When The Voice Went Croaky

[Rick]

[ I would still bet that his damage was from overuse (touring) and steroid usage.

This caught my attention, steroid usage? Is there any proof of this? I didn't hear about that before.

Hi Michael- It hasn't been admitted, but if you put everything together, it fits. THIS IS MY OPINION.
Steroids were supplied to MANY singers back then and up until that time, it hadn't been. The cumulative effects of cortisone and prednisone were not known as far as what longterm effect they'd have on vocalists. It was just "Hey, I need to tour, I need to reduce the swelling. Gimme Gimme". Then with big tours and big pressure to tour, steroids were used to reduce swelling in the throat (trust me, I just used them a few weeks ago). They won't damage you UNLESS YOU DO THEM A LOT. With Steve's heavy touring schedule and high range, you can almost bet that it was necessary for him to maintain the quality of his voice, and I would imagine (NOT BASED ON FACT but OPINION) that he did what he had to to maintain the schedule.

Weight gain, joint and hip problems, and a wrecked voice can result from over use.

Again, this is my opinion, but everything fits...
Now he suffers from "Silent Scream"

I know of prednisone with regards to people gaining weight. I didn't know it's a steroid. It's used in a lot of medical treatments I think.

Does seems to make sense. I remember seeing some pictures of Perry in which I felt he looked heavy. Since he was always such a skinny man it surprised me. But maybe he
always had weight problems. He's pretty heavy now, but maybe that's just the age combined with living the good life

"Silent Scream", funny man. People here probably don't understand that joke

Prednisone is a widely prescribed anti-inflammatory corticosteroid. I would bet my last dollar that SP used them during the tours from '81 to '86, if not '94 and '96. You can see the physical effects in '86 especially, when he was obviously on a really high dose. I'd bet 60 to 80 milligrams. Note the crazy eyes in certain videos and the tell tale facial edema (moon face). I've taken prednisone at one dose or another since I was in my late 20's to battle Chrons disease, and have had the same said physical evidences at higher doses.

I think SP is the best vocalist/frontman to ever grace a stage, and it saddens my heart to realize what he was having to do to continue. He did that for us and his brothers in the band. He didn't need to do it for himself.

[Deb]

Steriod shots ! In his neck ?!?!?

Yep, JBJ spoke about it on Behind the Music. Floors me, some of the stuff I hear these frontmen went through to get through those long-ass tours that they used to do, night after night. Their BTM had quite a few similarities to Journey's. And I think the reason why Bon Jovi are still together today is because when JBJ went through his burn out (done with the band, etc.)...... the guys knew which side of the bread their butter was on and all went off and did side projects and got back together when JBJ was ready. Fired their management and continued on. Call it catering to your frontman, whatever, it worked..........and still is. Mind you I don't think Richie has the ego Neal has.

[bluejeangirl76]

I know of prednisone with regards to people gaining weight. I didn't know it's a steroid. It's used in a lot of medical treatments I think.

They use prednisone for everything now, it seems, and it really does work wonders and helps a lot of different conditions, but they won't leave you on it for extended periods unless absolutely necessary because of all the side effects. For starters it causes sleep problems and sends your appetite out of control in a really scary way, which is why people gain weight from it. I was on it for a very short time and the appetite thing was just frightening to me. I felt like I wasn't going to be able to stop eating.

[Rick]

I know of prednisone with regards to people gaining weight. I didn't know it's a steroid. It's used in a lot of medical treatments I think.

They use prednisone for everything now, it seems, and it really does work wonders and helps a lot of different conditions, but they won't leave you on it for extended periods unless absolutely necessary because of all the side effects. For starters it causes sleep problems and sends your appetite out of control in a really scary way, which is why people gain weight from it. I was on it for a very short time and the appetite thing was just frightening to me. I felt like I wasn't going to be able to stop eating.

Yeah, it's a double edged sword for sure. I never got the weight gain side effect, but until I got used to taking it, I could be a little....... Oh what's the right word? HORNY! That was waaaaay back in the early days of taking it though.

[JohnH]

I think his voice started going during the Escape tour. I saw footage of him in Japan, not being able to hit some notes. Herbie Herbert stated that SP told him that he wasn't going to tour any more after '81. He knew his voice was in trouble then. I blame it on the ridiculous touring schedules.

True. Just Google it, there's a site I saw recently with all of Journey's tour dates. The Escape tour is just beyond belief!!!!!!! There's no doubt that's what started the decline. I was just 15 when Frontiers came out, so not sophisticated enough to detect the change in his voice. He was totally brilliant at the Day on the Green, I did know when stuff sounded like shit onstage at that point, and the only show I'd ever seen to that point that did was VH at the US Festival.

John

[Playitloudforme]

Just a thought. I used to sing extremely well... get out of practice, it doesn't work so well. If went back to singing every day, 5-6 hours a day like I used to.. it would be back. I've also put on weight... that's just age. I also have intense hip problems, all due to when I used to dance for a living (ala dancing with the stars... I used to do the latin international style).

I've never used steroids. I'd imagine he hasn't either. I'm thinking it is just age and use. We aren't his doctors, so making diagnoses based upon presumptions is not a smart idea. Just my two cents on this.

[bluejeangirl76]

I've never used steroids. I'd imagine he hasn't either. I'm thinking it is just age and use. We aren't his doctors, so making diagnoses based upon presumptions is not a smart idea. Just my two cents on this.

Couldn't agree on that more. Unless you're HIM or his doctor, ya don't know shit.
Fun to see how invested people get though. Wait, did I say fun? I meant creepy. Maybe 'freepy'?

[bluejeangirl76]

I've taken prednisone at one dose or another since I was in my late 20's to battle Chrons disease, and have had the same said physical evidences at higher doses.

My sister-in-law has been on INSANELY high doses of it for the same condition. The effects on her were just astounding.
I took small doses for a short period of time and I couldn't deal, I can't imagine having to be on it permanently.

[Rick]

Just a thought. I used to sing extremely well... get out of practice, it doesn't work so well. If went back to singing every day, 5-6 hours a day like I used to.. it would be back. I've also put on weight... that's just age. I also have intense hip problems, all due to when I used to dance for a living (ala dancing with the stars... I used to do the latin international style).

I've never used steroids. I'd imagine he hasn't either. I'm thinking it is just age and use. We aren't his doctors, so making diagnoses based upon presumptions is not a smart idea. Just my two cents on this.

While I respect your stance, he certainly did use them.

[Rick]

I've taken prednisone at one dose or another since I was in my late 20's to battle Chrons disease, and have had the same said physical evidences at higher doses.

My sister-in-law has been on INSANELY high doses of it for the same condition. The effects on her were just astounding.
I took small doses for a short period of time and I couldn't deal, I can't imagine having to be on it permanently.

I'll be alright. Will have to take them until they find a better solution though.

[Playitloudforme]

Just a thought. I used to sing extremely well... get out of practice, it doesn't work so well. If went back to singing every day, 5-6 hours a day like I used to.. it would be back. I've also put on weight... that's just age. I also have intense hip problems, all due to when I used to dance for a living (ala dancing with the stars... I used to do the latin international style).

I've never used steroids. I'd imagine he hasn't either. I'm thinking it is just age and use. We aren't his doctors, so making diagnoses based upon presumptions is not a smart idea. Just my two cents on this.

While I respect your stance, he certainly did use them.

Respectfully, Rick... where did you read his response that he took them?

[Rick]

Just a thought. I used to sing extremely well... get out of practice, it doesn't work so well. If went back to singing every day, 5-6 hours a day like I used to.. it would be back. I've also put on weight... that's just age. I also have intense hip problems, all due to when I used to dance for a living (ala dancing with the stars... I used to do the latin international style).

I've never used steroids. I'd imagine he hasn't either. I'm thinking it is just age and use. We aren't his doctors, so making diagnoses based upon presumptions is not a smart idea. Just my two cents on this.

While I respect your stance, he certainly did use them.

Respectfully, Rick... where did you read his response that he took them?

There isn't one, but I know the trademark look in the face of someone taking corticosteroids. I've had to take them now for 20 years at one dose or another. Back in the '80's the idea of taking them wasn't such a big deal.

If you look at the concert footage of the '86 tour on Youtube, you can see it.

[annie89509]

Oh For Fucks Sake! Its the same with all the Journey albums..You mix in Augeri and the music is still great.. I prefer Perry pre frontiers.. The Zenith of his voice was not Frontiers..STFU! It was probably around Infinity..When did he sing anymore songs in the range of Something to hide ,Winds of March or the older songs? He didn't..Escape was amazing..Frontier was too and I liked his voice,BUT..I loved the clearity of it before..That's what I found so incredible about his voice..Its like from Frontier forward,he came back to the pack somewhat.. That's it,I'm voting for Freddy..LOL j/k

I'll give you that his "Zenith," lol, was in the early years. Comiskey Park is a great example, for me. As is Good Morning Girl, Sweet and Simple....

But I PREFER his more soulful, sexy voice. Not by much, but I do. And if he 'came back to the pack,' as you say, it wasn't by much. While his voice may have lost some clarity, it also gained a lot in depth and emotion, imo.
And, hey, I LOVE Freddie. Just brilliant. But for me, he's no match for Perry - esp when it comes to live vocal performances.

I agree with everything FruitSakes is saying. According to back history, the critics had a field day with the tone of SP's singing. He had a girly voice, he sounded like a baby seal being beaten over the head with a club, blah blah blah. It may have been spin, but SP has said he changed his style to silenced the critics.

Journey69, it's Journey music by name only. Without the Voice, it's just not the same

[BobbyinTN]

Okay, the "I changed my voice for that record because it's what the record needed" is total bullshit.
No singer drastically changes their voice because of the "material". Steve Perry, Ann Wilson, Rod Stewart, Elton John, all have instantly recognizable voices. Why the fuck would they change it for the "material" and if Steve Perry was changing it purposely for ROR or later albums, why didn't he ever change it back to how it was on INFINITY or EVOLUTION.

I think with all the pressure and expectations from studios, Steve Perry obviously couldn't say, "I fucked my voice up", but the excuses could have been a little more believable.

[kgdjpubs]

Okay, the "I changed my voice for that record because it's what the record needed" is total bullshit.
No singer drastically changes their voice because of the "material". Steve Perry, Ann Wilson, Rod Stewart, Elton John, all have instantly recognizable voices. Why the fuck would they change it for the "material" and if Steve Perry was changing it purposely for ROR or later albums, why didn't he ever change it back to how it was on INFINITY or EVOLUTION.

I think with all the pressure and expectations from studios, Steve Perry obviously couldn't say, "I fucked my voice up", but the excuses could have been a little more believable.

For what it's worth, Perry DID change his vocal delivery pretty strongly in the timeframe we are talking about. Street Talk/ROR is a much different vocal style compared to Escape. Frontiers was probably the beginning of the change. Obviously, Perry was going for a different style on the later material. Some things are easy to do--record in the morning, while your voice is still a little dry, as opposed to later in the day. You can also intentionally add rasp to your voice, if you know what you are doing without damaging your voice. Listen to the Arnel clips. The guy can do a fairly good impression of Bon Jovi, Bryan Adams and Steve Perry. They don't sound alike.

That being said, there is a more going on here than intentional vocal changes (style/delivery/phrasing).
Perry saying he intentionally changed his voice wasn't lying--he did. He just wasn't saying everything.

[Journey/Survivor]

Dave Bickler (He was the orginal singer of Eye Of The Tiger) was Survivor's first lead singer. On Survivor's first album from 1979 Bickler had a very clean sounding singing voice that was pretty smooth in sound. But after that his voice while still very good started to get a little raspier and less smooth or clear. After heavy touring for Survivor's Eye Of The Tiger tour in 1982/1983 Bickler had developed swollen lymph nodes on his throat and had to have surgery. After the surgery he went into the studio with Survivor and recorded their Caught In The Game album. But he and the rest of the band decided that he needed a long break, and the band decided that they couldn't wait that long so they wound up getting a new singer.

But back in 1993 Dave Bickler rejoined Survivor as their lead singer and he sounded great again, he sounded clearer and smoother like he had on their first album.

So over those ten years (It probably didn't take that long) he had fully recovered and sounded as good as ever.

Bickler had/has a high range too. Not as high as Perry used to, but still pretty high. I definitely think that guys who try to sing in a higher range on a regular basis are more likely to get "nodes" than guys with deeper voices.

[Journey/Survivor]

[ I would still bet that his damage was from overuse (touring) and steroid usage.

This caught my attention, steroid usage? Is there any proof of this? I didn't hear about that before.

Hi Michael- It hasn't been admitted, but if you put everything together, it fits. THIS IS MY OPINION.
Steroids were supplied to MANY singers back then and up until that time, it hadn't been. The cumulative effects of cortisone and prednisone were not known as far as what longterm effect they'd have on vocalists. It was just "Hey, I need to tour, I need to reduce the swelling. Gimme Gimme". Then with big tours and big pressure to tour, steroids were used to reduce swelling in the throat (trust me, I just used them a few weeks ago). They won't damage you UNLESS YOU DO THEM A LOT. With Steve's heavy touring schedule and high range, you can almost bet that it was necessary for him to maintain the quality of his voice, and I would imagine (NOT BASED ON FACT but OPINION) that he did what he had to to maintain the schedule.

Weight gain, joint and hip problems, and a wrecked voice can result from over use.

Again, this is my opinion, but everything fits...
Now he suffers from "Silent Scream"

I know of prednisone with regards to people gaining weight. I didn't know it's a steroid. It's used in a lot of medical treatments I think.

Does seems to make sense. I remember seeing some pictures of Perry in which I felt he looked heavy. Since he was always such a skinny man it surprised me. But maybe he
always had weight problems. He's pretty heavy now, but maybe that's just the age combined with living the good life

"Silent Scream", funny man. People here probably don't understand that joke

Prednisone is a widely prescribed anti-inflammatory corticosteroid. I would bet my last dollar that SP used them during the tours from '81 to '86, if not '94 and '96. You can see the physical effects in '86 especially, when he was obviously on a really high dose. I'd bet 60 to 80 milligrams. Note the crazy eyes in certain videos and the tell tale facial edema (moon face). I've taken prednisone at one dose or another since I was in my late 20's to battle Chrons disease, and have had the same said physical evidences at higher doses.

I think SP is the best vocalist/frontman to ever grace a stage, and it saddens my heart to realize what he was having to do to continue. He did that for us and his brothers in the band. He didn't need to do it for himself.

A friend of mines German Shepherd had a form of Chrons disease so he had to give the dog Prednisone for many years untill the dog died last year.

[Shadowsong]

Gosh darn,

Leave him be!



He's just a man



Flesh & blood



He has mentioned some conditions that keep him from touring.

Maybe he has been on some meds
Everything has a price
I'm sure he does the best he can

Leave him be.
Wish him the best as he travels through time
Gosh, none of us are getting any younger &
we all have to make our way through this journey we call "life"


Steve...
Maybe a kiss from a fair maiden
pure of heart & endless imagination
could turn a frog into a prince...

[Rockindeano]

I definitely know why Steve Perry stays retired.

I cannot blame him one bit.

[brywool]

I definitely know why Steve Perry stays retired.

I cannot blame him one bit.

Oh Fine Cindy Brady, keep it to yourself!



"I've got a thecret, I've got a thecret"

[Red13JoePa]

Steriod shots ! In his neck ?!?!?

Yep, JBJ spoke about it on Behind the Music. Floors me, some of the stuff I hear these frontmen went through to get through those long-ass tours that they used to do, night after night. Their BTM had quite a few similarities to Journey's. And I think the reason why Bon Jovi are still together today is because when JBJ went through his burn out (done with the band, etc.)...... the guys knew which side of the bread their butter was on and all went off and did side projects and got back together when JBJ was ready. Fired their management and continued on. Call it catering to your frontman, whatever, it worked..........and still is. Mind you I don't think Richie has the ego Neal has.

Journey "catered to" him 9 years the first time he flaked on them.
Exactly how long do you think they should wait around on him a second time?

Perhaps Mr Bongiovi had a slightly more considerate attitude towards HIS bandmates as well and created an atmosphere that was actually conducive to reconvening at a definate time.
Even during the Blaze Of Glory/YGII, which he did solo, he gave a shoutout to the band on the liner notes, calling them the best bandmates in the world or some shit. He got more bees when he came back with the honey he gave off during that period than he might have by acting like a self-important aloof prima donna.

[scarygirl]

Whether he took predisone is not my concern. Predisone while a steriod isn't in the same class as the steroids that athletes take. If he took such medications, he obviously had a preexisting medical condition we knew nothing about. These type of medications can damage a voice. It is my understaning that is what happened to Foreigner's Lou Grahm. All the meds he took to beat Brain Cancer detroyed his voice. God bless them both.

[Red13JoePa]

Yea, Gramm's on prescribed 'roids due to the brain tumor and they've audibly deepened his voice, WAY more than perry's voice ever deepened.

[mistiejourney]

I know of prednisone with regards to people gaining weight. I didn't know it's a steroid. It's used in a lot of medical treatments I think.

They use prednisone for everything now, it seems, and it really does work wonders and helps a lot of different conditions, but they won't leave you on it for extended periods unless absolutely necessary because of all the side effects. For starters it causes sleep problems and sends your appetite out of control in a really scary way, which is why people gain weight from it. I was on it for a very short time and the appetite thing was just frightening to me. I felt like I wasn't going to be able to stop eating.

Yeah, it's a double edged sword for sure. I never got the weight gain side effect, but until I got used to taking it, I could be a little....... Oh what's the right word? HORNY! That was waaaaay back in the early days of taking it though.

Horny? Some people have all the luck - I took it for five days and all I wanted to do was clean my kitchen! (Took it for bronchitis).

[Rick]

Whether he took predisone is not my concern. Predisone while a steriod isn't in the same class as the steroids that athletes take. If he took such medications, he obviously had a preexisting medical condition we knew nothing about. These type of medications can damage a voice. It is my understaning that is what happened to Foreigner's Lou Grahm. All the meds he took to beat Brain Cancer detroyed his voice. God bless them both.

I don't think he took prednisone, I think it was more like what is described in this article.

http://www.musicbizadvice.com/steroid_shots.htm

[mistiejourney]

Steriod shots ! In his neck ?!?!?

Yep, JBJ spoke about it on Behind the Music. Floors me, some of the stuff I hear these frontmen went through to get through those long-ass tours that they used to do, night after night. Their BTM had quite a few similarities to Journey's. And I think the reason why Bon Jovi are still together today is because when JBJ went through his burn out (done with the band, etc.)...... the guys knew which side of the bread their butter was on and all went off and did side projects and got back together when JBJ was ready. Fired their management and continued on. Call it catering to your frontman, whatever, it worked..........and still is. Mind you I don't think Richie has the ego Neal has.

Journey "catered to" him 9 years the first time he flaked on them.
Exactly how long do you think they should wait around on him a second time?

Perhaps Mr Bongiovi had a slightly more considerate attitude towards HIS bandmates as well and created an atmosphere that was actually conducive to reconvening at a definate time.
Even during the Blaze Of Glory/YGII, which he did solo, he gave a shoutout to the band on the liner notes, calling them the best bandmates in the world or some shit. He got more bees when he came back with the honey he gave off during that period than he might have by acting like a self-important aloof prima donna.

Bingo! I can only speculate, but it seems to me once Perry hurt the hip and (a) didn't want to tour and (b) didn't even want to perform at the Grammy's - WYLAW had been nominated - Neal and Jon probably thought "Oh no..., not again...". Perry had a full 9 years during which he did his FTLOSM and tour, with Journey in limbo. Now they had success again and Perry was too burnt, too hurt, too whatever to follow through.

I was pissed when they went on with Augeri, because I thought they were being totally heartless! Then I realized that Perry did not want to tour, because if he did he would have had the surgery necessary for him to tour much sooner than he did. No...surgery is not a group decision, I realize that. But if Perry was motivated enough he would have done what he needed to do to be a part of the group, and not expect four other guys to revolve around him.

Like I said...I can only speculate based on my observations.

[brywool]

Whether he took predisone is not my concern. Predisone while a steriod isn't in the same class as the steroids that athletes take. If he took such medications, he obviously had a preexisting medical condition we knew nothing about. These type of medications can damage a voice. It is my understaning that is what happened to Foreigner's Lou Grahm. All the meds he took to beat Brain Cancer detroyed his voice. God bless them both.

Prednisone and cortisone are used for the voice a lot. And they're in pill form, not in shot form.

[Journey/Survivor]

Bingo! I can only speculate, but it seems to me once Perry hurt the hip and (a) didn't want to tour and (b) didn't even want to perform at the Grammy's - WYLAW had been nominated - Neal and Jon probably thought "Oh no..., not again...". Perry had a full 9 years during which he did his FTLOSM and tour, with Journey in limbo. Now they had success again and Perry was too burnt, too hurt, too whatever to follow through.

I was pissed when they went on with Augeri, because I thought they were being totally heartless! Then I realized that Perry did not want to tour, because if he did he would have had the surgery necessary for him to tour much sooner than he did. No...surgery is not a group decision, I realize that. But if Perry was motivated enough he would have done what he needed to do to be a part of the group, and not expect four other guys to revolve around him.

Like I said...I can only speculate based on my observations.

Very, very well said

I love Steve Perry's singing. He's an extremely close second on my list of favorite singers of all time. I've been a huge fan of him and all of Journey since 1981 at the age of 9. Steve Perry was an amazing singer, and I think that for the most part he has been great to his fans, and seems like a nice guy all the way around.

I'd love nothing more than for him to still sound as great as he did in the Escape and Frontiers days, and to get a long great with the rest of the members of Journey, and make a new album with them followed by a long tour. But those things are not going to happen.

Mistiejourney, what you said is the same kind of thing that I've been saying for years.

Journey were completely justified in continuing on with a new singer after Perry refused to get the surgery that he needed at the time. That is if any of that hip stuff was ever true, which I've always had my doubts about. But one way or another the "Perry loons" need to understand that the rest of the band were totally justified in hiring a new singer when they did with Augeri.

These claims that some people make about it not being JOURNEY without Steve Perry simply are NOT true.
Journey existed before Steve Perry was in the band, and now they exist after Steve Perry has chosen not to be in Journey. And Journey is first and foremost Neal schon's band.

[squirt1]

I'll go with whatever Deano knows which sounds like a good reason. I'll guess he has a progressive disease, has over toured yet sounded good with David Pack 2yrs ago, or has been threatened. Geez Deano put up 15 choices. I gather that you think he has to do this?

[mistiejourney]

Bingo! I can only speculate, but it seems to me once Perry hurt the hip and (a) didn't want to tour and (b) didn't even want to perform at the Grammy's - WYLAW had been nominated - Neal and Jon probably thought "Oh no..., not again...". Perry had a full 9 years during which he did his FTLOSM and tour, with Journey in limbo. Now they had success again and Perry was too burnt, too hurt, too whatever to follow through.

I was pissed when they went on with Augeri, because I thought they were being totally heartless! Then I realized that Perry did not want to tour, because if he did he would have had the surgery necessary for him to tour much sooner than he did. No...surgery is not a group decision, I realize that. But if Perry was motivated enough he would have done what he needed to do to be a part of the group, and not expect four other guys to revolve around him.

Like I said...I can only speculate based on my observations.

Very, very well said

I love Steve Perry's singing. He's an extremely close second on my list of favorite singers of all time. I've been a huge fan of him and all of Journey since 1981 at the age of 9. Steve Perry was an amazing singer, and I think that for the most part he has been great to his fans, and seems like a nice guy all the way around.

I'd love nothing more than for him to still sound as great as he did in the Escape and Frontiers days, and to get a long great with the rest of the members of Journey, and make a new album with them followed by a long tour. But those things are not going to happen.

Mistiejourney, what you said is the same kind of thing that I've been saying for years.

Journey were completely justified in continuing on with a new singer after Perry refused to get the surgery that he needed at the time. That is if any of that hip stuff was ever true, which I've always had my doubts about. But one way or another the "Perry loons" need to understand that the rest of the band were totally justified in hiring a new singer when they did with Augeri.

These claims that some people make about it not being JOURNEY without Steve Perry simply are NOT true.
Journey existed before Steve Perry was in the band, and now they exist after Steve Perry has chosen not to be in Journey. And Journey is first and foremost Neal schon's band.

Actually, that's true! Lose Neal Schon and you DO lose Journey. I've always thought that.