line, I'll respond.

I thought we were having a discussion about changing vocal abilities/disabilities and frankly, I was learning a bit about vocal cords and voice usage. I, like many people, thought Perry's vocal change up was a conscious decision in the beginning.

The fact that I wouldn't have called the change a "deterioration" doesn't mean I'm a loon, it means I'm not as versed in vocal cord dynamics as others might be.

The fact that I enjoy Perry's voice even in the "raspy" or "croaky" style isn't a defense, it's a personal preference.

Trust me, he's far from God, but he does have the best voice I've ever enjoyed - high, low, smooth, rough.

[brywool]

So please, people, get a grip! Stop jumping to Perry's defense every time someone draws a rational conclusion that god forbid makes Perry sound human! lol...

Hmmm...I didn't see any "jumping to Perry's defense" and since you quoted me above that line, I'll respond.

I thought we were having a discussion about changing vocal abilities/disabilities and frankly, I was learning a bit about vocal cords and voice usage. I, like many people, thought Perry's vocal change up was a conscious decision in the beginning.

The fact that I wouldn't have called the change a "deterioration" doesn't mean I'm a loon, it means I'm not as versed in vocal cord dynamics as others might be.

The fact that I enjoy Perry's voice even in the "raspy" or "croaky" style isn't a defense, it's a personal preference.

Trust me, he's far from God, but he does have the best voice I've ever enjoyed - high, low, smooth, rough.

um, nope... he's God.

[mistiejourney]

So please, people, get a grip! Stop jumping to Perry's defense every time someone draws a rational conclusion that god forbid makes Perry sound human! lol...

Hmmm...I didn't see any "jumping to Perry's defense" and since you quoted me above that line, I'll respond.

I thought we were having a discussion about changing vocal abilities/disabilities and frankly, I was learning a bit about vocal cords and voice usage. I, like many people, thought Perry's vocal change up was a conscious decision in the beginning.

The fact that I wouldn't have called the change a "deterioration" doesn't mean I'm a loon, it means I'm not as versed in vocal cord dynamics as others might be.

The fact that I enjoy Perry's voice even in the "raspy" or "croaky" style isn't a defense, it's a personal preference.

Trust me, he's far from God, but he does have the best voice I've ever enjoyed - high, low, smooth, rough.

um, nope... he's God.

You have got the greatest avatar! LOL!

[Deb]

So please, people, get a grip! Stop jumping to Perry's defense every time someone draws a rational conclusion that god forbid makes Perry sound human! lol...

Hmmm...I didn't see any "jumping to Perry's defense" and since you quoted me above that line, I'll respond.

I thought we were having a discussion about changing vocal abilities/disabilities and frankly, I was learning a bit about vocal cords and voice usage. I, like many people, thought Perry's vocal change up was a conscious decision in the beginning.

The fact that I wouldn't have called the change a "deterioration" doesn't mean I'm a loon, it means I'm not as versed in vocal cord dynamics as others might be.

The fact that I enjoy Perry's voice even in the "raspy" or "croaky" style isn't a defense, it's a personal preference.

Trust me, he's far from God, but he does have the best voice I've ever enjoyed - high, low, smooth, rough.

Exactly! I agree with your post word for word. Also, have to laugh at the use of the "loon card" when trying to get a point across.

[annie89509]

Everyone have valid points. The evidence is there with the recorded albums, and the live concert boots is especially telling. I don't think anyone's arguing that Steve's singing voice didn't change. Age and overuse will do that. But, back to the music is subjective thing, again. Some hear damage, some think it is called for in the song. Doesn't make anyone a loon. Well, as diehard Journey fans, we all are a bit loony for SP's singing -- doesn't matter which vocal style, does it?

Speaking of which, I have been playing the re-mastered Frontiers record (with the 4 extra songs added in) every evening for 3 weeks straight. I used to only like the 1st 5 songs and didn't care for the B side. Now I absolutely love the whole album -- even Back Talk. Shows that my taste in music have "evolved" -- along with SP's singing styles.

[bluejeangirl76]

Also, compare his speaking voice on Behind the Music, to any interview in 81. Jesus, on Behind the Music, he sounds like the Crypt Keeper.

I laughed to TEARS at that. The Crypt Singer. I'm never going to be able to watch that with a straight face again... it was a struggle anyway what with Cain "crying" like a baby. Now it's all over.

[frfksakes]

Whatever the reasons for the change, I LOVE it!! In fact I prefer his deep voice.

His voice was much more beautiful in the early years, but much sexier and more soulful from Frontiers on.
His voice on Faithfully is just the best, imo

kind of splitting hairs, though. For me, no one can touch his voice live from any period. Even the '86 tour and his Solo tour had some phenomenal performances.

blah, blah, sp's the greatest, blah, blah, blah....

[Journey69]

Oh For Fucks Sake! Its the same with all the Journey albums..You mix in Augeri and the music is still great..I prefer Perry pre frontiers.. The Zenith of his voice was not Frontiers..STFU! It was probably around Infinity..When did he sing anymore songs in the range of Something to hide ,Winds of March or the older songs? He didn't..Escape was amazing..Frontier was too and I liked his voice,BUT..I loved the clearity of it before..That's what I found so incredible about his voice..Its like from Frontier forward,he came back to the pack somewhat.. That's it,I'm voting for Freddy..LOL j/k

[Journey/Survivor]

What was your reaction to Perrys voice the first time you heard the Froniters album in 1983?

I wasnt around at that time so obvisuly i cant comment. No doubt most will agree that his voice was still amazing but it must of been a bit of a shock to hear the massive change in his voice, which appeared to just come out of nowhere.

I've been a huge Journey fan since 1981. I loved Seperate Ways the first time I heard it, and I thought Perry sounded great.
IMO it's a tie between Escape and Frontiers for when Perry's voice was at it's best.

[Journey/Survivor]

What was your reaction to Perrys voice the first time you heard the Froniters album in 1983?

I wasnt around at that time so obvisuly i cant comment. No doubt most will agree that his voice was still amazing but it must of been a bit of a shock to hear the massive change in his voice, which appeared to just come out of nowhere.

Yeah, I remember wondering WTF happened to his voice. Of course, it's a great album, but his voice is so different. In interviews they say it was by design, since the album was darker. He sounds pretty good on the Frontiers tour, tho.

I'm sure that in 1983 Perry was still capable of hitting all of the same notes that he could in 1981, and I do believe that it's true that it was intentional that his voice was a little deeper on Frontiers.

But yeah, I noticed the difference right away.

[Strange Medicine]

This is spin, pure and simple.

Steve Perry sounded consistent (perhaps identical) from Infinity to Escape and you propose that it suddenly "deteroriated" or "devolved" after the Escape tour? Any evidence to verify it?

[youkeepmewaiting]

Funny, i always assumed it was agreed between most Journey fans that Perrys voice obvisouly got damaged, well before TBF.

[frfksakes]

Oh For Fucks Sake! Its the same with all the Journey albums..You mix in Augeri and the music is still great.. I prefer Perry pre frontiers.. The Zenith of his voice was not Frontiers..STFU! It was probably around Infinity..When did he sing anymore songs in the range of Something to hide ,Winds of March or the older songs? He didn't..Escape was amazing..Frontier was too and I liked his voice,BUT..I loved the clearity of it before..That's what I found so incredible about his voice..Its like from Frontier forward,he came back to the pack somewhat.. That's it,I'm voting for Freddy..LOL j/k

I'll give you that his "Zenith," lol, was in the early years. Comiskey Park is a great example, for me. As is Good Morning Girl, Sweet and Simple....

But I PREFER his more soulful, sexy voice. Not by much, but I do. And if he 'came back to the pack,' as you say, it wasn't by much. While his voice may have lost some clarity, it also gained a lot in depth and emotion, imo.
And, hey, I LOVE Freddie. Just brilliant. But for me, he's no match for Perry - esp when it comes to live vocal performances.