Has Journey's "voice" lost it's identity???

[Carlitto H@kk]

This may sound like a very crazy thought but it is
something I found myself doing today and it is bothersome...

First a little back story.
Growing up listening to Journey, no matter what album it was,
it was easy for me to throw some headphones on, lie down,
close my eyes and envision the band performing as I listened.
I could picture Perry's every move and facial expression.

When Augeri came on board, his tone was different enough from Perry's
so that it was easy for me to do the same when listening to his albums
with the band.

So I'm listening to Revelation (cd 1) today and I really can't get
that "vision" in my mind. On some tracks I "see" Augeri or
there are runs where I "see" Perry and sometimes I
just "see" Arnel.

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I fucking love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, as bad as I'm Not That Way)
and The Journey (alittle boring, sounds like a Late Night left-over),
but I am having a hard time truly "identifying" with the band like I used to.

Make sense???
Any Thoughts???

[StoneCold]

Interesting topic. As we see these performed it'll settle into what you mentioned about Perry/Augeri. Speaking of which, we'll be lucky to see FITH done considering the DD and new stuff. Would like to hear AP do WYLAW though.

Disagree about AATY vs. INTW though. INTW seems slower imo. AATY hooks more and seems more complete if that makes any sense.

[Moose]

I think AATY might be their best ballad since Faithfully...really grabs me...and I do NOT like this band for their ballads.

Carlitto, I can see what you are saying...but maybe this disc will be one that grows on us with time. Trial By Fire grew on me over time.

We'll see, I guess.

[STORY_TELLER]

I was sort of thinking the same thing myself today as I was listening to the CD in the car. Only I took the feeling from a different place than you did.

For me, Journey's voice will always be Perry. Unique. Stylized. Instantly recognizable character. Whereas while Arnel has fantastic pitch, piercing tone and sophisticated vibrato, (the best Journey's had since Perry), he is a little bland in the vocal character department.

It's not ruining anything for me per se, so much as I feel like I'm missing something. I know I'd enjoy it more if it were there. That being said, I'm firm in my feeling that I do NOT want Arnel doing Perryisms on new material. It's there on some of the songs, but not saturated throughout. Arnel should be Arnel. Like Shirley said, he's raw. Who knows what kind of an artist he is? He didn't really have the elbow room to be himself on Revelation. All the tracks were written before he was hired. He was just a molded vocalist here. I hope he gets to collaborate more in the future and gets to show us what he's made of.

[stevew2]

This may sound like a very crazy thought but it is
something I found myself doing today and it is bothersome...

First a little back story.
Growing up listening to Journey, no matter what album it was,
it was easy for me to throw some headphones on, lie down,
close my eyes and envision the band performing as I listened.
I could picture Perry's every move and facial expression.

When Augeri came on board, his tone was different enough from Perry's
so that it was easy for me to do the same when listening to his albums
with the band.

So I'm listening to Revelation (cd 1) today and I really can't get
that "vision" in my mind. On some tracks I "see" Augeri or
there are runs where I "see" Perry and sometimes I
just "see" Arnel.

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I fucking love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, as bad as I'm Not That Way)
and The Journey (alittle boring, sounds like a Late Night left-over),
but I am having a hard time truly "identifying" with the band like I used to.

Make sense???
Any Thoughts???

The guitar player in my band said the same thing, he wont accept it period, Im not so sure myself now.Its fucked you when you have 4 singers singin the same song.If you are having a hard time with the band dont feel bad .I dont Identify with the band at all, but i like alot of the tunes iI am hearing.

[Deb]

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I soooo totally get that! That's why JSS-fronted Journey won me (a die-hard Perry fan) over. To me, Journey was new, exciting and unique again. Not so much now. I do think Arnel does a great job and has a great voice and seems to be a sweet guy living out his dream............but for me the "Journey" passion has definitely waned again. I like what I hear so far and will buy the the cd and will probably go to a show if they come to my city, but the spark is gone for this fan.

LOL, probably not the best time to be answering this question. Watched this JSS-fronted Journey clip earlier. Best soulful delivery since Perry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDtHpo3I5vc

[The_Noble_Cause]

This may sound like a very crazy thought but it is
something I found myself doing today and it is bothersome...

First a little back story.
Growing up listening to Journey, no matter what album it was,
it was easy for me to throw some headphones on, lie down,
close my eyes and envision the band performing as I listened.
I could picture Perry's every move and facial expression.

When Augeri came on board, his tone was different enough from Perry's
so that it was easy for me to do the same when listening to his albums
with the band.

So I'm listening to Revelation (cd 1) today and I really can't get
that "vision" in my mind. On some tracks I "see" Augeri or
there are runs where I "see" Perry and sometimes I
just "see" Arnel.

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I fucking love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, as bad as I'm Not That Way)
and The Journey (alittle boring, sounds like a Late Night left-over),
but I am having a hard time truly "identifying" with the band like I used to.

Make sense???
Any Thoughts???

I actually recall having these same conflicted thoughts upon first hearing "Arrival."
It took several listens before my ears finally recognized Augeri for his own style and inflections.
Neal or Jon once stated that their music sounded like Journey even when they sang on it, and to some extent that is true.
So it's even harder to appreciate this album on its own merits when you have someone uncanily channeling Perry the way Arnel does.
Songs like "What it Takes to Win" is where his real voice shines.

[Since 78]

This may sound like a very crazy thought but it is
something I found myself doing today and it is bothersome...

First a little back story.
Growing up listening to Journey, no matter what album it was,
it was easy for me to throw some headphones on, lie down,
close my eyes and envision the band performing as I listened.
I could picture Perry's every move and facial expression.

When Augeri came on board, his tone was different enough from Perry's
so that it was easy for me to do the same when listening to his albums
with the band.

So I'm listening to Revelation (cd 1) today and I really can't get
that "vision" in my mind. On some tracks I "see" Augeri or
there are runs where I "see" Perry and sometimes I
just "see" Arnel.

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I fucking love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, as bad as I'm Not That Way)
and The Journey (alittle boring, sounds like a Late Night left-over),
but I am having a hard time truly "identifying" with the band like I used to.

Make sense???
Any Thoughts???

I actually recall having these same conflicted thoughts upon first hearing "Arrival."
It took several listens before my ears finally recognized Augeri for his own style and inflections.
Neal or Jon once stated that their music sounded like Journey even when they sang on it, and to some extent that is true.
So it's even harder to appreciate this album on its own merits when you have someone uncanily channeling Perry the way Arnel does.
Songs like "What it Takes to Win" is where his real voice shines.

Best answer so far TNC, and it doesn't help having FITH in the middle of everything. I'm trying to keep in mind that these songs were written before Arnel and hope they come up with some new material more suited to his own style.

[Duncan]

I think part of the problem is that Arnel doesn't yet know who he is vocally. To me almost every song on Revelation could be a different singer. Nevertheless, I think he is incredibly talented but needs to find a consistent voice. Love the album though.

[Pelata]

This goes back to my "a band trying to be Journey" comment...

[xflajrnylvr]

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I soooo totally get that! That's why JSS-fronted Journey won me (a die-hard Perry fan) over. To me, Journey was new, exciting and unique again. Not so much now. I do think Arnel does a great job and has a great voice and seems to be a sweet guy living out his dream............but for me the "Journey" passion has definitely waned again. I like what I hear so far and will buy the the cd and will probably go to a show if they come to my city, but the spark is gone for this fan.

I totally agree with this JSs brought the spark back after SA left. I love a couple of the songs from the new album but I wont be attending any shows ( baby on the way and the heat when they come to my area this year

[jrnyjetster]

For me, Journey's voice will always be Perry. Unique. Stylized. Instantly recognizable character. Whereas while Arnel has fantastic pitch, piercing tone and sophisticated vibrato, (the best Journey's had since Perry), he is a little bland in the vocal character department.

BLAND?? Are you fucking kidding me?

[SteveForever]

Carl, great thread, I feel the same exact way. I want to like them because the tunes are good, but
it is like a different singer all throughout the album and its not charismatic or soulful. It doesn't make me
feel anything or even transmit a story.

I also feel like this was some kind of TRIBUTE album without them really saying it. Did every past member
of Journey get some sort of financial reward from this release EXCEPT JSS? Everyone's name is on it
in some fashion but his?

[Arkansas]

...love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, ...
Any Thoughts???

Glad someone else hears that too. I said in a post maybe a month ago that this song needs to be released to country radio as a duet with major stars (Faith Hill/Tim McGraw ?) to do it real justice. AP & DC do it great, but since the song implies that the lead & backing are singing to each other, then this arrangement is kinda gay. So maybe the song gets altered for dual leads and you make it a true love song where the two are singing to each other. And I think country radio could capture this perfectly.


later~

[frfksakes]

This may sound like a very crazy thought but it is
something I found myself doing today and it is bothersome...

First a little back story.
Growing up listening to Journey, no matter what album it was,
it was easy for me to throw some headphones on, lie down,
close my eyes and envision the band performing as I listened.
I could picture Perry's every move and facial expression.

When Augeri came on board, his tone was different enough from Perry's
so that it was easy for me to do the same when listening to his albums
with the band.

So I'm listening to Revelation (cd 1) today and I really can't get
that "vision" in my mind. On some tracks I "see" Augeri or
there are runs where I "see" Perry and sometimes I
just "see" Arnel.

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I fucking love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, as bad as I'm Not That Way)
and The Journey (alittle boring, sounds like a Late Night left-over),
but I am having a hard time truly "identifying" with the band like I used to.

Make sense???
Any Thoughts???

I actually recall having these same conflicted thoughts upon first hearing "Arrival."
It took several listens before my ears finally recognized Augeri for his own style and inflections.
Neal or Jon once stated that their music sounded like Journey even when they sang on it, and to some extent that is true.
So it's even harder to appreciate this album on its own merits when you have someone uncanily channeling Perry the way Arnel does.
Songs like "What it Takes to Win" is where his real voice shines.

ok both of you




(ps great thread! Personally I think the answer is - for the moment , YES.
Both Arnel and Augeri are at their best when their "real voice shines." I look forward to seeing how much Arnel will get to stretch his...)

[Matthew]

I think part of the problem is that Arnel doesn't yet know who he is vocally. To me almost every song on Revelation could be a different singer. Nevertheless, I think he is incredibly talented but needs to find a consistent voice.

Good point...and the more I listen to the album the more I can here Arnel shifting personas. This might be why the record has that 'diet drink' taste to it. It's not quite authentic enough. It isn't hitting the spot....

I guess years of doing cover versions will do that to you. It'll be interesting to hear Arnel's voice later on this year after the two big tours.

[StoneCold]

...love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, ...
Any Thoughts???

I said in a post maybe a month ago that this song needs to be released to country radio as a duet with major stars (Faith Hill/Tim McGraw ?)

later~

I usually get a kick out of your posts but FH & TM?

[tammy]

First off...Journey & Country should not be used in the same sentence. If AATY goes country...ugh! (um, like JC's countryfying "Faithfully")...Arnel & Deen's blended voices are the best part of the song.

Actually, I like that AP's voice can sound different on songs...to me it is like how SP sounds different on many songs. I couldn't stand monotony. 'Course, it is hard to know what voice IS Arnel's own...is it "what it takes to win" or AATY or...? Yes, I can hear a SA voice in part of "sunshower" and SP in other songs...what's weird is I am also imagining JSS in "what it takes to win"!!?

[Greg]

I think part of the problem is that Arnel doesn't yet know who he is vocally. To me almost every song on Revelation could be a different singer. Nevertheless, I think he is incredibly talented but needs to find a consistent voice.

Good point...and the more I listen to the album the more I can here Arnel shifting personas. This might be why the record has that 'diet drink' taste to it. It's not quite authentic enough. It isn't hitting the spot....

I guess years of doing cover versions will do that to you. It'll be interesting to hear Arnel's voice later on this year after the two big tours.

I think that's why I liked Steve Augeri and Jeff Scott Soto so much. They had their own unique style and personality that was added to the classics (although I was and still am against the idea of classics being re-recorded.)

Then again, I would've LOVED to have had Jeremey in the band, so I think I'm torn on this whole Journey stuff nowadays.

[StoneCold]

Actually, I like that AP's voice can sound different on songs... I couldn't stand monotony.

That's what she said.

Um, I mean. What she said.

[Saint John]

I think part of the problem is that Arnel doesn't yet know who he is vocally. To me almost every song on Revelation could be a different singer. Nevertheless, I think he is incredibly talented but needs to find a consistent voice.

Good point...and the more I listen to the album the more I can here Arnel shifting personas. This might be why the record has that 'diet drink' taste to it. It's not quite authentic enough. It isn't hitting the spot....

I guess years of doing cover versions will do that to you. It'll be interesting to hear Arnel's voice later on this year after the two big tours.

I think that's why I liked Steve Augeri and Jeff Scott Soto so much. They had their own unique style and personality that was added to the classics (although I was and still am against the idea of classics being re-recorded.)

Then again, I would've LOVED to have had Jeremey in the band, so I think I'm torn on this whole Journey stuff nowadays.

If people are bitching about Arnel "channeling" Perry then they would have been fuming over Jeremey. Personally, I like them both a lot.

[marco17]

Was listening to the CD again this morning in the car on my commute and have to really agree that you could envision Augeri singing a few of the tracks as well as Perry. I also agree that since Arnel is such a chameleon with his voice, you are never sure what is natural and what is imitation.

[STORY_TELLER]

For me, Journey's voice will always be Perry. Unique. Stylized. Instantly recognizable character. Whereas while Arnel has fantastic pitch, piercing tone and sophisticated vibrato, (the best Journey's had since Perry), he is a little bland in the vocal character department.

BLAND?? Are you fucking kidding me?

Ummm... no. Not fucking kidding you one bit. Do you know the difference between character and skill? Go listen to Perry's "I stand alone" from that animated soundtrack he sang on. On that same album, another singer, some broadway guy, much younger than Perry, sings the same song. He has a very skilled voice, but the character isn't the same and his version comes off bland in comparison. That's a good example of what I'm referring to.

It's not a slam on Arnel. It's in reference to the subject of the thread: "Has Journey's "voice" lost its identity?"

[Michigan Girl]

A GREAT example!!!!

Bryan White~I Stand Alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJtk-NFeCb4


Steve Perry~ I Stand Alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWoyFtZ3vJU

[lights1961]

This may sound like a very crazy thought but it is
something I found myself doing today and it is bothersome...

First a little back story.
Growing up listening to Journey, no matter what album it was,
it was easy for me to throw some headphones on, lie down,
close my eyes and envision the band performing as I listened.
I could picture Perry's every move and facial expression.

When Augeri came on board, his tone was different enough from Perry's
so that it was easy for me to do the same when listening to his albums
with the band.

So I'm listening to Revelation (cd 1) today and I really can't get
that "vision" in my mind. On some tracks I "see" Augeri or
there are runs where I "see" Perry and sometimes I
just "see" Arnel.

This bothers me cause part of the "magic" for me, when it
comes to getting totally into a band or it's music is being
able to "envision" it; it has it's own identity...
I'm not getting it right now.

I fucking love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, as bad as I'm Not That Way)
and The Journey (alittle boring, sounds like a Late Night left-over),
but I am having a hard time truly "identifying" with the band like I used to.

Make sense???
Any Thoughts???

good post... funny thing is i love after all these years and the instrumental... I just have a hard time with the band going through 4 singers...
so in that since the identity has been LOST. **The Journey talent is still there as a band** but great thought process on the identity of Journey.



Rick

[SF-Dano]

I think AATY might be their best ballad since Faithfully...really grabs me...and I do NOT like this band for their ballads.

Carlitto, I can see what you are saying...but maybe this disc will be one that grows on us with time. Trial By Fire grew on me over time.

We'll see, I guess.

I was thinking the same thing. AATY is their best ballad since Faithfully, IMO. Great lyrical content in my opinion. Some may consider it too sappy, but I find it truely beautiful. Loved that little video that was on YouTube also. A very positive song about lifelong relationships.

[Arkansas]

...love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, ...
Any Thoughts???

I said in a post maybe a month ago that this song needs to be released to country radio as a duet with major stars (Faith Hill/Tim McGraw ?)

later~

I usually get a kick out of your posts but FH & TM?

Oh I don't know. Those were just two names that have had great success. I'm just suggesting that this song could be a huge seller if it were a couple's theme (a la, Kenny Rogers & Dottie West, in their day). If this song were to be covered as some country-pop duet, you'd hear it at every anniversary party and possibly high school proms. Ya know, maybe Miranda Lambert & Jason Aldean. Somebody hot and/or up & coming. No idea who. I can just hear this song getting huge on urban country pop radio.


later~

[StoneCold]

...love just about every song on this album,
except AATY (too country, ...
Any Thoughts???

I said in a post maybe a month ago that this song needs to be released to country radio as a duet with major stars (Faith Hill/Tim McGraw ?)

later~

I usually get a kick out of your posts but FH & TM?

Oh I don't know. Those were just two names that have had great success. I'm just suggesting that this song could be a huge seller if it were a couple's theme (a la, Kenny Rogers & Dottie West, in their day). If this song were to be covered as some country-pop duet, you'd hear it at every anniversary party and possibly high school proms. Ya know, maybe Miranda Lambert & Jason Aldean. Somebody hot and/or up & coming. No idea who. I can just hear this song getting huge on urban country pop radio.


later~

Hey as long as its not FH & TM, you're off the hook. You're right though. Countryfry AATY with Keith Urban and Carrie Underwood and it'll be all over the radio.

[kgdjpubs]

I think part of the problem is that Arnel doesn't yet know who he is vocally. To me almost every song on Revelation could be a different singer. Nevertheless, I think he is incredibly talented but needs to find a consistent voice.

Good point...and the more I listen to the album the more I can here Arnel shifting personas. This might be why the record has that 'diet drink' taste to it. It's not quite authentic enough. It isn't hitting the spot....

I guess years of doing cover versions will do that to you. It'll be interesting to hear Arnel's voice later on this year after the two big tours.

I think that's why I liked Steve Augeri and Jeff Scott Soto so much. They had their own unique style and personality that was added to the classics (although I was and still am against the idea of classics being re-recorded.)

Then again, I would've LOVED to have had Jeremey in the band, so I think I'm torn on this whole Journey stuff nowadays.

I think there are multiple issues going on at the same time that account for this. Part of this issue may be the same thing Genesis faced when Phil Collins originally left (along with several other bands--Van Halen, Survivor, etc). You write a whole bunch of songs without knowing who is going to be singing them. Hard to write for a specific singer when you have had 3-4 different singers in that timeframe (depending on whether you count Never Walk Away written for/by Jeremey). Certain melody lines just seem to work different for different singers, and what is dead-on for one sounds off for someone else.

Augeri has a style, but it was definitely muted for Arrival. Listen to the difference in Augeri's voice from Arrival to Red 13/Generations. He was really smooth on Arrival, then went back to the gritty Tall Stories sound on later records--and that's still different to the voice on Remember Me. Given comments made at the time, some of the songs on Arrival date back as far as post-TBF when Perry was still around but inactive. For Red 13, Augeri was firmly established in the band, and any songs written were for his voice, and his natural style came back to the forefront. I would imagine by album #2 that the writing-for-your-singer will smooth out a bit, and Arnel's style will be more consistent.

Issue #2 is the fact that Arnel is extremely talented, but very RAW. It's not like he has recorded a whole bunch of albums and, added to that, is not known as a "rock singer". It's being thrown to the sharks and told to swim. The slower songs are fairly consistent in delivery style--the difference is in the uptempo songs, where he varies from very smooth to quite edgy. Unfortunately, this is where the chameleon effect tends to work against you if you don't have a definite style of your own. You tend to go for the best feel of the song without changing it to fit your strengths as a vocalist. As mentioned, writing for Arnel will help this, as will him singing uptempo material on a regular basis.

There is side arguement here that changes the entire game--nobody really knows how much input the singer really gets to alter melody lines in a big-name band like Journey. Augeri mentioned he had intentionally altered his delivery to a smoother style for Arrival as it was "Journey", and fan comments suggested he revert to the gritty Tall Stories vocal for Generations. That says there is some latitude, but how long did it take for Augeri to put his own influences and style on the band??? Judging by a lot of the inflections and phrasing that Arnel does live on the hits, one would have expected a lot of that to be on the re-recordings. He appears to be a very off-the-cuff singer like Perry who would mix up the vocal melodies from night to night...as opposed to Augeri who found a happy medium and stayed there in his comfort zone. Neither approach is wrong--just different. However, listening to the cd, Arnel vocally is deviating VERY little from the originals. THAT is intentional, and I doubt it was his idea to do a pure mimic. Either way, once you listen to the intentional vocal stylings to copy Perry on the Greatest Hits, that adds yet another kink into the puzzle of how much of what Arnel is singing is adding his style to songs, or just singing what he is told to sing. Without knowing that, any arguement on whether he has a "preferred style" is pure conjecture.

[Matthew]

I think that's why I liked Steve Augeri and Jeff Scott Soto so much. They had their own unique style and personality that was added to the classics (although I was and still am against the idea of classics being re-recorded.)

.

JSS maybe..but ten years on I've yet to locate the mysterious 'unique style' of Steve Augeri.