Oh for crying out LOUD...!

[journeypower]

ahhh, sounds like BGTY to me too, down to the Perryisms. But what do you expect, Jon says they want to go back to their legacy sound. I guess that includes their lead singer, too

Yeh, Jeff wasn't deliberately invoking any of those Perry inflections whatsoever.
It is what it is.

Noble, this is an extreme though. It's laced throughout the entire song and practically the entire song is a rehash of BGTY. All well and good if they want to perform it live, but how DARE THEY TRY AND SELL ME A SONG THEY ALREADY MADE AND CALL IT NEW???

one solution: DONT BUY IT ! nobody's holding you at gunpoint !

[STORY_TELLER]

This is the Legacy sound, rehashing Be Good..... What a joke, Band is washed up, Im not buying shit from these relics

I'd take your comments seriously if I didn't believe you had that thought long before you even gave Arnel or the new material a fair listen.

Here's my problem:

I am giving them a fair listen and I'm severely disappointed. Maybe it's the hype? I don't know. I know I have high standards for music and I came to expect a certain quality from the band called "Journey". I find that quality in all the albums from Infinity to Trial by Fire. After I heard Arnel on some songs off the Chile concert, I was cautiously optimistic, especially with Caveman hyping their recording sessions as "it's the 80's again" and how he was focussing the group. Arnel has an extremely sophisticated vibrato. A great instrument and he knows what to do with it, but its pretty clear he's not the artist Perry was.

I think I was expecting more "remember me" material with a much stronger vocalist. Even maybe some of the magic that was Frontiers (dare to dream).

Then I hear a complete rehash of BGTY. I mean you can practically slip in BGTY lyrics into this song. It's that close.

It's one thing to revisit your own material and build upon what you've done, but it's quite another to rip yourself off and then sell it to your fans as "new music".

I mean seriously, are the guys just creative toast? Hugo has created original music that sounds like Journey without ripping off their songs. Maybe they should hire him as a song writer.

Like I said, I'll give the studio recordings a fair listen. But so far, I'm really disappointed and it could be the nail in my Journey fandom coffin. I'm that let down by this.

[brywool]

This is the Legacy sound, rehashing Be Good..... What a joke, Band is washed up, Im not buying shit from these relics

come on Steve- This incarnation of the band could've recorded Stairway to Heaven, Hey Jude, or the entire Escape album and I think you'd still say this stuff, right?

[STORY_TELLER]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

There's a big difference between inspiration and knock off. This song is a knock off. You can slip BGTY lyrics into these chord changes and barely notice a difference.

[Arkansas]

... how DARE THEY TRY AND SELL ME A SONG THEY ALREADY MADE AND CALL IT NEW???

Didn't they do this with 'Self Defense' on Generations?


later~

[fightingilliniJRNY]

This is the Legacy sound, rehashing Be Good..... What a joke, Band is washed up, Im not buying shit from these relics

come on Steve- This incarnation of the band could've recorded Stairway to Heaven, Hey Jude, or the entire Escape album and I think you'd still say this stuff, right?

Yep, that's right.

[annie89509]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

With the exception of the Sam Cooke song, I have heard all the songs mentioned above. To my admittedly unprofessional ears, they are not the same. A borrowed chord riff here and there does not make it a rip off. The song that we are discussing here, however, has BGTY all over it.

[slucero]

TI know I have high standards for music and I came to expect a certain quality from the band called "Journey".

LMAO... as if THE BAND doesn't???

The only people who have any say in what the band WAS, IS or WILL BECOME... is... ready..... here it is... THE BAND....

Like or leave it.... you choose what to buy....

I look at it this way.. for every naysayer, negative opinion.. there are going to be 10 positives.... maybe not here in the States... but all over the world....

[brywool]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

There's a big difference between inspiration and knock off. This song is a knock off. You can slip BGTY lyrics into these chord changes and barely notice a difference.

ST- Message of Love is a COMPLETE rip of Separate Ways right down to the drum breaks. Listen to "Wildest Dreams" sounds totally different than any Journey tune., that might make ya happy. By the way "Be Good To Yourself" though one of my favorite Journey tunes... that chord progression is one of their least original.

[ttango1]

Like I said, I'll give the studio recordings a fair listen.

Let that be your guide. 1 song alone should not define your decision. IMHO if you let just 1 song do it, you're selling both yourself and the group short.

7000 people were likin' it lots. and like I said, I knew it sounded BGTY.

[STORY_TELLER]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

With the exception of the Sam Cooke song, I have heard all the songs mentioned above. To my admittedly unprofessional ears, they are not the same. A borrowed chord riff here and there does not make it a rip off. The song that we are discussing here, however, has BGTY all over it.

In addition-
Brywool, sorry dude. I respect you, but you're really reaching here. No one would mistake Easy to Fall for Sweet and Simple. Sweet and Simple is a very bluesy song. Easy to Fall is almost elevator music (by comparison). Lovin' Touchin'? Show me another song that could be mistaken for that.

About the only song I agree with that was a "close inspiration" was Message of Love to Separate Ways. I always thought it was Separate Ways 'light'.

That's the really big difference here. At a casual listen, it's possible to mistake this new song for BGTY.

It's one thing to be a fan and defend the band you love, but it's quite another to be a fan of "blind faith". I'm not blind. I love this band, but I call bullshit when I hear it from anyone, and this is just bullshit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's one thing to be a fan and defend the band you love, but it's quite another to be a fan of "blind faith". I'm not blind. I love this band, but I call bullshit when I hear it from anyone, and this is just bullshit.

I don't think it's nearly as much of a BGTY facsimile as ur making it out to be. The chorus, in particular, sounds very little like BGTY.
The BGTY similarities are minute, and are only an obstruction to fans who want them to be. Listen again. There is a great new Journey song buried in here and none to deeply.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

... how DARE THEY TRY AND SELL ME A SONG THEY ALREADY MADE AND CALL IT NEW???

Didn't they do this with 'Self Defense' on Generations?


later~

that was not a rehash--it was a re-release. never tried to push it off as a new song. (# 2 best on Generations. imho)

[STORY_TELLER]

I know I have high standards for music and I came to expect a certain quality from the band called "Journey".

LMAO... as if THE BAND doesn't???

The only people who have any say in what the band WAS, IS or WILL BECOME... is... ready..... here it is... THE BAND....

Like or leave it.... you choose what to buy....

I look at it this way.. for every naysayer, negative opinion.. there are going to be 10 positives.... maybe not here in the States... but all over the world....

Apparently they don't if this is what they're producing. Perry was the one who "bled a little over every song" to the point that the band criticized him for it.

I think they have the right vocalist to tour the GH's and do them justice (finally), but I think they lose their legitimacy as a band when they 100% rehash what they did before. Very ironic when Caveman says "I'm not interested in a nostalgia act".

If you're fine with that, then hey, more power to you. I have higher standards. If the rest of the album is more of this kind of material, I will in fact leave it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

that was not a rehash--it was a re-release. never tried to push it off as a new song. (# 2 best on Generations. imho)

Most of the time I skip over ISD. It really adds nothing - just an unecessary cover.
The best songs on Generations are FITH, TPIYH, BL, NTL, BYTC.

[slucero]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

With the exception of the Sam Cooke song, I have heard all the songs mentioned above. To my admittedly unprofessional ears, they are not the same. A borrowed chord riff here and there does not make it a rip off. The song that we are discussing here, however, has BGTY all over it.

In addition-
Brywool, sorry dude. I respect you, but you're really reaching here. No one would mistake Easy to Fall for Sweet and Simple. Sweet and Simple is a very bluesy song. Easy to Fall is almost elevator music (by comparison). Lovin' Touchin'? Show me another song that could be mistaken for that.

About the only song I agree with that was a "close inspiration" was Message of Love to Separate Ways. I always thought it was Separate Ways 'light'.

That's the really big difference here. At a casual listen, it's possible to mistake this new song for BGTY.

It's one thing to be a fan and defend the band you love, but it's quite another to be a fan of "blind faith". I'm not blind. I love this band, but I call bullshit when I hear it from anyone, and this is just bullshit.

Then stop listening to them... get on with your life... does it not strike you as "odd" that the "message" of Journey's music.... uplifting and positive is not exemplified in the negative posts?

Those of us who like it ... like it...

Those of use who don't... don't....

but thats the only "choice" we have... unless you have a direct pipeline to Jon or Neal.... and can convince them to your opinion...

[STORY_TELLER]

that was not a rehash--it was a re-release. never tried to push it off as a new song. (# 2 best on Generations. imho)

Most of the time I skip over ISD. It really adds nothing - just an unecessary cover.
The best songs on Generations are FITH, TPIYH, BL, NTL, BYTC.

Place in your Heart could have been a really, really great song. Had a great intense build elsewhere, great (original) guitar riffs, then turned wishy washy at the chorus. Felt like two different songs all of a sudden.


...I'm just really disappointed...

[slucero]

I have higher standards. If the rest of the album is more of this kind of material, I will in fact leave it.

Actually NO.. you just have YOUR standards... not higher or lower.. just YOURS...

[annie89509]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

With the exception of the Sam Cooke song, I have heard all the songs mentioned above. To my admittedly unprofessional ears, they are not the same. A borrowed chord riff here and there does not make it a rip off. The song that we are discussing here, however, has BGTY all over it.

In addition-
Brywool, sorry dude. I respect you, but you're really reaching here. No one would mistake Easy to Fall for Sweet and Simple. Sweet and Simple is a very bluesy song. Easy to Fall is almost elevator music (by comparison). Lovin' Touchin'? Show me another song that could be mistaken for that.

About the only song I agree with that was a "close inspiration" was Message of Love to Separate Ways. I always thought it was Separate Ways 'light'.

That's the really big difference here. At a casual listen, it's possible to mistake this new song for BGTY.

It's one thing to be a fan and defend the band you love, but it's quite another to be a fan of "blind faith". I'm not blind. I love this band, but I call bullshit when I hear it from anyone, and this is just bullshit.

Then stop listening to them... get on with your life... does it not strike you as "odd" that the "message" of Journey's music.... uplifting and positive is not exemplified in the negative posts?

Those of us who like it ... like it...

Those of use who don't... don't....

but thats the only "choice" we have... unless you have a direct pipeline to Jon or Neal.... and can convince them to your opinion...

So we're not allowed to voice our opinions. Sorry, I thought this was MR, not BT.

[STORY_TELLER]

Then stop listening to them... get on with your life... does it not strike you as "odd" that the "message" of Journey's music.... uplifting and positive is not exemplified in the negative posts?

Those of us who like it ... like it...

Those of use who don't... don't....

but thats the only "choice" we have... unless you have a direct pipeline to Jon or Neal.... and can convince them to your opinion...

Wow. Umm.. slucero. Isn't this a Journey forum where we, the fans, discuss that band and what we've heard? That's what I'm doing. And you're coming back at me with a lot of hostility. Why is that? Does something I've said threaten you in some manner?

[texafana]

...I'm just really disappointed...

fine..you made your point...jeesh already!

Be Good was never that big of a song anyway, if they want to re-tool it into something else, so what.

[STORY_TELLER]

I have higher standards. If the rest of the album is more of this kind of material, I will in fact leave it.

Actually NO.. you just have YOUR standards... not higher or lower.. just YOURS...

Well, lets examine that:

If you say something is good, and I say something is not good enough. Who has the higher standard?

[journeypower]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

They do have short memories especially if they dont like the singer !

[pinkvelvet]

Arnel couldve breathed out fire and flew around the stage in his magic cape, this people would still find something to whine about. Nothing is ever enough. Unless he suddenly became white

[STORY_TELLER]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

They do have short memories especially if they dont like the singer !

I do like the singer. It's the song I take issue with. And that comment can be flipped very easily. I think a lot of people here are defending the song because Arnel is singing it. I see the two issues as being separate. If Perry sang this song I'd have the same criticism.

[slucero]

I have higher standards. If the rest of the album is more of this kind of material, I will in fact leave it.

Actually NO.. you just have YOUR standards... not higher or lower.. just YOURS...

Well, lets examine that:

If you say something is good, and I say something is not good enough. Who has the higher standard?

Neither... its just opinion. Not one vs the other... just opinion.

"One mans garbage is another mans treasure"

[The_Noble_Cause]

but I think they lose their legitimacy as a band when they 100% rehash what they did before. Very ironic when Caveman says "I'm not interested in a nostalgia act".

Now u have me thinking u are either: prone to hyperbole, hating asians, or simply aren't all that familiar with Journey's catalogue.
In any case, you'd be well advised to take an appointment with ur family audiologist under serious advisement.

If anything, this song has moments, (just a few sparse moments), which sounds like a hybrid of the best parts from "Never Too Late" and "Believe in Me".
Big deal.

[treetopovskaya]

sounds good to me. }:C)

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

Arnel couldve breathed out fire and flew around the stage in his magic cape, this people would still find something to whine about. Nothing is ever enough. Unless he suddenly became white

oh stop it. completely irrelevant.

[slucero]

Like "Message of Love" wasn't a complete rip off of "Separate Ways"?
Like "Easy to Fall" wasn't a complete rip off of "Sweet and Simple"?
Like Soto's "Believe in Me" (recorded with Schon) Wasn't a complete rip off of "Be Good To Yourself"?
Like "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" wasn't a complete rip off of about a million blues songs, not to mention the first lines being directly
ripped from Sam Cooke.

People sure have short memories.

With the exception of the Sam Cooke song, I have heard all the songs mentioned above. To my admittedly unprofessional ears, they are not the same. A borrowed chord riff here and there does not make it a rip off. The song that we are discussing here, however, has BGTY all over it.

In addition-
Brywool, sorry dude. I respect you, but you're really reaching here. No one would mistake Easy to Fall for Sweet and Simple. Sweet and Simple is a very bluesy song. Easy to Fall is almost elevator music (by comparison). Lovin' Touchin'? Show me another song that could be mistaken for that.

About the only song I agree with that was a "close inspiration" was Message of Love to Separate Ways. I always thought it was Separate Ways 'light'.

That's the really big difference here. At a casual listen, it's possible to mistake this new song for BGTY.

It's one thing to be a fan and defend the band you love, but it's quite another to be a fan of "blind faith". I'm not blind. I love this band, but I call bullshit when I hear it from anyone, and this is just bullshit.

Then stop listening to them... get on with your life... does it not strike you as "odd" that the "message" of Journey's music.... uplifting and positive is not exemplified in the negative posts?

Those of us who like it ... like it...

Those of use who don't... don't....

but thats the only "choice" we have... unless you have a direct pipeline to Jon or Neal.... and can convince them to your opinion...

So we're not allowed to voice our opinions. Sorry, I thought this was MR, not BT.

well... BT is gone... but you can post there all ya want.... if ya can find it....

Opinions are great... negative ones and positive.... but at some point in time ya gotta realize that negative opinions are only useful to illustrate ones personal dissatisfaction. They really only matter if it will lead to change.... so negative opinions that will never be acted upon are sorta wasted energy IMHO...

And then the question is obvious... if all you have is negative opinions - could ya spend yer energy on something more positive? Studies have shown it takes much more energy to be "negative" than it does to be positive...