OT: Gas prices

[epresley]

But that's why I ride one of these sometimes to cut back on car mileage.



Cept' that mine is Spurs Silver & Black

Too dangerous for my tastes plus they are pretty dorky-looking. Sorry.

Say what you want...but I gotta tell ya...THE CHICKS DIG THE VESPA!!!

Looks more like a vehicle that would attract man-love more than anything, you know, a bromance.

[ProgRocker53]

$3.61 in south-central Ohio.

It's a total bitch when you're down to your last $10, get 17 MPG, don't get your first check at a new job until the end of the week, and have an 18 mile round trip every day.

[strangegrey]

Blaming greedy oil companies on the rising price of gas is simply irresponsible. The profit margins of a few selected industries are as follows:

Periodical Publishing 24.9%
Shipping 18.8%
Application Software 22.5%
Tobacco 19%
Water Utilities 10.2%
Major Integrated Oil and Gas 9.5%
Hospitals 1.4%
Drugstores 2.8%

The water utility industry has higher profit margins than major oil and gas firms! Why isn't every CEO with profit margins above that of the oil companies made to testify before Congress for "price gouging"? Clearly, greedy corporate profits are not the issue.

Again, while just over nine percent of the price of a gallon of gas goes to oil company profits, approximately twenty percent of the price of a gallon of gas is composed of federal, state, and local taxes.

Is this your writing or did you just cut and paste it from a questionable source?

Lets be clear. The percentages you list above are more apropriately termed, in financial speak...ratios.

A ratio means DICK until you also factor in the multiplier. So now lets talk about your 'ratios' with multiplier, so we're all on the same page and not pushing percentages without relevance.

There is not a single software company out there that makes more gross revenues than Microsoft. Total revenues for Microsoft in 2007 was 51 billion.

22.5% of 51 billion = 11.475 billion

Revenues for exxon mobil in 2006 tipped the scales at over 365 Billion!!!!!!!

9% of 365 billion = 32.85 billion



I don't care who you are. I want the company that makes 33 billion, not the one that makes 11.5.



Now that we've dispensed with your first logical error, let's look at the second.

The total revenues of integrated gas companies do NOT factor into the 20% that you are touting for government taxes. Gas tax is factored into gas sold at the pump to the consumer....NOT revenues generated by a corporation. So while you might want to make us think that the government is taking twice the cut that the company itself is taking, the fact remains that total gasoline revenues from consumers is considerably less than total revenues that an integrated gas company makes in total. So the government's take is far less than the picture you're trying to paint. Sorry!

Now to your third logical error

The federal gas tax has not changed since the early days of the clinton adminstraion. Go look it up (but use a reliable source please)...and you'll see. So how does an effectively flat tax with a 0% increase rate explain away the doubling to near trippling of gas prices from 2000-2008!?!?!??!?

[strangegrey]

By the way, a point of correction.

Exxon Mobil's Net-Profit Margin ratio is 10.04 for the Trailing Twelve Months, so their profits would likely shape out to more like 36.5 Billion.

Three times that of Microsucks!

[SteveForever]

$3.61 in south-central Ohio.

It's a total bitch when you're down to your last $10, get 17 MPG, don't get your first check at a new job until the end of the week, and have an 18 mile round trip every day.

you get a job, but you can't even get there-!!! now that sux.

[styxman]

To fill a normal family car over here now costs £55, so that's $110. Stop fuckin' moaning To fill a 4x4 costs nearly $230.

[ttango1]

But that's why I ride one of these sometimes to cut back on car mileage.



Cept' that mine is Spurs Silver & Black

Too dangerous for my tastes plus they are pretty dorky-looking. Sorry.

Say what you want...but I gotta tell ya...THE CHICKS DIG THE VESPA!!!

Looks more like a vehicle that would attract man-love more than anything, you know, a bromance.

Not a bromance but something I'd say...yo Bro...check this out!

[conversationpc]

Update: Gas was 3.40/gallon or so at most local central Indiana gas stations that I passed on the way in this morning. This evening? $3.69

[conversationpc]

Not a bromance but something I'd say...yo Bro...check this out!

OK...The chick is hot. The moped? Still dorky.

[ttango1]

.29 cents ...damn, that's precipitous.

[mikemarrs]

$3.43 regular at exxon here in memphis.

[Babyblue]

3.49 reg here

[Liam]

$3.41 (the cheapest in town) at the Shamrock around the corner from my house. $3.80 at Exxon on the Highway. TODAY.

This is fucking insane.

[pinkfloyd1973]

[ttango1]

Somewhere out there I saw a list that showed the top 5 companies for each sector.
Oil companies kicked every other sector's asses.

[Michigan Girl]

[Sarah]

[Rick]

[RedWingFan]

Classic.

[DSHinMICH]

Anywhere from $3.44-$3.70 here in mid Michigan

[strangegrey]

You want that company to do what? Be yours? To be taxed more? To what?

Listen, the point I was making was that if you want to pick a company that is doing 'better'...

would you take a company that makes a 9% return for 36 billion or a 22% return for 11 billion?



Your argument that the oil companies don't make a great deal of profit is flawed because you are making the universal 'quote percentage' blunder...which is to forget the what the percentage is based on.

Oil companies are experiencing WINDFALL profits right now. It doesn't matter that their net profit margins fall below other industries...other industries are VERY different and are accounted for, differently as well.

The point still remains that record revenues are driving the oil business right now, and the 9% that you claim is such a relatively sad, low rate...returns a much higher net income number that most industries out there.

And you still can't explain away a the fact that a flat tax had ANYTHING to do with the near trippling of gas prices over the past 10 years!!?!?

[strangegrey]

Revenues for exxon mobil in 2006 tipped the scales at over 365 Billion!!!!!!!

9% of 365 billion = 32.85 billion

Great. Where did the OTHER $332 Billion go?

Read the financial statements, genius...it's all there.

But before you hurt yourself, less than 7.5% of revenue actually goes to the government in the form of income taxes.

Sorry. the tree you were barking up just threw you back to the ground.

[RedWingFan]

But before you hurt yourself, less than 7.5% of revenue actually goes to the government in the form of income taxes.

Yeah, 7.5% for doing absolutely ZERO in producing oil. They're pretty good at keeping us from drilling for our own though.

[conversationpc]

Read the financial statements, genius...it's all there.

But before you hurt yourself, less than 7.5% of revenue actually goes to the government in the form of income taxes.

Sorry. the tree you were barking up just threw you back to the ground.

Yeah. Boy, that was a great smackdown. Woohoo. I can barely contain my enthusiasm.

[conversationpc]

Your argument that the oil companies don't make a great deal of profit is flawed because you are making the universal 'quote percentage' blunder...which is to forget the what the percentage is based on.

Oil companies are experiencing WINDFALL profits right now. It doesn't matter that their net profit margins fall below other industries...other industries are VERY different and are accounted for, differently as well.

The point still remains that record revenues are driving the oil business right now, and the 9% that you claim is such a relatively sad, low rate...returns a much higher net income number that most industries out there.

Trippling?

I'm sure he's aware that the total amount of profit is much higher than your example of Microsoft. I'd also venture to say that the big oil company's expenditures for R&D and the entire process of delivering the product from ground to gas tank are higher as a percentage of their total business than Microsoft's would be in comparison.

[Shadowsong]

$4.19 for prem at the corner Chevron

[Shadowsong]

LOL

Yeah...Screwed at the pump!

[conversationpc]

After bumping the prices up by about $0.30 yesterday, the price went down a whole 4 cents overnight. Woo-frickin'-hoo.

[Rhiannon]

After bumping the prices up by about $0.30 yesterday, the price went down a whole 4 cents overnight. Woo-frickin'-hoo.

Prices went up about .07¢ here.

[strangegrey]

I'm sure he's aware that the total amount of profit is much higher than your example of Microsoft. I'd also venture to say that the big oil company's expenditures for R&D and the entire process of delivering the product from ground to gas tank are higher as a percentage of their total business than Microsoft's would be in comparison.

Ehhhh!

Wrong again Dave. R&D expenditures for Exxon Mobil is less than half a percentage of total sales revenue. Same approximate percentages for BP, who account for their business under a different system than american companies but still have similar numbers for R&D. "production from ground to pump" as you put it, is barely higher than 10%. The majority of COGS for integrated oil companies comes from purchases, not production, not R&D, etc. They pay for their product, refine it and sell it. OPEC nations set the wholesale price for pulling oil out of the ground and the integrated oil companies have to pay for the product before processing it....

You (and the other neocons here that don't know what they're talking about) need to read the financial statements and understand the cost structure of these companies before you can come in here and try and sound educated. Right now, it's not working...you're just sounding off on what you *think* things should be instead of doing real research to discover what they actually ARE.


But before you go hurt yourself doing that, recognize that the cost structure of these companies isn't the problem. The cost structure of exxonmobil, bp, valero, or sonoco has not changed significantly in 20-30 years (and if you want to be school there as well, I'll be happy to oblige). Neither have taxes...a point proven (and since FF has been awol since then, he's either hurt himself trying to find a suitable cut/paste to further sink his argument or he's conceded this)

The *problem* here is the external factors that have caused gas prices to almost triple. I blame foreign policy and monetary/fiscal policy of this country. However, there is ZERO denying that the true beneficiary of our government's actions is the oil companies, now enjoying record profits.


When you look at a problem, you can't just look at the cause and blame the cause. You need to look at the person/entity that is enjoying the rewards (and worse, not being exposed to the risks). Jorge's oil friends put him into office and Hayseed is returning the favor....simple as that. He's just created a very complicated environment with which to return such a favor. As proven here, It's certainly complicated enough to fly over the heads of most conservatives...the one group of people that could/should hold that piece of shit in the white house accountable for his actions....