OT-How Long Have You Been Saved

[conversationpc]

Best era of Genesis hands down is from "Foxtrot" through "And Then There Were Three...". End of argument. Case closed.

[Ren]

Best era of Genesis hands down is from "Foxtrot" through "And Then There Were Three...". End of argument. Case closed.

So you were no fan of "Jesus He Knows Me "?

[conversationpc]

Best era of Genesis hands down is from "Foxtrot" through "And Then There Were Three...". End of argument. Case closed.

So you were no fan of "Jesus He Knows Me "?

Nope...Can't say that I am.

[Voyager]

I believe what I believe, and it is in a God, but I am anti-religion to the core. I adamantly refuse to follow any doctrine.

That is exactly the way I am. All religious books were written by men, with absolutely no proof whatsoever that they were hearing from God. What do you do with the commandments in Deutoronomy to kill gays, non-virgin brides, and adulterers? Do you go to hell for rebellion against God if you don't obey those Biblical commands? Then one day people become a little less barbaric, and they write a new testament that totally refutes the old one - and they say this is the one you should obey instead of the old one. WTF? Did God change his mind and turn over a new leaf? The people who wrote these books were humans... and they said they were speaking for God. What if I said I have a message from God - would you believe it? Then why would you believe the people who wrote all the religious books that are supposedly from God? If they were all from God they would all be saying the same thing... but they are all different.

Religion is whacked!

[gr8dane]

In middle ages Europe,some crafty folks travelled from town to town,dressed up wearing cloaks and were talking the faith .
What they also did was selling some little tokens, that if was bought ,would save them from going to hell.
Now ,we are in the 2008 ,and a lot of folk are still falling for it.

[Rhiannon]

I believe what I believe, and it is in a God, but I am anti-religion to the core. I adamantly refuse to follow any doctrine.

That is exactly the way I am. All religious books were written by men, with absolutely no proof whatsoever that they were hearing from God. What do you do with the commandments in Deutoronomy to kill gays, non-virgin brides, and adulterers? Do you go to hell for rebellion against God if you don't obey those Biblical commands? Then one day people become a little less barbaric, and they write a new testament that totally refutes the old one - and they say this is the one you should obey instead of the old one. WTF? Did God change his mind and turn over a new leaf? The people who wrote these books were humans... and they said they were speaking for God. What if I said I have a message from God - would you believe it? Then why would you believe the people who wrote all the religious books that are supposedly from God? If they were all from God they would all be saying the same thing... but they are all different.

Religion is whacked!

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

[Playitloudforme]

I believe what I believe, and it is in a God, but I am anti-religion to the core. I adamantly refuse to follow any doctrine.

That is exactly the way I am. All religious books were written by men, with absolutely no proof whatsoever that they were hearing from God. What do you do with the commandments in Deutoronomy to kill gays, non-virgin brides, and adulterers? Do you go to hell for rebellion against God if you don't obey those Biblical commands? Then one day people become a little less barbaric, and they write a new testament that totally refutes the old one - and they say this is the one you should obey instead of the old one. WTF? Did God change his mind and turn over a new leaf? The people who wrote these books were humans... and they said they were speaking for God. What if I said I have a message from God - would you believe it? Then why would you believe the people who wrote all the religious books that are supposedly from God? If they were all from God they would all be saying the same thing... but they are all different.

Religion is whacked!

YUP. 100% spiritual, and 0% 'religious'. Several years ago, I went the route of being 'saved', got dunked, the whole bit.

Then, a few months later, this same church told my friend, who has to be the purest of pure women I've EVER met, that she had to be sinning, because she suffered from a psychological condition. They said if she was truly sinless, she wouldn't be affected, so she must have demons (yup they said demons) in her. Uh...no. Buh bye.

The Catholic church I'd gone to lost me when their entire sermon was about money, and how everyone should contribute at minimum $100 to whatever it was they had going on. I couldn't afford it... so guess what, they lost me forever. No way I'll EVER support a bricks & mortar 'religious' doctrine again. All my experiences have been horrendous.

Closest thing that makes sense is buddism, as the concepts are beautiful.... but even there, I won't throw myself into their temples for the same reason why I won't do Fundamentalist or Catholic. God knows I love him, and I live my life like it, not just spew it outta my mouth and act completely contrary. He doesn't need my tithing... he's in heaven, and money isn't an issue there. I'm perfect just as I am, because I am a child of God. Even with all my faults, which are, for learning from and growing to be a better human, not a punishment.

Nuff said.

[conversationpc]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

[conversationpc]

YUP. 100% spiritual, and 0% 'religious'. Several years ago, I went the route of being 'saved', got dunked, the whole bit.

Then, a few months later, this same church told my friend, who has to be the purest of pure women I've EVER met, that she had to be sinning, because she suffered from a psychological condition. They said if she was truly sinless, she wouldn't be affected, so she must have demons (yup they said demons) in her. Uh...no. Buh bye.

That totally goes against the teaching of the New Testament. Have they not read the passage about the blind man whom Jesus healed. The passage says that some were questioning "Who sinned? The man or his parents?". Jesus said that neither sinned but that he was this way so that God's glory could be shown through him by being healed.

[HERO]

YUP. 100% spiritual, and 0% 'religious'. Several years ago, I went the route of being 'saved', got dunked, the whole bit.

Then, a few months later, this same church told my friend, who has to be the purest of pure women I've EVER met, that she had to be sinning, because she suffered from a psychological condition. They said if she was truly sinless, she wouldn't be affected, so she must have demons (yup they said demons) in her. Uh...no. Buh bye.

The Catholic church I'd gone to lost me when their entire sermon was about money, and how everyone should contribute at minimum $100 to whatever it was they had going on. I couldn't afford it... so guess what, they lost me forever. No way I'll EVER support a bricks & mortar 'religious' doctrine again. All my experiences have been horrendous.

Closest thing that makes sense is buddism, as the concepts are beautiful.... but even there, I won't throw myself into their temples for the same reason why I won't do Fundamentalist or Catholic. God knows I love him, and I live my life like it, not just spew it outta my mouth and act completely contrary. He doesn't need my tithing... he's in heaven, and money isn't an issue there. I'm perfect just as I am, because I am a child of God. Even with all my faults, which are, for learning from and growing to be a better human, not a punishment.

Nuff said.

It does stun me that in this "enlightened" age there are still people out there believing in demons. I've met some of these people. The lights are on but nobody is home.

The Catholic church possess riches beyond the imagination of many a poor soul. But do they actually part with any of it whilst asking the congregation to part with their hard earned money? No. How strange, especially when you consider that where they claim we are all going money will be of no use. You can't take it with you. And so many are in need. Maybe they should practice what the preach. Just a thought.

Buddhism is worth looking into, as far as any religion is. May I point you in the direction of St.Issa? You may find that you have already heard of him.

[AlteredDNA]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

This is correct...Constantine set the stage, but was remarkably "hands-off" during the council...

[HERO]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

I would suggest that you check your facts. The selection of the books included in the Bible was far from agreed on by those at the time. The opposing sides were very hostile. We just have the winners version of events, and that doesn't make it true.

[Playitloudforme]

YUP. 100% spiritual, and 0% 'religious'. Several years ago, I went the route of being 'saved', got dunked, the whole bit.

Then, a few months later, this same church told my friend, who has to be the purest of pure women I've EVER met, that she had to be sinning, because she suffered from a psychological condition. They said if she was truly sinless, she wouldn't be affected, so she must have demons (yup they said demons) in her. Uh...no. Buh bye.

That totally goes against the teaching of the New Testament. Have they not read the passage about the blind man whom Jesus healed. The passage says that some were questioning "Who sinned? The man or his parents?". Jesus said that neither sinned but that he was this way so that God's glory could be shown through him by being healed.

Unfortunately, that's not what they had their congregation believing. This is one of the bigger ones in the San Fernando Valley too, with it's own TV show. So sad. I got a lot out of the 'worship' part of it, but no way I'm going to go the route of damning & condemning innocents. It was straight out of the dark ages. Point .... Stephanie fully recovered, with the help of a fantastic therapist, and still goes to 'church'. Just not THAT church....

[Karma]

It does stun me that in this "enlightened" age there are still people out there believing in demons. I've met some of these people. The lights are on but nobody is home.

The Catholic church possess riches beyond the imagination of many a poor soul. But do they actually part with any of it whilst asking the congregation to part with their hard earned money? No. How strange, especially when you consider that where they claim we are all going money will be of no use. You can't take it with you. And so many are in need. Maybe they should practice what the preach. Just a thought.

Buddhism is worth looking into, as far as any religion is. May I point you in the direction of St.Issa? You may find that you have already heard of him.

I must agree on the Buddhism point. St. Issa learned much from the Buddhist faith during his travels throughout India, Nepal, Tibet and that region of Asia.

I have wondered the same about the Catholic church. But remember, they do need the riches when the insurance money runs out on paying the victims of all those priests. The priests the church protected all those years. Pass the plate!

[conversationpc]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

I would suggest that you check your facts. The selection of the books included in the Bible was far from agreed on by those at the time. The opposing sides were very hostile. We just have the winners version of events, and that doesn't make it true.

Wrong...First of all, after refreshing my memory a bit, the books of the New Testament were not decided on at the Council of Nicaea anyway. They were "officially" decided upon around 393 A.D. Regardless, most of the NT books gained acceptance long before this because of widespread use in churches. There is reason to believe that most of the New Testament was in use and widely accepted as authoritative scripture by about 150 A.D.

Anyway, that isn't even really the point of as much contention as, say the deity of Christ.

[HERO]

It does stun me that in this "enlightened" age there are still people out there believing in demons. I've met some of these people. The lights are on but nobody is home.

The Catholic church possess riches beyond the imagination of many a poor soul. But do they actually part with any of it whilst asking the congregation to part with their hard earned money? No. How strange, especially when you consider that where they claim we are all going money will be of no use. You can't take it with you. And so many are in need. Maybe they should practice what the preach. Just a thought.

Buddhism is worth looking into, as far as any religion is. May I point you in the direction of St.Issa? You may find that you have already heard of him.

I must agree on the Buddhism point. St. Issa learned much from the Buddhist faith during his travels throughout India, Nepal, Tibet and that region of Asia.

I have wondered the same about the Catholic church. But remember, they do need the riches when the insurance money runs out on paying the victims of all those priests. The priests the church protected all those years. Pass the plate!

I do believe that our Christian chums are in for a shock when they discover St. Issa.

The Catholic church does seem to attract the deviants and perverts. Maybe it is all that dressing up that attracts them.

[HERO]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

I would suggest that you check your facts. The selection of the books included in the Bible was far from agreed on by those at the time. The opposing sides were very hostile. We just have the winners version of events, and that doesn't make it true.

Wrong...First of all, after refreshing my memory a bit, the books of the New Testament were not decided on at the Council of Nicaea anyway. They were "officially" decided upon around 393 A.D. Regardless, most of the NT books gained acceptance long before this because of widespread use in churches. There is reason to believe that most of the New Testament was in use and widely accepted as authoritative scripture by about 150 A.D.

Anyway, that isn't even really the point of as much contention as, say the deity of Christ.

I do believe that you are forgetting the Gnostics, rivals of the Catholics. The Catholics have done their best to expunge them from history, apparently quite successfully. Where is the Gospel of Matthias, the Gospel of Philip, or the Acts of Peter in the NT? Edited tomes are always prone to being twisted by propoganda. Give me the full facts or nothing at all.

[Ren]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

I would suggest that you check your facts. The selection of the books included in the Bible was far from agreed on by those at the time. The opposing sides were very hostile. We just have the winners version of events, and that doesn't make it true.

Wrong...First of all, after refreshing my memory a bit, the books of the New Testament were not decided on at the Council of Nicaea anyway. They were "officially" decided upon around 393 A.D. Regardless, most of the NT books gained acceptance long before this because of widespread use in churches. There is reason to believe that most of the New Testament was in use and widely accepted as authoritative scripture by about 150 A.D.

Anyway, that isn't even really the point of as much contention as, say the deity of Christ.

I do believe that you are forgetting the Gnostics, rivals of the Catholics. The Catholics have done their best to expunge them from history, apparently quite successfully. Where is the Gospel of Matthias, the Gospel of Philip, or the Acts of Peter in the NT? Edited tomes are always prone to being twisted by propoganda. Give me the full facts or nothing at all.

Not that successfull if you know about them.

[HERO]

I see your point with that, and to people who won't even consider that seriously... I say... what about the apocrypha? The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It's like "God's Greatest Hits"... a bunch of old farts got together in 325 AD in Nicea to decide which scripts best fit the religion they wanted to control their Roman Empire with. The transition from paganism (not devil worship, to the numbskulls, but genuine paganism) to what would become Catholicism. Good job, Constantine.

That isn't what happened at all. The books they decided on were agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of churches represented at the council. There was certainly far less controversy than some liberal theologians nowadays would have you believe.

I would suggest that you check your facts. The selection of the books included in the Bible was far from agreed on by those at the time. The opposing sides were very hostile. We just have the winners version of events, and that doesn't make it true.

Wrong...First of all, after refreshing my memory a bit, the books of the New Testament were not decided on at the Council of Nicaea anyway. They were "officially" decided upon around 393 A.D. Regardless, most of the NT books gained acceptance long before this because of widespread use in churches. There is reason to believe that most of the New Testament was in use and widely accepted as authoritative scripture by about 150 A.D.

Anyway, that isn't even really the point of as much contention as, say the deity of Christ.

I do believe that you are forgetting the Gnostics, rivals of the Catholics. The Catholics have done their best to expunge them from history, apparently quite successfully. Where is the Gospel of Matthias, the Gospel of Philip, or the Acts of Peter in the NT? Edited tomes are always prone to being twisted by propoganda. Give me the full facts or nothing at all.

Not that successfull if you know about them.

Not everyone is easily duped. Others on the other hand...

[conversationpc]

I do believe that you are forgetting the Gnostics, rivals of the Catholics. The Catholics have done their best to expunge them from history, apparently quite successfully. Where is the Gospel of Matthias, the Gospel of Philip, or the Acts of Peter in the NT? Edited tomes are always prone to being twisted by propoganda. Give me the full facts or nothing at all.

I am fully aware of the Gnostics. However, their "Gospels", if they can even be called that, were never in widespread, accepted usage by the vast majority of churches in that area of the world.

[Ren]

I would like to take this moment to ask God to look out for Soto all the Way....

he is in serious need of help and guidance.

[HERO]

I do believe that you are forgetting the Gnostics, rivals of the Catholics. The Catholics have done their best to expunge them from history, apparently quite successfully. Where is the Gospel of Matthias, the Gospel of Philip, or the Acts of Peter in the NT? Edited tomes are always prone to being twisted by propoganda. Give me the full facts or nothing at all.

I am fully aware of the Gnostics. However, their "Gospels", if they can even be called that, were never in widespread, accepted usage by the vast majority of churches in that area of the world.

I believe you, honestly I do.

[conversationpc]

I would like to take this moment to ask God to look out for Soto all the Way....

he is in serious need of help and guidance.

Perhaps we need to do the laying on of hands and exercise the demonic beings?

[Andrew]

I would like to take this moment to ask God to look out for Soto all the Way....

he is in serious need of help and guidance.

No baiting thank you.

[Ren]

I would like to take this moment to ask God to look out for Soto all the Way....

he is in serious need of help and guidance.

No baiting thank you.

Mr. Andrew, perhaps you didn't notice him attack me first? So....I hope you were directing that remark at him.

Thank you sir.

[RSParker]

there is a big difference between Faith and Church.

Jesus didnt come here to establish a "church" he came here to establish a relationship.

All prophets died, Jesus got back up.

Ive been saved a long while, and I am a worship leader, pastor, whatever you want to call it.

I Sin. period.

Had a lot of crazy, really bad **** happen to me. Went on strike from god, the whole nine yards. The problem is. God didnt do a thing to me, I did it myself. I wouldnt let him do anything for me. Gods is not in control, hes in Charge. Big Difference. Which means he gets blamed for every little thing that doesnt go our way. Amazing how when something great happens, We thank ourselves, or luck. When something bad happens, We blame God. I know more now. And still learning...

Not a preaching, just a ramble. God loves each one of you, even if some hate him.

[Ren]

there is a big difference between Faith and Church.

Jesus didnt come here to establish a "church" he came here to establish a relationship.

All prophets died, Jesus got back up.

Ive been saved a long while, and I am a worship leader, pastor, whatever you want to call it.

I Sin. period.

Had a lot of crazy, really bad **** happen to me. Went on strike from god, the whole nine yards. The problem is. God didnt do a thing to me, I did it myself. I wouldnt let him do anything for me. Gods is not in control, hes in Charge. Big Difference. Which means he gets blamed for every little thing that doesnt go our way. Amazing how when something great happens, We thank ourselves, or luck. When something bad happens, We blame God. I know more now. And still learning...

Not a preaching, just a ramble. God loves each one of you, even if some hate him.

Well said. We all sin. Some here can't seem to look in the mirror. It is too easy to blame God. Not enough self accountabillity in this world.

[HERO]

Well said. We all sin. Some here can't seem to look in the mirror. It is too easy to blame God. Not enough self accountabillity in this world.

Let he without sin cast the first stone. You are so right, we all sin. So few have the guts to admit it though. Shifting the blame onto someone or something that doesn't comment is all too easy. We need more self accountability.

[conversationpc]

Jesus didnt come here to establish a "church" he came here to establish a relationship.

Actually, he did but I understand where you are coming from

All prophets died, Jesus got back up.

I like the way you phrased that.

[Ren]

All prophets died, Jesus got back up.

I like the way you phrased that.

Sort of like Rocky Balboa vs. Apollo Creed