OT Pats cheating gone on since 2000.

[Enigma869]

I don't watch the NFL that much. College football is a lot better.

Yeah...That BCS (They should re-name it the BS system) system in college football works really well! College football is fucking ridiculous! I grew up a huge college football fan, but the BCS and endless bowl games simply cheapened the game. Now you have .500 teams competing in the annual "Toilet Bowl"! Just what every team has dreamed of...to compete in the "Poulan Weed Eater Bowl"!


John from Boston

[ebake02]

I don't watch the NFL that much. College football is a lot better.

Yeah...That BCS (They should re-name it the BS system) system in college football works really well! College football is fucking ridiculous! I grew up a huge college football fan, but the BCS and endless bowl games simply cheapened the game. Now you have .500 teams competing in the annual "Toilet Bowl"! Just what every team has dreamed of...to compete in the "Poulan Weed Eater Bowl"!


John from Boston

I'll admit the BCS system is fucked up but these college kids aren't playing for multi-million dollar endorsement deals and ridiculous overpriced contacts. College football players aren't getting paid so they give 100% all the time. All these spoiled overpaid NFL players get paid whether they try or not so there's no motivation to give 100%.

[Enigma869]

I'll admit the BCS system is fucked up

VERY FUCKED UP!

College football players aren't getting paid

Well, they're not supposed to be getting paid, as it's against NCAA regulations. That said, many of the prospective NFL crowd are getting paid and paid well! You're VERY naive if you believe otherwise! Does the name Reggie Bush ring a bell? For me personally, I'll ALWAYS take the pro game over the college game for one very simple reason...The talent is FAR superior!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Looks like Bellichick and Pioli are finally tired of the smear campaign...

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... speak_out/
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3251081

A couple of excerpts

From Bellichick
"In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said. "I have never authorized, or heard of, or even seen in any way, shape, or form any other team's walkthrough. We don't even film our own. We don't even want to see ourselves do anything, that's the pace that it's at. Regardless, I've never been a part of that."

In The Globe's report, Belichick discussed the league's taping rules and bristled at references to "Spygate," saying what the Patriots taped was in plain sight to the public.



From Pioli
Pioli said Walsh was terminated in January 2003 after he discovered Walsh was "secretly tape-recording conversations between him and me." Pioli said he learned of the recording because "two other employees saw him doing it, and I checked after, and heard it on the tape myself." "The job he was doing, there were two other guys doing it, so essentially the work he was doing wasn't up to the same level as the other people, in my opinion. However, I found out he was secretly tape-recording our conversations and he was fired," Pioli said. "There was never a confrontation. He was just released."


I knew this guy Walsh had been fired by the Patriots at the time he was fired, because it was reported in the Boston papers at the time. I just didn't know he was terminated for secretly recording people. Sounds like the dude has a voyeur problem!

John from Boston

[squirt1]

This should get interesting with depositions under oath. Does the NFL need astericks like baseball. The courts and Congress will straigiten it out because of the expemptions and RICO laws.

[squirt1]

Geez straighten is the word. Between age and arm brace I give up on typing.

[Red13JoePa]

Looks like Bellichick and Pioli are finally tired of the smear campaign...


From Bellichick
[b]"In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team,"

Hm.
On the surface it looks all tough and firey.
But tHis leaves wiggle room.
"Prior to playing that team" could me ANYthing.

The team was benefiting from it.
I'm with Strangegrey.
Otherwise it would not be going on.

[strangegrey]

I've said this before...I find this venomously nasty defense of Bilichick to be very common among people in New England. It's as if they're desperate to defend the titles won by the Patriots, despite any and all ethical issues. My brother, a native New Yorker, living in South East, New Hampshire for the past 4-5 years has officially made the transformation to utter Masshole, when I recently had a conversation with him...and his response to this issue is the same you see everywhere from New Englanders. A complete, venomously, anger-laden, ignorant defense of Bill Bilichick...and the same talking points you hear from all!! "This is a non-issue!!" followed by a slam down of the fist and a dismissal of the accusations. I suspect the Boston sports media (with the exception of the few that actually re-lit the story) suffers from the same ignorance and desperation.

The fact of the matter here, is that it is *not* a "non-issue", because if everyone was doing it (a completely LAME excuse if you ask me)...The Patriots wouldn't be the only team under the frying pan right now. I find it hard to believe, given the seemingly relentless way this team has "won" over the past few years, that they wouldn't collect evidence of other wrong-doing, given the fact that they were doing it themselves. Even if they didn't, someone else has to have something at least equal to the volume of mounting (and not to mention, destroyed ) evidence against the Patriots, specifically Bilichick. Where's the other team(s) involved in this scandal?

Another thing that's sad about Bilichick is the other way he's trying to 'dismiss' this (note: instead of 'defend'), is by simply stating that it was a 'misinterpretation of the rules'. Sorry, that's about as absolutely idiotic as I thought the clear was flaxseed oil! I guess Bilichick thinks football fans are stupid!


The fact remains that cheating in professional sports is such a huge problem these days and no one appears to be taking it seriously. Rampant Steroids in baseball may have resulted higher revenues (that were taken from teams that rightfully earned it and handed to the owners of shit-market teams to line their pockets), but it's destroying the fabric of the sport...and Selig, doesn't care about the consequences.

Same shit in football. Goodell doesn't care about integrity, if profits are up. He sees the Patriots as a golden cash cow for merchandising and the last thing he wants is his golden paycheck to suffer at the hands of justice. He's sticking his head in the sand, both with this and the use of performance enhancing drugs in the NFL...NE sports fans are sticking their heads in the sand, because they don't want the few titles their teams have won to not mean anything (yet the sad truth here is that it's hard to defend the fact that those titles/awards won with cheating DONT mean anything, no matter how many times you can spit out 'but it was only flaxseed oil!' or 'its a non-issue').

This is really the divide here. Because if Goodell wins out, the patriots will just have to shake off some bad stigma and they'll either discover another competitive advantage or return to being an above average football team, with a damn good QB and a douchebag for a Head Coach. If those that want to see integrity returned to the NFL win out, the Patriots and their fans will have to suffer a shame, probably not-dissimilar to that of which Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens is now dealing with.

I, for one, am quite interested to see this play out. If it were truly a non-issue, I would have expected this to go away, several weeks after the end of the football season...yet you can still see current stories on this. I suspect that Big Bad Bill is far more 'to blame' than anyone really understands.

I just don't understand how the mentality of ignorant defense in NE prevails. I am a proponent of seeing awards, titles and accolades stripped from athletes/teams that have been clouded by cheating....and geography/team allegiance doesn't matter to me. Hell, I feel the NY Yankees do NOT deserve their 99 and 2000 titles, thanks to Cheater Clemens' involvement. If my team won through cheating, I would be the first to say "give it back and throw them out on their ass". I find it odd that most sports fans are willing to forgive such a shameful act, just because it's their team.

I would ask Patriots fans if the roles were reversed and it were the Indianapolis Colts under the fire...and they were clouded by cheating, would you be so quick to dismiss this issue as a 'non-issue'...and to say "oh, everyone does it".

99% of NE sports fans that would forgive the above mentioned Colts would be complete fucking liars.


I say take away their fucking superbowl title and give it to Kurt Warner and The Rams. Oh, and while they're at it, they should account for all of the financial gain that the Patriots received as a result of the superbowl title, and hand it back to the Rams (adjusted for the time-value of money, of course!) Then throw fucking Bill Bilichick out of this sport, on his fat, hooded ass....If such treatment is good enough for Pete Rose....it's good enough for a far lesser man, in BiliChuck!

[Red13JoePa]

I suspect the Boston sports media (with the exception of the few that actually re-lit the story) suffers from the same ignorance and desperation.

You better believe it.
And since they've so thoroughly penetrated other sports media markets (there are transplanted boston writers in LA, Philly among the rest) and ESPECIALLY that damn ESPN we're gonna hear about non-issuedness of it all, and all these alleged "other (nameless, of course) teams who do the exact same thing"....


And you're right about Goddell, Franko.
If I'm PacMan Jones, or Micheal Vick, I'm going "WHOA!!!!!! I'm punished out the Wazoo and this dude gets a slap on the wrist for cheating and then MORE evidence of him cheating is brought to light and you destroy it?!?!?!? WTF????"

[Enigma869]

If I'm PacMan Jones, or Micheal Vick, I'm going "WHOA!!!!!! I'm punished out the Wazoo and this dude gets a slap on the wrist for cheating and then MORE evidence of him cheating is brought to light and you destroy it?!?!?!? WTF????"

Sorry Joepa...

Comparing Pacman Jones (who was involved in putting a guy in a wheelchair for the rest of his life) and Michael Vick (who was executing dogs, for sport) to a guy videotaping a coach's signals is fucking absurd! Listen, hate Belichick. I honestly don't give a fuck, really. Just don't tell me that paralyzing a man and eletrocuting dogs is the same to rolling videotape, because it makes you sound like a dope!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

Per the evidence he's completely compromised the integrity of fuck all knows HOW many games he's been involved in since 2001.

You're saying he hasn't done anything NEAR vick or jones?

The HELL he hasn't.

Tell that to ANYONE who's been cheated on bets over the years by this team.

This is a monstorous, MONSTOROUS issue when you talk about cheating and legal betting lines.

[Journey/Survivor]

I've said this before...I find this venomously nasty defense of Bilichick to be very common among people in New England. It's as if they're desperate to defend the titles won by the Patriots, despite any and all ethical issues. My brother, a native New Yorker, living in South East, New Hampshire for the past 4-5 years has officially made the transformation to utter Masshole, when I recently had a conversation with him...and his response to this issue is the same you see everywhere from New Englanders. A complete, venomously, anger-laden, ignorant defense of Bill Bilichick...and the same talking points you hear from all!! "This is a non-issue!!" followed by a slam down of the fist and a dismissal of the accusations. I suspect the Boston sports media (with the exception of the few that actually re-lit the story) suffers from the same ignorance and desperation.

The fact of the matter here, is that it is *not* a "non-issue", because if everyone was doing it (a completely LAME excuse if you ask me)...The Patriots wouldn't be the only team under the frying pan right now. I find it hard to believe, given the seemingly relentless way this team has "won" over the past few years, that they wouldn't collect evidence of other wrong-doing, given the fact that they were doing it themselves. Even if they didn't, someone else has to have something at least equal to the volume of mounting (and not to mention, destroyed ) evidence against the Patriots, specifically Bilichick. Where's the other team(s) involved in this scandal?

Another thing that's sad about Bilichick is the other way he's trying to 'dismiss' this (note: instead of 'defend'), is by simply stating that it was a 'misinterpretation of the rules'. Sorry, that's about as absolutely idiotic as I thought the clear was flaxseed oil! I guess Bilichick thinks football fans are stupid!


The fact remains that cheating in professional sports is such a huge problem these days and no one appears to be taking it seriously. Rampant Steroids in baseball may have resulted higher revenues (that were taken from teams that rightfully earned it and handed to the owners of shit-market teams to line their pockets), but it's destroying the fabric of the sport...and Selig, doesn't care about the consequences.

Same shit in football. Goodell doesn't care about integrity, if profits are up. He sees the Patriots as a golden cash cow for merchandising and the last thing he wants is his golden paycheck to suffer at the hands of justice. He's sticking his head in the sand, both with this and the use of performance enhancing drugs in the NFL...NE sports fans are sticking their heads in the sand, because they don't want the few titles their teams have won to not mean anything (yet the sad truth here is that it's hard to defend the fact that those titles/awards won with cheating DONT mean anything, no matter how many times you can spit out 'but it was only flaxseed oil!' or 'its a non-issue').

This is really the divide here. Because if Goodell wins out, the patriots will just have to shake off some bad stigma and they'll either discover another competitive advantage or return to being an above average football team, with a damn good QB and a douchebag for a Head Coach. If those that want to see integrity returned to the NFL win out, the Patriots and their fans will have to suffer a shame, probably not-dissimilar to that of which Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens is now dealing with.

I, for one, am quite interested to see this play out. If it were truly a non-issue, I would have expected this to go away, several weeks after the end of the football season...yet you can still see current stories on this. I suspect that Big Bad Bill is far more 'to blame' than anyone really understands.

I just don't understand how the mentality of ignorant defense in NE prevails. I am a proponent of seeing awards, titles and accolades stripped from athletes/teams that have been clouded by cheating....and geography/team allegiance doesn't matter to me. Hell, I feel the NY Yankees do NOT deserve their 99 and 2000 titles, thanks to Cheater Clemens' involvement. If my team won through cheating, I would be the first to say "give it back and throw them out on their ass". I find it odd that most sports fans are willing to forgive such a shameful act, just because it's their team.

I would ask Patriots fans if the roles were reversed and it were the Indianapolis Colts under the fire...and they were clouded by cheating, would you be so quick to dismiss this issue as a 'non-issue'...and to say "oh, everyone does it".

99% of NE sports fans that would forgive the above mentioned Colts would be complete fucking liars.


I say take away their fucking superbowl title and give it to Kurt Warner and The Rams. Oh, and while they're at it, they should account for all of the financial gain that the Patriots received as a result of the superbowl title, and hand it back to the Rams (adjusted for the time-value of money, of course!) Then throw fucking Bill Bilichick out of this sport, on his fat, hooded ass....If such treatment is good enough for Pete Rose....it's good enough for a far lesser man, in BiliChuck!

I don't doubt that Boston is a nice town in many ways.

But my problem with Boston is that I have come across so many arrogant and obnoxious people from Boston over the years. I used to think that Yankees fans in New York were the most obnoxious fans in Baseball, but since the late 90's it became more and more clear to me that Red Sox fans in Boston are the most obnoxious fans in Baseball. All though Yankees fans are still close behind.

I listen to a lot of Sports talk on the radio here in Cleveland, and there's this one guy that calls in all of the time that calls himself "The Bostonian." As the name would suggest, he is from Boston originally. Anyway, whenever the Boston teams are doing well he will call in everyday and talk about the Boston players like their Gods, and tries his best to annoy Clevelanders. When the Boston teams are doing poorly you won't hear from him untill things start looking better for his Boston team/s. After several years of his pain in the ass calls a few of the talk show hosts have baned him from their shows.

I used to be friends with a guy years ago that is a big time racist against black people. Even though he and I got along great in most ways we would get in arguments over his racist views. Anyway, both this guy and his father were major racists, and for that reason they were HUGE Celtics fans because of Larry Bird, and because of the image Boston had of being racist against black people. So everything out of their mouths was anti-Black-people and pro-Boston-Celtics. My buddy would even try to claim that Larry Bird was better than Michael Jordan.

Now in recent years I've seen/heard so much arrogance from Patriots fans. This might shock John from Boston, but I was rooting for the Patriots the first few times that they made it to the Super Bowl this decade. But this year I had finally had enough of all of the arrogance from Patriots fans, and the players themselves. So I was very happy that the Giants beat them this year.

There have been too many other times that I've come across people from Boston that have been obnoxious for me to be able to count.

I'm not saying every single person from Boston is like that, but it seems like Boston has way more of an arrogance and obnoxiousness problem than most cities in America.

[7 Wishes]

Everyone is disrespecting Boston now because it is the sports capital of the world right now, whether or not you like it.

Again. OTHER COACHES have ADMITTED TO TAPING EXACTLY LIKE THE PATRIOTS DID. THEY SAY REPEATEDLY THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE PATS GOT CAUGHT. Cowher, Johnson, Shell...all on record in public statements. THEY SAY THIS GOES ON EVERYWHERE.

The Pats are being singled out. Strangegrey, I love your sig, but come on. First of all, any poll ever conducted will tell you that other fans and athletes alike consider Philadelphia, New York, and Detroit to have the most obnoxious fans. Boston never even finishes in the top 10.

Your assertions are ludicrous at best, and reek of desperation and personal vendettas at worst. If you really think other teams would come forward and volunteer that they "cheated" as well, you're nuckin' futs. The best thing for the NFL to do is sweep it under the rug and make it go away. I have friends who work within the Patriots' organization and I know for a FACT that it is common knowledge this type of thing is pervasive and practiced by every team in the NFL. The steroid and HGH issue is going to pulverize this league within a couple of years, and Goodell knows it. Do you think he wants to let the cat out of the bag, that teams have been using "underhanded" tactics for years now? Of course not.

Think before you spew. And give me a break...no one has ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER of ANY INDESCRETIONS by the Patritos (other than farcical allegations by some looney Rams players) other than the Jets game...and you want them to give all their Super Bowl titles back? Your statements are so ridiculous that it offends common sense. Give it a rest already.

[Enigma869]

I don't doubt that Boston is a nice town in many ways.

But my problem with Boston is that I have come across so many arrogant and obnoxious people from Boston over the years. I used to think that Yankees fans in New York were the most obnoxious fans in Baseball, but since the late 90's it became more and more clear to me that Red Sox fans in Boston are the most obnoxious fans in Baseball. All though Yankees fans are still close behind.

I listen to a lot of Sports talk on the radio here in Cleveland, and there's this one guy that calls in all of the time that calls himself "The Bostonian." As the name would suggest, he is from Boston originally. Anyway, whenever the Boston teams are doing well he will call in everyday and talk about the Boston players like their Gods, and tries his best to annoy Clevelanders. When the Boston teams are doing poorly you won't hear from him untill things start looking better for his Boston team/s. After several years of his pain in the ass calls a few of the talk show hosts have baned him from their shows.

I used to be friends with a guy years ago that is a big time racist against black people. Even though he and I got along great in most ways we would get in arguments over his racist views. Anyway, both this guy and his father were major racists, and for that reason they were HUGE Celtics fans because of Larry Bird, and because of the image Boston had of being racist against black people. So everything out of their mouths was anti-Black-people and pro-Boston-Celtics. My buddy would even try to claim that Larry Bird was better than Michael Jordan.

Now in recent years I've seen/heard so much arrogance from Patriots fans. This might shock John from Boston, but I was rooting for the Patriots the first few times that they made it to the Super Bowl this decade. But this year I had finally had enough of all of the arrogance from Patriots fans, and the players themselves. So I was very happy that the Giants beat them this year.

There have been too many other times that I've come across people from Boston that have been obnoxious for me to be able to count.

I'm not saying every single person from Boston is like that, but it seems like Boston has way more of an arrogance and obnoxiousness problem than most cities in America.

Listen you piece of fucking useless shit! Don't come on to this board and call an entire city racist because of some ignorant fuck, who you call a friend! I can tell you as someone who grew up about 8 miles from Boston, and someone who has traveled throughout this great country, the city of Boston and the state of Massachusetts are the most tolerant places I've EVER been to! Anyone who thinks that racism doesn't exist EVERYWHERE has their head stuck up their ass! That said, I've lived in the south (just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina to be exact) for the past year, and I can assure you that you don't know what racism is, until you visit the south! In my 36 years of living in Boston, I NEVER EVER EVER heard one single person use the "N" word! In my 12 months of living in the south, I've heard it used over 100 times! Massachusetts also happens to be the first state in this country who allowed same sex couples to be legally married, once again demonstrating that we respect people for who they are and not who we think they should be!

As for your point about the one fan who calls into Cleveland sports talk radio stations...I can assure you that there isn't a city in America who has a sports talk radio station who doesn't have an obnoxious fan from EVERY city, calling in. I can tell you that in Boston, there are just as many Yankees fans from NY who call the local sports talk radio station as there are Red Sox fans, and calling them obnoxious would be disrespectful to the word!

As for your idiotic friend who you claim to be "pro-Celtics" because of Larry Bird, you can tell the guy, on my behalf, that he's a FUCKING MORON, and a DISGRACE to Celtics fans, EVERYWHERE! He also needs to do some homework on the history of the Celtics organization. I know this may be shocking to him but the Celtics existed LONG before Larry Bird ever showed up, and were already the most successful organization in the history of basketball, long before Larry Bird ever showed up! You can also tell him that the Boston Celtics and city of Boston were the first to have 5 starting players on any city's professional basketball team who were all African-American!

I realize that you have an agenda and hatred of Boston. I don't care about that, because I've always thought you were a complete jackass! I'm simply not going to allow a jackoff like you to come in here and start painting Boston as this hateful, racially intolerant city, when it has ZERO basis in reality! Like I said, if you want to see racism, I encourage you to leave the Mistake By The Lake and take a trip to the south, where many of these yahoos still proudly fly the Confederate Flag on their front porches! Then I suggest you take a trip to Boston and draw your own conclusions!


John from Boston

[strangegrey]

Gee, lemme guess...Masshole?

Everyone is disrespecting Boston now because it is the sports capital of the world right now, whether or not you like it.

Again. OTHER COACHES have ADMITTED TO TAPING EXACTLY LIKE THE PATRIOTS DID. THEY SAY REPEATEDLY THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE PATS GOT CAUGHT. Cowher, Johnson, Shell...all on record in public statements. THEY SAY THIS GOES ON EVERYWHERE.

The Pats are being singled out. Strangegrey, I love your sig, but come on. First of all, any poll ever conducted will tell you that other fans and athletes alike consider Philadelphia, New York, and Detroit to have the most obnoxious fans. Boston never even finishes in the top 10.

Your assertions are ludicrous at best, and reek of desperation and personal vendettas at worst. If you really think other teams would come forward and volunteer that they "cheated" as well, you're nuckin' futs. The best thing for the NFL to do is sweep it under the rug and make it go away. I have friends who work within the Patriots' organization and I know for a FACT that it is common knowledge this type of thing is pervasive and practiced by every team in the NFL. The steroid and HGH issue is going to pulverize this league within a couple of years, and Goodell knows it. Do you think he wants to let the cat out of the bag, that teams have been using "underhanded" tactics for years now? Of course not.

Think before you spew. And give me a break...no one has ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER of ANY INDESCRETIONS by the Patritos (other than farcical allegations by some looney Rams players) other than the Jets game...and you want them to give all their Super Bowl titles back? Your statements are so ridiculous that it offends common sense. Give it a rest already.

[7 Wishes]

Yeah, you're right. You're making sweeping generalizations about people who are among the most open-minded in the United States, and suggesting a team forfeit championships because of unsubstantiated and mostly disproven allegations.

Your sig does rock, though.

[Red13JoePa]

my problem with Boston is that I have come across so many arrogant and obnoxious people from Boston over the years. I used to think that Yankees fans in New York were the most obnoxious fans in Baseball, but since the late 90's it became more and more clear to me that Red Sox fans in Boston are the most obnoxious fans in Baseball.

I'm not saying every single person from Boston is like that, but it seems like Boston has way more of an arrogance and obnoxiousness problem than most cities in America.

I agree with this.
And this is with all due respect to, in fact excepting my brothers 7Wishes, Enigma and DaveCt because I know you guys are LIFElong Bosox fans.
But I paint 90 % of all Bosox and Pats fans with this brush.
I too, thought Yankees fans were bad, but it doesn't come CLOSE to this damn "Red Sox Naiton" that conveniently grew by leaps and bounds (much to the chagrin of the 3 above-mentioned longtime sox fan posters) after 04.

[Enigma869]

I agree with this.
And this is with all due respect to, in fact excepting my brothers 7Wishes, Enigma and DaveCt because I know you guys are LIFElong Bosox fans.
But I paint 90 % of all Bosox and Pats fans with this brush.
I too, thought Yankees fans were bad, but it doesn't come CLOSE to this damn "Red Sox Naiton" that conveniently grew by leaps and bounds (much to the chagrin of the 3 above-mentioned longtime sox fan posters) after 04.

The only reason nobody is on here calling Yankees fans "obnoxious" is because the Yankees haven't won anything in 7 years, so their fans have become a lot less vocal, as of late. I can tell you from experience, that Yankees fans are no less obnoxious today, than they've ever been! I know that Frank has relayed stories about Red Sox fans approaching him and friends down at Disney, when wearing their Yankees garb, but this shit has been happening (and still is) in Boston FOREVER, with Yankees fans! If I had a nickel for every time a Yankees fan came up to me to give me shit, I'd have as much money as Donald Trump!

As for the suggestion that the Red Sox are all of a sudden this big thing to come out of nowhere...It's simply ridiculous and not true. I can assure you that if you asked ANYONE who grew up in the Boston area, they would tell you that the Red Sox have ALWAYS been a religion in Boston. If you seriously believe this just happened in 2004, you've never been to Boston, and know NOTHING about the Red Sox and their fans! The Red Sox are the only team in baseball that actually broadcast their Spring Training workouts (and yes, I mean workouts, and not games) on live TV (and no, I don't watch). Their equipment truck leaving Boston for Spring Training in Florida every year is big news. I can also tell you, as a lifelong baseball fan, that the Red Sox sell out road stadiums as much as any team (including the Yankees) in baseball, and MLB actually tracks this. My point is there are Red Sox fans all over the country, and there always has been. Contrary to what anyone says, this is absolutely NOT some new phenomenon!

The bottom line is this...Fans in ANY city are going to be called "obnoxious" when their teams are winning. I remember when the Cowboys were winning Super Bowls...You couldn't escape those obnoxious fucks! The only reason they're quiet now is their team has been choking more than winning, as of late! The only reason nobody is calling any Atlanta sports fans "obnoxious" is because it couldn't be a less relevant sports city, if it tried! They've never won anything, and nobody gives a shit! As long as I have a single team in my hometown who is relevant, the whole world can call me obnoxious! Being "obnoxious" is ALWAYS better than being irrelevant! Also, most people calling other fans "obnoxious" are simply envious, because the teams they want to win simply aren't getting the job done. We've all been there. As I've said before, I don't believe that Boston is "The center of the sports universe". It's a GREAT sports city, and always has been. That said, this stuff is cyclical. When Tom Brady retires, the Patriots will go back to being an average NFL team. Such is life!


John from Boston

[Journey/Survivor]

I don't doubt that Boston is a nice town in many ways.

But my problem with Boston is that I have come across so many arrogant and obnoxious people from Boston over the years. I used to think that Yankees fans in New York were the most obnoxious fans in Baseball, but since the late 90's it became more and more clear to me that Red Sox fans in Boston are the most obnoxious fans in Baseball. All though Yankees fans are still close behind.

I listen to a lot of Sports talk on the radio here in Cleveland, and there's this one guy that calls in all of the time that calls himself "The Bostonian." As the name would suggest, he is from Boston originally. Anyway, whenever the Boston teams are doing well he will call in everyday and talk about the Boston players like their Gods, and tries his best to annoy Clevelanders. When the Boston teams are doing poorly you won't hear from him untill things start looking better for his Boston team/s. After several years of his pain in the ass calls a few of the talk show hosts have baned him from their shows.

I used to be friends with a guy years ago that is a big time racist against black people. Even though he and I got along great in most ways we would get in arguments over his racist views. Anyway, both this guy and his father were major racists, and for that reason they were HUGE Celtics fans because of Larry Bird, and because of the image Boston had of being racist against black people. So everything out of their mouths was anti-Black-people and pro-Boston-Celtics. My buddy would even try to claim that Larry Bird was better than Michael Jordan.

Now in recent years I've seen/heard so much arrogance from Patriots fans. This might shock John from Boston, but I was rooting for the Patriots the first few times that they made it to the Super Bowl this decade. But this year I had finally had enough of all of the arrogance from Patriots fans, and the players themselves. So I was very happy that the Giants beat them this year.

There have been too many other times that I've come across people from Boston that have been obnoxious for me to be able to count.

I'm not saying every single person from Boston is like that, but it seems like Boston has way more of an arrogance and obnoxiousness problem than most cities in America.

Listen you piece of fucking useless shit! Don't come on to this board and call an entire city racist because of some ignorant fuck, who you call a friend! I can tell you as someone who grew up about 8 miles from Boston, and someone who has traveled throughout this great country, the city of Boston and the state of Massachusetts are the most tolerant places I've EVER been to! Anyone who thinks that racism doesn't exist EVERYWHERE has their head stuck up their ass! That said, I've lived in the south (just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina to be exact) for the past year, and I can assure you that you don't know what racism is, until you visit the south! In my 36 years of living in Boston, I NEVER EVER EVER heard one single person use the "N" word! In my 12 months of living in the south, I've heard it used over 100 times! Massachusetts also happens to be the first state in this country who allowed same sex couples to be legally married, once again demonstrating that we respect people for who they are and not who we think they should be!

As for your point about the one fan who calls into Cleveland sports talk radio stations...I can assure you that there isn't a city in America who has a sports talk radio station who doesn't have an obnoxious fan from EVERY city, calling in. I can tell you that in Boston, there are just as many Yankees fans from NY who call the local sports talk radio station as there are Red Sox fans, and calling them obnoxious would be disrespectful to the word!

As for your idiotic friend who you claim to be "pro-Celtics" because of Larry Bird, you can tell the guy, on my behalf, that he's a FUCKING MORON, and a DISGRACE to Celtics fans, EVERYWHERE! He also needs to do some homework on the history of the Celtics organization. I know this may be shocking to him but the Celtics existed LONG before Larry Bird ever showed up, and were already the most successful organization in the history of basketball, long before Larry Bird ever showed up! You can also tell him that the Boston Celtics and city of Boston were the first to have 5 starting players on any city's professional basketball team who were all African-American!

I realize that you have an agenda and hatred of Boston. I don't care about that, because I've always thought you were a complete jackass! I'm simply not going to allow a jackoff like you to come in here and start painting Boston as this hateful, racially intolerant city, when it has ZERO basis in reality! Like I said, if you want to see racism, I encourage you to leave the Mistake By The Lake and take a trip to the south, where many of these yahoos still proudly fly the Confederate Flag on their front porches! Then I suggest you take a trip to Boston and draw your own conclusions!


John from Boston

You can fucking kiss my ass.

I didn't say that the entire city of Boston is like that. In fact quite the opposite, I said that I am NOT saying that the whole city is like that.

But as someone who is not from Boston I can tell you that Boston has had a long reputation for being racist against black people. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but the reputation does exist.

I didn't say that Boston is the most racist city in America, and I agree with you about the south in many cases.

I am no longer friends with the guy I was talking about. Biggest reason I stopped being friends with him is because of the racism, drinking and gambling problems he had.

You don't need to tell me that the Celtics existed way before Larry Bird, I know my sports.

Yes, I agree, every city is going to have it's share of obnoxious people. It's just that I personally have come across far more obnoxious people from Boston than I have from most other cities. I don't have any agenda against Boston. And like I said, I don't doubt it has a lot of good points. My biggest problem with Boston is just the arrogance that I've encountered from so many people from Boston. But I'm not saying that everyone from Boston is like that.

[Journey/Survivor]

I agree with this.
And this is with all due respect to, in fact excepting my brothers 7Wishes, Enigma and DaveCt because I know you guys are LIFElong Bosox fans.
But I paint 90 % of all Bosox and Pats fans with this brush.
I too, thought Yankees fans were bad, but it doesn't come CLOSE to this damn "Red Sox Naiton" that conveniently grew by leaps and bounds (much to the chagrin of the 3 above-mentioned longtime sox fan posters) after 04.

The only reason nobody is on here calling Yankees fans "obnoxious" is because the Yankees haven't won anything in 7 years, so their fans have become a lot less vocal, as of late. I can tell you from experience, that Yankees fans are no less obnoxious today, than they've ever been! I know that Frank has relayed stories about Red Sox fans approaching him and friends down at Disney, when wearing their Yankees garb, but this shit has been happening (and still is) in Boston FOREVER, with Yankees fans! If I had a nickel for every time a Yankees fan came up to me to give me shit, I'd have as much money as Donald Trump!

As for the suggestion that the Red Sox are all of a sudden this big thing to come out of nowhere...It's simply ridiculous and not true. I can assure you that if you asked ANYONE who grew up in the Boston area, they would tell you that the Red Sox have ALWAYS been a religion in Boston. If you seriously believe this just happened in 2004, you've never been to Boston, and know NOTHING about the Red Sox and their fans! The Red Sox are the only team in baseball that actually broadcast their Spring Training workouts (and yes, I mean workouts, and not games) on live TV (and no, I don't watch). Their equipment truck leaving Boston for Spring Training in Florida every year is big news. I can also tell you, as a lifelong baseball fan, that the Red Sox sell out road stadiums as much as any team (including the Yankees) in baseball, and MLB actually tracks this. My point is there are Red Sox fans all over the country, and there always has been. Contrary to what anyone says, this is absolutely NOT some new phenomenon!

The bottom line is this...Fans in ANY city are going to be called "obnoxious" when their teams are winning. I remember when the Cowboys were winning Super Bowls...You couldn't escape those obnoxious fucks! The only reason they're quiet now is their team has been choking more than winning, as of late! The only reason nobody is calling any Atlanta sports fans "obnoxious" is because it couldn't be a less relevant sports city, if it tried! They've never won anything, and nobody gives a shit! As long as I have a single team in my hometown who is relevant, the whole world can call me obnoxious! Being "obnoxious" is ALWAYS better than being irrelevant! Also, most people calling other fans "obnoxious" are simply envious, because the teams they want to win simply aren't getting the job done. We've all been there. As I've said before, I don't believe that Boston is "The center of the sports universe". It's a GREAT sports city, and always has been. That said, this stuff is cyclical. When Tom Brady retires, the Patriots will go back to being an average NFL team. Such is life!


John from Boston

I did say that Yankees fans are arrogant and obnoxious. In fact I said almost as obnoxious as Red Sox fans. Again, I'm not saying every Red Sox fan, or every Yankees fan. But I'm saying the bigger majority.

I agree with you about Cowboys fans. Funny thing is that in the late 70's and all of the 80's the Cowboys were my second favorite Football team. But in more recent years they've become one of the teams I hate most because of the obnoxious fans.

[Enigma869]

But as someone who is not from Boston I can tell you that Boston has had a long reputation for being racist against black people. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but the reputation does exist.

Listen Jamison Ball Washer...I don't need you to educate me about the city I grew up in. Boston's "long reputation for being racist against black people", as you put it, was borne out of the school busing episodes of the 1970's. Like most cities in America, Boston is a VERY different city today, than it was 35 years ago! As I said, as someone who grew up there, I NEVER even encountered one single person, who spewed the venom you accuse the people of my city being "known for".

You don't need to tell me that the Celtics existed way before Larry Bird, I know my sports.

No you don't!

It's just that I personally have come across far more obnoxious people from Boston than I have from most other cities.

The only reason you're supposedly coming across these "obnoxious people from Boston" is because your Indians CHOKED away a 3 games to 1 lead to a Boston team, because SaFAThia couldn't push his fat, bloated ass away from the buffet table, and ate a few too many boxes of Oreos, before the big game!

I don't have any agenda against Boston.

Your continued, MORONIC comments here prove otherwise!


John from Boston

p.s. Fuck Jimi Jamison

[Enigma869]

I did say that Yankees fans are arrogant and obnoxious. In fact I said almost as obnoxious as Red Sox fans. Again, I'm not saying every Red Sox fan, or every Yankees fan. But I'm saying the bigger majority.

Dude...I GUARANTEE you that if you actually came from a city who had sports teams that actually won something, all the other cities would be referring to your fans as "obnoxious", as well! Nobody is going to call your fans "obnoxious" when you have a collection of teams, who have never won anything (and by never...I mean in the past 40+ years)!


John from Boston

[Journey/Survivor]

But as someone who is not from Boston I can tell you that Boston has had a long reputation for being racist against black people. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but the reputation does exist.

Listen Jamison Ball Washer...I don't need you to educate me about the city I grew up in. Boston's "long reputation for being racist against black people", as you put it was borne out of the school busing episodes of the 1970's. Like most cities in America, Boston is a VERY different city today than it was 35 years ago! As I said, as someone who grew up there, I NEVER even encountered one single person, who spewed the venom you accuse the people of my city being "known for".

You don't need to tell me that the Celtics existed way before Larry Bird, I know my sports.

No you don't!

It's just that I personally have come across far more obnoxious people from Boston than I have from most other cities.

The only reason you're supposedly coming across these "obnoxious people from Boston" is because your Indians CHOKED away a 3 games to 1 lead to a Boston team, because SaFAThia couldn't push his fat, bloated ass away from the buffet table, and ate a few too many boxes of Oreos, before the big game!

I don't have any agenda against Boston.

Your continued, MORONIC comments here prove otherwise!


John from Boston

p.s. Fuck Jimi Jamison

Hey fucker, you don't want to keep making gay remarks about me.

Seriously, fly out here if you have the guts to call me gay to my face!

I've known that Boston is full of many arrogant and obnoxious people since the 1990's, it has nothing to do with the 2007 MLB playoffs.

And dude, I guarantee you I know every fucking bit as much as you know about sports.

Seriously, I dare you, come tell me to my face that I'm gay!

[Journey/Survivor]

I did say that Yankees fans are arrogant and obnoxious. In fact I said almost as obnoxious as Red Sox fans. Again, I'm not saying every Red Sox fan, or every Yankees fan. But I'm saying the bigger majority.

Dude...I GUARANTEE you that if you actually came from a city who had sports teams that actually won something, all the other cities would be referring to your fans as "obnoxious", as well! Nobody is going to call your fans "obnoxious" when you have a collection of teams, who have never won anything (and by never...I mean in the past 40+ years)!


John from Boston

The Indians will be the best team in the American League in 2008. The Browns will soon be the powerhouse team of the AFC. And when you have LeBron James your always going to be in the running for a tittle. Proof of that is the fact that the Cavs of the late 80's and early 90's were a better team than the Bulls, but the Bulls had Jordan, so they won anyway.

[Enigma869]

The Indians will be the best team in the American League in 2008. The Browns will soon be the powerhouse team of the AFC. And when you have LeBron James your always going to be in the running for a tittle. Proof of that is the fact that the Cavs of the late 80's and early 90's were a better team than the Bulls, but the Bulls had Jordan, so they won anyway.

You're an idiot! As It told you before, the Indians will NOT even win their own division! Do yourself a favor...bookmark this thread and talk to me at the end of September! The Detroit Tigers will win that division, going away! I can also guarantee you that the expansion Browns aren't getting ANYWHERE near the Super Bowl, next season! If they even make the playoffs, it will be as a Wildcard, and they'll be gone in the first round!

As for the Cadeavars...They've been one of the worst teams in the NBA since they joined the league. They're on par with the Los Angeles Clippers for the worst franchise record, EVER! If you seriously believe the Cadeavars were better than the Bulls, when Jordan was playing, you have once again proven that you don't have two brain cells connected when it comes to sports. The difference between you and I is that I wasn't telling anyone a year ago that the Celtics were going to make the playoffs. Just because a team plays in your hometown doesn't make them a good team, just because you want them to be!


John from Boston

[Journey/Survivor]

The Indians will be the best team in the American League in 2008. The Browns will soon be the powerhouse team of the AFC. And when you have LeBron James your always going to be in the running for a tittle. Proof of that is the fact that the Cavs of the late 80's and early 90's were a better team than the Bulls, but the Bulls had Jordan, so they won anyway.

You're an idiot! As It told you before, the Indians will NOT even win their own division! Do yourself a favor...bookmark this thread and talk to me at the end of September! The Detroit Tigers will win that division, going away! I can also guarantee you that the expansion Browns aren't getting ANYWHERE near the Super Bowl, next season! If they even make the playoffs, it will be as a Wildcard, and they'll be gone in the first round!

As for the Cadeavars...They've been one of the worst teams in the NBA since they joined the league. They're on par with the Los Angeles Clippers for the worst franchise record, EVER! If you seriously believe the Cadeavars were better than the Bulls, when Jordan was playing, you have once again proven that you don't have two brain cells connected when it comes to sports. The difference between you and I is that I wasn't telling anyone a year ago that the Celtics were going to make the playoffs. Just because a team plays in your hometown doesn't make them a good team, just because you want them to be!


John from Boston

The Indians will win the Central division because their pitching is too strong. I know that the Tigers added Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, but the Indians pitching is too strong for the Tigers to overcome.

For the record Las Vegas odds-makers are predicting the Browns to win the AFC North in 2008.

The Cavs had a few stretches where they were one of the worst teams in the NBA, but they do not come close to having been the worst ever. Do some research before you say stupid things. I've heard many, many national sports commentators say that the Cavs of the late 1980's and early 1990's were a better TEAM than the Bulls were at that time. But that was obvious to anyone who knew anything about Basketball. Obviously Michael Jordan was the best player on either team, but the Cavs were the better all around team.

Here's another fact for you...
In 2007 Cleveland was the only city that had winning records in all three of the MLB, NFL and NBA.

[Enigma869]

The Indians will win the Central division because their pitching is too strong. I know that the Tigers added Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, but the Indians pitching is too strong for the Tigers to overcome.

Dude...You need to get a grip! C.C. FAT MAN is a box of Oreos away from eating himself out of major league baseball! Fausto Carmona had a great season, but it's the only one you have to judge the guy on! Borowski, Cleveland's closer, SUCKS! He's one of the worst closers in the majors! As for Willis...Willis SUCKS! Detroit has enough pitching to compete with Cleveland, and far better hitting!

For the record Las Vegas odds-makers are predicting the Browns to win the AFC North in 2008.

Who gives a shit??? Listen, Vegas odds-makers mean nothing in the real world! They predicted the Patriots were going to win the Super Bowl this season (and Vegas said their opponent in the Super Bowl would be the Dallas Cowboys), and how did that work out? Also, you're bragging about winning the AFC North, which means nothing, when the playoffs start! Pittsburgh is the only real competition in that division. Don't get too carried away with your Browns hard-on dude! Derek Anderson had one good season. Let's not make the guy into Joe Montana, just yet! One other point...If you're really paying attention to what Vegas odds-makers are saying, you should know that they have once again picked the Patriots to win it all next year, which means your Browns are only going to the Super Bowl if they buy a ticket!

The Cavs had a few stretches where they were one of the worst teams in the NBA, but they do not come close to having been the worst ever.

Once again, you're wrong! Check your facts before putting statements out there as fact! The reality is that not counting any expansion teams who have joined the NBA in the past 20 years (Bobcats, Heat, Grizzlies, Raptors, etc.), only ONE team (The Los Angeles Clippers) has fewer wins, over the course of their entire existence than the Cadeavars have! Also, not counting the expansion teams, only two teams (Dallas and the Clippers) have fewer playoff appearances than Cleveland, in their history. The Cadeavars also hold the distinction of only winning their division ONE TIME in their entire history! They are the only non-expansion team to have only won their division only one time! The Clippers are the only team to have never won their division. You should be seeing a pattern here. The Clippers and Cadeavars share a whole lot of the same ABYSMAL records! Those are facts!

Do some research before you say stupid things.

Are you fucking serious? Listen fuckwad, I've forgotten more about sports than you'll EVER know! I would wipe the floor with your ass, on ANY sports topic, GUARANFUCKINGTEED! I can assure you that if you insist upon coming in here and spewing off at the mouth about a bunch of shit that simply has ZERO basis in fact, I'll continue to keep bitch slapping your Jamison worshipping ass!

I've heard many, many national sports commentators say that the Cavs of the late 1980's and early 1990's were a better TEAM than the Bulls were at that time.

That's the difference between you and I. I actually don't rely upon dopey "sports commentators" to form my opinions for me. I'm actually capable of using my intellect to analyze the signals my eyeballs are sending to my brain! Any sports commentator who said the Cadeavars were better than the Bulls was smoking crack! The reality is that the Bulls could have benched their entire team, and Jordan would have wiped the floor with that sorry franchise, all by himself!

But that was obvious to anyone who knew anything about Basketball.

You have once again proven what a complete fucking MORON you are! It wasn't "obvious" to anyone with the sense of sight that your PUTRID Cadeavars were a better team than the Bulls were! There aren't 3 people in Cleveland who are actually stupid enough to believe this bullshit! As for your intimation that I know nothing about basketball...Once again, I'd wipe the floor with your sorry ass! Boston had more basketball history after their first season than Cleveland has managed to compile in forty fucking years! I know this is going to shock you, but the sport of basketball was actually invented in the state of Massachusetts, and we are home to the most accomplished team in the history of the NBA. I would say those credentials tell me that it's a state that has some level of basketball knowledge!

Here's another fact for you...
In 2007 Cleveland was the only city that had winning records in all three of the MLB, NFL and NBA.

Once again, you continue to prove what a complete dope you are! What fucking difference does it make? What did Cleveland win in 2007? Let me answer that for you...NOTHING! You also seem to be forgetting that many cities actually have NHL teams, and the fact that Cleveland is a second-class city, without 4 major pro sports teams doesn't mean you just get to count three! Check back in with me when The Mistake By The Lake actually wins something!


John from Boston

[Rick]

C.C. FAT MAN is a box of Oreos away from eating himself out of major league baseball!

[Journey/Survivor]

The Indians will win the Central division because their pitching is too strong. I know that the Tigers added Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, but the Indians pitching is too strong for the Tigers to overcome.

Dude...You need to get a grip! C.C. FAT MAN is a box of Oreos away from eating himself out of major league baseball! Fausto Carmona had a great season, but it's the only one you have to judge the guy on! Borowski, Cleveland's closer, SUCKS! He's one of the worst closers in the majors! As for Willis...Willis SUCKS! Detroit has enough pitching to compete with Cleveland, and far better hitting!

For the record Las Vegas odds-makers are predicting the Browns to win the AFC North in 2008.

Who gives a shit??? Listen, Vegas odds-makers mean nothing in the real world! They predicted the Patriots were going to win the Super Bowl this season (and Vegas said their opponent in the Super Bowl would be the Dallas Cowboys), and how did that work out? Also, you're bragging about winning the AFC North, which means nothing, when the playoffs start! Pittsburgh is the only real competition in that division. Don't get too carried away with your Browns hard-on dude! Derek Anderson had one good season. Let's not make the guy into Joe Montana, just yet! One other point...If you're really paying attention to what Vegas odds-makers are saying, you should know that they have once again picked the Patriots to win it all next year, which means your Browns are only going to the Super Bowl if they buy a ticket!

The Cavs had a few stretches where they were one of the worst teams in the NBA, but they do not come close to having been the worst ever.

Once again, you're wrong! Check your facts before putting statements out there as fact! The reality is that not counting any expansion teams who have joined the NBA in the past 20 years (Bobcats, Heat, Grizzlies, Raptors, etc.), only ONE team (The Los Angeles Clippers) has fewer wins, over the course of their entire existence than the Cadeavars have! Also, not counting the expansion teams, only two teams (Dallas and the Clippers) have fewer playoff appearances than Cleveland, in their history. The Cadeavars also hold the distinction of only winning their division ONE TIME in their entire history! They are the only non-expansion team to have only won their division only one time! The Clippers are the only team to have never won their division. You should be seeing a pattern here. The Clippers and Cadeavars share a whole lot of the same ABYSMAL records! Those are facts!

Do some research before you say stupid things.

Are you fucking serious? Listen fuckwad, I've forgotten more about sports than you'll EVER know! I would wipe the floor with your ass, on ANY sports topic, GUARANFUCKINGTEED! I can assure you that if you insist upon coming in here and spewing off at the mouth about a bunch of shit that simply has ZERO basis in fact, I'll continue to keep bitch slapping your Jamison worshipping ass!

I've heard many, many national sports commentators say that the Cavs of the late 1980's and early 1990's were a better TEAM than the Bulls were at that time.

That's the difference between you and I. I actually don't rely upon dopey "sports commentators" to form my opinions for me. I'm actually capable of using my intellect to analyze the signals my eyeballs are sending to my brain! Any sports commentator who said the Cadeavars were better than the Bulls was smoking crack! The reality is that the Bulls could have benched their entire team, and Jordan would have wiped the floor with that sorry franchise, all by himself!

But that was obvious to anyone who knew anything about Basketball.

You have once again proven what a complete fucking MORON you are! It wasn't "obvious" to anyone with the sense of sight that your PUTRID Cadeavars were a better team than the Bulls were! There aren't 3 people in Cleveland who are actually stupid enough to believe this bullshit! As for your intimation that I know nothing about basketball...Once again, I'd wipe the floor with your sorry ass! Boston had more basketball history after their first season than Cleveland has managed to compile in forty fucking years! I know this is going to shock you, but the sport of basketball was actually invented in the state of Massachusetts, and we are home to the most accomplished team in the history of the NBA. I would say those credentials tell me that it's a state that has some level of basketball knowledge!

Here's another fact for you...
In 2007 Cleveland was the only city that had winning records in all three of the MLB, NFL and NBA.

Once again, you continue to prove what a complete dope you are! What fucking difference does it make? What did Cleveland win in 2007? Let me answer that for you...NOTHING! You also seem to be forgetting that many cities actually have NHL teams, and the fact that Cleveland is a second-class city, without 4 major pro sports teams doesn't mean you just get to count three! Check back in with me when The Mistake By The Lake actually wins something!


John from Boston

You like to talk tough hiding behind a computer.

Dude, I would blow your ass out of the water on sports knowledge, you don't know nearly what you think you do. And you prove that with all of the dumb-fuck comments you make.

I didn't say the odds makers picking the Browns proves anything. But it does show that educated sports fans (unlike yourself) are picking the Browns to win the division next year.

Look dipshit, FACT, mistake on the lake was a reference to Cleveland Municipal Stadium, not the city of Cleveland. You can call Cleveland the mistake on the lake until the fucking cows come home, but it's never gonna make it true. Cleveland's real nickname is The Best Location In The Nation. Other Cleveland nicknames are The Forest City and The Northcoast.

Dude, you don't know jack shit about Basketball history. If you did, and if you had a fucking brain, you would know that the Cavs were a much better TEAM than the Bulls. The Bulls were Jordan and Pippen and that's it. The Cavs had Brad Daugherty, Mark Price, Larry Nance, Ron Harper, John "Hotrod" Williams, Craig Ehlo and Steve Kerr.

Joe Borowski sucks??? Yeah, that's why he led the American League in saves last year with 45. I'm sure you don't know this because you don't know jackshit , but this past offseason the Indians signed the all time saves leader in Japan. Travis Hafner will rebound this year and will give the Tribe much more offense.

If the Cavs suck so much then why did Jason Kidd ask to be traded to the Cavs?

Let's review this past weekend...LeBron James is named the All-Star MVP, Daniel Gibson finishes second in the 3-point contest, the middleweight champion of the world Kelly Pavlik from Youngstown Ohio successfully defends his title, and Clevelander Ryan Newman wins the Daytona 500. Oh, and a Boston judge is caught driving around wearing a dress and fishnet stockings.

Dude, learn something about sports, and then talk to me!

[Red13JoePa]

You're an idiot!

I love the simplicity of this.

Vintage Enigma right there.