Re-Recording The Classics and Perry's Involvement

[STORY_TELLER]

the fans still flock to the shows despite the fact that we're now 3 singers out from perry.

Most people just don't give a shit if he's Journey's singer or not, as long as Journey the band shows up and plays.

Sorry Joepa..."Flock" is a GROSS overstatement, when describing crowds at a Journey concert! As far as your argument about most people not giving a shit that Perry is the lead singer...I actually agree with this. Not for the reasons you have of thinking Perry sucks compared to Augeri, and every other Journey front man. I think it simply comes down to people wanting to hear the music. The real issue here is that most people simply have ZERO idea that the "Journey" they're seeing in 2008 isn't the same group of guys who were performing this music 25 years ago! I would bet my last dollar that aside from people who visit Journey fan websites, there aren't 10 people at a Journey concert who even know that the lead singer isn't the same guy from 25 years ago!



John from Boston

Of the casual fans who attend today, I'd say that's true.

However, you bring back Perry (which i know won't happen), advertise it as such, put together a new album and tour and you will see TBF sales figures return and a sold out stadium tour happen. The majority of fans have not forgotten the incarnation of the band. They're just ignoring the one without Perry.

[Red13JoePa]

The sheds are 10,000-20,000 Story Sourceror.

The arenas Genesis and The Police play are 10-20,000.


Bitch slap that.


fuckin idiot.

Except there's between 1800 and 4000 people showing up, and Van Halen, The Police and Genesis are selling them out.

Not in the big markets they play. New York Jones Beach, Philly (Camden) Tweeter Center, LA Hollywood Bowl, Greek ALWAYS push the 20 k limit. They get the 4,000 crowds in the second-tier markets.
Well, I can agree with both yourself and Enigma that perry hitching his wagon back to Schon/Cain in Journey would get him back to being a draw instead iof having to play the 2500-3000 seaters he did last time out by himself.

[STORY_TELLER]

The sheds are 10,000-20,000 Story Sourceror.

The arenas Genesis and The Police play are 10-20,000.


Bitch slap that.


fuckin idiot.

Except there's between 1800 and 4000 people showing up, and Van Halen, The Police and Genesis are selling them out.

Not in the big markets they play. New York Jones Beach, Philly (Camden) Tweeter Center, LA Hollywood Bowl, Greek ALWAYS push the 20 k limit. They get the 4,000 crowds in the second-tier markets.
Well, I can agree with both yourself and Enigma that perry hitching his wagon back to Schon/Cain in Journey would get him back to being a draw instead iof having to play the 2500-3000 seaters he did last time out by himself.

Wow, you're really going for a fourth slap, huh?

Oh I see, now you're going to omit facts to support your bizarre perspective. Okay, here comes some more facts to slap you again:

The only time Journey (post Perry) has sold the venues you've mentioned is when they tour in partnership with another 80's generation band. A double ticket (or in the case of the upcoming tour, a triple ticket). They do not sell these seats on their own and they have no chance of doing so without Perry (and you know it).

Perry comes back (never happen, I agree), but they do and they get the likes of Daughtry opening for them.

I do agree that Perry solo would not sell out arenas, of course, but I also guarantee you he wouldn't need a double ticket to sell out his own tour.

So, you want to go for a 5th slap or have you had enough? Please keep it coming, it's so much fun watching you twist in the wind.

[jrnyman28]

His "agreement" would have been only that Journey could not re-record the songs. Anyone could cover Journey material as long as they pay the royalties.

But isn't what they're doing "re-recording" these songs? Sure, some of us might accuse them of "covering" the music, but there are some original songwriters still present in the band calling themselves "Journey", so it seems to me that they are not just "covering" the music. I guess it's all semantics.

Yes, they are re-recording them. That is what Perry blocked with his 'severence package'.

Again, it's not that he "signed off", it's that he was in an incredible position of power when he left the band and he was able to strong-arm a ridiculous agreement concerning Journey and their own material. But I am sure there was NO WAY Journey would have agreed to an indefinate time period.

I guess this is where we "part company", philosophically speaking. I don't find anything even remotely "ridiculous" about Perry having power over his own material. I wouldn't feel any differently if it were Jonathan Cain who had left the band, and wanted to protect music he wrote or co-wrote. On songs that were co-wrote, I believe ALL artists involved should have to agree to how the music is used and whether or not it is recorded by someone else. To me, it's like some other guy coming along and releasing a movie called "Saving Private Ryan", with the same exact story line, but with some "replacement" actors. I suspect Steven Spielberg probably wouldn't allow such a thing to happen. I realize that this music was performed under the "Journey" name, but as far as I'm concerned, the person or people, who are responsible for writing a song should have the ultimate control over how their lyrics are used and by whom! It really is VERY surprising to me that all writers don't have to agree to how their own songs are used. Apparently the music business is a lot more relaxed than I thought it was!


John from Boston

My point is not about right or wrong actually, it's that it is a rarity to have this kind of agreement established. Journey legally would have the right to re-record their (Journey) songs. Their only obligation would have been to pay roylties to the writers which include Perry.

Because Perry was in a position of power upon leaving the band, he was able to negotiate this unusual deal. I am not saying it is wrong, just unusual.

[jrnyman28]

Neal and Jon can record cd's until they are old and gray and it probably wont impact the music world in any significant way. The only difference is that if they record with Perry, raspy or not, they get Grammy nods.

I doubt that would happen today...things are so much worse than they were 10 years ago.

[Voyager]

Foreigner is pretty much doing what Journey is doing: Mick Jones hired a Lou Gramm soundalike and they are making money touring by playing the Lou Gramm era hits. The one thing they haven't done - to their credit - is re-record the Lou Gramm era classics. There is simply no valid reason to do such a thing.

[jrnyman28]

Although I hesitate to even compare the two situations, I can tell you that there are MANY people (myself included) who cringe listening to Paul Rodgers singing Queen's music! I realize that Paul Rodgers has a whole lot of fans, across the world, but I think he is HORRENDOUS on Queen's material. I watched the guy on the VH1 Rock Honors show, and I couldn't even recognize classic Queen tracks, because the arrangement of these great songs were changed so much. I realize that not everyone shares my viewpoint on the Queen issue, but I feel as though changing such classic songs as drastically as they have, doesn't honor the legacy of Freddie Mercury!

John from Boston

I agree completely.

But just to reiterate, Queen has the right, just as Journey does.

[jrnyman28]

Is he still being paid as the "sixth member" for any future work or was that part of the expired agreement as well? I seem to remember that part of him leaving the band was that he would continue to be paid on all future work/tours/DVD's, etc. (whether he actually had anything to do with it or not) for a period of time after the separation.

Actually< I think he was paid 1/6th on all touring because they are using "his" music. I do not think he was paid 1/6th of Arrival, RED13 and Generations (except maybe In Self Defense). But I could be wrong.

[jrnyman28]

Yes Perry is freaking incredible..Put Arrival right after Escape,and I will guarantee you it would have sold like hotcakes even without Perry..It all depends on when its put out..AOR isn't popular right now,so its hardly a gauge for success

Hahahaha yeah bloody right it would of, no way in hell it would of. Sorry, and it didn't. Put anything back then, and it would of sold. Arrival? pleaaase, I don't think so...

Why don't you try listening to it ! I can name 8 songs that rock as much as any off Escape..And while I liked Generations also,They needed to leave out Schon,valory and cain..ouch..

Yeah I bought the album in 2001, I like it. But, it's weak album when you put it next to any Journey album with exception of Generations. Arrival is as good as the next "average" AOR album, and that's as far as it goes. Escape is miles ahead, musically, vocally, lyric wise, chart wise, success wise as well, those are the facts. And as good as an Album Arrival is, it falls short in these departments "Originality, Vocally, Production, The time is was made, The competition it was up against, everything".

IMO Arrival is better than ROR. But had you put out Arirval right after Escape it would have sold as well as Frontiers. Just to be fair, as much as I dislike ROR as a Journey CD, if ROR had been released after Escape it would have sold better than it did too. That was about timing and momentum. Journey was "right place, right time" then. Now it is the wrong time...

[jrnyman28]

The band calling themselves Journey had endless hits with Perry. They then disappeared from the music scene for 10 long years, and reappeared in 1996 with a single that debuted at #17 (and reached #3 on the Billboard charts, which is their second highest charting single, EVER, behind "Open Arms")on the Billboard charts, and an album that debuted at #3 on the Billboards charts! As for your point that the state of the music world not supporting Melodic Rock bands anymore...I'd suggest rewinding your internal clock to 1996, and tell me which Melodic Rock bands were on top of the world then, when everything was grunge!

This would be because they went Adult Contemporary with a ballad. Journey may be a melodic rock band but very little of TBF fits that bill anyway. Why didn't Message Of Love do better? Because that is the song that was competing with grunge. WYLAW was Journey Easy Listening.

Third, and this is similar to the first point. Yes, Journey have existed before Steve Perry was in the band, and they exist after. All these people keep saying that Journey never would have any hits or fans without Steve Perry having been in the band. There's no way any of you can be sure of that. .

The argument that Journey "could have" had a hit without Perry is flat out moronic! As you said, they existed for FIVE long years, before Perry was brought into the band, and there weren't 10 people who knew who they were! You could sit around and say any band "could have" had a hit with another lead singer. It doesn't change what the facts are! The difference with Journey is that they existed for a very long time without Perry, and did NOTHING that anyone paid any attention to, so the evidence is quite compelling.

The point is you actually do NOT know if Journey WOULD have had hits with Fleischman. Hell they may still have gotten rid of him and they might have brought in someone like Kevin Chalfant. Journey was already evolving to a more radio-friendly sound anyway.

Fleischman was the main writer of "Wheel In The Sky." And who says that Steve Perry would have ever had any hits without Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie? Street Talk and FTLOSM did very well, but they didn't sell like Escape and Frontiers. .

Who is to say that Perry would have had any hits without Neal and Gregg? As far as I can tell, Billboard Magazine says he did! He had three top 20 hits, without the name Journey attached to it, and that's three more than ANY other member of Journey had! The reality is that Perry had a single that reached #3 on the Billboard charts, and only one Journey track (Open Arms) got any higher than that!

But we all know that Steve Perry's success also rode heavily on his association with Journey.

[jrnyman28]

If Perry came back today, Journey could fill the same sized arenas as The Police, Van Halen and Genesis have commanded recently, and you know it.

Sorry, but no chance! I believe Journey would play larger venues but not the size or the capacity those bands did.

[ohsherrie]

Again, as so many times before over the years, I keep reading on here that 'Neal and Jon had the right to go on." I don't recall anyone(well any reasonable person) ever saying at anytime over all these years that they didn't have the right to do so.

They simply should have had more respect for the integrity of what Journey was with Perry to do so.

[Red13JoePa]

Again, as so many times before over the years, I keep reading on here that 'Neal and Jon had the right to go on." I don't recall anyone(well any reasonable person) ever saying at anytime over all these years that they didn't have the right to do so.

They simply should have had more respect for the integrity of what Journey was with Perry to do so.

Ah, the sanctimony of it all.

[jrnyman28]

Again, as so many times before over the years, I keep reading on here that 'Neal and Jon had the right to go on." I don't recall anyone(well any reasonable person) ever saying at anytime over all these years that they didn't have the right to do so.

They simply should have had more respect for the integrity of what Journey was with Perry to do so.

But the question at hand was concerning the band's and Perry's rights.
Rights are black and white...all the rest is subject to opinion.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

The sheds are 10,000-20,000 Story Sourceror.

The arenas Genesis and The Police play are 10-20,000.


Bitch slap that.


fuckin idiot.

Except there's between 1800 and 4000 people showing up, and Van Halen, The Police and Genesis are selling them out.

Not in the big markets they play. New York Jones Beach, Philly (Camden) Tweeter Center, LA Hollywood Bowl, Greek ALWAYS push the 20 k limit. They get the 4,000 crowds in the second-tier markets.
Well, I can agree with both yourself and Enigma that perry hitching his wagon back to Schon/Cain in Journey would get him back to being a draw instead iof having to play the 2500-3000 seaters he did last time out by himself.

The only time Journey (post Perry) has sold the venues you've mentioned is when they tour in partnership with another 80's generation band. A double ticket (or in the case of the upcoming tour, a triple ticket). They do not sell these seats on their own and they have no chance of doing so without Perry (and you know it).

Remember the Generations Tour? They played (and filled) most of the sheds - by themselves...

[Enigma869]

The one thing they haven't done - to their credit - is re-record the Lou Gramm era classics. There is simply no valid reason to do such a thing.

Well, that is not entirely true. They released a Live CD with "Extended Versions" of all of the Gramm era hits. I realize that it's live, but it was still released as a CD to the public, and it's not Gramm singing!

http://www.amazon.com/Extended-Versions ... 66&sr=1-13


John from Boston

[Voyager]

If Perry came back today, Journey could fill the same sized arenas as The Police, Van Halen and Genesis have commanded recently, and you know it.

Sorry, but no chance! I believe Journey would play larger venues but not the size or the capacity those bands did.

Only because there has been two versions of Journey out there touring over the past 10 years without their hit-making lead singer. Plus, The Police, Van Halen, and Genesis have singers in their lineups that were hit-makers.

[Voyager]

The one thing they haven't done - to their credit - is re-record the Lou Gramm era classics. There is simply no valid reason to do such a thing.

Well, that is not entirely true. They released a Live CD with "Extended Versions" of all of the Gramm era hits. I realize that it's live, but it was still released as a CD to the public, and it's not Gramm singing!

Journey did a live DVD with Augeri singing the Perry-era hits and nobody complained. But if they would have had him overdub his vocals on the Perry-era classics, I think there would have been an uproar among fans.

[jrnyman28]

Journey did a live DVD with Augeri singing the Perry-era hits and nobody complained. But if they would have had him overdub his vocals on the Perry-era classics, I think there would have been an uproar among fans.

You make it sound like all the band did was remover Perry's vocals and added Arnel's. I got the impression that the band went in and completely re-recorded them.

[Journey/Survivor]

Alright, here goes...

First of all Journey are still very relevant without Steve Perry. Attention everyone, Journey would NOT have hit songs on the radio now with Steve Perry. All of these jackass comments about Journey not having any hits since Perry left are pointless, because the state of the music world right now does not support AOR/Melodic Rock bands anymore.

And this makes them relevant, how? Listen, you can speculate 7 ways 'til Tuesday, about whether or not Journey would have a hit or not, with Perry at the helm! I can assure you that you'll NEVER find a single post by me here, or anywhere else, suggesting that Journey would be guaranteed to have a "hit" if Perry were still singing! All I do know is that with all speculation aside, the facts are what they are! The band calling themselves Journey had endless hits with Perry. They then disappeared from the music scene for 10 long years, and reappeared in 1996 with a single that debuted at #17 (and reached #3 on the Billboard charts, which is their second highest charting single, EVER, behind "Open Arms")on the Billboard charts, and an album that debuted at #3 on the Billboards charts! As for your point that the state of the music world not supporting Melodic Rock bands anymore...I'd suggest rewinding your internal clock to 1996, and tell me which Melodic Rock bands were on top of the world then, when everything was grunge!

I'll grant you all that they would sell even more tickets and CD's with Perry back in the band (that's assuming that Perry still sounds good) but they still do really damn good in ticket sales without Perry. I don't remember the numbers, but how many fucking millions of dollars has Journey made on tour alone since their first tour with Augeri in the band? To say that Journey aren't relevant without Perry is ridiculous.

I have said and will continue to say that they are irrelevant without Perry, in spite of how "ridiculous" you think it is. Selling out 5000 seat venues doesn't make them musically relevant, in my opinion. Also, let us not forget that it's the name "Journey" that is responsible for the ticket sales. The name "Journey" was built upon a sound, that was HEAVILY influenced by the soaring vocals of Steve Perry! If you seriously believe that most casual "Journey" fans, showing up at these shows has ANY idea of the revolving door at lead singer, you're very naive! As Jeff Scott Soto said on this very site, most fans he met after shows were "shocked" to learn that Perry wasn't in the band, and this was 10 years after the guy left the band! Most people are showing up for the songs, and couldn't tell you the name of one single guy on the stage. If you're not a hardcore fan, you simply have no idea who is who in a band!

Second, there's no way that Perry's making more money sitting at home than Journey are when their making new albums and touring their asses of. The biggest money does come from songwriting, so obviously Perry's making great money from royalties, but so are Schon, Cain, Rolie and others who have been involved in the songwriting. But Those other guys are making big bucks out on the road on top of royalties.

This, I actually agree with you on, but not because of your "making new albums" argument. I don't know what Journey's sales numbers are for any of their post-perry albums, but I would imagine that all of them combined resulted in embarrassing sales numbers, for a band with Journey's name! The fact that Perry co-wrote most of the Journey hits with Cain means that Cain would be entitled to the same royalties, but is earning the tour money that Perry is not earning. I would still say that nobody is holding any telethons for Perry, any time soon! He's making a pretty good living, without having to be some old dude, playing nostalgia tours!

Third, and this is similar to the first point. Yes, Journey have existed before Steve Perry was in the band, and they exist after. All these people keep saying that Journey never would have any hits or fans without Steve Perry having been in the band. There's no way any of you can be sure of that. .

The argument that Journey "could have" had a hit without Perry is flat out moronic! As you said, they existed for FIVE long years, before Perry was brought into the band, and there weren't 10 people who knew who they were! You could sit around and say any band "could have" had a hit with another lead singer. It doesn't change what the facts are! The difference with Journey is that they existed for a very long time without Perry, and did NOTHING that anyone paid any attention to, so the evidence is quite compelling.

Fleischman was the main writer of "Wheel In The Sky." And who says that Steve Perry would have ever had any hits without Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie? Street Talk and FTLOSM did very well, but they didn't sell like Escape and Frontiers. .

Who is to say that Perry would have had any hits without Neal and Gregg? As far as I can tell, Billboard Magazine says he did! He had three top 20 hits, without the name Journey attached to it, and that's three more than ANY other member of Journey had! The reality is that Perry had a single that reached #3 on the Billboard charts, and only one Journey track (Open Arms) got any higher than that! As for your argument about Robert Fleischman...I've listened to the guy sing, so please don't tell me that Journey was primed for this big success if only Fleischman was "given a chance"! You do realize the guy was replaced because the band was going nowhere fast, with the guy, right? The fact that Fleischman wrote "Wheel in the Sky" simply means he could write a song. Jonathan Cain wrote "Faithfully" all by himself, with no help from anyone else in Journey. I'd suggest you listen to his version of "Faithfully" and then tell me it would have had the same success that Perry's version had! Cain sounded like he was torturing farm animals, trying to sing that song! My point is that you can have the greatest lyrics in the world, but if you don't have someone with the pipes to pull it off, the song will never see the light of day!

And even though Arrival, Red 13 and Generations haven't sold a ton of copies doesn't mean that their not great albums, which they are! Too many people seem to think that sales are what defines greatness. .

We'll agree to disagree that "Red 13", "Arrival" and "Generations" are "great" albums! I certainly don't think any of them were "great" and actually thought two out of the three SUCKED! Just because you think something is "great" doesn't mean that everyone else shares your opinion!

And I've got news for you...Journey are going to do very well with Arnel in the band.

I guess it just comes down to what your definition of "very well" is. I personally like Arnel's voice a lot. The guy can flat out sing, and I think that anyone who thinks he can't isn't listening to the same guy I'm listening to. Having said that, I suspect Journey's future isn't going to be that much different than the past 10 years have been for them. They had their time, and 2008 isn't their time!


John from Boston

First of all, John, and I know I didn't make this clear, but not all of what I said in my post was directed at you alone, some of it was in response to what some other people have also said on here.

Here's why Journey are still extremely relevant...They continue to sell very large amounts of tickets to their shows. On their Generations tour they either sold out or damn near sold out the Blossom Music Center here in the Greater-Cleveland area, that's a 20,000 capacity venue, and it was with no other bands as part of the show, and with very high ticket prices. Plus all of the other shows with Augeri and JSS that have sold out or nearly sold out here in Ohio. Irrelevant bands do not sell that kind of tickets to their shows at those kinds of prices. Also, when you have Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain in your band, you are never irrelevant, especially with Schon, the guy's a legend in the music world.

The Steve Perry solo-hits that your referring to were well after he had already been in Journey, I was saying that had Perry never been in a band with Schon and Rolie that he may never have become well-known and had hit songs in the first place. I feel quite certain that if Steve Perry had released a solo album in 1978 without having been associated with Schon and Rolie that it would have sold similar to the solo album that Robert Fleischman released that year. In other words not very well. Now, yes, without question I'm a much bigger fan of Steve Perry's singing than I am of Fleischman's. But the only reason they replaced Fleischman with Perry is because Perry is an even better singer, it wasn't that they felt that they weren't going to go anywhere with Fleischman. I'm fairly certain that Journey did do much better in terms of hits with Perry than they would have with Fleischman, but the point is that no-one can say for certain that they wouldn't have ever had hits without Perry. Perry made Journey better in many ways, but Journey made Perry better in many ways too.

As far as your comment about no-one knowing who Journey were before Perry, that's not true at all. Yes, Perry helped them become way more well-known and popular, but they had a very loyal following before Perry was in the band. I've read on many occasions about how Journey lost a lot of their existing fans when Perry joined because they didn't like the change in style of the band. Yes, I'm sure they gained way more fans because of Perry than they lost because of him, but they were gaining more and more fans with each album even before Perry joined. I'm just using these next two people as examples, I'm not saying that they alone prove anything, but...I personally know two people who went to see Journey on their "Look Into The Future" tour, my longtime guitar teacher/friend and Survivor's drummer Marc Droubay. And my guitar teacher/friend lost interest in Journey after Perry joined, he loved Schon and the other musicians, but he couldn't stand Perry's singing or the change in musical style.

And like you said, we'll have to agree to disagree on how great the post-Perry Journey albums have been. I and a lot of other people consider them to be great albums. But then again IMO a great band needs more than just a great singer, and Journey have great musicians in Schon, Cain, Valory and Castronovo. And even if Augeri and now Arnel are not as great of singers as Perry, their still damn good singers.

[ohsherrie]

Again, as so many times before over the years, I keep reading on here that 'Neal and Jon had the right to go on." I don't recall anyone(well any reasonable person) ever saying at anytime over all these years that they didn't have the right to do so.

They simply should have had more respect for the integrity of what Journey was with Perry to do so.

But the question at hand was concerning the band's and Perry's rights.
Rights are black and white...all the rest is subject to opinion.

Thank you for answering logically. But then you always have.

[Enigma869]

Again, as so many times before over the years, I keep reading on here that 'Neal and Jon had the right to go on." I don't recall anyone(well any reasonable person) ever saying at anytime over all these years that they didn't have the right to do so.

They simply should have had more respect for the integrity of what Journey was with Perry to do so.

But the question at hand was concerning the band's and Perry's rights.
Rights are black and white...all the rest is subject to opinion.

Thank you for answering logically. But then you always have.

Dave is the most level-headed dude on ANY message board, and one of the few who NEVER has an agenda! I respect the hell out of that guy!


John from Boston

[ohsherrie]

Again, as so many times before over the years, I keep reading on here that 'Neal and Jon had the right to go on." I don't recall anyone(well any reasonable person) ever saying at anytime over all these years that they didn't have the right to do so.

They simply should have had more respect for the integrity of what Journey was with Perry to do so.

But the question at hand was concerning the band's and Perry's rights.
Rights are black and white...all the rest is subject to opinion.

Thank you for answering logically. But then you always have.

Dave is the most level-headed dude on ANY message board, and one of the few who NEVER has an agenda! I respect the hell out of that guy!


John from Boston

Me too John. He's earned my respect the hard way. He and I have been through some bloody battles over the years on opposite sides. He's always fought with dignity and logic.

[jrnyman28]

What's a little blood among friends?

Thanks guys!

[Journey/Survivor]

The sheds are 10,000-20,000 Story Sourceror.

The arenas Genesis and The Police play are 10-20,000.


Bitch slap that.


fuckin idiot.

Except there's between 1800 and 4000 people showing up, and Van Halen, The Police and Genesis are selling them out.

Not in the big markets they play. New York Jones Beach, Philly (Camden) Tweeter Center, LA Hollywood Bowl, Greek ALWAYS push the 20 k limit. They get the 4,000 crowds in the second-tier markets.
Well, I can agree with both yourself and Enigma that perry hitching his wagon back to Schon/Cain in Journey would get him back to being a draw instead iof having to play the 2500-3000 seaters he did last time out by himself.

Wow, you're really going for a fourth slap, huh?

Oh I see, now you're going to omit facts to support your bizarre perspective. Okay, here comes some more facts to slap you again:

The only time Journey (post Perry) has sold the venues you've mentioned is when they tour in partnership with another 80's generation band. A double ticket (or in the case of the upcoming tour, a triple ticket). They do not sell these seats on their own and they have no chance of doing so without Perry (and you know it).

Perry comes back (never happen, I agree), but they do and they get the likes of Daughtry opening for them.

I do agree that Perry solo would not sell out arenas, of course, but I also guarantee you he wouldn't need a double ticket to sell out his own tour.

So, you want to go for a 5th slap or have you had enough? Please keep it coming, it's so much fun watching you twist in the wind.

I hadn't read this until now or else I would have responded earlier. I have mentioned this in another post however. On their Generations tour, Journey sold out the Blossom Music Center near Cleveland. The Blossom Music Center has a capacity just barely under 20,000, I think it's only 500 short of a 20,000 capacity. That show was Journey with no other bands, plus they were charging their usual sky-high ticket prices. I think my ticket cost 90 bucks.

Maybe Journey are just way more popular in the northern Ohio area than they are in other parts of the country? But here in Ohio they get huge crowds with or without another band with them.