Kevin Shirley talks up Revelation in Modern Guitars

[StoneCold]

http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/004439.html

June 3, 2008

Kevin Shirley Talks about Journey's 'Revelation'

by Tom Watson.

Today marks the release of classic rock group Journey's 2-CD plus DVD package, Revelation (Nomota Records, U.S./Frontier Records, Europe), featuring band members Neal Schon (guitar, backing vocals), Jonathan Cain (keyboards, backing vocals), Ross Valory (bass, backing vocals), Deen Castronovo (drums, percussion, backing vocals) and Journey's new lead vocalist Arnel Pineda. Modern Guitars spoke to the project's producer, engineer and mixer, Kevin Shirley, on June 1, 2008, about his involvement in Revelation.

The three-disc Revelation package could have been titled Revitalization as it represents a contemporary, energetic Journey showcase of the group's powerhouse potential. CD-1 presents 11 tracks (12 in Europe) of new material written by Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain, CD-2 revisits 12 popular titles from the Journey catalog and the DVD is a live performance by the new Journey lineup at a Las Vegas venue in March of this year (and a remarkable piece of work considering the fact that this lineup had no touring legs at that point). Fans of guitarist Neal Schon will be pleased to know that CD-1 includes a long-awaited instrumental, "The Journey," from Schon and the group.

While much as been written, and no doubt much more will be written, about the Cinderella-like discovery of vocalist Arnel Pineda by Neal Schon via YouTube, the success of Revelation will have much to do with the behind-the-scenes contributions of Kevin Shirley, with whom Journey previously collaborated on Trial By Fire (Columbia, 1996) and Arrival (Sony, 2001). In response to the stories that have circulated about conflicts between Schon and Shirley during the recording of Trial and Arrival, in a recent interview with Valerie Nerres, Neal Schon had this to say about working with Shirley: "Kevin is really good with the band. He's a good peacekeeper for one! And he's very musical. He's done an amazing job on this record. I'm really happy with Kevin. On the last record [Arrival] we butted heads a little bit on different issues; this one [Revelation] was pretty smooth rolling. I pretty much came in and instead of trying to be the guitar producer and make sure that everything is like this, this, that, that, I just went in and was like the guitar player and did my stuff and was all ears. He'd say 'Why don't you try this?' and I’d say, 'Fine.' We're not fighting him on it. Before, I didn't want to do a lot of overdubs because I just didn't believe in them. This time he had me do some stuff and I just did it, regardless of if it fit or not. It just made the project a lot easier to get through. Overall, I think that he added a lot. He had some great ideas. We really had great songs and although the band has always been very musical, he actually made it even more musical in some areas."

Kevin Shirley is no stranger to the pages of Modern Guitars or to fans of big name classic rock, and a variety of other genres such as metal, progressive and blues. It's no wonder that acts like Journey, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Joe Bonamassa and Dream Theater (to name a few) turn to him. With Kevin at the helm, listeners can be assured that they have purchased a sonically high quality product presented in a way that does justice to whatever the artist sought to say.

But, it's the fusion of science and artistry that matters. To create a truly satisfying recorded music listening experience two elements must unite: the music has to both sound good and feel good. To "sound good," the artist, engineer, mixer and producer have to conspire to remove the potential sonic barriers between what was performed in the studio, or on stage in the case of live performance recordings, and what streams through our speakers at home. The physics of the recording process conspire against this. When this technical conspiracy falls short, the music seems distant or remote, not immediate and authentic and, like a poorly crafted motion picture, the listener loses the illusion of "being there" - the suspension of disbelief is pierced and we're back to sitting on the living room sofa instead of at the feet of Led Zeppelin.

Immediacy and authenticity are two hallmarks of a Kevin Shirley recording. Whether it's Journey, Zeppelin or Bonamassa, Shirley removes the barriers between microphone and ear without formula or obtrusive personal imprint. It's recorded music as the artist wants to be heard with a clarity and quality that produce as direct an experience as physics and taste allow.

Sonic quality, though, is only half the recipe. Music isn't just heard, it's felt. Without emotional impact, what's the point? There's no value in the quality delivery of a weak or empty message, and emotional impact is the heart of the Journey experience, an identifiable brand of ascendant uplift that peaks without crossing the line into maudlin power Pop.

This, perhaps, is the most important hallmark of a Kevin Shirley recording: his ability to hit that feel-good emotional peak of an artist's message by avoiding "too much" or "too little." With big acts that deliver a big sound aiming for a big impact, taste and restraint are critical.

Journey's Revelation is a successful artistic conspiracy.

Tom: With two CDs plus a DVD, Revelation must have been a massive project.

Kevin: They originally called me to do a couple of tracks, they were basically doing this Wal-Mart package. I was kind of pleased they called since Neal [Schon] and I had had a little bit of a hiccup along the way [Trial By Fire] over something that was fairly insignificant, then they had gone on and done a couple of albums on their own, which I thought were fairly average. So, I was pleased by the call and we did a couple of songs and I was pretty focused on not doing something that was average. Then, the project went from two songs to four songs to 24 songs. It ended up being a lot of hard work.

Tom: Neal had some classy things to say about you in a recent interview.

Kevin: It's good to hear. He's in a great place. He's stone-cold sober and the guy is a guitar hero, really. I think he's underrated and under-credited for what he does and how much he's done. He's a unique guitar player.

Tom: Did you work on this at the Document Room?

Kevin: No, we did everything at The Plant in Sausalito [California], which is kind of their home base. We tracked all the stuff over there and then I mixed it all in Las Vegas - I would have mixed it at the Document Room but they were shut down at the time.

Tom: How much time did you have to work on the project?

Kevin: I think I had about six or seven weeks. I went up in late October [2007] and worked through October and November, then I went to London in early December for the Led Zeppelin reunion concert and came back and worked on it through December, right up to the time Joe Bonamassa came in for his new studio album in January. Most of my time was spent with CD-1, the new material. CD-2 is a group of songs they've been playing for 20 years, they're part of the Journey bible, so I didn't have as much to do with them - they went in and did all the basic tracks themselves, Jonathan and Neal. Jonathan coached Arnel through the greatest hits, then I came in at the end of it and sort of dotted the 'i's and crossed the 't's and made sure everything was honky dory.

Then, the DVD was shot in Vegas in March. I actually mixed that at the Document Room.

Tom: Neal, in the interview I mentioned, said there was a syncing problem with the DVD. That must have been a piece of work.

Kevin: That was a real piece of work. It was like the DVD was jinxed because just before they did all the line checks on the day of the show, they lost power and so they lost all the sync with the cameras and didn't re-sync them prior to the shoot. When I got the finals back, they just weren't good enough, and we were at test pressings by then, so they asked me if I could fix it. So, I went into the video studio, and if you can believe this, I sat there from eleven in the morning until six at night just moving frames around so that everything was back in sync - I mean, it was a live show and it was looking like it was mocked up dummy show. When I was done, I called home and said I was on my way and would pick up some dinner, and just then the computer crashed and the guy that was editing it hadn't saved it once during the entire project. What can you do? I walked around the block, had a beer and came back to do it again.

Tom: You've told me you're proud of Revelation. Why?

Kevin: Forgive me for not digging into the shameless album plug I should, but you're a somewhat technical, guitar magazine, so I'll save that for People.com, I guess.

Journey are one of the biggest of America's supergroups. They are part of the fabric of life here. People have met their sweethearts and lost their virginity to Journey songs, been married to them, been buried to these anthems and they deserve to be heralded as such and not disposed of by any shallow MTV flavor of the month shoulder shrug.

I've been fortunate to work with them before, but they've since lost their way a bit and this was a real opportunity to ressurect them. From a totally selfish point of view, I felt it gave me an opportunity to show what a producer can do - because at the end of the day, the music sounds simple, and it sounds like Journey - and the question often asked is what does a producer do? So, I took this as a personal hardcore challenge and was very tough about making it answer the critics. I was deeply involved in the process - making sure hi-hats were hit a certain way, deciding how and when cymbals were used, making sure bass patterns and musical passages were presented in a certain way.

It sounds very arrogant and unnecessary, but I wasn't doing it my way - I was showing them how to do it their way. Once egos are out of the equation, they play as a band. It becomes Journey once more. As a producer, I wanted it to be Journey - it doesnt sound like Zeppelin or Bonamassa or Iron Maiden - they all sound like themselves and that's my input. Unlike producers like Mutt Lange, who is awesome and who has a signature sound, I like the bands to have their own sonic identities and I felt Journey had lost theirs, and not just because of the singer quandry. They are some of the best musicians ever - Neal should be more of a guitar hero than he is, just phenomenal, really, and better than ever. Jon Cain has my undying respect for his depth as a total and complete musician, not just a keyboard player, and the same is true of them all. Ross is inimitable, Deen's great - and Arnel is a sensation.

Tom: Revelation is an interesting title. What's being revealed?

Kevin: I don't know - it's Neal's title. Maybe it's the beginning of a theme and they'll call the rest after Bible books too - Deuteronomy...Genesis. [Laughs] To be honest, my interest is mostly in the CD of new material. The second disc and DVD are terrific, but the history making is in Revelation CD1.

Tom: What did your role of producer entail?

Kevin: Well, I'm a song doctor first, not a writer. If it doesn't work I attempt to be the catalyst in moving it to a place that is organic to the writer, so that the songs remain theirs. Then, the total picture settles in my mind, before we even record a note, and I set about chasing that sound from before the recording starts - "Let's try a clean Strat on this with this style that you do so well," etc. Then, as the song builds it's just organic and I build it to where I like it and try like hell not to overdo stuff and avoid fluff.

Everyone in the band always has more overdub ideas when I am finished, but I am nothing if not dog-headed, persistent, insistent, unyielding. I listen to everyone's ideas and probably use 10% at the end. It's a challenge for the band I think, but when you have a band with characters as strong as the guys in Journey, it takes a big effort to do as you believe. In the end, I know they love what we achieve together, and I feel like the sixth band member, even if that's just me. And I care about it deeply, with a passion. It's like my baby, and this week she came of age and needs to go out and earn a living - hopefully not on the street corners of Download Land and MP3 Drive.

Tom: What makes a song a Journey song?

Kevin: It's in the melody. It's the song between the piano and the guitar, and then the voice tells a story that floats above the music and there's triumph. Journey is also unabated energy and passion, and a boatload of emotion. I think it's rare to find that without the cheese factor, but the musicianship is so real that it achieves it.

Tom: I've read that including the instrumental track, "The Journey," was your idea. True?

Kevin: Once we got into the project, once we got into doing a whole new album, I wanted the new album to be a stand-alone and complete package: rockers, ballads, prog-ish tunes, and an instrumental, to showcase what the band could do. So, I had the rap with Jon and Neal and they came up with a few things, written during the sessions - the stand-outs being "Change For The Better," which echoes the Escape days, although I rearranged the ass out of it only because I couldn't really understand their demo, and the instrumental ["The Journey"], which I arranged to be majestic enough that it could open the show.

Tom: Pineda must be a healthy fellow. That could be powerhouse pressure. Talent's a big element, but still takes a good dose of health and grounding.

Kevin: He's great. He's raw, but he's a singer of untapped depth. I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour. Journey material is the toughest a tenor could have. Even Steve Perry, in his day, couldn't handle the present material with its added grit, as well as the soaring ballads, on an extended tour. I hope Arnel keeps some reserve and doesnt blow it out in the excitement of the big gigs - but he's the real deal. He could be one of the greats.

[NealIsGod]

So, I went into the video studio, and if you can believe this, I sat there from eleven in the morning until six at night just moving frames around so that everything was back in sync - I mean, it was a live show and it was looking like it was mocked up dummy show. When I was done, I called home and said I was on my way and would pick up some dinner, and just then the computer crashed and the guy that was editing it hadn't saved it once during the entire project. What can you do? I walked around the block, had a beer and came back to do it again.

Man, that's brutal. I'll bet that editor now has two assholes.

[The_Noble_Cause]

and the instrumental ["The Journey"], which I arranged to be majestic enough that it could open the show.

I was wondering if they would use this to open shows - similar to how the Red 13 intro was used.

Great interview.
Kevin's fingerprints are all over this album. "Change for the Better" in particular. What could've been a fairly straiforward AOR track, has been turned into a tempo-shifting expansive epic.

[AlteredDNA]

and the instrumental ["The Journey"], which I arranged to be majestic enough that it could open the show.

I was wondering if they would use this to open shows - similar to how the Red 13 intro was used.

Great interview.
Kevin's fingerprints are all over this album. "Change for the Better" in particular. What could've been a fairly straiforward AOR track, has been turned into a tempo-shifting expansive epic.

Change For The Better is "currently" my favorite...

Love this quote:

Journey are one of the biggest of America's supergroups. They are part of the fabric of life here. People have met their sweethearts and lost their virginity to Journey songs, been married to them, been buried to these anthems and they deserve to be heralded as such and not disposed of by any shallow MTV flavor of the month shoulder shrug.

[Carlitto H@kk]

"He's great. He's raw, but he's a singer of untapped depth. I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour. Journey material is the toughest a tenor could have. Even Steve Perry, in his day, couldn't handle the present material with its added grit, as well as the soaring ballads, on an extended tour. I hope Arnel keeps some reserve and doesnt blow it out in the excitement of the big gigs - but he's the real deal. He could be one of the greats."

Seems Shirley shares some of the same worries that some of us
have expressed when Arnel got hired...

I guess maybe all the folks that told us we were crazy
and jaded and just mad that Journey didn't stick w/
"our guy" (insert Augeri or Soto depending on who you are)
should give us some props for not being as dumb as we sound sometimes

but hey, the new album SLAYS and I hope nothing but
the complete best to Arnel!

[Barb]

Journey are one of the biggest of America's supergroups. They are part of the fabric of life here. People have met their sweethearts and lost their virginity to Journey songs, been married to them, been buried to these anthems and they deserve to be heralded as such and not disposed of by any shallow MTV flavor of the month shoulder shrug.

AMEN.

[Liquid_Drummer]

"He's great. He's raw, but he's a singer of untapped depth. I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour. Journey material is the toughest a tenor could have. Even Steve Perry, in his day, couldn't handle the present material with its added grit, as well as the soaring ballads, on an extended tour. I hope Arnel keeps some reserve and doesnt blow it out in the excitement of the big gigs - but he's the real deal. He could be one of the greats."

Seems Shirley shares some of the same worries that some of us
have expressed when Arnel got hired...

I guess maybe all the folks that told us we were crazy
and jaded and just mad that Journey didn't stick w/
"our guy" (insert Augeri or Soto depending on who you are)
should give us some props for not being as dumb as we sound sometimes

but hey, the new album SLAYS and I hope nothing but
the complete best to Arnel!

Thank you !!!! I hope Arnel can make it too. I would hate to for him to have to take Steroid shots to get through shows and ultimately ruin his chords... Think of this though. The money that he makes over here will allow him to live like a damn king in his home country after the currency exchange...

[Journey/Survivor]

What is a golfing legend doing writing an article for a guitar magazine?

[Rick]

So, I went into the video studio, and if you can believe this, I sat there from eleven in the morning until six at night just moving frames around so that everything was back in sync - I mean, it was a live show and it was looking like it was mocked up dummy show. When I was done, I called home and said I was on my way and would pick up some dinner, and just then the computer crashed and the guy that was editing it hadn't saved it once during the entire project. What can you do? I walked around the block, had a beer and came back to do it again.

Man, that's brutal. I'll bet that editor now has two assholes.

That poor bastard. Click the save button once in a while.

[JrnySuxBalls]

Kevin: I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour.

You know, the more I listen to this, the more he sounds like Augeri to me. Nowhere near as much headvoice as Perry. Could this be history about to repeat itself?

[conversationpc]

Kevin: I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour.

You know, the more I listen to this, the more he sounds like Augeri to me. Nowhere near as much headvoice as Perry. Could this be history about to repeat itself?

Nah, he sounds like he's much more in his natural voice than Augeri ever did.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Kevin: I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour.

You know, the more I listen to this, the more he sounds like Augeri to me. Nowhere near as much headvoice as Perry. Could this be history about to repeat itself?

Nah, he sounds like he's much more in his natural voice than Augeri ever did.

Agreed.

[conversationpc]

Kevin: I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour.

You know, the more I listen to this, the more he sounds like Augeri to me. Nowhere near as much headvoice as Perry. Could this be history about to repeat itself?

Nah, he sounds like he's much more in his natural voice than Augeri ever did.

Agreed.

I will say, though, that I agree with Shirley. Considering Arnel's history of vocal problems and his current age at 40+, it has to be concerning. I'm kinda surprised the band didn't want to go with someone 30-ish or younger.

[ProgRocker53]

Kevin: I am a little concerned that he doesn't have the experience to control his voice over a long tour.

You know, the more I listen to this, the more he sounds like Augeri to me. Nowhere near as much headvoice as Perry. Could this be history about to repeat itself?

Nah, he sounds like he's much more in his natural voice than Augeri ever did.

Agreed.

I will say, though, that I agree with Shirley. Considering Arnel's history of vocal problems and his current age at 40+, it has to be concerning. I'm kinda surprised the band didn't want to go with someone 30-ish or younger.

Alot of people I've shown pictures/videos of Arnel to, think he's like 25.

He does look pretty young for his age.