Here's a thought: ALL Vegas Reviews are Irrelavent!

[Carlitto H@kk]

Man, so many wars going back & forth over the reviews/clips of this show.
Some loved it, saw tons of "energy" and "excitement".
Most everyone was estatic to see/hear some new music.
Some folks weren't overly impressed...

Maybe ALL the reviews for this show should just be discarded.
Why?
Hmmmm...

For those of you that raved about the energy on stage, Neal runnin' around,
Jon looking happy, Arnel interacting with the crowd...
Think it had anything to do with the fact that the cameras
were rolling for an upcoming DVD release?
They played 3 new tunes and some deep-cut faves like M/F,
After the Fall and EOTB... Again, think it had anything to do
with the cameras being there to film a DVD that will be sold w/ the NEW MUSIC?

Here's a thought: The band showed that kind of "energy & excitement"
EVERY NIGHT they hit the stage w/Soto last year and cameras weren't rolling.
Here's hoping that they can keep that energy & excitement up throughout
this upcoming tour. THAT will be the real indicator of how well this new line-up
is getting along. Plus, let's see how many of these new tunes they are still playing
live half-way thru the tour. Again, another indicator of how well this band is doing.
If history repeats w/ these guys, you'll be lucky to get ONE new song by mid-tour.

On the flip-side, some weren't too impressed with Arnel.
Heard complaints of screwing up lyrics, coming in off-cue,
boring stage presence...
Gee, it 's his first performances in front of an American audience.
Think he was pretty nervous? Probably.

Again, let's wait and see how Arnel and the band are interacting
and performing together 15-20 shows from now. Even as a self-proclaimed
Looney Wigglin' Sototarian that isn't ready to join the Arnel Pineda Pinata Army just yet,
I find it hard to really criticize this guy after only 3-4 performances, especially when I, like alot of folks,
have only been able to see/hear him thru crappy Youtube Clips.

So what do you think?
Vegas Reviews, for the most part, Irrelavent???

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

I think all reviews are subjective.

The only review relevant to me will be the one which I come up with after i see them on June 23 in Cardiff.

[ttango1]

Can I ask why it's called the Arnel Pineda Pinata Army?

A Pinata is most definitely not a Filipino thing.

There in the PI, we call them Parole. Which is a star. It's technically a Christmas Lantern...no candy inside.

And it looks like this:

[Carlitto H@kk]

Can I ask why it's called the Arnel Pineda Pinata Army?

A Pinata is most definitely not a Filipino thing.

There in the PI, we call them Parole. Which is a star. It's technically a Christmas Lantern...no candy inside.

And it looks like this:

Hmmm... Let me think...
Oh yea, now I remember.
Perry Diehards are "Loons".
Last year, my quip of Augeri fans being "Wigglers" stuck.
(Long story, had to do with obsessed female fans and Augeri's stage moves)
Also last year, when fans were trying to come up w/ a funny name
for Soto fans, I dubbed myself a "Sototarian".
Thus, since I enjoyed all 3, I am a Looney Wigglin' Sototarian.

So now we have Arnel and his devoted Army of fans showing up here.
SOMEONE needed to come up with a name for them, right?

So, I took it upon myself to use MY OWN fun nickname for them.
Pineda... Pinata... They sound alike and it has a nice ring to it.

If you'd rather me use Arnel Pineda's Parole Army, I will.
But, here in America, Parole isn't a real positive word to use...
Some might think his devoted fans are criminals and thugs

[STORY_TELLER]

Man, so many wars going back & forth over the reviews/clips of this show.
Some loved it, saw tons of "energy" and "excitement".
Most everyone was estatic to see/hear some new music.
Some folks weren't overly impressed...

Maybe ALL the reviews for this show should just be discarded.
Why?
Hmmmm...

For those of you that raved about the energy on stage, Neal runnin' around,
Jon looking happy, Arnel interacting with the crowd...
Think it had anything to do with the fact that the cameras
were rolling for an upcoming DVD release?
They played 3 new tunes and some deep-cut faves like M/F,
After the Fall and EOTB... Again, think it had anything to do
with the cameras being there to film a DVD that will be sold w/ the NEW MUSIC?

Here's a thought: The band showed that kind of "energy & excitement"
EVERY NIGHT they hit the stage w/Soto last year and cameras weren't rolling.
Here's hoping that they can keep that energy & excitement up throughout
this upcoming tour. THAT will be the real indicator of how well this new line-up
is getting along. Plus, let's see how many of these new tunes they are still playing
live half-way thru the tour. Again, another indicator of how well this band is doing.
If history repeats w/ these guys, you'll be lucky to get ONE new song by mid-tour.

On the flip-side, some weren't too impressed with Arnel.
Heard complaints of screwing up lyrics, coming in off-cue,
boring stage presence...
Gee, it 's his first performances in front of an American audience.
Think he was pretty nervous? Probably.

Again, let's wait and see how Arnel and the band are interacting
and performing together 15-20 shows from now. Even as a self-proclaimed
Looney Wigglin' Sototarian that isn't ready to join the Arnel Pineda Pinata Army just yet,
I find it hard to really criticize this guy after only 3-4 performances, especially when I, like alot of folks,
have only been able to see/hear him thru crappy Youtube Clips.

So what do you think?
Vegas Reviews, for the most part, Irrelavent???

Give this man a round of applause. Finally a truly objective point of view. You and I appear to be in the same camp sir. Wait and see attitude. It's too early either way. Jury is and should still be out this. I eagerly wait for iTunes samplers of the studio recordings of the new songs. I've only drawn one (truly fair and honest) conclusion about one song and I don't think I need to repeat it here.

[Lady Luck]

Also last year, when fans were trying to come up w/ a funny name
for Soto fans, I dubbed myself a "Sototarian"

Someone came up with "Soto Pops" too...don't remember who it was though.

[Rockindeano]

Carl, the people coming in and slamming Pineda are obviously haters, and for one of them to say, "Your review was spot on" when he wasn't there is ridiculous. How can you say a review is spot on when you yourself haven't been there to compare it to? The people who went to the show, all agreed it was grand. Every person here who went, loved it. The only dissenters are from folks who bitch daily, complain, and tear down, and oh yea, they weren't within 2500 miles of Vegas. Their reviews or comments don't count. You don't go, you can't bitch. Don't be swayed by their comments about not being able to express an opinion. Their opinions are already cast in stone and are never going to change. They are committed to a road of hatred and they can't turn back. Fuck em. Say, have you seen Andrew comment on the show? No, you haven't. Why? Because he wasn't there and he won't comment on something he hasn't seen.

As for Pineda flubbing lyrics, Augeri did many times in the Vegas 2001 DVD, and I have even see Perry do it too. Who cares?

[Rockindeano]

Also last year, when fans were trying to come up w/ a funny name
for Soto fans, I dubbed myself a "Sototarian"

Someone came up with "Soto Pops" too...don't remember who it was though.

Oh yes you do!

[STORY_TELLER]

Can I ask why it's called the Arnel Pineda Pinata Army?

A Pinata is most definitely not a Filipino thing.

There in the PI, we call them Parole. Which is a star. It's technically a Christmas Lantern...no candy inside.

ttango, I think you're splitting a hair, but I'll take a stab at what I believe Carlitto means:

You're probably not going to like this, but I say the following with no ill will or malice or anger or hate. It's just an objective observation. Ready?

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

[Lady Luck]

Also last year, when fans were trying to come up w/ a funny name
for Soto fans, I dubbed myself a "Sototarian"

Someone came up with "Soto Pops" too...don't remember who it was though.

Oh yes you do!

LOL, NOW I remember.

[STORY_TELLER]

Carl, the people coming in and slamming Pineda are obviously haters, and for one of them to say, "Your review was spot on" when he wasn't there is ridiculous. How can you say a review is spot on when you yourself haven't been there to compare it to? The people who went to the show, all agreed it was grand. Every person here who went, loved it. The only dissenters are from folks who bitch daily, complain, and tear down, and oh yea, they weren't within 2500 miles of Vegas. Their reviews or comments don't count. You don't go, you can't bitch. Don't be swayed by their comments about not being able to express an opinion. Their opinions are already cast in stone and are never going to change. They are committed to a road of hatred and they can't turn back. Fuck em. Say, have you seen Andrew comment on the show? No, you haven't. Why? Because he wasn't there and he won't comment on something he hasn't seen.

As for Pineda flubbing lyrics, Augeri did many times in the Vegas 2001 DVD, and I have even see Perry do it too. Who cares?

Well, honestly Deano, there's an opposite side to that. Those who are commenting are doing so based on you tube clips, granted. But you and I both know that the energy of a live show creates an emotional connection to the events which usually allows someone to gloss over legitimate issues. They become cheerleaders and lose objectivity whereas those of us on the outside, if we're being honest, take a middle of the road approach and have a more clear perspective of what we saw.

All you guys had a great time at the show and that's awesome. I'm not taking that away from anyone. Arnel clearly has a great voice and is a great choice to front this band, on the GH's. But you have to admit, you are stoned on your emotional connection to the event as a whole and as a result have a biased point of view that others don't share. That doesn't make others "haters". I'm not referring to those who have an agenda (eg. DCvader). I'm talking about those, like me, who are not in cheerleading mode.

[StoneCold]

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of filipino fans that wouldn't have gone with the other frontmen. In the bands eyes, that's not a bad thing. New buyers for the tickets that some say they will no longer be buying. Dollars and sense.

[RossValoryRocks]

I vote for Pinedians...

Oh Pineda...you sing Journey songs for me...
Ohhhh Pineda you sing songs for me!!!! ~To the tune of Oh Canada.

[STORY_TELLER]

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of filipino fans that wouldn't have gone with the other frontmen. In the bands eyes, that's not a bad thing. New buyers for the tickets that some say they will no longer be buying. Dollars and sense.

I wouldn't call that a disagreement at all. I'd call that a separate issue entirely. Of course it's a win for the band. A HUGE win in fact. Great marketing possibilities, especially outside the USA, but that's not what was being discussed.

This is about fan opinions and what is influencing them. If it's about the music and the performances of that music, then it's honest and legitimate. If it's influenced by the reasons I outlined, and those people run around disparaging nay-sayers who are critical of the music, it's not.

[Clasicrockldy]

I vote for Pinedians...

Oh Pineda...you sing Journey songs for me...
Ohhhh Pineda you sing songs for me!!!! ~To the tune of Oh Canada.

"Arnelians" was tossed about earlier, when Arnel was being considered lead singer.

Dean, there is a difference between not liking something and hating. I just happen not to like the line up now. There is no hate involved here. Arnel does have a set of pipes, that is for sure. I just don't like the lineup, and will not monetarily support it.

[brywool]

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of filipino fans that wouldn't have gone with the other frontmen. In the bands eyes, that's not a bad thing. New buyers for the tickets that some say they will no longer be buying. Dollars and sense.

I have seen people cheering him with national pride on YouTube, but not here (did I miss some posts?). I have seen blatant racisim directed at him here and watched people try and deny it (ridiculous). I've seen Perry/Augeri/Sotto/Hunsiker/Bert/Ernie/Peter/Quagmire/Keith Partridge/Snoopy/Hugo supporters here slam him just because he's not "their" guy. It's like they refuse to listen to the new guy based on some kind of loyalty. Well, that's their loss.

I'm cheerleading for the guy based on his TALENT alone. I know nothing about him personally, however, like another person here, it's very cool to watch his enthusiasm and awe of the whole thing. I'm a huge Augeri and Perry freak. When tapegate went down, I was one of those that didn't believe it and stood up for him when everyone else wasn't. Well, I was wrong. Having said that, when I watch an early show from Augeri (say the Virginia Beach show) and I watch Arnel's Chile show- I KNOW who the better live vocalist is. That doesn't mean I can't still dig what the other has to offer as well.

This whole 'us and them' thing is just tired.

[StoneCold]

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of filipino fans that wouldn't have gone with the other frontmen. In the bands eyes, that's not a bad thing. New buyers for the tickets that some say they will no longer be buying. Dollars and sense.

I wouldn't call that a disagreement at all. I'd call that a separate issue entirely. Of course it's a win for the band. A HUGE win in fact. Great marketing possibilities, especially outside the USA, but that's not what was being discussed.

This is about fan opinions and what is influencing them. If it's about the music and the performances of that music, then it's honest and legitimate. If it's influenced by the reasons I outlined, and those people run around disparaging nay-sayers who are critical of the music, it's not.

Fan opinions that lean towards negative don't matter to Journey, especially now. In the world of message boards, ok you have a point but it adds up to what? As long as the tickets get bought, they don't care.

[T-TIME]

I have seen several clips and yes I had noticed some mistakes and some miscues. Most importantly I was there and I know how I felt and that concert was fucking sweet. That is what a concert is suppose to do. THAT IS WHY A CONCERT IS LIVE WITH A AUDIENCE. So we can feel it. Studio -Live. Studio - Live.
I have seen Prince many times in concert and noticed a few flaws in his shows and he is considered one of the greatest live performers ever. How many times does Springsteen pull away from the mike too early on songs? I Suppose he's boring and unpolished? If your looking for something you'll find it. Arnel did a fine job. With Steve A. you either liked him or not. With JSS you either liked him or not. With Arnel it was clear. You was either rooting for him or not but make no mistake. He was good.

[pinkvelvet]

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of filipino fans that wouldn't have gone with the other frontmen. In the bands eyes, that's not a bad thing. New buyers for the tickets that some say they will no longer be buying. Dollars and sense.

I have seen people cheering him with national pride on YouTube, but not here (did I miss some posts?). I have seen blatant racisim directed at him here and watched people try and deny it (ridiculous). I've seen Perry/Augeri/Sotto/Hunsiker/Bert/Ernie/Peter/Quagmire/Keith Partridge/Snoopy/Hugo supporters here slam him just because he's not "their" guy. It's like they refuse to listen to the new guy based on some kind of loyalty. Well, that's their loss.

I'm cheerleading for the guy based on his TALENT alone. I know nothing about him personally, however, like another person here, it's very cool to watch his enthusiasm and awe of the whole thing. I'm a huge Augeri and Perry freak. When tapegate went down, I was one of those that didn't believe it and stood up for him when everyone else wasn't. Well, I was wrong. Having said that, when I watch an early show from Augeri (say the Virginia Beach show) and I watch Arnel's Chile show- I KNOW who the better live vocalist is. That doesn't mean I can't still dig what the other has to offer as well.

This whole 'us and them' thing is just tired.

and isnt that the only thing that matters?

[annie89509]

[quote="STORY_TELLER
Well, honestly Deano, there's an opposite side to that. Those who are commenting are doing so based on you tube clips, granted. But you and I both know that the energy of a live show creates an emotional connection to the events which usually allows someone to gloss over legitimate issues. They become cheerleaders and lose objectivity whereas those of us on the outside, if we're being honest, take a middle of the road approach and have a more clear perspective of what we saw.

All you guys had a great time at the show and that's awesome. I'm not taking that away from anyone. Arnel clearly has a great voice and is a great choice to front this band, on the GH's. But you have to admit, you are stoned on your emotional connection to the event as a whole and as a result have a biased point of view that others don't share. That doesn't make others "haters". I'm not referring to those who have an agenda (eg. DCvader). I'm talking about those, like me, who are not in cheerleading mode.[/quote]

StoryT makes a lot of sense. How many times have we heard over the years about these Journey junkets were the hardcores party, get drunk, go to the concerts, party some more. Everybody is stoned and high with excitement that they're not even paying attention to how the band is playing half of the time. They know all the songs and sing and scream right over the singer and musicians. How can that be an objective review?

Remember the TG internet wars? People were battling with Deano every single day, sworing left and right that they were right there and didn't hear any tapes (lead vocals) being used.

Sometimes you just have to step back from the excitement of the live setting and assess the quality of the music in a different environment, that's all.

[Rockindeano]

I vote for Pinedians...

Oh Pineda...you sing Journey songs for me...
Ohhhh Pineda you sing songs for me!!!! ~To the tune of Oh Canada.

"Arnelians" was tossed about earlier, when Arnel was being considered lead singer.

Dean, there is a difference between not liking something and hating. I just happen not to like the line up now. There is no hate involved here. Arnel does have a set of pipes, that is for sure. I just don't like the lineup, and will not monetarily support it.

Fine. You have said that here repeatedly. How many more times are you going to tell us, through no uncertain terms, you don't like this lineup? We get it. Basically, there is absolutely NO reason for you to even be here. Give me one good reason why you should be here. What point can you honestly make that will be seen as contributive?

[ProgRocker53]

I vote for Pinedians...

Oh Pineda...you sing Journey songs for me...
Ohhhh Pineda you sing songs for me!!!! ~To the tune of Oh Canada.

"Arnelians" was tossed about earlier, when Arnel was being considered lead singer.

Dean, there is a difference between not liking something and hating. I just happen not to like the line up now. There is no hate involved here. Arnel does have a set of pipes, that is for sure. I just don't like the lineup, and will not monetarily support it.

Fine. You have said that here repeatedly. How many more times are you going to tell us, through no uncertain terms, you don't like this lineup? We get it. Basically, there is absolutely NO reason for you to even be here. Give me one good reason why you should be here. What point can you honestly make that will be seen as contributive?

"It's a Journey forum and I like the classic Journey lineup."

[WIX]

ya, so when i SAW JSS in vegas in 2006 I thought he kicked ass and I gave him great reviews while others I was with said he did nothing for them.

I saw arnel, he was awesome in vegas and I stand by that, he will be hit and miss like any musician, he is human.

I saw augeri and some shows were good, some were struggles vocally towards the end, the def leppard tour was too many dates too close etc.


so maybe all reviews beyond 1986 Raised On Radio should be thrown out. Because if not everyone can agree then that voids anyone's opinion apparently.

What makes 1986 and prior reviews grandfathered is the fact nobody can remember that far back.

oh, but I think I remember someone saying that Perry's voice was raspier on that tour so that made that tour shit too, but somebody else then said they liked it??


what to do?

got it, how about any opinion regarding Journey is irrevelant.

Gawd that was easy...........

[Carlitto H@kk]

Carl, the people coming in and slamming Pineda are obviously haters, and for one of them to say, "Your review was spot on" when he wasn't there is ridiculous. How can you say a review is spot on when you yourself haven't been there to compare it to? The people who went to the show, all agreed it was grand. Every person here who went, loved it. The only dissenters are from folks who bitch daily, complain, and tear down, and oh yea, they weren't within 2500 miles of Vegas. Their reviews or comments don't count. You don't go, you can't bitch. Don't be swayed by their comments about not being able to express an opinion. Their opinions are already cast in stone and are never going to change. They are committed to a road of hatred and they can't turn back. Fuck em. Say, have you seen Andrew comment on the show? No, you haven't. Why? Because he wasn't there and he won't comment on something he hasn't seen.

As for Pineda flubbing lyrics, Augeri did many times in the Vegas 2001 DVD, and I have even see Perry do it too. Who cares?

I hear ya, Dean. That was part of my point.
But it goes both ways. I've said it before,
I want to see this line-up do well.
I think Arnel just might be a winner.

But getting crazy over one show, whether you thought it
was the greatest concert ever, just Ok or downright horrible,
and then passing FINAL JUDGEMENT on this band is absurd.
ESPECIALLY since this show was being filmed for the DVD.

I REALLY hope to hear these kind of glowing reviews
15-20 shows into the tour. If so, I'll probably catch one me-self.
But what do you think I'm gonna do if the reviews aren't so pretty
by then or I hear that they aren't playing ANYTHING post-1983???

[RockitRide]

[quote="
So what do you think?
Vegas Reviews, for the most part, Irrelavent???[/quote]

Since just about everybody who posts on MR regarding Journey seems to have an "agenda" of some kind, to me the most subjective "review" of the show was the overall crowd reaction. I have viewed a number of the crappy quality YouTube videos and I noticed two things:

1. From what I could tell the crowd was really digging Arnel.
2. The new song "Wildest Dreams" appeared to get a great response, which really surprised me. The last three times I saw Journey with SA the crowd sat out the new songs. This song in particular sounded like classic Journey (I could be wrong because the recordings are so poor) and the crowd seemed to not miss a beat. People appeared to be standing and clapping to this song just as they did to the classic stuff.

I have no allegance to any of the Journey lead singers as I feel they all have done a great job, although I must admit SA was not as sharp the last time I saw them in Hartford. At this point I am completely surprised at how well the new guy is doing after only a few shows. The Chile show sounded good, but I think the Vegas shows already saw the guy getting more comfortable and opening up his voice. When compared to the Houston video the new Journey live show appears to be the most energetic and the most rocking of any version I have seen (I only saw JSS on YouTube, but I know the guy is a rocker). I saw a solo Perry live in Springfield and as expected he was simply fantastic, but a bit sedate, which didn't matter to me at all. I guess Journey has evolved from "smooth rock" to a more amped beast.

At any rate I will know more when I see them live. I suspect the new CD is going to be excellent though. I think anyone hoping for AP to crash and burn is going to be disappointed. In a high quality US studio he is going to sound fantastic because he has a great voice for this music to start with. I doubt there will be many empty seats at the upcoming Journey shows this year...

[Carlitto H@kk]

Since just about everybody who posts on MR regarding Journey seems to have an "agenda" of some kind, to me the most subjective "review" of the show was the overall crowd reaction. I have viewed a number of the crappy quality YouTube videos and I noticed two things:

1. From what I could tell the crowd was really digging Arnel.
2. The new song "Wildest Dreams" appeared to get a great response, which really surprised me. The last three times I saw Journey with SA the crowd sat out the new songs. This song in particular sounded like classic Journey (I could be wrong because the recordings are so poor) and the crowd seemed to not miss a beat. People appeared to be standing and clapping to this song just as they did to the classic stuff.

1. Sure crowds were digging it. It's Vegas, the band was amp'ed up
and the cameras were rolling. Not to mention that, from what I've been told by a few
lucky folks that were there, there was a HUGE Fillipino contingent in attendance.

2. Hell yea they were excited. First crowd to hear a new song.
Arnel had a lot of fans there and, again, the cameras were rolling.

I just hope they are firing on all cylinders like this later this summer.
Definitely looking forward to the new album, although the one new song
still kills me since it is BGTY cut-up, sliced-up & flipped upside-down

[odessa]

There are a number of Arnel supporters who appear to be cheerleading Journey for reasons other than the band's history or its music both past and present. The reasons appear to be nationalistic pride. That's all well and good, but when anyone jumps around defending Arnel for criticism over his performance, singing or other legitimate questions raised about his creative works as an individual for nationalistic (or tribalistic) reasons, it makes that defense illegitimate because the defense comes from a biased point of view, not an objective one.

How many fans were at that show waving filipino flags? Would all those same filipino fans have travelled to see Journey had JSS, Augeri or even Steve Perry been the frontman? I think these are legitimate questions to ask, so don't jump down my throat okay? Calm headed debate without flaming.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of filipino fans that wouldn't have gone with the other frontmen. In the bands eyes, that's not a bad thing. New buyers for the tickets that some say they will no longer be buying. Dollars and sense.

I have seen people cheering him with national pride on YouTube, but not here (did I miss some posts?). I have seen blatant racisim directed at him here and watched people try and deny it (ridiculous). I've seen Perry/Augeri/Sotto/Hunsiker/Bert/Ernie/Peter/Quagmire/Keith Partridge/Snoopy/Hugo supporters here slam him just because he's not "their" guy. It's like they refuse to listen to the new guy based on some kind of loyalty. Well, that's their loss.

I'm cheerleading for the guy based on his TALENT alone. I know nothing about him personally, however, like another person here, it's very cool to watch his enthusiasm and awe of the whole thing. ...

I agree 100% with every word of this...well said!

[RockitRide]

[quote="

As for Pineda flubbing lyrics, Augeri did many times in the Vegas 2001 DVD, and I have even see Perry do it too. Who cares?[/quote]

I agree. No one cares if the singer messes up a line or two or three at a show like this. The first time I saw SA, in additoin to flubbing words, he almost dropped his mic on a girl's head. SA just laughed off his goofs and the show was great. As I said in my previous post, the audiences in Chile and Vegas all seemed to be having a hell of time.

[Rockindeano]

1. From what I could tell the crowd was really digging Arnel.
2. The new song "Wildest Dreams" appeared to get a great response, which really surprised me. The last three times I saw Journey with SA the crowd sat out the new songs. This song in particular sounded like classic Journey (I could be wrong because the recordings are so poor) and the crowd seemed to not miss a beat. People appeared to be standing and clapping to this song just as they did to the classic stuff.

You make a good point but let me add this. This was in Vegas. Vegas crowds aren't really "loyal Journey fans" and are a bit stagnant. Sure there were Journey fans there, but take the Vegas show, and compare it to a San Francisco show in 5 months, and the loyalty will be 40 times stronger in the Bay than it was in LV.

And you are 100% correct. That PH crowd was on fire. I would say the band set the tempo.

I was at the 2001 show and loved it. However, this one was far better.

[Rockindeano]

I agree. No one cares if the singer messes up a line or two or three at a show like this. The first time I saw SA, in additoin to flubbing words, he almost dropped his mic on a girl's head. SA just laughed off his goofs and the show was great. As I said in my previous post, the audiences in Chile and Vegas all seemed to be having a hell of time.

I saw Bruce doing Born to Run, and he forgot the fuckin words. What does he do? Laughs and starts the song over.

Better yet, his Live in Barcelona DVD, he totally fucks up Spirit in the Night, and the crowd loves it. He tries three separate times and finally gets it right. It shows humility and he showed he is not superhuman. But Bruce and Journey are different. Journey has that seriousness about them, where if Neal fucks up a guitar note on BGTY, they can't get away with that like Bruce can singing about 10th Avenue freeze Out's.