OT: The Obama Express

[Rockindeano]

I am of the opinion that his stance on opening lines of communication with the likes of Chavez and Ahmadinejad is flat-out stupidity.

I believe Obama is saying that the George W. Bush policy of arrogantly avoiding communication with world leaders who will not rubber-stamp his maverick cowboy style of leadership is not the right way to conduct yourself as a world superpower. When did anyone ever get any issues resolved without communication and negotiation? It simply doesn't work. If my neighbor is mad at me, avoiding him and arrogantly flipping him the bird will not help matters. Talking with him to resolve issues will.

Disagree with you here Voyager. Hillary would be much better in foreign diplomacy in my opinion. Barack seems too trusting. These rouge world leader assholes need to know we are the hand that feeds them.

Hillary has said that just opening up lines of communication to anyone is not the right thing to do.

[conversationpc]

I am of the opinion that his stance on opening lines of communication with the likes of Chavez and Ahmadinejad is flat-out stupidity.

I believe Obama is saying that the George W. Bush policy of arrogantly avoiding communication with world leaders who will not rubber-stamp his maverick cowboy style of leadership is not the right way to conduct yourself as a world superpower. When did anyone ever get any issues resolved without communication and negotiation? It simply doesn't work. If my neighbor is mad at me, avoiding him and arrogantly flipping him the bird will not help matters. Talking with him to resolve issues will.

If you think you can deal with nutso dictators like Hugo Chavez and Ahmadinejad, you're nuts. It's crazy to even talk seriously with those dudes, especially the latter of the two. Most radical Islamists believe that you're weak if you even attempt negotiation with them. They may lie to your face and say that they want to talk but basically all they are doing is buying time to strengthen themselves.

[Voyager]

I don't think Obama plans to sit down with any of these dictators and beg them to put their weapons away. I think he just wants to open the lines of communication. For example, if he can get Iran to work with the USA instead of against us - it's all good. The citizens of Iran for the most part like the USA. They just don't like our dictator Bush anymore than we like their dictator.

Bush sure in the fuck isn't getting a damn thing accomplished with his arrogant for-us-or-against-us mentality. I don't think you need to go to the other extreme, but I don't believe Obama is saying he wants to do that.

Obama is a different type of leader than Bush. Bush acts like a brutal dictator and uses muscle and firepower as threats to try to get his way. Obama uses intelligence and reasoning to make decisions and get things done.

[Blueskies]

I don't think Obama plans to sit down with any of these dictators and beg them to put their weapons away. I think he just wants to open the lines of communication. For example, if he can get Iran to work with the USA instead of against us - it's all good. The citizens of Iran for the most part like the USA. They just don't like our dictator Bush anymore than we like their dictator.

Bush sure in the fuck isn't getting a damn thing accomplished with his arrogant for-us-or-against-us mentality. I don't think you need to go to the other extreme, but I don't believe Obama is saying he wants to do that.

Obama is a different type of leader than Bush. Bush acts like a brutal dictator and uses muscle and firepower as threats to try to get his way. Obama uses intelligence and reasoning to make decisions and get things done.

well said

[ohsherrie]

I'm voting for Hillary tomorrow in the Virginia primary, even though, as I told Dean, I think Obama will take this state.

Like many of you have said in this thread, I wasn't sure exactly what he meant by "change" or how he intended to bring it about. I'm still not, but I'm actually liking what I'm hearing in his campaign ads better than Hillary's. That's not to say I think he'll make a better president, but I do think he's more in touch with the issues that are important to the working(or former working) people of this state.

Even though I'm afraid Obama's idealism may meet with a tidal wave of the cold hard facts of DC life if he wins the presidency, I think he has the right ideas. I know for damned sure he's better than the alternative.

I've been doing a bit of research on McCain. I'm thinking that behind that good old boy war hero there's something almost as scary as Bush, and if he had the Rove/Cheney/Rumsfeld mafia with him he'd be terrifying.

If anyone want's links to sources, as seems to be the case with everything I say lately, I have them.

[strangegrey]

I am of the opinion that his stance on opening lines of communication with the likes of Chavez and Ahmadinejad is flat-out stupidity.

I believe Obama is saying that the George W. Bush policy of arrogantly avoiding communication with world leaders who will not rubber-stamp his maverick cowboy style of leadership is not the right way to conduct yourself as a world superpower. When did anyone ever get any issues resolved without communication and negotiation? It simply doesn't work. If my neighbor is mad at me, avoiding him and arrogantly flipping him the bird will not help matters. Talking with him to resolve issues will.

Woah!!
A completely inappropriate over simplification of the middle east. While Dubya's foreign policy has been a disaster, simply chosing the opposite isn't the solution either. The analogy of neighbor is, well, naive....and again over simplified. You suggest that the neighbor has justification for being mad at me and I have zero reason to feel the same towards him. You fail to mention my relationship with some of the other neighbors, both good and bad. You forget to mention the fact that religion brings significant (and in some cases, unjust) presure to the problem. You also forget to mention that the neighbor has stated publically, that it is his foreign policy to bring about the destruction of not only my house, but my family living inside.

Sorry, Dubya's done this wrong....but Obama's plan is just plain fucking nuts. It's going to get alot of innocent, US citizens killed.

When it comes to who's got the foreign policy mojo and experience to get this problem solved, I'm going to tip my hat to Hilary.

[ohsherrie]

When it comes to who's got the foreign policy mojo and experience to get this problem solved, I'm going to tip my hat to Hilary.

I agree.

I think the reason Obama is bringing in so many people(especially the young people) is that his idealism is as naive as theirs.

The biggest problem Hillary has to face right now though is the super delegates(such as Ted Kennedy) who are more concerned with the future of the party than the future of the nation. Obama has energized the Democratic party more than anyone since Bill Clinton and he's bringing in even more diverse, young blood than even Bill did.

Yet another example of the the two party system becoming more about the power of the party than the good of the nation.

[Rockindeano]

Ted Kennedy is trying to ride Obama for some future gravy training. He is a fat old lying asshole. Tell you one thing;

Hillary is going to sweep the big three states remaining, Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania. She still has a shot to win. And if she does, Teddy is out....

Now, not crying over spilt milk here, but the Dems have something the GOP does not in the primary season. The Dems have proportional representation instead of winner take all. Hell, if they had winner take all, she would almost have this locked up, with her wins in CA, NY and NJ.

Don't forget, Florida and Michigan will come into play, and she won those states handily.

[ProgRocker53]

Obama's plan is just plain fucking nuts. It's going to get alot of innocent, US citizens killed.

I'm not as up to speed on my politics as I should be. I'm leaning towards voting Obama in the Ohio primary but this has raised a flag. What exactly is Obama's plan? If it's as insane as you say it is, I may have to go with Billary.

[ohsherrie]

Ted Kennedy is trying to ride Obama for some future gravy training. He is a fat old lying asshole. Tell you one thing;

Hillary is going to sweep the big three states remaining, Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania. She still has a shot to win. And if she does, Teddy is out....

Now, not crying over spilt milk here, but the Dems have something the GOP does not in the primary season. The Dems have proportional representation instead of winner take all. Hell, if they had winner take all, she would almost have this locked up, with her wins in CA, NY and NJ.

Don't forget, Florida and Michigan will come into play, and she won those states handily.

Yeah, Ted's sort or become like the eccentric old uncle who's still head of the family by default.

I'm holding out for the end run too. The nomination isn't decided by the primaries and caucuses, or even the super-delegates for that matter.

I'm just trying to prepare realistically.

[strangegrey]

Obama's plan is just plain fucking nuts. It's going to get alot of innocent, US citizens killed.

I'm not as up to speed on my politics as I should be. I'm leaning towards voting Obama in the Ohio primary but this has raised a flag. What exactly is Obama's plan? If it's as insane as you say it is, I may have to go with Billary.

Read his website...he's got all of his issues clearly stated (something McCain wouldn't DREAM of doing). That's actually a real nice thing about Obama...he's actually put down in writing, what he stands for.

But getting to the point, he's essentially made statements that he will treat enemies and allies alike, with respect to diplomatic discussion. People who hate Bush are quick to judge his foreign policy as saber rattling....but they also fail to see Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, etc actions and statements as the same.

Dimplomacy is a two way street...and when you start inviting in genocidal maniac's like Ahmadinejad in for coffee, scones and a chat on how to deal with problems that can't be solved over coffee and a chat...you will likely invite more inappropriate behavior from these people, not less.

Like I said, I don't agree with Dubya's moves. But you don't call up the guy that just told the school that he fucked your sister (irrespective of the truth of such an assertion), and say "Hey man, we're all friends, can we discuss this?" Rediculous. The next day, he might go to schools with actually fucking your sister...instead of just talking it.

[Rockindeano]

Franks pretty much spot on, except the fucker spells ridiculous rediculous

Obama is a bit naive in foreign policy. Let's hope he surrounds himself with smart people. Obama is sharp, so I imagine he will do that. I would nominate Bill Clinton, secretary of State.

Frank, Obama is a bit off as you said, but McCain is on record as saying, "We'll stay in Iraq 100 years if we have to." Oops. Look for that to bite him in his old ass.

[scarygirl]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

[strangegrey]

I'm really in a strange place right now. 2 years ago, I would have jumped off a bridge if I even thought about wanting Hillary to win...but I'll be damned if I let McCain fuck up this country from another 4 years on top of what that piece of shit currently in office has done for the past 8 years....and I'll be doubly damned if I let a twerp from Chicago thats over sensitive about his dumbo ears force this country into the equivalent of the fat kid in grade school that every up-and-coming bully likes to beat up on before he earns his bully wings.

I know that Hillary's got a mean streak in her...and that's good enough for me. The Bitch has some balls...and I like that! I know when push comes to shove, if she needs to, she wont have a problem shoving some F-117's up the ass of some dumbass motherfucker that decides to saber rattle against the US.

[strangegrey]

Franks pretty much spot on, except the fucker spells ridiculous rediculous

LOL...Sorry dude, when I get all heated up, last thing I worry about is speeling!

[Rockindeano]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

Who the Hell is talking negotiating? We are talking diplomacy. That's a word you fuckin neocons should look up.

[strangegrey]

Frank, Obama is a bit off as you said, but McCain is on record as saying, "We'll stay in Iraq 100 years if we have to." Oops. Look for that to bite him in his old ass.

Sadly, it wont until after the RNC...meaning that a worthy candidate from the Elephant party would be denied the opportunity to get a chance. However, having said that, I question the very possibility that the republican party could produce such a candidate. They haven't done that in over 28 years!

[Rockindeano]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

Also, by your line of thinking, have you noticed just about the entire fucking Earth hates us? We have about 5 allies. Gee, I seem to remember after Clinton left, we had over a hundred. WTF you think happened?

[scarygirl]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

Who the Hell is talking negotiating? We are talking diplomacy. That's a word you fuckin neocons should look up.

You call it diplomacy I call it negotiation. It's all the same. You can't negotiate with someone whose out to steal and kill your very way of life.

[Rockindeano]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

Who the Hell is talking negotiating? We are talking diplomacy. That's a word you fuckin neocons should look up.

You call it diplomacy I call it negotiation. It's all the same. You can't negotiate with someone whose out to steal and kill your very way of life.

LOL, So Russia, China, Iran Pakistan and India are out to ruin our way of life huh?

The world hates us because of your line of thinking and that of your party's leaders. It's called cowboy diplomacy. It doesn't work if you haven't yet fucking noticed!

[scarygirl]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

Who the Hell is talking negotiating? We are talking diplomacy. That's a word you fuckin neocons should look up.

You call it diplomacy I call it negotiation. It's all the same. You can't negotiate with someone whose out to steal and kill your very way of life.

LOL, So Russia, China, Iran Pakistan and India are out to ruin our way of life huh?

The world hates us because of your line of thinking and that of your party's leaders. It's called cowboy diplomacy. It doesn't work if you haven't yet fucking noticed!

I was speaking of the Muslim Extremists who very much want us dead.

[Andrew]

From a perspective waaaaay aways from the USA, it seems that Hilary is experience, familiarity and ass-kicking...pushy and stubborn, but would be a good president. She's popular here.
Obaba is someone we are just getting to know, but I like his talk and I like his demeanor and I like his freshness.

McCain is seen as just another waaay old fart that would carry on the mantre of the current administration, which is pretty much hated by all.

[Andrew]

You never negotiate with your enemies. Life is not a tea party.

Also, by your line of thinking, have you noticed just about the entire fucking Earth hates us? We have about 5 allies. Gee, I seem to remember after Clinton left, we had over a hundred. WTF you think happened?

And one more went south when we booted John ass-kisser Howard out of office last November. Good riddence!

I strongly believe our new goverment will adopt a strong co-operation with a new Democrat president, but not so if the Republicans remain.

[strangegrey]

McCain is seen as just another waaay old fart that would carry on the mantre of the current administration, which is pretty much hated by all.

Andrew, thanks for the perspective. I, for one, appreciate it.

I'll say this. My wife and I were talking the other night...and we both agreed that the next president needs to be able to represent the needs of the people that drive this economy. namely, 30-50 year olds. A 71-year old president with outdated ideals and a policy-list grafted from the former president (who is largely a failure) is a big mistake. Obama and Hillary both have the tools to represent the economic drivers here in this country.

I remember, a few months ago, saying to her...."this is an intersting time we live in...for the next president will either be a woman or a black man." Just 5-10 years ago, it seemed almost implausable that either could happen....and now, we're on the cusp of watching one or the other happen.

[Rockindeano]

From a perspective waaaaay aways from the USA, it seems that Hilary is experience, familiarity and ass-kicking...pushy and stubborn, but would be a good president. She's popular here.
Obaba is someone we are just getting to know, but I like his talk and I like his demeanor and I like his freshness.

McCain is seen as just another waaay old fart that would carry on the mantre of the current administration, which is pretty much hated by all.

I got a question for you Andy.

Have you been tutoring stevew in spelling?

[scarygirl]

Why don't we just get it over with and elect one person to preside over the whole she bang, ala ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. It's what we're headed toward anyway. That way no one will disagree. We won't be allowed to.

[Rockindeano]

McCain is seen as just another waaay old fart that would carry on the mantre of the current administration, which is pretty much hated by all.

Andrew, thanks for the perspective. I, for one, appreciate it.

I'll say this. My wife and I were talking the other night...and we both agreed that the next president needs to be able to represent the needs of the people that drive this economy. namely, 30-50 year olds. A 71-year old president with outdated ideals and a policy-list grafted from the former president (who is largely a failure) is a big mistake. Obama and Hillary both have the tools to represent the economic drivers here in this country.

I remember, a few months ago, saying to her...."this is an intersting time we live in...for the next president will either be a woman or a black man." Just 5-10 years ago, it seemed almost implausable that either could happen....and now, we're on the cusp of watching one or the other happen.

Nice point.

Have you heard McCain say "I have no idea how the economy works?" Ooops, add another catchy General election ad.

[Andrew]

Hilary or Obama are both seen in a positive light here. No one expects a Republican canidate to win, due to the level of negative sentiments held against Bush.

To offer McCain as the very BEST canidate is being seen here with some mirth! Bring on the fresh blood....

[Rockindeano]

Why don't we just get it over with and elect one person to preside over the whole she bang, ala ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. It's what we're headed toward anyway. That way no one will disagree. We won't be allowed to.

Stop bitching. You already have a guy who thinks he runs the world and there is plenty of arguing going on.

The world is important. We aren't the only ones who live in it. You close minded cons need to understand that the US does not rule the world. They drive it, yes, but do not rule it.

[Andrew]

Why don't we just get it over with and elect one person to preside over the whole she bang, ala ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. It's what we're headed toward anyway. That way no one will disagree. We won't be allowed to.

Nooooooooo thank you!

The very thought of someone like Bush buying his way into power to govern over me gives me chills. His administration had enough pull over the previous goverment of Australia as it was - and not many liked that (hence their removal!)