TOSHIBA JUST DROPPED HD DVD!

[Enigma869]

I for one am not about to buy a lower end TV. I'm waiting for laser projection. Inside source says they're going to hit the market in 27 inch formats first though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS6wsJRGqnQ

That definitely looks interesting and sounds like great technology. I'm just not one of these guys who believes in sitting around, waiting for the next great thing. As I tell people...if you wait around for the newest technology, you'll never buy anything! There is ALWAYS going to be something bigger and better than what you last bought. I generally don't keep any TV longer than 5 years, so I just buy whatever is available at the time I'm shopping. I have waited for a current year's particular model to be released, but not sure I'd have the patience to wait, beyond that.


John from Boston

[Vladan]

I think that went over John's head..

Dude...you're a fucking idiot! To be quite frank with you, I could give a rat's ass how much you know about audio and video. Go visit www.avsforum.com . Maybe they'll bring you on as a moderator! You come across like a complete ass. I can assure you that you can keep bringing the attacks my way, and I'll keep coming out with guns blazing! If you plan on winning a battle of words, or wits with me, you better come a bit better armed than dragging your dick behind you, and talking about your home theater system!


John from Boston

Wow I may as well make this comment. Journey69, why do you have a your avatar as "red 13". You don't think those songs are actually good do you? mate, I gotta tell you having that as an avatar and attempting to hold any valid points, is always going to be a long shot and an up hill battle, as I thought oh yeah this is an interesting conversation until I saw that avatar, boooo.

You enjoyed Generations as well, so need I say more... Smile go listen to some REAL Journey!

PS,

Nobody cares about HD DVD here in Australia, it's bombing really badly.

[STORY_TELLER]

I'm just not one of these guys who believes in sitting around, waiting for the next great thing. As I tell people...if you wait around for the newest technology, you'll never buy anything! There is ALWAYS going to be something bigger and better than what you last bought.

Very true, and I agree, most of the time. But when I buy a TV I want one that's going to last me a long time across multiple advancements elsewhere in the entertainment technologies. The laser TV increases the image quality to such an extent that it's worth the wait. By that time, Blu-Ray players will probably be more reasonably priced too.

In the mean time, I can purchase blu-ray disks and build my library of special interest movies (i.e. recent multiple disk collections of BladeRunner, Close Encounters, etc.)

[Monker]

Interesting.

First of all, I think it's foolish to buy the latest tech and pay inflated prices. Wait a year and things drop, sometimes dramatically. Like someone said, blu-ray started at around $1000. Those waited paid less then half of that.

HD has been around alot longer then 10yrs. The first I heard of it was when Aerosmith broadcast an HD concert - in Japan - in the late 80's.

As for Tv's...if you really want BIG, then you are foolish to not have a projector. For what you pay for a 50 inch lcd/plasma, I have a 100 inch screen and projector. I'll never be without one for movies and games.

As for 'laser TV'...I just bought a 46 inch Samsung lcd...a friend just buoght a 42 inch plasma.us We were comparing notes and I joked that in 10yrs we'll be buying TV wallpaper...just glue it to the wall and have everything sent to it wirelessly. There is always something better to wait for.

VIZIO - I look at them as a sorta generic brand. I believe they do not manufacture their own components as the major brands do. So, you end up with cheaper components inside. A lot of people are happy with Visio, but I have more confidence in Sony, Samsung, Sharp, etc.

[Journey69]

I've heard that pioneer is at the top and i've seen the samsung and agree it's better, sony is as well but it is a huge difference in price

I own 4 Pioneer plasmas, and I honestly don't think you'll find a better picture. I am partial to plasma over LCD, for critical viewing. LCD's will do better in a room where you can't control the ambient light, as plasmas reflect ambient light much more. Although I have many LCD's throughout my home, plasma simply offers a far better picture, in my opinion, for serious movie and sports watching!

As for some who tout Samsung as "high end", some of us older people still remember Samsung as VERY crappy electronics from the 1980's! I wouldn't take a Samsung over a Pioneer PDP if you gave the Samsung to me for free! At the end of the day, you have to judge for yourself and what your eyes tell you. The best advice I can give you is to not judge ANYTHING, based upon what you see on the display floors at the Circuit Cities and Best Buys of the world. Those sets are NEVER calibrated correctly and come from the factory in "torch mode" (meaning all the brightness settings are turned all the way up to their maximum brightness and look like crap).

If you're considering plasma, give Panasonic a serious look. While I don't think Panasonic is quite up to Pioneer's standards and performance, they're not far behind, and MUCH more aggressively priced! I've never heard anyone badmouth a Panasonic plasma, and as I said, Pioneer simply won't compete with Panasonic in the price arena.


John from Boston

There is a lot of truth to what you say..Pioneer is the best..Panasonic is right behind..And Samsung used to be crap,Not anymore..Their tv's are awesome now..The new ones with 120 hz are incredible..Go look at some Samsung's,compare them,I will guarantee you ,they are right up there in quality now..Also,Blu ray will not go up..They will keep coming down..They want people to buy them.The movies are not $30..You can get them on Amazon for about $20-25,still spendy tho..

[Journey69]

Interesting.

First of all, I think it's foolish to buy the latest tech and pay inflated prices. Wait a year and things drop, sometimes dramatically. Like someone said, blu-ray started at around $1000. Those waited paid less then half of that.

HD has been around alot longer then 10yrs. The first I heard of it was when Aerosmith broadcast an HD concert - in Japan - in the late 80's.

As for Tv's...if you really want BIG, then you are foolish to not have a projector. For what you pay for a 50 inch lcd/plasma, I have a 100 inch screen and projector. I'll never be without one for movies and games.

As for 'laser TV'...I just bought a 46 inch Samsung lcd...a friend just buoght a 42 inch plasma.us We were comparing notes and I joked that in 10yrs we'll be buying TV wallpaper...just glue it to the wall and have everything sent to it wirelessly. There is always something better to wait for.

VIZIO - I look at them as a sorta generic brand. I believe they do not manufacture their own components as the major brands do. So, you end up with cheaper components inside. A lot of people are happy with Visio, but I have more confidence in Sony, Samsung, Sharp, etc.

You are out of your gord! My friend has a theater company..I go over to his house and watch movies..He has a theater in his basement,122" screen,7.1 surround sound..I told him his big screen did not look as good as my 56" Samsung,and he got mad at me..I said whatever,come over and watch a blu ray movie at my house.He came over and crapped himself..I told him..when you have a screen that big,you need about twice the pixels to fill it..Think about it..I have a 56" samsung that is 1080p.That's 1920x1080.Now you take the same resolution and put that on a 122" screen..Its going to be washed out and not as clear..Also,games look like shit on a screen that big..I don't care what anyone says,you need a resolution of like 5000x2500 for it to look the way it should..Bigger is not always better.. Go to a movie theater and then watch that same movie on blu ray on a smaller screen..Its not even close.The smaller screen looks 10x better..!

[STORY_TELLER]

Interesting.

First of all, I think it's foolish to buy the latest tech and pay inflated prices. Wait a year and things drop, sometimes dramatically. Like someone said, blu-ray started at around $1000. Those waited paid less then half of that.

HD has been around alot longer then 10yrs. The first I heard of it was when Aerosmith broadcast an HD concert - in Japan - in the late 80's.

As for Tv's...if you really want BIG, then you are foolish to not have a projector. For what you pay for a 50 inch lcd/plasma, I have a 100 inch screen and projector. I'll never be without one for movies and games.

As for 'laser TV'...I just bought a 46 inch Samsung lcd...a friend just buoght a 42 inch plasma.us We were comparing notes and I joked that in 10yrs we'll be buying TV wallpaper...just glue it to the wall and have everything sent to it wirelessly. There is always something better to wait for.

VIZIO - I look at them as a sorta generic brand. I believe they do not manufacture their own components as the major brands do. So, you end up with cheaper components inside. A lot of people are happy with Visio, but I have more confidence in Sony, Samsung, Sharp, etc.

Drawing a comparison between LCD's and Plasmas to Laser TV's is like drawing a comparison between black and white TV's and color. It's nearly that drastic a contrast. The colors are 70 percent more vivid, brighter and sharper than any other kind of television on the market. I know the you tube link I gave can't show it, but I've seen the prototypes in person and it's something that has to be seen in person to be understood. Blows the hell out of any consumer grade HD quality projector too, because it's not just the size of the image, it's the quality.

Also, I'm scratching my head at the Aerosmith HD concert in the 80's thing. You're saying they broadcast it in HD back then? Who could watch it? To my knowledge, there weren't any HD capable televisions on the market let alone in homes back then, even in Japan. Unless we're talking about HD projectors in select locations?

[STORY_TELLER]

I've heard that pioneer is at the top and i've seen the samsung and agree it's better, sony is as well but it is a huge difference in price

I own 4 Pioneer plasmas, and I honestly don't think you'll find a better picture. I am partial to plasma over LCD, for critical viewing. LCD's will do better in a room where you can't control the ambient light, as plasmas reflect ambient light much more. Although I have many LCD's throughout my home, plasma simply offers a far better picture, in my opinion, for serious movie and sports watching!

As for some who tout Samsung as "high end", some of us older people still remember Samsung as VERY crappy electronics from the 1980's! I wouldn't take a Samsung over a Pioneer PDP if you gave the Samsung to me for free! At the end of the day, you have to judge for yourself and what your eyes tell you. The best advice I can give you is to not judge ANYTHING, based upon what you see on the display floors at the Circuit Cities and Best Buys of the world. Those sets are NEVER calibrated correctly and come from the factory in "torch mode" (meaning all the brightness settings are turned all the way up to their maximum brightness and look like crap).

If you're considering plasma, give Panasonic a serious look. While I don't think Panasonic is quite up to Pioneer's standards and performance, they're not far behind, and MUCH more aggressively priced! I've never heard anyone badmouth a Panasonic plasma, and as I said, Pioneer simply won't compete with Panasonic in the price arena.


John from Boston

There is a lot of truth to what you say..Pioneer is the best..Panasonic is right behind..And Samsung used to be crap,Not anymore..Their tv's are awesome now..The new ones with 120 hz are incredible..Go look at some Samsung's,compare them,I will guarantee you ,they are right up there in quality now..Also,Blu ray will not go up..They will keep coming down..They want people to buy them.The movies are not $30..You can get them on Amazon for about $20-25,still spendy tho..

The Sony Bravia's trump them all. On LCD's, the real issue is the quality of the blacks. Most LCD's black colors appear gray. Bravia's blacks are photo quality rich. Makes all the difference in the image quality. Best way to tell is to look at the letter boxed areas on some movies.

Even still, I'm waiting for the laser's.

[Enigma869]

The Sony Bravia's trump them all. On LCD's, the real issue is the quality of the blacks. Most LCD's black colors appear gray.

You're 100% correct that the black level on LCD's are one of the major issues, as well as the artifact blurring (for sports viewing). While both have improved on LCD, plasma is simply a better technology in both areas. As I said, I own several of both types of tv's throughout my home, and I can honestly tell you that the picture quality simply isn't close!

As for your point about Sony...If you're saying Sony Bravia's "trump" high end plasma displays like Fujitsu and Pioneer, I couldn't disagree with you more! There isn't a single LCD on the market manufactured by ANYONE that offers a superior picture to a high end plasma. That may change in a couple of years, with the advent of laser and the advances in LCD technology, but it's not there yet!


John from Boston

[STORY_TELLER]

The Sony Bravia's trump them all. On LCD's, the real issue is the quality of the blacks. Most LCD's black colors appear gray.

You're 100% correct that the black level on LCD's are one of the major issues, as well as the artifact blurring (for sports viewing). While both have improved on LCD, plasma is simply a better technology in both areas. As I said, I own several of both types of tv's throughout my home, and I can honestly tell you that the picture quality simply isn't close!

As for your point about Sony...If you're saying Sony Bravia's "trump" high end plasma displays like Fujitsu and Pioneer, I couldn't disagree with you more! There isn't a single LCD on the market manufactured by ANYONE that offers a superior picture to a high end plasma. That may change in a couple of years, with the advent of laser and the advances in LCD technology, but it's not there yet!


John from Boston

No, I was referring to LCD's. Hence why I said "On LCD's". LCD's are superior in one area alone: They last longer.

The drawback with Plasma's is the screens don't last. Image burns are common. My brother in law had to dump his Sony plasma after 3 years. 4:3 images place vertical letterbox bars on the right and left side of the image and after a while, those bars burn into the screen, leaving you with discolored ghost bars floating over all your 16:9 imagery.

Not worth it in the long run.

[Enigma869]

First of all, I think it's foolish to buy the latest tech and pay inflated prices. Wait a year and things drop, sometimes dramatically.

I agree, for the most part. I purchased a GPS when they first became available, because I simply HAD to have one, and I suspected they would be around for the long haul and become mainstream (which they have). With Blu Ray and HD DVD, NOBODY knew if either was going to be around, so it made spending the money up front seem silly to me!

HD has been around alot longer then 10yrs.

I can tell you for a fact that HD TV's have absolutely NOT been around for more than 10 years in this country! In fact, it's been exactly 10 years. The first HD TV went on sale in the United States, to the public in 1998. Early analog HD TV's were available in Japan around 1992, so perhaps that's where you heard about the Aerosmith concert.

As for Tv's...if you really want BIG, then you are foolish to not have a projector. For what you pay for a 50 inch lcd/plasma, I have a 100 inch screen and projector.

There are definitely those who SWEAR by projectors and think the biggest screen you can buy is the best. I've never subscribed to that theory. I use a 60 inch Pioneer plasma in my home theater and it's PLENTY big for any movie watching we do. As for the pricing difference...the reality is that there are MANY higher end projectors that are well over $10,000. I realize you can also purchase projectors for under $1,000.00, but those cheaper projectors are NEVER going to compete with the picture quality on a high end display, no matter how big the screen is!

There is always something better to wait for.

I agree 100%, which is why I NEVER wait for the next greatest technology. As I said before, you'll be waiting forever, if you're always waiting for the next best thing. I realize people try to "future-proof" their sets, but that simpy isn't going to happen. Today's TV and electronics technology change at warp speed, so no matter what you buy...five years from now, you're going to want something else. This isn't like our parents buying a console tv, and having it for 20 years, and then 20 years later, buying the same exact console to replace it, because nothing has changed.


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

LCD's are superior in one area alone: They last longer.

No argument from me there. They absolutely last longer, and are more "indestructable" than plasma. That said, I think the huge difference in picture quality, and the fact that I've never kept a tv for more than 5 years in my life makes me not really worry about it. I've read that today's generation of plasmas are rated for 12 years (and that's if you were watching tv 20 hours a day). I don't think most people keep tv's quite that long, any longer, so I don't think it's an issue for many.

The drawback with Plasma's is the screens don't last. Image burns are common. My brother in law had to dump his Sony plasma after 3 years. 4:3 images place vertical letterbox bars on the right and left side of the image and after a while, those bars burn into the screen, leaving you with discolored ghost bars floating over all your 16:9 imagery.

A couple of points...Image burns are WAY overblown for today's generation of plasma, if you understand what a plasma display is. You absolutely, positively CANNOT leave a static image on a plasma display for a prolonged period of time, because you will more than likely "burn" an image in. Having said that, I've had several plasmas for many years, and NEVER had a single issue on one set, because I don't leave static images on my screen! As for Sony and their plasmas...They never made great plasmas to begin with, so I can't say that I'm surprised. I can tell you that I also don't watch 4:3 images on ANY of my displays (LCD or plasma), because the lines on the side drive me NUTS! I don't think most plasma manufacturers even recommend you watch 4:3 images on a plasma display, because those bars become a static image. That's what "stretch" mode is for! Today's stretch mode is so good, that you don't even see any picture distortion when stretching the image.

The bottom line for me is this. If you're after picture quality, plasma BLOWS AWAY LCD! As I said, it's simply not close, to my eyes! Having said that, if I played video games all night, every night, I would not do this on a plasma, even though many LCD's are probably going to have difficulty keeping up with the action of video games! I would stick with LCD for gaming and in rooms that are flooded with light. Plasma doesn't do nearly as well in either situation.


John from Boston

[Journey69]

I think that went over John's head..

Dude...you're a fucking idiot! To be quite frank with you, I could give a rat's ass how much you know about audio and video. Go visit www.avsforum.com . Maybe they'll bring you on as a moderator! You come across like a complete ass. I can assure you that you can keep bringing the attacks my way, and I'll keep coming out with guns blazing! If you plan on winning a battle of words, or wits with me, you better come a bit better armed than dragging your dick behind you, and talking about your home theater system!


John from Boston

Wow I may as well make this comment. Journey69, why do you have a your avatar as "red 13". You don't think those songs are actually good do you? mate, I gotta tell you having that as an avatar and attempting to hold any valid points, is always going to be a long shot and an up hill battle, as I thought oh yeah this is an interesting conversation until I saw that avatar, boooo.

You enjoyed Generations as well, so need I say more... Smile go listen to some REAL Journey!

PS,

Nobody cares about HD DVD here in Australia, it's bombing really badly.

I like most anything Journey.. I like the avatar a lot.. I also like Red13/State of Grace and the Time.. If other people don't ,screw'em..I'm not the type of Journey fan that says no Perry no Journey..Arrival was one of my favorite albums.. Besides,I don't see SP doing anything ... To each his own mate!

[Journey69]

I've heard that pioneer is at the top and i've seen the samsung and agree it's better, sony is as well but it is a huge difference in price

I own 4 Pioneer plasmas, and I honestly don't think you'll find a better picture. I am partial to plasma over LCD, for critical viewing. LCD's will do better in a room where you can't control the ambient light, as plasmas reflect ambient light much more. Although I have many LCD's throughout my home, plasma simply offers a far better picture, in my opinion, for serious movie and sports watching!

As for some who tout Samsung as "high end", some of us older people still remember Samsung as VERY crappy electronics from the 1980's! I wouldn't take a Samsung over a Pioneer PDP if you gave the Samsung to me for free! At the end of the day, you have to judge for yourself and what your eyes tell you. The best advice I can give you is to not judge ANYTHING, based upon what you see on the display floors at the Circuit Cities and Best Buys of the world. Those sets are NEVER calibrated correctly and come from the factory in "torch mode" (meaning all the brightness settings are turned all the way up to their maximum brightness and look like crap).

If you're considering plasma, give Panasonic a serious look. While I don't think Panasonic is quite up to Pioneer's standards and performance, they're not far behind, and MUCH more aggressively priced! I've never heard anyone badmouth a Panasonic plasma, and as I said, Pioneer simply won't compete with Panasonic in the price arena.


John from Boston

There is a lot of truth to what you say..Pioneer is the best..Panasonic is right behind..And Samsung used to be crap,Not anymore..Their tv's are awesome now..The new ones with 120 hz are incredible..Go look at some Samsung's,compare them,I will guarantee you ,they are right up there in quality now..Also,Blu ray will not go up..They will keep coming down..They want people to buy them.The movies are not $30..You can get them on Amazon for about $20-25,still spendy tho..

The Sony Bravia's trump them all. On LCD's, the real issue is the quality of the blacks. Most LCD's black colors appear gray. Bravia's blacks are photo quality rich. Makes all the difference in the image quality. Best way to tell is to look at the letter boxed areas on some movies.

Even still, I'm waiting for the laser's.

Guy your living like 3 years in the past..The problem with blacks in lcd's is pretty much gone..Have you even looked latetly? The contrast ratio on most are like 10,000:1 Most of the problems with lcd and plasma are gone! You talk about not wanting to pay early adopter prices..You really think when lazer tech comes out on tv's that your going to buy it? Not for a couple years,its going to be like $,8-$10 grand trust me.. Your going to be waiting at least 5 yrs until is affordable..Hell its not even out yet.I know all about the lazer tv's..They are the next big thing..but its going to be a while..Why not spend $1500-$1800 to get a nice 56" - 65" tv til the lazer ones come out and are affrodable and then sell it and buy one.. What's the difference..? People baffle me!

[Enigma869]

The problem with blacks in lcd's is pretty much gone..Have you even looked latetly?

It's definitely true that plasma "burn in" and the black levels in LCD's have improved, exponentially. Every generation of TV gets better. Someone going out and replacing an old tube set today (and I don't care if it was the best tube set they made at the time you purchased it) is going to get a FAR superior TV, even if you buy a crappy brand!

The contrast ratio on most are like 10,000:1

I wouldn't put too much stock in what companies advertise as their contrast ratios. There have been enough studies in the market place to show that most of the sets that are boasting 10,000:1 contrast ratio aren't even half of that. It's nothing more than "Sales Fluff", and it's not like the manufacturer is accountable to anyone to prove what they're saying is true! At the end of the day, you have to give it the "eyeball test" to ensure that blacks don't look gray. That's the ultimate test of "contrast ratio"!

You really think when lazer tech comes out on tv's that your going to buy it? Not for a couple years,its going to be like $,8-$10 grand trust me.. Your going to be waiting at least 5 yrs until is affordable.

While I don't think laser TV's will be in the $10K price range, I agree that they'll be expensive when they first hit the market, like everything else is! There is a lot of great stuff on the market to be enjoyed, without having to wait, but if you truly believe you have to have it...it's your money! Incidentally...Journey69...what's with you telling someone not to become an early adopter??? What a contradiction you are, "Gadget Man"!


John from Boston

[Journey69]

Early adopter is fine..I was saying I don't think story teller is the kind of guy that's going to part with $8000 let alone $4000..Also,the 1st ones aren't going to be big..Probably like 32" or something.. And I know about the bs contrast ratio's.. Some say 15,000 and its a gimmick.. Some that state 1500 are better than the ones that are 15,000.But my dad's Samsung LCD looks great,and blacks look black..

[STORY_TELLER]

Guy your living like 3 years in the past..The problem with blacks in lcd's is pretty much gone..Have you even looked latetly? The contrast ratio on most are like 10,000:1 Most of the problems with lcd and plasma are gone! You talk about not wanting to pay early adopter prices..You really think when lazer tech comes out on tv's that your going to buy it? Not for a couple years,its going to be like $,8-$10 grand trust me.. Your going to be waiting at least 5 yrs until is affordable..Hell its not even out yet.I know all about the lazer tv's..They are the next big thing..but its going to be a while..Why not spend $1500-$1800 to get a nice 56" - 65" tv til the lazer ones come out and are affrodable and then sell it and buy one.. What's the difference..? People baffle me!

I'm living 3 years in the past? LMAO... that's why I knew about the laser TV's, huh? Of course I've looked around. Why do you think I'm waiting for Laser? lol...

And no, the problem with blacks in LCD's is no place NEAR gone dude. You have to pay close to 2g's for the LCD models with dark blacks. Bravia's run in that price range and that is the best black range out on the market right now.

Better quality = more money. Always. Even after prices drop.

About lasers, wrong there again. They're right around the corner and It will be about 6-9 months before prices drop after they're released. When they do drop, they will be in the same price range as the Bravia's. The reason for this is because they cost the same amount to make as LCD's. I have an inside source on this, I've seen them in person. The technology difference is worth the wait on the Lasers because the quality in image is that drastic. It's not the negligible difference between Plasma and LCD. It's an extremely different viewing experience. Trust me, you'll be amazed. It's really worth the wait.

Take that into account along with the fact that the units themselves will last forever and it's a no brainer. You will have the same quality image from day one until 50 years from now. Same can't be said for any other television technology. When Lasers hit the market, LCD's and Plasma's will be discontinued (except for computer displays). So why would I spend the money now when a more permanent technology with such a drastic increase in quality is right around the corner? And no, I won't have to pay $4000 for the TV. The price drops are planned to be sooner to compete and in fact, shut out, LCD's.

I could see buying now if it was only a mini-bump in technology advancement, but it's not a mini-bump. It's an extreme difference.

[Enigma869]

And no, the problem with blacks in LCD's is no place NEAR gone dude. You have to pay close to 2g's for the LCD models with dark blacks. Bravia's run in that price range and that is the best black range out on the market right now.

I definitely agree that only the upper echelon LCD's have addressed the washed out black issues. Lower tier LCD's still look like crap and probably always will!

Better quality = more money. Always. Even after prices drop.

With the exception of Panasonic in the plasma field, I agree with you, wholeheartedly! There is a reason a Pioneer plasma costs 3 times the price of a Vizio...It's looks at least 3 times better!

You will have the same quality image from day one until 50 years from now. .

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.


John from Boston

[STORY_TELLER]

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd make this statement if you understood that my point was about video degradation.

I can only speak to what my personal choices will be. I look for serious increases in technological advancements before I purchase. LCD's and Plasma's aren't advanced enough for my tastes.

I still own and use a Sony Wega 27 inch TV which I purchased back in 1999. Gives me a super clear sharp image when I view SD DVD's. Even after I get a Laser TV, I'll still keep the Wega and use it in my studio. I'm pretty sure the Laser will eventually take over the Wega's position in my studio and will be with me for at least 20 years, as I have no plans to upgrade every television I own to the latest model as soon as they come out. I think that's probably true of most people.

That being said, I think it makes sense for people like me to make a TV purchase which will be without the possibility of dead pixels or image burns, don't you?

[Journey69]

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd make this statement if you understood that my point was about video degradation.

I can only speak to what my personal choices will be. I look for serious increases in technological advancements before I purchase. LCD's and Plasma's aren't advanced enough for my tastes.

I still own and use a Sony Wega 27 inch TV which I purchased back in 1999. Gives me a super clear sharp image when I view SD DVD's. Even after I get a Laser TV, I'll still keep the Wega and use it in my studio. I'm pretty sure the Laser will eventually take over the Wega's position in my studio and will be with me for at least 20 years, as I have no plans to upgrade every television I own to the latest model as soon as they come out. I think that's probably true of most people.

That being said, I think it makes sense for people like me to make a TV purchase which will be without the possibility of dead pixels or image burns, don't you?

Mitsubishi pioneered the laser tech.. I can see your one of those guys who watching tv is a big deal.. I don't keep tv's that long..If they come out with Laser tv's in the next few years,I will sell mine and buy one of those..Your dreaming if you think laser tv's are going to be under $4000 when they came out.. LED's last forever too.. I'm not worried about changing a bulb in my DLP. Big deal..

[Behshad]

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd make this statement if you understood that my point was about video degradation.

I can only speak to what my personal choices will be. I look for serious increases in technological advancements before I purchase. LCD's and Plasma's aren't advanced enough for my tastes.

I still own and use a Sony Wega 27 inch TV which I purchased back in 1999. Gives me a super clear sharp image when I view SD DVD's. Even after I get a Laser TV, I'll still keep the Wega and use it in my studio. I'm pretty sure the Laser will eventually take over the Wega's position in my studio and will be with me for at least 20 years, as I have no plans to upgrade every television I own to the latest model as soon as they come out. I think that's probably true of most people.

That being said, I think it makes sense for people like me to make a TV purchase which will be without the possibility of dead pixels or image burns, don't you?

Mitsubishi pioneered the laser tech.. I can see your one of those guys who watching tv is a big deal.. I don't keep tv's that long..If they come out with Laser tv's in the next few years,I will sell mine and buy one of those..Your dreaming if you think laser tv's are going to be under $4000 when they came out.. LED's last forever too.. I'm not worried about changing a bulb in my DLP. Big deal..

Laser TV is supposed to be under $2000 when it comes out. Thats one of the main reasons they think it will be a big hit.


Monker,,,, you're so stupid..... HD has been around since late 80's eh??? you crack me up dude!!!

[Journey69]

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd make this statement if you understood that my point was about video degradation.

I can only speak to what my personal choices will be. I look for serious increases in technological advancements before I purchase. LCD's and Plasma's aren't advanced enough for my tastes.

I still own and use a Sony Wega 27 inch TV which I purchased back in 1999. Gives me a super clear sharp image when I view SD DVD's. Even after I get a Laser TV, I'll still keep the Wega and use it in my studio. I'm pretty sure the Laser will eventually take over the Wega's position in my studio and will be with me for at least 20 years, as I have no plans to upgrade every television I own to the latest model as soon as they come out. I think that's probably true of most people.

That being said, I think it makes sense for people like me to make a TV purchase which will be without the possibility of dead pixels or image burns, don't you?

Mitsubishi pioneered the laser tech.. I can see your one of those guys who watching tv is a big deal.. I don't keep tv's that long..If they come out with Laser tv's in the next few years,I will sell mine and buy one of those..Your dreaming if you think laser tv's are going to be under $4000 when they came out.. LED's last forever too.. I'm not worried about changing a bulb in my DLP. Big deal..

Laser TV is supposed to be under $2000 when it comes out. Thats one of the main reasons they think it will be a big hit.


Monker,,,, you're so stupid..... HD has been around since late 80's eh??? you crack me up dude!!!

I will put a personal bet on the line that no 40" or higher laser tv will be $2000 No way in hell.. They will start around $4000 and drop fast in about 6-8 months..

[STORY_TELLER]

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd make this statement if you understood that my point was about video degradation.

I can only speak to what my personal choices will be. I look for serious increases in technological advancements before I purchase. LCD's and Plasma's aren't advanced enough for my tastes.

I still own and use a Sony Wega 27 inch TV which I purchased back in 1999. Gives me a super clear sharp image when I view SD DVD's. Even after I get a Laser TV, I'll still keep the Wega and use it in my studio. I'm pretty sure the Laser will eventually take over the Wega's position in my studio and will be with me for at least 20 years, as I have no plans to upgrade every television I own to the latest model as soon as they come out. I think that's probably true of most people.

That being said, I think it makes sense for people like me to make a TV purchase which will be without the possibility of dead pixels or image burns, don't you?

Mitsubishi pioneered the laser tech.. I can see your one of those guys who watching tv is a big deal.. I don't keep tv's that long..If they come out with Laser tv's in the next few years,I will sell mine and buy one of those..Your dreaming if you think laser tv's are going to be under $4000 when they came out.. LED's last forever too.. I'm not worried about changing a bulb in my DLP. Big deal..

Laser TV is supposed to be under $2000 when it comes out. Thats one of the main reasons they think it will be a big hit.


Monker,,,, you're so stupid..... HD has been around since late 80's eh??? you crack me up dude!!!

I will put a personal bet on the line that no 40" or higher laser tv will be $2000 No way in hell.. They will start around $4000 and drop fast in about 6-8 months..

If you had bothered to read my post you'll see I said they will be high for the first 6-9 months then drop to current LCD prices for the same sizes you get in LCD's. This was my response to your statement: "Not for a couple years,its going to be like $,8-$10 grand trust me.. Your going to be waiting at least 5 yrs until is affordable." Yet now you're back tracking on your own statement and placing a personal bet with what I told you? Sheesh!

[STORY_TELLER]

Well, let's just say you're beyond delusional if you truly believe that ANYTHING is going to last for 50 years! I won't be around 50 years from now, and neither will any laser tv you buy in the next couple of years! That said, I do understand your point, and that you're speaking of video degradation.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd make this statement if you understood that my point was about video degradation.

I can only speak to what my personal choices will be. I look for serious increases in technological advancements before I purchase. LCD's and Plasma's aren't advanced enough for my tastes.

I still own and use a Sony Wega 27 inch TV which I purchased back in 1999. Gives me a super clear sharp image when I view SD DVD's. Even after I get a Laser TV, I'll still keep the Wega and use it in my studio. I'm pretty sure the Laser will eventually take over the Wega's position in my studio and will be with me for at least 20 years, as I have no plans to upgrade every television I own to the latest model as soon as they come out. I think that's probably true of most people.

That being said, I think it makes sense for people like me to make a TV purchase which will be without the possibility of dead pixels or image burns, don't you?

Mitsubishi pioneered the laser tech.. I can see your one of those guys who watching tv is a big deal.. I don't keep tv's that long..If they come out with Laser tv's in the next few years,I will sell mine and buy one of those..Your dreaming if you think laser tv's are going to be under $4000 when they came out.. LED's last forever too.. I'm not worried about changing a bulb in my DLP. Big deal..

18 months for 40" plus models. Less so for 27" and under, and I will buy mine at a discounted rate through my professional connections thank you very much.

[Greg]

I can tell you for a fact that HD TV's have absolutely NOT been around for more than 10 years in this country! In fact, it's been exactly 10 years. The first HD TV went on sale in the United States, to the public in 1998. Early analog HD TV's were available in Japan around 1992, so perhaps that's where you heard about the Aerosmith concert.

John from Boston

I think there is a big difference between what was considered HD in the 80's and what we know as HD by today's standards. The first commercialization of HD sets didn't happen until the late 90's even though Japan had built the first HDTV in the late 60's AND started producing HD programming in 1982. Again, the definition of HD in the 80's as compared to today's standards is/was probably different. As far as the Aerosmith concert in HD in the late 80's, I have no idea about this. It's possible.

[Journey69]

The Sony Bravia's trump them all. On LCD's, the real issue is the quality of the blacks. Most LCD's black colors appear gray.

You're 100% correct that the black level on LCD's are one of the major issues, as well as the artifact blurring (for sports viewing). While both have improved on LCD, plasma is simply a better technology in both areas. As I said, I own several of both types of tv's throughout my home, and I can honestly tell you that the picture quality simply isn't close!

As for your point about Sony...If you're saying Sony Bravia's "trump" high end plasma displays like Fujitsu and Pioneer, I couldn't disagree with you more! There isn't a single LCD on the market manufactured by ANYONE that offers a superior picture to a high end plasma. That may change in a couple of years, with the advent of laser and the advances in LCD technology, but it's not there yet!


John from Boston

No, I was referring to LCD's. Hence why I said "On LCD's". LCD's are superior in one area alone: They last longer.

The drawback with Plasma's is the screens don't last. Image burns are common. My brother in law had to dump his Sony plasma after 3 years. 4:3 images place vertical letterbox bars on the right and left side of the image and after a while, those bars burn into the screen, leaving you with discolored ghost bars floating over all your 16:9 imagery.

Not worth it in the long run.

Plasma's do NOT have a burn in problem anymore..Your bro's is older..Like 2-5 yrs old..Don't even try to tell me its an 06 or 07..They don't have that problem..And most now last 60,000 to 100,000 hours now.Its a non issue..Some just don't like the glare they produce..I still think plasma's look the best!

[STORY_TELLER]

Plasma's do NOT have a burn in problem anymore..Your bro's is older..Like 2-5 yrs old..Don't even try to tell me its an 06 or 07..They don't have that problem..And most now last 60,000 to 100,000 hours now.Its a non issue..Some just don't like the glare they produce..I still think plasma's look the best!

Okay, statements like this are why I'm having a problem with you: "..And most now last 60,000 to 100,000 hours now.Its a non issue"

That's an absolute all encompassing statement. Saying "they don't have a burn in problem anymore" means never. Yet in your follow up sentence you put a time frame on your "never". So which is it? More importantly, how do you know?

I heard Plasma's are being discontinued and replaced by LCD's for this very reason (the burn in). Personally, I've seen many different high end Plasma's and the high end Bravia LCD looks about as good to me, minus the glare. Even still, I recommend anyone considering a purchase to wait for Laser (unless they're ordering HD satellite, cable or purchasing blu-ray or HD-DVD in the immediate future).

So Journey69, how do you know this information exactly? Are you quoting some professional source or is this conjecture? If it's professional, please post a link.

[Journey69]

Plasma's do NOT have a burn in problem anymore..Your bro's is older..Like 2-5 yrs old..Don't even try to tell me its an 06 or 07..They don't have that problem..And most now last 60,000 to 100,000 hours now.Its a non issue..Some just don't like the glare they produce..I still think plasma's look the best!

Really? I heard Plasma's are being discontinued and replaced by LCD's for this very reason. Personally, I've seen high end Plasma's and the high end Bravia LCD looks about as good to me, minus the glare.

So how do you know this exactly? Are you quoting some professional source or is this conjecture? If it's professional, please post a link.

Story? Do you even read anything..I will post a link when I have time.. They just had a write up how plasma's are resurging.. Read this site.. AVS forum.com you might learn something.. Plasma's have a screen saver type technology now..Even when there was burn in,it was because someone would pause a movie too long too often and the notorious burn in is the tv stations logo in the lower right hand corner.. Its a non issue now.. Also, Sharps LCD is better than Sony's..Sony's looks nice,but Sharp is known for their LCD's.. Its similar how Pioneer's plasma's are the best.. I research this stuff daily,not to mention my best friend owns a theater business and I can get stuff wholesale! I will find links for you..

Here's one for you..read it hard.. Burn in not a problem anymore..! http://reviews.cnet.com/4351-12658_7-6583301.html

[conversationpc]

Do you guys have anything better to argue about, like politics or religion?

[STORY_TELLER]

Plasma's do NOT have a burn in problem anymore..Your bro's is older..Like 2-5 yrs old..Don't even try to tell me its an 06 or 07..They don't have that problem..And most now last 60,000 to 100,000 hours now.Its a non issue..Some just don't like the glare they produce..I still think plasma's look the best!

Really? I heard Plasma's are being discontinued and replaced by LCD's for this very reason. Personally, I've seen high end Plasma's and the high end Bravia LCD looks about as good to me, minus the glare.

So how do you know this exactly? Are you quoting some professional source or is this conjecture? If it's professional, please post a link.

Story? Do you even read anything..I will post a link when I have time.. They just had a write up how plasma's are resurging.. Read this site.. AVS forum.com you might learn something.. Plasma's have a screen saver type technology now..Even when there was burn in,it was because someone would pause a movie too long too often and the notorious burn in is the tv stations logo in the lower right hand corner.. Its a non issue now.. Also, Sharps LCD is better than Sony's..Sony's looks nice,but Sharp is known for their LCD's.. Its similar how Pioneer's plasma's are the best.. I research this stuff daily,not to mention my best friend owns a theater business and I can get stuff wholesale! I will find links for you..

You responded before my edit went through so I'll repost it here:
Okay, statements like this are why I'm having a problem with you: "..And most now last 60,000 to 100,000 hours now.Its a non issue"

That's an absolute all encompassing statement. Saying "they don't have a burn in problem anymore" means never. Yet in your follow up sentence you put a time frame on your "never". So which is it?

Continuing to answer your post:
My brother in law consults for Sony so I get information from the technology division's mouth and they know what goes on in the industry at large (before AVS). I've taken tours of the VIP showroom and have seen all the prototype technology that's around the corner first hand.

Plasma's are not re-surging. They're being discontinued across the board because except for a few aficionados here and there, sales are down. LCD's are cheaper to make and they're selling better. Plasma's will be gone when Laser's hit the market. LCD's will continue to compete though as they're used for other things (i.e. computer monitors, video monitors for movie sets using HD camera's, etc.)

As for the Plasma screen saver tech: Sounds like consideration was put into the problems (too late), however, all the screen saver tech in the world won't stop a burn in from a 4:3 image letterbox on a 16:9 television. That's more of what I'd be concerned about because most television broadcasts are 4:3 (even in HD). And don't tell me about stretch mode not looking distorted. It sure as hell does. I'm a video professional dude, I know what a 4:3 image stretched to 16:9 looks like and it sure as hell doesn't look natural or pleasing to the eye, lol... It's no solution.

So again, I would NOT invest in a Plasma people. The drawbacks outweigh the negligible image difference of a high end LCD and as I said, if you can wait, do so. Laser is around the corner and it will blow both technologies out of the water.