OT: Van Halen postpones tour

[Indyjoe]

He can shred, for sure. His best record was with JSS.

Instrumentally, yes, but I prefer "Odyssey" overall because of the combination of Yngwie and Joe Lynn Turner. Great duo there, in my opinion.

There is a great DVD that I just got with both.

In case you haven't checked it out...

Yngwie Malmsteen Far Beyond the Sun
Rising Force: Live in Japan '85 with Jeff Scott Soto and Trial By Fire: Live in Leningrad '89 with Joe Lynn Turner

http://www.amazon.com/Far-Beyond-Sun-Yn ... 180&sr=8-1

The only bad thing about that DVD is that they cut out 3-4 songs from each set.... other than that, a great DVD, I highly recommend.

Odyssey is one of the best hard rock releases, ever!!!

I was disappointed that Don't Let It End wasn't on there, but wasn't sure what else was cut?

[Voyager]

I had tickets to see Van Halen in Saint Louis on 10-28-07 and it got rescheduled for 03-30-08. I've had this ominous feeling that the rescheduled date is going to be get cancelled also. Some people are quick to accuse me of saying "the sky is falling" every time I hear a bad rumor about Van Halen. I've just been around addicts enough to know that they are not stable. Eddie has serious addiction issues, and with addiction comes dysfunction. To expect dysfunction out of an addict is like expecting someone with Alzheimer's to forget something. It's a disease people. If Eddie is not hitting a 12-step meeting in every other city that Van Halen plays in, the dude will end up succumbing to his disease. That's a simple fact. The miracle is that the tour hasn't imploded before now.

I've heard some rumors that things are not well in the Van Halen camp right now. I guess we'll probably know in a few days.

[Saint John]

It's a disease people.

Cancer is a disease. ALS is a disease. Alcoholism, like other addictions, is due to a lack of will and weakness. Sure, there are some pre-existing conditions that make certain people more susceptible to lapses, but you can't go out and "get" alcoholism. Nor can you just wake up with it one day. I don't give a shit what you say, it's not a "disease."

[Voyager]

It's a disease people.

Cancer is a disease. ALS is a disease. Alcoholism, like other addictions, is due to a lack of will and weakness. Sure, there are some pre-existing conditions that make certain people more susceptible to lapses, but you can't go out and "get" alcoholism. Nor can you just wake up with it one day. I don't give a shit what you say, it's not a "disease."

You are extremely mistaken, but your misunderstanding of addiction is a very prevalent attitude among the general population. I'm not trying to shame you, but if you studied how addictions affect people, you would realize that they have no control over their disease. I've done a lot of research on this topic because my dad and my brother are both addicts.

It is true that people first choose to use addictive substances in a moment of weakness, but once the brain has opened the neuropathway to an addictive substance, all bets are off. The issue of "choice" is no longer an option available to the addict. Here is a little insight on the disease of addiction that might interest you:

The reason addicts have lost control is because they have suffered permanent physical neurological changes based in their brains and nervous systems. The disorder manifests in long term obsessive-compulsive behaviors outside the realm of the addicts own control. It is true enough that the use of chemicals begins with chosen behavior. But if alcoholism or addiction develops, the problem has moved outside the realm of free choice. It has developed into a long term mental and physical neurological disorder. All the emotional 'feelings' involved in drug or alcohol seeking are based in neurology. Addiction is based in physical dependency created by altered neurotransmitter balances, and driven by millions upon millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain. The new neurological pathways are permanently established, and they will not just disappear. The primary neurological disorder is only complicated by physical dependence on the substances. The physical dependence on the substances is secondary! Physical drug withdrawal does not change the underlying neurological addictive disorder. After drug withdrawal, long term overpowering cravings are predictable. These cravings are, in reality, spontaneous nerve impulses. Even in the longer term, overwhelming cravings are outside the addicts control.

Without a recovery program, Eddie has no power over his disease. That is a documented scientific fact my friend.

[Saint John]

I'll meet you halfway on this, Voyager. HOWEVER, for you to say that there is an absolute ZERO chance that he can beat this alone is BULLSHIT...COMPLETE bullshit. I've seen guys that were 24/7 drunks (having worked in a bar for 6 and a half years) stop cold turkey...guys that have been drinking for 30-40 years. It's usually the doctor telling them "If you continue to drink you are going to die soon." Or "You're going to die soon, but drinking will speed up the process." That COMPLETELY debunks you're "it out of their hands, they have no control" sentiment. I agree though, EVH has shown himself to be weak and certainly needs to be babysat.

[yulog]

If alcoholism runs in your family, you have the predisposition for the disease(you cant catch it so to speak ,but you sure can have the genetics for it)

[Voyager]

I'll meet you halfway on this, Voyager.

Check this out SJ:

Consider the following: Most people can not wiggle their ears. The wiggling of the ears is really nothing but flexing the muscles of the scalp above the ears. The reason most people can not wiggle their ears is because they are not familiar with the neurological pathway which controls the muscle of the scalp above their ears. However, without exception, every person in the world can be trained to wiggle their ears. Simply by applying electrodes to the muscles of the scalp above the ears causes the muscles to flex, or spasm. Once the person feels where these muscles are, he finds that in fact he CAN wiggle his ears. The only reason he could not wiggle his ears before, was because he had not established the neurological pathway which enabled him to do so. Like turning on a switch - a neurological pathway can be established simply by passing a charge of electrical current into the nerves of the body. Once a person has learned to wiggle his ears - he might actually do it spontaneously and unintentionally - just because the words are mentioned.

This example is intended to illustrate how a simple neurological pathway is established. Before the electrode - there was no neurological pathway. After the electrode - the pathway has been established. The addictive neurological response to drugs and alcohol on the brain is infinitely more complex than this, but the physical basis is the same. The overwhelming craving for drugs or alcohol that endlessly defeats addicts is in reality a neurological impulse - and they have absolutely no control over the craving when it is triggered. All they know is that they want, they need, they feel they MUST have the drug. This "desire", this craving is not a free choice. This desire is an electro-chemical neurological brain impulse. A person who suffers from these cravings to the detriment of his own life, and the lives of others, is suffering from a physical, neurological disease termed addictive disorder.

Just a little food for thought.

I have seen addicts go for one, five, ten, and even twenty years sober and in one moment of weakness they succumb to the disease again and go back to using in an uncontrollable manner. Without an ongoing recovery program, most of them are helpless against using again.

[Saint John]

I'll meet you halfway on this, Voyager.

Check this out SJ:

Consider the following: Most people can not wiggle their ears. The wiggling of the ears is really nothing but flexing the muscles of the scalp above the ears. The reason most people can not wiggle their ears is because they are not familiar with the neurological pathway which controls the muscle of the scalp above their ears. However, without exception, every person in the world can be trained to wiggle their ears. Simply by applying electrodes to the muscles of the scalp above the ears causes the muscles to flex, or spasm. Once the person feels where these muscles are, he finds that in fact he CAN wiggle his ears. The only reason he could not wiggle his ears before, was because he had not established the neurological pathway which enabled him to do so. Like turning on a switch - a neurological pathway can be established simply by passing a charge of electrical current into the nerves of the body. Once a person has learned to wiggle his ears - he might actually do it spontaneously and unintentionally - just because the words are mentioned.

This example is intended to illustrate how a simple neurological pathway is established. Before the electrode - there was no neurological pathway. After the electrode - the pathway has been established. The addictive neurological response to drugs and alcohol on the brain is infinitely more complex than this, but the physical basis is the same. The overwhelming craving for drugs or alcohol that endlessly defeats addicts is in reality a neurological impulse - and they have absolutely no control over the craving when it is triggered. All they know is that they want, they need, they feel they MUST have the drug. This "desire", this craving is not a free choice. This desire is an electro-chemical neurological brain impulse. A person who suffers from these cravings to the detriment of his own life, and the lives of others, is suffering from a physical, neurological disease termed addictive disorder.

Just a little food for thought.

I have seen addicts go for one, five, ten, and even twenty years sober and in one moment of weakness they succumb to the disease again and go back to using in an uncontrollable manner. Without an ongoing recovery program, most of them are helpless against using again.

Cool read. Thanks. I still disagree to a certain extent, but that was very interesting.

[JrnyScarab]

Hey S.J. & Voyager,

Just read this article today. Explains the biochemical aspect in nice detail along with new treatments being worked on. Thought you might enjoy this read.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/114716

[Saint John]

Hey S.J. & Voyager,

Just read this article today. Explains the biochemical aspect in nice detail along with new treatments being worked on. Thought you might enjoy this read.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/114716

Thank you.

[Rip Rokken]

Looks like the topic has been well covered, but I'll go ahead add my two cents in as well. True alcoholism is definitely a disease, and it's incurable -- you don't grow out of it, and you never learn to successfully handle it for any extended period of time. I personally disagree with some of what comes out AA doctrine, though, such as how willpower and resolve have nothing to do with recovery -- I think they definitely can play a part. I'm absolutely an alcoholic who will never be able to drink like a normal person, but I was never anywhere close to a gutter drunk, never drank during the day, etc. Still, my drinking poisoned my soul, my thinking, my relationships, and my job, and I pretty much made the decision to stop when I was at a point where I really had no choice. I did go to AA meetings for a while, long enough to realize that I wasn't alone and to figure out exactly what factors made up my alcoholism. After that, I decided I didn't want "alcoholic" to define my identity, and didn't want to rehash my past meeting after meeting, so I just took what I'd learned and moved forward. By the grace of God, I've had no struggles or even been tempted for the past 3 years, but I know good and well what would happen if I ever decided I could drink again.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about what defines an alcoholic, and it usually centers around the amount or frequency that someone drinks -- sometimes that really has nothing to do with it. It's a combination of physiological and psychological factors that normal drinkers do not experience. It's also neither a moral failure, or simply a lack of will or resolve. Much more involved than that.

I'm just a normal guy, though, who doesn't want anyone around me to be bothered by my sobriety. It's good to have a few of us around in case anyone needs a ride, ya know?

[Voyager]

Thanks Rip. Keep coming back.

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0f2N5ae3wU

Check out Ed at 4:48 on this video from the 2-20-08 Fort Lauderdale show - Eddie slams his guitar down at the end of the song, and then tips over two guitar amps that almost hit DLR on his way off stage. Then two shows get cancelled. Something is definitely up.

[JrnyScarab]

Thanks Rip. Keep coming back.

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0f2N5ae3wU

Check out Ed at 4:48 on this video from the 2-20-08 Fort Lauderdale show - Eddie slams his guitar down at the end of the song, and then tips over two guitar amps that almost hit DLR on his way off stage. Then two shows get cancelled. Something is definitely up.

Almost looks like he was trying to hit Dave with them. Like a slingshot or something. Just great, I have tickets for the Manchester, NH show on March 11. Hope this isn't the end of the tour.

[JH'sTXfan]

Thanks Rip. Keep coming back.

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0f2N5ae3wU

Check out Ed at 4:48 on this video from the 2-20-08 Fort Lauderdale show - Eddie slams his guitar down at the end of the song, and then tips over two guitar amps that almost hit DLR on his way off stage. Then two shows get cancelled. Something is definitely up.

Very unprofessional. He needs a break.

[Deb]

Something is definitely up between those 2, almost looked like EVH was trying to pull his hand from Dave's during the bows too. Now that is sad.

[Ms_M]

Something is definitely up between those 2, almost looked like EVH was trying to pull his hand from Dave's during the bows too. Now that is sad.

I heard Valerie Bertinelli say in an interview years ago that if Ed ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. I wonder if that's where we are now...

[Voyager]

Something is definitely up between those 2, almost looked like EVH was trying to pull his hand from Dave's during the bows too. Now that is sad.

I heard Valerie Bertinelli say in an interview years ago that if Ed ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. I wonder if that's where we are now...

I'm sure you can hear more if you catch her interview with Oprah tomorrow. She's going to be promoting her new tell-all book. I'm sure the shit will hit the fan. My guess is that this is what is causing the recent rage in the Van Halen camp. Just a guess.

[weatherman90]

Something is definitely up between those 2, almost looked like EVH was trying to pull his hand from Dave's during the bows too. Now that is sad.

I heard Valerie Bertinelli say in an interview years ago that if Ed ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. I wonder if that's where we are now...

I'm sure you can hear more if you catch her interview with Oprah tomorrow. She's going to be promoting her new tell-all book. I'm sure the shit will hit the fan. My guess is that this is what is causing the recent rage in the Van Halen camp. Just a guess.

Great - now I have to watch OPRAH tomorrow.

[LazzMan]

I found this talking about the end of the last reunion w/Hagar. Looks like it could be deja vu with Roth. EVH really needs to grow up. A spoon-fed rich kid who is used to holding his breath and getting everything he wants. What a baby...

Hagar reunion
In 2004, Van Halen returned with Hagar as their lead singer. A greatest hits package, The Best Of Both Worlds, was released to coincide with the band's reunion tour.

The band toured the US, covering 80 cities.[6] Despite taking $55 million dollars, it was revealed in Rolling Stone that the promoters had actually lost money on the tour. The final date on the tour appeared to bring tensions between Eddie Van Halen and Sammy Hagar to the surface, culminating in Eddie violently smashing his guitar before leaving the stage on the last date.
Reviews of the tour differed - some reviews were enthusiastic, whereas many stated the band had poor musicianship and the concerts contained apparently drunken behaviour. Michael Anthony stated that Eddie regularly performed in an alcoholic stupor:

“ I hate to talk smack about anyone in the band or whatever, but, y'know, Eddie, you know, he's still doing a bit of drinking and everything. There were nights where it was kind of like a rollercoaster, up or down, and myself, I would have liked to have seen him totally clean up if we were gonna take this further.”

[Deb]

Looks like the topic has been well covered, but I'll go ahead add my two cents in as well. True alcoholism is definitely a disease, and it's incurable -- you don't grow out of it, and you never learn to successfully handle it for any extended period of time. I personally disagree with some of what comes out AA doctrine, though, such as how willpower and resolve have nothing to do with recovery -- I think they definitely can play a part. I'm absolutely an alcoholic who will never be able to drink like a normal person, but I was never anywhere close to a gutter drunk, never drank during the day, etc. Still, my drinking poisoned my soul, my thinking, my relationships, and my job, and I pretty much made the decision to stop when I was at a point where I really had no choice. I did go to AA meetings for a while, long enough to realize that I wasn't alone and to figure out exactly what factors made up my alcoholism. After that, I decided I didn't want "alcoholic" to define my identity, and didn't want to rehash my past meeting after meeting, so I just took what I'd learned and moved forward. By the grace of God, I've had no struggles or even been tempted for the past 3 years, but I know good and well what would happen if I ever decided I could drink again.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about what defines an alcoholic, and it usually centers around the amount or frequency that someone drinks -- sometimes that really has nothing to do with it. It's a combination of physiological and psychological factors that normal drinkers do not experience. It's also neither a moral failure, or simply a lack of will or resolve. Much more involved than that.

I'm just a normal guy, though, who doesn't want anyone around me to be bothered by my sobriety. It's good to have a few of us around in case anyone needs a ride, ya know?

Totally agree Rip with all you've said. I babysat one for 20 years always hoping and believing things would change......until I hit my brick wall/had enough. I am so glad you were able to do something about it once and for all for your family's sake. Good on ya.

[Moose]

[MidNightTrain]

Looks like it is just a temporary setback, they just announced a concert date in Winnipeg for May 3rd

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki ... 4784c.html

the bar rumor sounds hokey to me, especially with the bar name as 'Rapture', but nothing would surprise me with this band, another rumor is that they weren't happy with the ticket sales of these 2 venues, VH already played in Atlanta a few weeks ago and there were still plenty of seats available in Duluth about 25 miles north of Atlanta. Maybe both of these rumors are true, a bar fight and the hell with these 2 shows.

[Red13JoePa]

Alcoholism and drug addiction's nothing but mind over matter and will-power.

If drugs and alcohol ceased to exist the addict would live on, the dependancy being merely mental.

[MrsPerry]

a book i would most certainly read.

i wonder what time Oprah comes on here, i never watch.

[conversationpc]

Alcoholism and drug addiction's nothing but mind over matter and will-power.

If drugs and alcohol ceased to exist the addict would live on, the dependancy being merely mental.

True, though absolutely everyone who's ever lived, with the exception of Jesus himself, has had something that they struggle with that is merely a mind-over-matter or will-power issue.

[Rocker Chic]

Maybe DLR developed a throat condition and they're in talks with Jeff Scott Soto.

Jeff does a better DLR than Dave does!

Debbie

[Playitloudforme]

Alcoholism and drug addiction's nothing but mind over matter and will-power.

Joe, sorry, I beg to differ. Coming from a place of 17 1/2 years of sobriety, it is the exact opposite. We have zero power over it. Zero. I know you don't have to agree, but from someone who's lived it... thought I'd chime in.

[conversationpc]

Joe, sorry, I beg to differ. Coming from a place of 17 1/2 years of sobriety, it is the exact opposite. We have zero power over it. Zero. I know you don't have to agree, but from someone who's lived it... thought I'd chime in.

If you have zero power over it, then how have you had 17-1/2 years of sobriety? You either did it through willpower OR God gave you victory over it.

[Playitloudforme]

Joe, sorry, I beg to differ. Coming from a place of 17 1/2 years of sobriety, it is the exact opposite. We have zero power over it. Zero. I know you don't have to agree, but from someone who's lived it... thought I'd chime in.

If you have zero power over it, then how have you had 17-1/2 years of sobriety? You either did it through willpower OR God gave you victory over it.

bingo. God did (higher power, whatever you want to refer to it as)... a power greater than myself. My best concepts had me dying. And the ism is still alive & well... add booze, and I'm right back where I left off 18 years ago, and that was razor in hand, ready to kiss this earthy goodbye.

[Playitloudforme]

It's a disease people.

Cancer is a disease. ALS is a disease. Alcoholism, like other addictions, is due to a lack of will and weakness. Sure, there are some pre-existing conditions that make certain people more susceptible to lapses, but you can't go out and "get" alcoholism. Nor can you just wake up with it one day. I don't give a shit what you say, it's not a "disease."

Sigh... it is a disease. It's genetic. My grandfather had it, my uncle had it (both died from it), my father had it, my brother has it, my nephew has it. Proven by the medical community as a disease. I've already informed both my boys that they have the genetic disposition to become alcoholics. Cunning, baffling, powerful, and oh so patient. Disease.

Stolen with love from wikipedia: The term "disease" refers to a disorder of structure or function. The term can refer to a physical disorder, such as diabetes, or to a mental disorder, such as schizophrenia. Diseases can be short-lived, such as the common cold, or life-long, as in sickle cell anemia.

In the case of alcoholism, research has demonstrated both genetic and environmental contributors to the development of a condition that carries significant physical morbidity. Such factors as a typical course and well-described epidemiology (the incidence and prevalence of the condition) also contribute to the establishment of a disease entity."