Wildest Dreams and Never Walk Away

[E5C4P3 4 U]

I was absolutely joking about the Springstein thing. He definately deserves to be on the radio. I just, and I've said this before, wish I could experience Journey being on mainstreem radio and being on top of the Rock world. They need to get on the radio again in order to come close to this IMO. I wish it was 1984, but I'm more than happy with the 2008 Journey.

[Matthew]

Just found out from the "Hey Asshole" thread from Jeremy himself that he has co-writing credit on Never Walk Away. IMO its a great tune. Jeremy how did you influence this song.

I could tell you but sadly I think I'd be pounced on and branded a liar for my version. We just wrote the song together (Neal, Jonathan and myself) while I was there.

Hey Jeremey - good work. More evidence - if evidence was needed - that you need to release a CD of new music. Have you been in touch with that Swedish guy recently?

[STORY_TELLER]

That's probably the right way to go. These songs will sound much better on the professionally recorded DVD, and on CD... and who knows, maybe these aren't "final" versions of the songs?

If they're in the mixing stage, it's probably a safe bet these performances are of the final versions. Especially if the Vegas show was being taped for the DVD.

[STORY_TELLER]

I wish it was 1984, but I'm more than happy with the 2008 Journey.

Why do you say that? I'm curious.

I'm not a Springsteen fan and I understand why he'd command new material on the radio. I agree, it's what Journey (or any band) needs to rise to or return to prominence. However, it's a VERY rare thing for a band who's slipped from the public eye to come back and regain a fraction of what they were before, let alone command the sales and concert crowds of their heyday. Duran Duran managed it briefly when they reunited with their original band members. Even had a huge radio hit, but you don't see that of the new album they made after they broke up again. It's just not realistic.

My (realistic) prediction is the band will tour to the same crowds they have while Augeri was fronting them, although Pineda's countrymen may boost that number somewhat. They'll sell a similar number of albums to Arrival (in the states). Could be more via iTunes overseas from world wide Arnel supporters. That's the real darkhorse question mark. There seems to be an enormous swell of Asian nationalist pride surrounding Arnel's inclusion in the band and that could translate to album sales. Time will tell though.

[Jeremey]

Just found out from the "Hey Asshole" thread from Jeremy himself that he has co-writing credit on Never Walk Away. IMO its a great tune. Jeremy how did you influence this song.

I could tell you but sadly I think I'd be pounced on and branded a liar for my version. We just wrote the song together (Neal, Jonathan and myself) while I was there.

Hey Jeremey - good work. More evidence - if evidence was needed - that you need to release a CD of new music. Have you been in touch with that Swedish guy recently?

Thanks man.....Been working in my spare time with Juhani and have been in touch with a few other well known names in the melodic rock community, a couple of whom are childhood heros of mine. With work and gigging and baby juggling, I hope to have something together by the end of the year.

[ttango1]

Nevertheless, its a great tune. So what if its a mix between BGTY and Never Too Late As long as it makes it to radio, stays in their set, and keeps the crowd rockin' I have no problem with it. BTW Jeremy, Do you get any royalties since they are using a song you co-wrote? Not trying to start a war here, just want some insight.

I wish it was a cross, but it's not. Change out the lyrics and you have BGTY. The chords, the vocal melodies and harmonies are BGTY through and through. Highly doubt you will ever hear this song and BGTY played live in the same set. It would leave the audience scratching their heads wondering why they're playing the same song twice.

If any of this stuff gets into radio rotation, I'll be shocked. Either way, if it happens at all, this track won't be the one to do it. It will be a ballad. This kind of music doesn't get airplay in today's music world. Melodic rock, unfortunately, just isn't the mainstream anymore. Can't wait to hear studio recordings of the other songs though. Hopefully they're more original along the lines of Remember Me than rehashing ROR or Frontiers hits.

On the bolded part, they played both songs at the Vegas show. The crowd was really into it and my perception was that it is similar to BGTY but that didn't stop me 1 bit from enjoying the song.

[Saint John]

The first ballad had people absolutely stunned. It was beautiful. I can completely see why they saved that one for a voice like Arnel's to sing it. It was a seamless match. I say that song gets radio play.

[STORY_TELLER]

On the bolded part, they played both songs at the Vegas show. The crowd was really into it and my perception was that it is similar to BGTY but that didn't stop me 1 bit from enjoying the song.

Similar is putting it mildly, but what can I say? People are sheep. Especially so when they're high on excitement for reasons other than what's going on in the moment. I think you'd find a very different reaction at the majority of shows elsewhere in the country. Especially shows that aren't being taped for a DVD. You tell people they're on camera, they'll start cheering if you sing the alphabet.

[STORY_TELLER]

The first ballad had people absolutely stunned. It was beautiful. I can completely see why they saved that one for a voice like Arnel's to sing it. It was a seamless match. I say that song gets radio play.

I'll look forward to hearing the studio recording then.

If any song gets radio play, a ballad from Journey will be chosen over a rocker every time. There's a big difference between hearing it on the radio a few times and getting slipped into rotation though. Getting into rotation will make it a hit. Higher Place had "some airplay" here and there and you can see the result. Not the same thing by a long shot.

[ttango1]

Similar is putting it mildly, but what can I say? People are sheep. Especially so when they're high on excitement for reasons other than what's going on in the moment. I think you'd find a very different reaction at the majority of shows elsewhere in the country

I take offense to the sheep comment. It's perception and feel that is at issue here. You say they ripped themselves off and that they didn't stretch.

I SAY THEY WROTE A SONG THAT makes you think of BGTY but stands strong enough on it's own to gain it's own merit. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME A SHEEP OR EWE or anything of that ilk.
Considering that 1/3 of the team that wrote that song frequents the board, I'll give his comments more levity. But I didn't need to read his comments to form my opinion on what sounded great to me despite the similarity.

Don't hate...Appreciate...Appreciate that this band you love to talk about, is giving you an album full of NEW music and even if some of it is made with references to the past, it's that past that started many of us on the road to Journey fandom.

[STORY_TELLER]

Similar is putting it mildly, but what can I say? People are sheep. Especially so when they're high on excitement for reasons other than what's going on in the moment. I think you'd find a very different reaction at the majority of shows elsewhere in the country

I take offense to the sheep comment. It's perception and feel that is at issue here. You say they ripped themselves off and that they didn't stretch.

I SAY THEY WROTE A SONG THAT makes you think of BGTY but stands strong enough on it's own to gain it's own merit. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME A SHEEP OR EWE or anything of that ilk.
Considering that 1/3 of the team that wrote that song frequents the board, I'll give his comments more levity. But I didn't need to read his comments to form my opinion on what sounded great to me despite the similarity.

Don't hate...Appreciate...Appreciate that this band you love to talk about, is giving you an album full of NEW music and even if some of it is made with references to the past, it's that past that started many of us on the road to Journey fandom.

Apologies, I didn't mean you specifically. I should have been more clear. I was referring to the crowd at large when you mentioned that they played both songs and everyone got into it. That was where the sheep comment was directed and it was said without malice in mind. It was an experienced observation. There's no "hate" here. I wasn't flaming you. Bear in mind the written word has no inflection and it's very easy to read malice into a statement where none was implied.

And sorry, but if you go and listen to the comparison clip I posted, it's pretty clear how interchangeable these songs are. The instrumentals are virtually identical. The song structure, only slightly less so. The vocal melodies and harmonies even more so. If another band recorded this same song, there would be grounds for a plagiarism lawsuit and Journey would win. Huey Lewis and the News won their case against Ray Parker for Ghost Busters and that song wasn't as close as this is.

I for one take issue with any band intentionally writing a song to make you think of something they did previously. It diminishes their value as creative artists and diminishes the band (and their legacy) as a whole. My assertion is Neal and Jon don't have to do this. They're better than that and they made a bad choice in doing so.

[ttango1]

And sorry, but if you go and listen to the comparison clip I posted, it's pretty clear how interchangeable these songs are.

Look I know what you're saying. I was talking to Hoagie Pete who bought my extra ticket and I said the same thing, and then went 1 step further and sang "You're walking a tight wire, caught in a crossfire." And yeah it fits. But, I didn't let that deter my listening experience. It's not an out of the ordinary thing for recording artists to do that. If they do it too much then let's let them know but for this song...Again, I'm cool with it and I'm happy I'm one of the first, on a planet of Billions, to hear and see it LIVE.

Oh and apology excepted with a small caveat, I would like to give credit to many Journey fans out there. A great many of us didn't care that they were filming the DVD, we were there to hear the songs that made us want to hear them so much when we first heard them and just as much, wanted to hear what was coming up next. There is none of that, act foolishly because a camera crew is there.

[Saint John]

Jesus H. Christ...trying to minimize or discredit a 12 song album because one song sounds like something they did in the past. I'll concede that point to you. Give the other ELEVEN songs a try.

[STORY_TELLER]

And sorry, but if you go and listen to the comparison clip I posted, it's pretty clear how interchangeable these songs are.

Look I know what you're saying. I was talking to Hoagie Pete who bought my extra ticket and I said the same thing, and then went 1 step further and sang "You're walking a tight wire, caught in a crossfire." And yeah it fits. But, I didn't let that deter my listening experience. It's not an out of the ordinary thing for recording artists to do that. If they do it too much then let's let them know but for this song...Again, I'm cool with it and I'm happy I'm one of the first, on a planet of Billions, to hear and see it LIVE.

And that's exactly my point. You were "high" about being "one of the first, on a planet of Billions, to hear and see it LIVE". It's not something to be ashamed of, but you have to admit that it alters your perceptions and gives you a different emotional attachment to the song than someone who didn't attend the show.

I think you'd have a different opinion if your first exposure to the song came from walking into walmart, buying the album unheard (like most people will) then hearing both the re-recorded greatest hits, and that "new" song on the new album. Maybe not as extreme as mine is, but different for sure.

I'm just being honest. I'm no one's cheerleader. I call it like I see it. I'd have the same reaction if Perry was the singer of this same song. It's a knock off. Pure and simple and it's beneath the talent in this band to do it.

[Eric]

Just found out from the "Hey Asshole" thread from Jeremy himself that he has co-writing credit on Never Walk Away. IMO its a great tune. Jeremy how did you influence this song.

I could tell you but sadly I think I'd be pounced on and branded a liar for my version. We just wrote the song together (Neal, Jonathan and myself) while I was there.

Hey Jeremey - good work. More evidence - if evidence was needed - that you need to release a CD of new music. Have you been in touch with that Swedish guy recently?

Thanks man.....Been working in my spare time with Juhani and have been in touch with a few other well known names in the melodic rock community, a couple of whom are childhood heros of mine. With work and gigging and baby juggling, I hope to have something together by the end of the year.

Are you going to do that in concert now Jeremey? YOU GOT TO!

[STORY_TELLER]

Jesus H. Christ...trying to minimize or discredit a 12 song album because one song sounds like something they did in the past. I'll concede that point to you. Give the other ELEVEN songs a try.

I don't see where I said word one about the other 11 songs, do you? Does anyone? In fact, if you find all my posts on the subject, I clearly state I'm waiting to hear the studio versions of the other songs before drawing a conclusion either way, don't I?

I'll take that apology now mr. "Saint".

[ttango1]

And that's exactly my point. You were "high" about being "one of the first, on a planet of Billions, to hear and see it LIVE". It's not something to be ashamed of, but you have to admit that it alters your perceptions and gives you a different emotional attachment to the song than someone who didn't attend the show.

While it's true that I was HIGH(must have been the extra Cuba Libre's I had), I can tell you that whether first heard on the radio or at a concert, to me...makes no difference. I did say that I could sing this song along with BGTY but again, it doesn't bother me...because it's fricken' Journey and they are rockin' just as hard as always.

[Saint John]

Jesus H. Christ...trying to minimize or discredit a 12 song album because one song sounds like something they did in the past. I'll concede that point to you. Give the other ELEVEN songs a try.

I don't see where I said word one about the other 11 songs, do you? Does anyone? In fact, if you find all my posts on the subject, I clearly state I'm waiting to hear the studio versions of the other songs before drawing a conclusion either way, don't I?

I'll take that apology now mr. "Saint".

I think you misinterpreted my post and/or I wasn't clear enough. You seem to be focusing on one song rather than what the album may bring as a whole. I wasn't trying to insinuate that were discrediting the other 11, just focusing on one you consider to be a "knock off" too dang much. Let me ask you this: have you ever purchased a 12 song album where you liked every song? Doubtful. Skip this song and try the remaining 11. And hey, if you did find a 12 song album where you liked every song, you're one lucky fucker!!!

[youkeepmewaiting]

Just found out from the "Hey Asshole" thread from Jeremy himself that he has co-writing credit on Never Walk Away. IMO its a great tune. Jeremy how did you influence this song.

I could tell you but sadly I think I'd be pounced on and branded a liar for my version. We just wrote the song together (Neal, Jonathan and myself) while I was there.

Hey Jeremey - good work. More evidence - if evidence was needed - that you need to release a CD of new music. Have you been in touch with that Swedish guy recently?

Thanks man.....Been working in my spare time with Juhani and have been in touch with a few other well known names in the melodic rock community, a couple of whom are childhood heros of mine. With work and gigging and baby juggling, I hope to have something together by the end of the year.

Not sure if you know of him, but Gary Hughes from Ten wrote some amazing stuff on Hugos first album. A mix of your voice and his song wre writing would definitly be worth buying.

[STORY_TELLER]

Jesus H. Christ...trying to minimize or discredit a 12 song album because one song sounds like something they did in the past. I'll concede that point to you. Give the other ELEVEN songs a try.

I don't see where I said word one about the other 11 songs, do you? Does anyone? In fact, if you find all my posts on the subject, I clearly state I'm waiting to hear the studio versions of the other songs before drawing a conclusion either way, don't I?

I'll take that apology now mr. "Saint".

I think you misinterpreted my post and/or I wasn't clear enough. You seem to be focusing on one song rather than what the album may bring as a whole. I wasn't trying to insinuate that were discrediting the other 11, just focusing on one you consider to be a "knock off" too dang much. Let me ask you this: have you ever purchased a 12 song album where you liked every song? Doubtful. Skip this song and try the remaining 11. And hey, if you did find a 12 song album where you liked every song, you're one lucky fucker!!!

Well... (and I'm saying this with a smile on my face), I didn't interpret your post wrong at all. If you re-read your own words, you specially said I'm "trying to minimize or discredit a 12 song album because one song sounds like something they did in the past."

So yes, you were insinuating that I was discrediting the other 11 songs by focusing on this one song, which I'm not trying to do and that's what I reacted to. If this is your way of retracting it, apology accepted.

As to your question:
have you ever purchased a 12 song album where you liked every song?

Apples and oranges. It's an unrelated question to the topic at hand. This is about the recreation of a song Journey already made. Show me any album from any band that has two songs that are as identical (on the same album) and then your question will come closer to applying.

Now, to answer the unrelated portion of your question:
No, I haven't found an album where I liked every song. I think that's a rare occurrence for anyone, and yes, they're one lucky fucker if they did.

I think I'm about the most fair and honest minded person on this board. I have no agenda either way. I'm assessing what I hear moment by moment.

I'm not sure what I'm more surprised about:
The fact that the band recreated BGTY so closely or the fact that so many (on this board) are giving it a wash. Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

[Saint John]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

[STORY_TELLER]

And that's exactly my point. You were "high" about being "one of the first, on a planet of Billions, to hear and see it LIVE". It's not something to be ashamed of, but you have to admit that it alters your perceptions and gives you a different emotional attachment to the song than someone who didn't attend the show.

While it's true that I was HIGH(must have been the extra Cuba Libre's I had), I can tell you that whether first heard on the radio or at a concert, to me...makes no difference. I did say that I could sing this song along with BGTY but again, it doesn't bother me...because it's fricken' Journey and they are rockin' just as hard as always.

Well, I submit that you can't truly know that unless you first experienced it in the walmart scenario I described... but I digress.

Either way, recreations of this magnitude usually don't get the reaction you had out of most people. It's part of why they ask for "new" music from an artist. New implies original, not a revisit of a song they already did, which is what this is. If I want to hear BGTY, I'll go listen to the original. I want NEW Journey material on par with what they're capable of. That's my standard and I see no reason to accept less from such a talented group of musicians.

[STORY_TELLER]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

Well... (and again, with a smile on my face), my point is I think the reason you feel that way is because you lack objectivity on this subject. That's why I posed the other band scenario, etc. etc.

[Saint John]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

Well... (and again, with a smile on my face), my point is I think the reason you feel that way is because you lack objectivity on this subject. That's why I posed the other band scenario, etc. etc.

Fair enough. I'll compare the two when I have the new album in hand.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

Me neither. I still cannot hear Be Good To Yourself in that song.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

Me neither. I still cannot hear Be Good To Yourself in that song.

I can hear similarites.. actually to me it sounds more like a aosng from Generations (but i cant remember which one), but its certainly not a bad thing.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

Me neither. I still cannot hear Be Good To Yourself in that song.

I can hear similarites.. actually to me it sounds more like a aosng from Generations (but i cant remember which one), but its certainly not a bad thing.

You're right - it's not a bad thing for new Journey music to have a hint of old Journey music in it. They have sold 75 million records for a reason. People want to be able to buy a record by an artist and at least have SOME idea of what it might sound like.

[Matthew]

If I want to hear BGTY, I'll go listen to the original. I want NEW Journey material on par with what they're capable of. That's my standard and I see no reason to accept less from such a talented group of musicians.

But Storyteller...Journey have been sub-standard for 22 years...and some might argue that they've been falling short since Frontiers. And yet here you are...a quarter of a century later...still talking about the band most days of the week...still saying that you are not accepting in drop in standards. Time to let it go perhaps?

Yes, that new song is a bit like BGTY. But all of Journey's material since TBF has more or less sounded like the formula Journey established a long time ago. And isn't it true that if Journey sounded radically different people - including maybe you too - would be complaining that they 'didn't sound like Journey enough'.

The fact is...nothing the band does now can ever reach the heights they used to achieve. To expect them to be still capable of this is ridiculous.
And even if they wrote their greatest ever song tomorrow...the vocals would be sub-standard compared to the past, wouldn't they?

[cyndy!]

Let me ask you a question now. If another band which you weren't such a huge fan of did the same thing, would you be giving them as much a pass or would you call them on it?

Tough for me to answer that considering I don't think the songs are as similar as everyone else does.

Me neither. I still cannot hear Be Good To Yourself in that song.

i hear it loud & clear

[ProgRocker53]

If I want to hear BGTY, I'll go listen to the original. I want NEW Journey material on par with what they're capable of. That's my standard and I see no reason to accept less from such a talented group of musicians.

Yes, that new song is a bit like BGTY. But all of Journey's material since TBF has more or less sounded like the formula Journey established a long time ago.
The fact is...nothing the band does now can ever reach the heights they used to achieve. To expect them to be still capable of this is ridiculous.
And even if they wrote their greatest ever song tomorrow...the vocals would be sub-standard compared to the past, wouldn't they?

Yes, all of Journey's material since TBF has been very formulaic. State of Grace, Walking Away from The edge, Live and Breathe, Livin' To Do, Kiss Me Softly, Beyond the Clouds, Faith in the Heartland, Out of Harms Way.... what a bunch of status quo drivel.