RED 13: Like it or Hate it?

[Ehwmatt]

My standards are actually kind of high, and yeah alot of Journey hardcores are surprised when I rank Generations as one of my favorites, but I reckon I look for some slightly different things in my music than most other people do.

That said, my top three are the self-titled debut, Escape, and Frontiers.

I think as prog fans you and I are kind of in the same boat and approach Journey's stuff with a much more open mind. Probably why you and I are among the minority posters here who routinely listen to pre-Perry Journey and enjoy it. I don't care who's singing on the track if its good... that's why Out of Harm's Way was a kick ass track from Gens for me... the music was great and had a good proggy feel. On the flip side, Gone Crazy sucked because it sucked, Ross's voice had something to do with it no doubt, but a shitty track in its own right, no matter which band it belonged to (including ZZ Top, who its compared to). So I feel ya there. The thing that killed Generations for me overall was not the songs, I still listen to most of the ones you ranked as good or above, it was the bathroom production. Oh well, to each his own. I like having my open mind.

[Deb]

Better Life is perhaps the most boring and redundant song I've ever heard. It just never takes off. It's 6 minutes of the same shit over and over. It should have been titled Groundhog Day.

Go put on TBF and sache about in your knickers to Easy To Fall, will ya?

Hey now! That is easily one of their best ballads.

[Saint John]

Better Life is perhaps the most boring and redundant song I've ever heard. It just never takes off. It's 6 minutes of the same shit over and over. It should have been titled Groundhog Day.

Go put on TBF and sache about in your knickers to Easy To Fall, will ya?

Hey now! That is easily one of their best ballads.

Don't tell 13 that. He perms his hair, wiggles around his living room in a red leather thong, and belts out "All The Way."

[Red13JoePa]

Better Life is perhaps the most boring and redundant song I've ever heard. It just never takes off. It's 6 minutes of the same shit over and over. It should have been titled Groundhog Day.

Go put on TBF and sache about in your knickers to Easy To Fall, will ya?

Hey now! That is easily one of their best ballads.

Don't tell 13 that. He perms his hair, wiggles around his living room in a red leather thong, and belts out "All The Way."

And remember, I do all that going "I'd fuck me. I'd Fuck me....sssssssllllllllllllllllllllllllllll ...I'd fuck me..." between lines.

[Deb]

[Saint John]

Oh man.

[Since 78]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

[Soto All The Way]

SOG is terrific, I Can Breathe is good.
WAFTE is overrated, the Kiss Me Softly of Red13 and The Time is for my coin the greatest piece of guitar rock Schon has committed to record in the Journey cannon.
Aggressive but structured, menacing, DIRTY guitars with many a hidden layer brought out upon multiple listenings. Vocally both SOG and The Time stand out more than anything Augeri had done to that point.

A note on the production complaints: My biggest one is that Castronovo's drums sound like they were recorded on a mini london jazz kit.
Lacked the monster thumping sound he had on Arrival and Generations.

I'm wit' ya bro...I'm not afraid...Red 13 is GREAT!!!!! I like em' all along with SA...

e-

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

Better Life is perhaps the most boring and redundant song I've ever heard. It just never takes off. It's 6 minutes of the same shit over and over. It should have been titled Groundhog Day.

Go put on TBF and sache about in your knickers to Easy To Fall, will ya?

Now thats a good song! First fucking one in this thread! But not as good as Forever in Blue - as good as anything Journey have done. PS Red 13 and Generations lacked one killer element. Good songs!

[Red13JoePa]

Red 13 and Generations lacked one killer element. Good songs!

This post lacks one killer element: Knowing what you're talking about.

[conversationpc]

Red 13 and Generations lacked one killer element. Good songs!

This post lacks one killer element: Knowing what you're talking about.

[STORY_TELLER]

Red 13 and Generations lacked one killer element. Good songs!

This post lacks one killer element: Knowing what you're talking about.

Easy JoePa, easy... "Good songs" was just a typo. He meant to say: "A good lead singer!"

[NealIsGod]

Red 13 and Generations lacked one killer element. Good songs!

This post lacks one killer element: Knowing what you're talking about.

He's still got it.

[Liam]

I always liked it except for "The Time".

I'm right there with ya on that one, bro. It's a boring and dragging song, IMO. No hooks to speak of. The rest of the EP I like...but they could've made "The Time" a MUCH better song.

[ProgRocker53]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

The long intro you speak of is actually the highlight of the disc to me!

[Matthew]

I can barely remember anything about this record except that it sounded a bit amateurish. In fact, someone once described it as sounding like a "demo for an unsigned AOR band from Scandinavia"....

Maybe I need to listen to it again...

[Since 78]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

The long intro you speak of is actually the highlight of the disc to me!

I actually like it myself, my problem with it is that people that Ive played it for that are not hard core fans get kinda ho hum before the song starts.

[ProgRocker53]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

The long intro you speak of is actually the highlight of the disc to me!

I actually like it myself, my problem with it is that people that Ive played it for that are not hard core fans get kinda ho hum before the song starts.

Weird, it has the opposite effect for me. I've snared a few buddies into the Journey web with that song alone! One of them thought it was Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails or something at first.

Speaking of SoG, I was with one of my buddies a few weeks ago. He needed a lift to McDonald's, so we got ourselves some McChickens and sat in the parking lot, pigging out and listening to tunes. He was all like, "Hey man, play me some of your epic progadelic shit," and I just hit "shuffle" and flicked through a few songs, and we started listening to SoG.... He was bugging out, his eyes going all twitchy during the intro, with the all the drums going crazy and the spacey keys/guitar threading through it all... and he finally said "Dude, play me some normal music, like human beings listen to..." The way he said it, as Deen was going nuts in the background, was just really funny....

[Matthew]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

The long intro you speak of is actually the highlight of the disc to me!

Is that the bit where Journey try to sound "drum and bass" with the electronic percussion?

[ProgRocker53]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

The long intro you speak of is actually the highlight of the disc to me!

Is that the bit where Journey try to sound "drum and bass" with the electronic percussion?

Yeah. Bloody fantastic, ain't it?

[conversationpc]

Except for the long intro to state of grace, great disc.

The long intro you speak of is actually the highlight of the disc to me!

Is that the bit where Journey try to sound "drum and bass" with the electronic percussion?

Yeah. Bloody fantastic, ain't it?

I hate that part. Worst part, in my opinion.

[STORY_TELLER]

Apart from Perry, here's what Red 13 (and Journey in general) really needs:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LeJpIryb9I4

I'm referring the man: Steve (machine gun) Smith. Listen to the jam (starts about 3:14). Pay extra attention to the drums. Sick I tell you. Inventive in ways Deen simply isn't (when he has to originate on new songs). The whole song grooves.

[jrnyman28]

LOVE RED13, still listen to it more than anything else now. I remember the production really tough to listen to when I first got it but now I don't notice at all. My complaint is that it is not long enough!! Would love the band to continue that style of music and thought Steve shined on it! I Can Breathe is my least favorite only because it is closest to "traditional" Journey but really this EP had 4 completely different styles of songs...something for everyone!

[lights1961]

LOVE RED13, still listen to it more than anything else now. I remember the production really tough to listen to when I first got it but now I don't notice at all. My complaint is that it is not long enough!! Would love the band to continue that style of music and thought Steve shined on it! I Can Breathe is my least favorite only because it is closest to "traditional" Journey but really this EP had 4 completely different styles of songs...something for everyone!

IF YOU EVER HEARD STATE OF GRACE and THE TIME LIVE... as we did in 2002 for the under the radar tour... those songs were fantastic live!!! To those of us who like the bold
way to start of a concert that was it...however, the majority of the crowd hated that song---by 5 minutes into it---most of the audience was sitting down already.
But to those of us who were digging it.. STATE OF GRACE was best Augeri rocker.

Rick

[jrnyman28]

You take the name Journey away from Red 13, and you release it - nobody would recognize this band, tell me that's a good album.

Maybe that is exactly what I like about it!

[jrnyman28]

SOG is terrific, I Can Breathe is good.
WAFTE is overrated, the Kiss Me Softly of Red13 and The Time is for my coin the greatest piece of guitar rock Schon has committed to record in the Journey cannon.
Aggressive but structured, menacing, DIRTY guitars with many a hidden layer brought out upon multiple listenings. Vocally both SOG and The Time stand out more than anything Augeri had done to that point.

A note on the production complaints: My biggest one is that Castronovo's drums sound like they were recorded on a mini london jazz kit.
Lacked the monster thumping sound he had on Arrival and Generations.

Ya know Red, it is so funny how opposite so many people you are. Everyone else is dogging The Time and you think it is the best. Most love WAFTE and you think it is overrated. You think the drums on Generations sound good when even Neal commented they did not turn out BIG like they wanted.

[jrnyman28]

Better Life is perhaps the most boring and redundant song I've ever heard. It just never takes off. It's 6 minutes of the same shit over and over. It should have been titled Groundhog Day.

Agreed! Starts off fine but never does anything. No build up, no climax. Remember why they used to compare rock and roll to sex! In fact, that lack of "going somewhere" is the downfall to several songs on Generations. (But as much as you hate the CD SJ, I still enjoy it! )

[The_Noble_Cause]

The less than welcome reception seen here is most likely what led Neal to start shelving his hooks for side projects.
The one time the band tried to evolve their sound (while satisfying fans with two Arrival leftovers), and still they got crucified.

I think "The Time" is about as close to a modern-sounding Journey as we are apt to hear.
Not alot of 80's synth bullshit, but the hook is there - if you listen for it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think all the songs are good.
SOG is the weakest by far.

Middle Eastern chords?
Jon saying the words "State of Grace" and looping it backwards?
Andy Kaufman-esque bongo solo at the end?

Was there any point to this stylistic madness?

[Greg]

I really respect Journey for putting out Red 13. It was about time that Journey decided to be creative and do something different. If a younger sounding Perry had sang on this album, it probably would've been considered a cult classic for Journey fans. State of Grace and Walking away from the Edge are definitely the high spots on the EP.