OT: "Speak English" NOT Discriminitory

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OT: "Speak English" NOT Discriminitory

Postby T-Bone » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:44 pm

Now we're getting somewhere..... :wink: :twisted:

Ruling: "Speak English" sign at cheesesteak shop not discriminatory

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A city agency yesterday dismissed a discrimination complaint against Geno's Steaks for its speak-English sign, halting a case that thrust shop owner Joey Vento into the national spotlight of the contentious immigration debate.
A split three-member panel of the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations ruled that a sign in the South Philadelphia cheesesteak shop did not convey a message that service would be refused to non-English speakers.

"The bottom line is that I didn't do anything wrong," said Vento, 68, who maintained that the sign was a political statement and that no customers were ever turned away. "It's a good victory."

Had the commission ruled against Geno's, it could have imposed fines and have moved to revoke Vento's business license.

The case, filed 21 months ago, consumed hundreds of hours of legal time and was the subject of a seven-hour hearing in December. It attracted national attention to Vento and his sign: "This is America. When ordering, please speak English."

The millionaire businessman said the commission's action was an attempt to infringe on his freedom of speech - he refused to remove the sign, and put a second one on the bumper of his orange Hummer. Some commentators and Web sites portrayed Vento as the heroic victim of an overreaching government's attempt to impose political correctness.

Indeed, while branding the commission's action "ridiculous," Vento said he was grateful for the publicity.

"They made me famous throughout the world," Vento said in an interview from his home in New Jersey. "I'm way ahead of the game. I became a hero. I've got to thank them for that."

Shannon L. Goessling, executive director of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, a public-interest law firm in Atlanta that championed Vento's case, complained that the government spent a "tremendous amount of energy" to "silence" Vento and said that he would consider filing suit to recover the cost of his defense.

"If that's what it takes to send a message to government, then that's what it takes," she said.

The Rev. James S. Allen Sr., the commission chairman who filed the original complaint in June 2006, said he still contends that the sign was discriminatory, "but I accept the opinion of the panel." He said the full commission was unlikely to appeal the three-member panel's decision.

Allen said the panel's ruling "is an example of the fairness of the Commission on Human Relations. . . . Just because we bring a case, it does not necessarily mean it will come out in our favor."

The commission's ruling surprised Vento's attorneys, who had complained that the commission, in judging a case brought by its own chairman, was effectively acting as prosecutor, judge and jury.

"I'm kind of impressed with the decision to buck the trend," said Albert G. Weiss, Vento's lawyer in Philadelphia. "It restores my confidence in them a little bit."

Commissioners Roxanne E. Covington and Burt Siegel wrote the majority opinion.

Joseph J. Centeno, a lawyer who chaired the panel, dissented and said the commission had met its burden to prove discrimination, citing testimony from several witnesses at the December hearing that they felt intimidated and unwelcomed by the sign's message.

One witness, University of Pennsylvania sociology professor Camille Z. Charles, likened the "speak English" signs to "whites only" signs from the Jim Crow era.

But Vento's sign also struck a chord among Americans apprehensive over the influx of immigrants, and he was flooded with supportive messages from across the country. "Right now, outside of the war, this is a very hot topic," he said.

Yesterday, Vento took phone calls from like-minded talk-show radio hosts who wanted him to make appearances, and from Lou Barletta, the Hazleton, Pa., mayor who wants to crack down on illegal immigration and is running for Congress.

"I woke up America, so to speak," said Vento
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Postby Angiekay » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:46 pm



I was so happy to hear this!!! Score one for America!!









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Postby youkeepmewaiting » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:53 pm

Indeed, well done yanks. Let's hope Brits take suit.
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Postby jrnychick » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:07 am

Great news! I honestly don't see what the big deal is. If nobody in the guy's shop speaks another language besides English, wouldn't people pretty much HAVE to speak English when they order? There is no law on the books that states businesses must have people who speak other languages working for them. If I owned any sort of retail business, I would require my employees to speak English in the presence of customers. It drives me crazy when I go to a store and have two clerks speaking to each other in a different language while one of them is helping me.

A year or so ago, I saw a very strange thing happen at a local Wal Mart. I was in line behind this woman who was trying to use a credit card that didn't match the name on her driver's license. The cashier was clearly from India, but spoke excellent English. The customer was Polish, and did not speak any English. So she didn't understand what the cashier was saying. The cashier calls for any Polish-speaking employee to come to the register. Then the customer said "Espanol?" Yes, she spoke Spanish. The cashier from India did not speak Spanish. He then called for either a Polish- or Spanish-speaking employee. An employee from Mexico came over, spoke to the Polish customer in Spanish, then translated into English so the Indian cashier knew what was going on.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:17 am

Good for Vento.

Sometimes I actually like Geno's cheesesteaks better than Pat's.
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Postby strangegrey » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:42 am

Too bad this type of attitude cant prevail over at the Journey website... :roll:
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Postby youkeepmewaiting » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:50 am

I remember on another popular melodic rock website (not as good as this obvisouly :) ) , the owner stopped allowing users to post CD reviews in foreign languages, caused a bit of an uproar
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Postby Sarah » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:55 am

strangegrey wrote:Too bad this type of attitude cant prevail over at the Journey website... :roll:

Well, it's not really America over there... :wink:
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Postby conversationpc » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:57 am

Sarah wrote:
strangegrey wrote:Too bad this type of attitude cant prevail over at the Journey website... :roll:

Well, it's not really America over there... :wink:


Correct...More like The Twilight Zone.
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Postby JH'sTXfan » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:58 am

Sarah wrote:
strangegrey wrote:Too bad this type of attitude cant prevail over at the Journey website... :roll:

Well, it's not really America over there... :wink:


Nice av Sarah. I guess Neal got over your Perry red blouse. :lol:
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Postby T-Bone » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:59 am

youkeepmewaiting wrote:I remember on another popular melodic rock website (not as good as this obvisouly :) ) , the owner stopped allowing users to post CD reviews in foreign languages, caused a bit of an uproar


It wouldn't happen to be HeavyHarmonies would it? If it is, we did that over there to unify the reviews section so that people would frequent it more and contribute more. The way it was, it was getting overrun with Spanish and regular contributors quit submitting CD's and reviewing them as well. The only exception to the rule is that a CD that's sung in a foreign language may be reviewed in that language
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Postby Sarah » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:20 am

JH'sTXfan wrote:
Sarah wrote:
strangegrey wrote:Too bad this type of attitude cant prevail over at the Journey website... :roll:

Well, it's not really America over there... :wink:

Nice av Sarah. I guess Neal got over your Perry red blouse. :lol:

Nah, I maintain that I just took him by surprise in that pic. XD
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Postby Moon Beam » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:26 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Good for Vento.

Sometimes I actually like Geno's cheesesteaks better than Pat's.


Your a lucky son of a steak lover for even being able to enjoy them.
Sadly I have never had one from Philly.


I hope more places follow Vento's lead.
Thanks for posting about it T-Bone.
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Postby youkeepmewaiting » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:29 am

T-Bone wrote:
youkeepmewaiting wrote:I remember on another popular melodic rock website (not as good as this obvisouly :) ) , the owner stopped allowing users to post CD reviews in foreign languages, caused a bit of an uproar


It wouldn't happen to be HeavyHarmonies would it? If it is, we did that over there to unify the reviews section so that people would frequent it more and contribute more. The way it was, it was getting overrun with Spanish and regular contributors quit submitting CD's and reviewing them as well. The only exception to the rule is that a CD that's sung in a foreign language may be reviewed in that language


It was indeed. Good site that is. Do you run it?
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Postby T-Bone » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:01 am

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
T-Bone wrote:
youkeepmewaiting wrote:I remember on another popular melodic rock website (not as good as this obvisouly :) ) , the owner stopped allowing users to post CD reviews in foreign languages, caused a bit of an uproar


It wouldn't happen to be HeavyHarmonies would it? If it is, we did that over there to unify the reviews section so that people would frequent it more and contribute more. The way it was, it was getting overrun with Spanish and regular contributors quit submitting CD's and reviewing them as well. The only exception to the rule is that a CD that's sung in a foreign language may be reviewed in that language


It was indeed. Good site that is. Do you run it?



Nope... just a moderator
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:51 am

There are ma and pop hole in the wall cheesesteak stands all over philly, especially south philly that are better and the best one I've ever had is in Ocean City, NJ going by the name Voltaco's.
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Postby squirt1 » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:42 am

We had a case a few yrs back in Butler County which is north of Cincinnati and south of Dayton . It cost the restaurant owner a lot for counsel. He should have written the sign "We are NOT able to speak Spanish here. There is no law YET that a business has to employ people to speak every type of language encountered in their place of business.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:52 pm

squirt1 wrote:We had a case a few yrs back in Butler County which is north of Cincinnati and south of Dayton . It cost the restaurant owner a lot for counsel. He should have written the sign "We are NOT able to speak Spanish here. There is no law YET that a business has to employ people to speak every type of language encountered in their place of business.


That's on the way, within at least two more presidental terms from now. What gets me though is how everyone whines about shit like this. They also whine about being talked to by the airport security. What gets me is I've traveled extensively throughout Asia in my life and I've been treated differently in some of those countries because I was a foreigner and it's never bothered me at all. And when I'm in Japan, everything was in Japanese and if I wanted to communicate at all, I had to do so in Japanese. WTF? Why is America getting clogged up with these fuckers who need America to turn into the country they fled from? Like on May 5th every year, the Mexican's fly their flags on their cars all over the place, yet isn't Mexico the place they ran away from? Shouldn't they be flying the American flag, the flag that represents the country they seeked out for shelter, rights, justice, free government assistance money from the American who are paying taxes, etc? I just don't get that.
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Postby Andrew » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:59 pm

strangegrey wrote:Too bad this type of attitude cant prevail over at the Journey website... :roll:


That is well out of line Frank. I don't want this kind of talk here.
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Postby NealIsGod » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:22 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:There are ma and pop hole in the wall cheesesteak stands all over philly, especially south philly that are better and the best one I've ever had is in Ocean City, NJ going by the name Voltaco's.


I think any cheesesteak you eat after 2:00 a.m. is the best cheesesteak you ever had. :lol:
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:34 pm

NealIsGod wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:There are ma and pop hole in the wall cheesesteak stands all over philly, especially south philly that are better and the best one I've ever had is in Ocean City, NJ going by the name Voltaco's.


I think any cheesesteak you eat after 2:00 a.m. is the best cheesesteak you ever had. :lol:


Said a mouthfu11, there.
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