Perry vs. Schon -- this is bugging me

[STORY_TELLER]

UTTER Bullshit, Rip.

Roughly speaking, Perry was free to play Journey songs without Neal, Ross, Jon et al, right?
Likewise, I suppose Neal, Ross, Jon et al were free to play those same songs without Pery, right?
Since they co-created those tunes, it's nice that they agree on those terms of usage.
Tuneage therefore isn't the problem, and yes... Neal is intentionally misdirecting us to tuneage as the issue,
because maybe it's too fucking irritating to even bring up what Perry's problem really was.

Here's the big fuckup, then.

Both sides are squared away on tune usage, and it's usage of the band's name that's Perrys issue.

Now, maybe I'm just too stupid to see things straight,
but the band's name "Journey" predates Perry's joining the band.
It strikes me, however much I adore Perry, as pretty fucking arrogant
of him to be even suggesting the band not use its own name.

...as if Journey had ABSOLUTELY no identity as a band before Perry joined.
There are no doubt some here who would argue just such a belief, and hey,
If Hoovering that kind of shit out of Perry's ass for over a decade floats your boat...
then float on...


-wech

Well, this is what many on this board have been getting into arguments about, but the fact is, it's a silly petty hair splitting agenda laden argument on its face.

While technically it's true that Journey was Neal's band and was started before Perry joined, the fact is Journey didn't find the public eye or radio play before him. They were about to lose their record deal. True, they hired Robert Fleishman before Perry, but are you going to tell me that Journey would have gone on to the success they are today with Fleishman at the helm? We certainly wouldn't have Escape or Frontiers and I guarantee you, we would not be talking about Journey today if Perry was never hired. The band rose to success on the chemistry of Schon and Perry, but Perry was the focal point of popularity (as most frontmen are).

Lets not forget that even Neal credits Perry with their success (on VH1 BTM). The songs that people expect to hear at a Journey concert are the ones fronted by Perry. On the rockline Revelation interview, out of their own mouth, Neal and Ross said that when they recently toured the entire Journey catalog, starting with the stuff that pre-dated Perry, fans didn't have a clue what was going on. Some thought it was an opening act. There were even people who asked for their money back.

Save for the diehards in this chat room and the educated musician, the average Journey fan doesn't know about nor do they care about whatever form Journey existed before Perry. To this day, those albums haven't sold squat, even with the Journey name on the cover. So come on guys lets not kid ourselves on this subject any longer. Was there a Journey before Perry? Sure, but not enough people know about that version, nor do they care, so it's silly to bring it up.

That being said, here's where the REAL issue lies: Money.

Steve Perry is firmly associated with Journey. The average fan hears Journey, they think Perry. They know his name. Perry also had some solo success with Street Talk (oh sherrie, foolish heart) and to a much lesser degree, FTLOSM (but 'you better wait' was in strong pop radio rotation when I was in NYC). Perry's a celebrated vocalist and his name is (almost) a brand. Perry can tour with his name and people will go to the concert. If he were to tour solo again today, he'd fill the same venues he did on the FTLOSM tour. He filled the same venue in NYC that Journey did when they toured Arrival with Augeri (the beacon theater).

Rip makes an excellent point in that Perry toured the Journey songs because, just as Neal has found himself, the fans expect to hear them from him. They expect this because when they hear Steve Perry, they think Journey. Perry knows his fans would be disappointed if he didn't. He gave them what they wanted. I see nothing wrong with that because he's not advertising his tour as "Steve Perry: featuring the songs of Journey".

Neal, Jon, Ross and Smitty cannot do the same thing. They need the recognition of a popular branded band name to attract an audience. Ross, Smitty and Gregg Rolie formed The Storm, but even with a modest radio hit they couldn't headline a tour. They opened for Brian Adams when their first album came out. Sure, they did a couple of Journey tunes, but no one knew who was up on stage because they were never the focal point of Journey. Perry was.

Perry said go form another band and tour the catalogue. All well and good, but how? Who's going to know that this new band is touring Journey songs? Who would expect it? Who would pay to see it? Could Neal Jon Dean and Ross have reformed Bad English with Augeri and done it that way? Sure, but it's doubtful Bad English could have headlined and even if they could, they wouldn't have filled the same sheds Perry did on his FTLOSM tour. So at the end of the day, this boils down to money.

Neal Jon and Ross were not in the same financial way as Perry before or at the end of the Trial by Fire reunion. Perry can afford the integrity route because he doesn't need to work. The rest of the guys needed to tour as a way to make a living. The only way they could tour and make a profit was under the Journey name. That's all they had left and that's why they had to move on when they did. End of story.

It's unfortunate it worked out this way, but this is where we're at. For those on the fence about whether or not to buy the new album? I bought it. I like it. Is it as good as Journey with Perry in the mix? Not IMO, but it is an energy laden effort and their absolute best in the post Perry era. To my ear, Arnel is the best vocalist Journey has had since Perry and I'm looking forward to the concert this summer. I hope they tour a great deal of the new stuff.

[wednesday's child]

Well okay, then.
(deeeeeep breath)

This is how I really feel I should pitch the outline of a hypothetical TV drama on Journey:

Prefacing all I'll say with the fact that I cherish Perry, Neal and the rest of Journey (past and present)
not only for the well-known musical legacy we enjoy, but for providing the less well-known foundations
that made that legacy even possible...

The breakup, standoff, and the manner in which it developed:

I'll say it was NOT about money. It was NOT about vindictive sabotage.
Those are just convenient, cheap reasons for what they did to each other.
It was not simply about control, or seizing credit for the band's success/legacy, either.


It was, rather, probably something we can ALL relate to, because it's very human.
I've been in too many band breakups not to recognize the signs of hurt feelings and
the irrational testing/provocation of bandmates.

Couples breaking up should also be familiar with the tragedy.
Rather than communicate their insecurities vulnerably, in search of reassurance,
parties can begin armoring up in anticipation of rejection.

They begin prepositioning for claims of "I wasn't fired, I was the one who quit!!", if pride
is to be protected; or for "I didn't abandon them, they replaced me!!!" if it is guilt that
is to be avoided. The latter case is relevant in Perry v. Journey.


I feel the root of it all was twofold:

Firstly, Perry's voice was getting beat up by a merciless tour set/schedule.
Romanticize his ability all you want, you can compare live and recorded performances
over the years of his singing with Journey, and see the voice changing. See him
"cheating away" more and more of the difficult notes, over time.

There should be NO shame over the war wounds of a band's most forward, and most
vulnerable human instrument. Hard-touring vocalists are fucking warriors, and deserve
to be called frontmen and leaders.

That Journey failed to protect Perry's voice was the first betrayal.
Journey knew it was getting bad. Did they protect Perry from the damage? From his own pride?
Or did they exploit Perry's courage, wearing down his voice while their strings, keys and skins
could be replaced cheaply and regularly? Such exploitation is cause for deep resentment.

Worse still, if the exploiters are people Perry genuinely loves.
Human beings, thus betrayed, are apt to just bottle up their hurt feelings, and like a couple breaking up,
get into that testing/provocation thing I mentioned earlier. They'll see juuuust how far their partners
bend backwards if asked, which might satisfy a need for proof-of-love, but never the need for an apology.

Secondly, like other obscenely-talented bands, individual members were exploring side projects.
It's not as big a deal when an instrumentlist goes for a brief solo dip, but when the frontman does, oh boy...
I genuinely felt Perry was NOT ditching Journey for the sake of a solo career. Because of his star power,
however, his solo foray might have had other Journey members nervous, so that THEY started armoring up.
sensitized, they might have begun perceiving Perry's (hurt-induced) testing/provocation not as a cry for help,
but merely as the abusive affectations of a prima donna.

With both sides armored up, neither side willing to expose a vulnerability, the testing/provocation can
ratchet upwards into insults of a deeply personal, and nigh-unforgivable nature. The relationship is dead
at that point, and all that is left is protecing pride or avoiding guilt. Sides set things up so that the other party
loses face or gets blamed for the breakup.

Was Perry the victim here? I'll say yes, he probably was the victim first.
But insofar as that "crack the stone" stuff is concerned... that's to me, a setup to avoid guilt.
An u.nreasonable demand, framed to look like its principled, and designed to force Neal into
pulling the trigger and being the bad guy who fired The Voice.

The relationship ended when the insecurities pushed the testing/provocation too far.

That can all heal over time as parties remember how it once was, and forgive.
Problem is, while things can thus be restored emotionally, a musical restoration remains difficult.
The damage to Perry's voice is there, from Journey's catalog and from age, and unless the band
were to correct the very thing that caused all this hurt, seriously toning down the set/schedule to
protect Perry's voice, it's likely not feasible.


The wounded heart, and the wounded body.
If only one can be saved, which is more important?


There's the plot, pitch, whatever...
Think HBO's writers mght have a go at it?


JM2, YMMV, TANSTAAFL,
wech.






that

[donnaplease]

Dayum! That's good!!!

[NealIsGod]

If Perry had his way, there would be no new Journey albums since 1996 and no Journey tours. His inactivity since 1996 proves that.

[Arkansas]

Don Dokken is one ugly fucker.

Please tone that down.

According to statistics, ithere is a 1 in 4 chance that Don Dokken is your real father, so you might want to take a real good look in the mirror before you start calling Don ugly.

I remember a GQ or Rolling Stone article back in the mid-80s that said Don Dokken & Sheena Easton were voted as having 'perfect noses'. I think the word used was 'aqualine' or something like that. Extremely vague memory.


later~

[wednesday's child]

If Perry had his way, there would be no new Journey albums since 1996 and no Journey tours. His inactivity since 1996 proves that.

Eh. Fuck that, NIG.


If Neal et. al. had taken Perry's vocal problems more seriously and much earlier,
there might have been more tours and albums post 96.

If Perry had just given them the truth much earlier, instead of dicking them around in an emo-haze,
there might have been more tours and albums post 96.

Initial negligence aside...
God knows Neal & Jon later showed good faith, and bent over backwards whenever Perry asked.
but Perry never really asked them for what he really needed.
An apology, and a vastly lighter load on his voice.
Instead he threw up a maze of lies and bullshit, commensurate to the scale of his grievance,
without ever honestly laying out said grievance.

They used to have each thers backs, solid,
They used to bring out the best in each other, beyond what they thought they could each achieve.
But because they didn't pay more attention to each other,
and because they then wouldn't communicate with honesty,
it all went to shit, and the world moved on.

None of them are evil, none of them are saints.
They're human, like we are, except they gave us an immortal musical legacy.
If we can't appreciate that enough to give them some compassion for
their human foibles and the hurts they've borne for it...
then we're the pigheaded, prima donna, malicious saboteurs.

I'm done with this shit.

wech

[EightyRock]

[quote="wednesday's child"]
"It strikes me, however much I adore Perry, as pretty fucking arrogant
of him to be even suggesting the band not use its own name.

...as if Journey had ABSOLUTELY no identity as a band before Perry joined."

They hadn't written classic material prior to him entering the band, so the name "Journey" didn't mean a whole hell of alot to millions of peeps yet. More importantly, had he just been a replacement vocalist ONLY, after Rolie & Fleishman, I might agree that he was off base in his request.

He was also a principal writer of their hits, plus the only frontman so far that gave Journey instant identity due to his presence alone. He was also known to the media as the spokesperson for the band. Most of the interviews were done with him. Hell, Journey still can't get much press without the writer wanting to interview Perry, too.

If I'd been in Perry's shoes at the time, I'd probably have blown a gasket. They didn't have any great success with the Journey name pre-dating him, but now they want all the credit and notoriety that goes with the Journey name that he had a monumental influence in making a success.

Alot of fan fighting would have been avoided if they would have just called it Journey Revisited, Renewed, Reborn, Rehashed , or something.

Perry didn't call Strange Medicine Journey "anythin", even though he did sing some of the songs. Sorry Neal, it aint' the same thing. You were the stone cracker, dude, not Perry.

[Rip Rokken]

None of them are evil, none of them are saints.
They're human, like we are, except they gave us an immortal musical legacy.

That almost sounds like an intro to a VH1 B.T.M. special!

[Rip Rokken]

I remember a GQ or Rolling Stone article back in the mid-80s that said Don Dokken & Sheena Easton were voted as having 'perfect noses'. I think the word used was 'aqualine' or something like that. Extremely vague memory.

May it be the last memory to fade from your mind when senility starts in... haha! Yes, that was back when G.Q. and Rolling Stone were still cool. Once they stopped talking about Dokken, things really started going downhill.

Who could say no to this nose?

[donnaplease]

If Perry had his way, there would be no new Journey albums since 1996 and no Journey tours. His inactivity since 1996 proves that.

Shut up, Niggy.

[TRAGChick]

Firstly, Perry's voice was getting beat up by a merciless tour set/schedule.
Romanticize his ability all you want, you can compare live and recorded performances
over the years of his singing with Journey, and see the voice changing. See him
"cheating away" more and more of the difficult notes, over time.

There should be NO shame over the war wounds of a band's most forward, and most
vulnerable human instrument.

Hard-touring vocalists are fucking warriors, and deserve to be called frontmen and leaders.

That Journey failed to protect Perry's voice was the first betrayal.
Journey knew it was getting bad. Did they protect Perry from the damage? From his own pride?

Or did they exploit Perry's courage, wearing down his voice while their strings, keys and skins
could be replaced cheaply and regularly?

Such exploitation is cause for deep resentment.

I always say this to Mark.....THANK GOD somebody ELSE gets it!

[STORY_TELLER]

Well okay, then.
(deeeeeep breath)

This is how I really feel I should pitch the outline of a hypothetical TV drama on Journey:

Prefacing all I'll say with the fact that I cherish Perry, Neal and the rest of Journey (past and present)
not only for the well-known musical legacy we enjoy, but for providing the less well-known foundations
that made that legacy even possible...

The breakup, standoff, and the manner in which it developed:

I'll say it was NOT about money. It was NOT about vindictive sabotage.
Those are just convenient, cheap reasons for what they did to each other.
It was not simply about control, or seizing credit for the band's success/legacy, either.


It was, rather, probably something we can ALL relate to, because it's very human.
I've been in too many band breakups not to recognize the signs of hurt feelings and
the irrational testing/provocation of bandmates.

Couples breaking up should also be familiar with the tragedy.
Rather than communicate their insecurities vulnerably, in search of reassurance,
parties can begin armoring up in anticipation of rejection.

They begin prepositioning for claims of "I wasn't fired, I was the one who quit!!", if pride
is to be protected; or for "I didn't abandon them, they replaced me!!!" if it is guilt that
is to be avoided. The latter case is relevant in Perry v. Journey.


I feel the root of it all was twofold:

Firstly, Perry's voice was getting beat up by a merciless tour set/schedule.
Romanticize his ability all you want, you can compare live and recorded performances
over the years of his singing with Journey, and see the voice changing. See him
"cheating away" more and more of the difficult notes, over time.

There should be NO shame over the war wounds of a band's most forward, and most
vulnerable human instrument. Hard-touring vocalists are fucking warriors, and deserve
to be called frontmen and leaders.

That Journey failed to protect Perry's voice was the first betrayal.
Journey knew it was getting bad. Did they protect Perry from the damage? From his own pride?
Or did they exploit Perry's courage, wearing down his voice while their strings, keys and skins
could be replaced cheaply and regularly? Such exploitation is cause for deep resentment.

Worse still, if the exploiters are people Perry genuinely loves.
Human beings, thus betrayed, are apt to just bottle up their hurt feelings, and like a couple breaking up,
get into that testing/provocation thing I mentioned earlier. They'll see juuuust how far their partners
bend backwards if asked, which might satisfy a need for proof-of-love, but never the need for an apology.

Secondly, like other obscenely-talented bands, individual members were exploring side projects.
It's not as big a deal when an instrumentlist goes for a brief solo dip, but when the frontman does, oh boy...
I genuinely felt Perry was NOT ditching Journey for the sake of a solo career. Because of his star power,
however, his solo foray might have had other Journey members nervous, so that THEY started armoring up.
sensitized, they might have begun perceiving Perry's (hurt-induced) testing/provocation not as a cry for help,
but merely as the abusive affectations of a prima donna.

With both sides armored up, neither side willing to expose a vulnerability, the testing/provocation can
ratchet upwards into insults of a deeply personal, and nigh-unforgivable nature. The relationship is dead
at that point, and all that is left is protecing pride or avoiding guilt. Sides set things up so that the other party
loses face or gets blamed for the breakup.

Was Perry the victim here? I'll say yes, he probably was the victim first.
But insofar as that "crack the stone" stuff is concerned... that's to me, a setup to avoid guilt.
An u.nreasonable demand, framed to look like its principled, and designed to force Neal into
pulling the trigger and being the bad guy who fired The Voice.

The relationship ended when the insecurities pushed the testing/provocation too far.

That can all heal over time as parties remember how it once was, and forgive.
Problem is, while things can thus be restored emotionally, a musical restoration remains difficult.
The damage to Perry's voice is there, from Journey's catalog and from age, and unless the band
were to correct the very thing that caused all this hurt, seriously toning down the set/schedule to
protect Perry's voice, it's likely not feasible.


The wounded heart, and the wounded body.
If only one can be saved, which is more important?


There's the plot, pitch, whatever...
Think HBO's writers mght have a go at it?


JM2, YMMV, TANSTAAFL,
wech.

Wech,
Everything you just said is very insightful and spot on, however, it is a separate issue from the one I addressed in your original post. I was dealing with your assertion that the name Journey predates Perry. Your latest, insightful, post doesn't negate my point however.

I believe the breakup as a whole was about what you say, but moving on using the Journey name was still about money. Neal said this himself on the VH1 BTM special ("this is how I make my living and I need to pay the bills"). Neal didn't want to crack the stone any more than Perry wanted it cracked. His years of waiting is proof of that. I have no doubt that if money wasn't an issue, Neal wouldn't have been as needy and he would have started another band or revisited Bad English or something. Maybe Soul Sirkus would have started much earlier with Sammy Hagar on vox? Who knows.

Neal wanted to tour the Journey name because he saw the fan base was still there (TBF sans tour went platinum). He knew that's where the bucks were and he had a huge hand in building that fan base. To a lesser degree, I think he also wanted to be out there in front of large crowds again. In this day and age, starting a new melodic rock band has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. Unless he got press as part of a supergroup, he'd be the opening act at best. But if money wasn't an issue, I think he would have left Journey alone. Doesn't negate what you said at all. The two go hand in hand.

[Barb]

Ok I think I see what you're saying. Steve is right because, while he did go out on his own and play Journey music he didn't do it with the Journey name. It sounds like he might possibly have come back if Neal hadn't gone on with the Journey name. And Neal doesn't get that or chooses to ignore the meaning.

Therein lies the dilemma. Steve Perry didn't need to use the Journey name. He is Steve fucking Perry. Everyone knows who he is. The singer is the recognizable guy in the band. I would love to ask Neal if he would have felt entitled to use the Journey name if he was not the founding member. I think he had every right to use the name. While I understand Perry's position on this, I think he was wrong.

[STORY_TELLER]

Ok I think I see what you're saying. Steve is right because, while he did go out on his own and play Journey music he didn't do it with the Journey name. It sounds like he might possibly have come back if Neal hadn't gone on with the Journey name. And Neal doesn't get that or chooses to ignore the meaning.

Therein lies the dilemma. Steve Perry didn't need to use the Journey name. He is Steve fucking Perry. Everyone knows who he is. The singer is the recognizable guy in the band. I would love to ask Neal if he would have felt entitled to use the Journey name if he was not the founding member. I think he had every right to use the name. While I understand Perry's position on this, I think he was wrong.

I don't think Perry was was wrong at all. Journey didn't find success without him and he had a huge influence on the band's music. To this day they are repeating what they were with Perry and hiring vocalists who can mimic his vocal presence. I'd be plenty pissed if I were him, but at the same time, I couldn't blame Neal and Jon for doing what they had to do.

I just think Neal didn't have a choice. His financial back was against the wall and he had a huge hand in building the Journey name just as Perry did. As we both have stated, Perry can tour solo and people will go see him. Neal can't put his name on a ticket and get the same audience. I think it's irrelevant that Neal was the founding member. The band Neal founded isn't the band that we became fans of. The direction he was going in before Perry isn't what we are fans of. It's doubtful Journey would have been more than a blip in the history of rock if not for the introduction of Perry. Even Neal credits Journey's success to Perry, but that doesn't negate the fact that they all worked hard to build the fan base of the Perry fronted Journey.

If Neal could have afforded artistic integrity I don't think he would have cracked the stone. But the world isn't ideal and life happens. Oh well. Perry could always return if he wanted to. He doesn't want to.

[ProgRocker53]

There is no "stone" It is a bunch of musicians trying to show how they feel through there music.Egos and attitudes screw up the music, I like the new tunes, plain and simple .Fuck the past, move on .

Right on man.

Dude you've been turning a big corner lately.

[STORY_TELLER]

There is no "stone" It is a bunch of musicians trying to show how they feel through there music.Egos and attitudes screw up the music, I like the new tunes, plain and simple .Fuck the past, move on .

Right on man.

Dude you've been turning a big corner lately.

Nah. Someone else is using his account.

[Brigadier]

Journey didn't find success without him and he had a huge influence on the band's music.

And let's not forget that Perry had the enviable job of fixing turkey coops until Herbert called him. They both benefitted from him joining the band. But Journey DID exist before Perry, and it is pretty damn arrogant to have the attitude he does.

I am glad Neal moved on. I am glad that they did Arrival, and now Revelation. IMHO, they sound alot better than they would if Perry were on them. Steve's voice and his slurring the words together was getting pretty bad on ROR.

And Perry is a grown man. He could have asked for the touring to be scaled back during the 80's. But like he has admitted, fame was his life. Someone with priorities so far outta whack isn't going to do the right thing anyway.

I am just worried Neal and Co. are going to fry Arnel's voice in one tour. He is 40 YO after all.

[Barb]

This has nothing to do with anything, but if anyone had told me back in 1998 that 10 years from then we'd STILL be having this dicussion I would have laughed my ass off. And here we are, 10 years to the month after Augeri's first show with Journey STILL arguing about the same damned thing.

[Rhiannon]

This has nothing to do with anything, but if anyone had told me back in 1998 that 10 years from then we'd STILL be having this dicussion I would have laughed my ass off. And here we are, 10 years to the month after Augeri's first show with Journey STILL arguing about the same damned thing.

Progress is highly overrated.

[Arkansas]

This has nothing to do with anything, but if anyone had told me back in 1998 that 10 years from then we'd STILL be having this dicussion I would have laughed my ass off. And here we are, 10 years to the month after Augeri's first show with Journey STILL arguing about the same damned thing.

Progress is highly overrated.

Apparently, our hipocracy knows no boundaries.
- paraphrased from Tombstone's 'Doc Holliday'.


later~

[Liquid_Drummer]

I think Perry looked at his voice in much the same way men think about their penis size. He couldnt admit that his voice (penis to him) was having issues and kept pushing until he broke his voice (penis). I have never heard him say anywhere that his voice is damaged just as I have never heard a man admit publicly that his dick is broken...

He has too much pride. I will always believe that the only reason Perry is not in the band is because he can not do it anymore and he will not admit that his vocal penis is limp.... That is also the reason for no new album in 14 years .. He knows for an album to move you have to tour. He cant handle a tour and the early cancellation of the FTLOSM tour was all the proof I needed. I am sure many of you have heard boots of that tour.. He sounds like shit on the old material plain and simple even tuned down. What really alerted me that something was wrong is when the new FTLOSM material was also tuned down and he was ducking the chorus in You Better Wait. How long was the tour after the album was cut ? a few months maybe...

His smooth tenor became a forced raspy baritone. Shit, he sounds like a fucking old mob guy when he laughs now. You can hear that his vocal cords are "toast". Nodes, who knows... New material from him is doubtful as there will be no tour.. I would bet the farm on it.

[Barb]

his vocal penis is limp....

What an analogy!

[Rip Rokken]

Alot of fan fighting would have been avoided if they would have just called it Journey Revisited, Renewed, Reborn, Rehashed , or something.

Perry didn't call Strange Medicine Journey "anythin", even though he did sing some of the songs. Sorry Neal, it aint' the same thing. You were the stone cracker, dude, not Perry.

[Rhiannon]

Yay!!!

[Rip Rokken]

Yay!!!

Hey, Rhi - complete the following sentence to go along with that smiley:

"The best part of waking up, is ________________________ !"

[Rhiannon]

Hey, Rhi - complete the following sentence to go along with that smiley:

"The best part of waking up, is ________________________ !"

"...shutting the f*ck up!"

[Rip Rokken]

Hey, Rhi - complete the following sentence to go along with that smiley:

"The best part of waking up, is ________________________ !"

"...shutting the f*ck up!"

LOL!!!

[SF-Dano]

I understand that the Journey catalog is quite a load to handle vocally. That being said, did Journey really tour that much more than the other big bands of 80s? If I recall correctly, several bands used to go on tour for a year to two in support of their records. I definately recall seeing a band indoors in the winter and then outdoors during the summer and it was the same tour in support of the same release. Hell, I recall some foreign bands (ie. Scorpions, Iron Maiden) used to travel the world over a couple times on a single tour. So I ask, was Journey's touring schedule that much more grueling than other bands of that time? Or was it just the fact that Perry set the bar so high with his vocals that it could not be sustained over a long period of time?

[Rick]

I understand that the Journey catalog is quite a load to handle vocally. That being said, did Journey really tour that much more than the other big bands of 80s? If I recall correctly, several bands used to go on tour for a year to two in support of their records. I definately recall seeing a band indoors in the winter and then outdoors during the summer and it was the same tour in support of the same release. Hell, I recall some foreign bands (ie. Scorpions, Iron Maiden) used to travel the world over a couple times on a single tour. So I ask, was Journey's touring schedule that much more grueling than other bands of that time? Or was it just the fact that Perry set the bar so high with his vocals that it could not be sustained over a long period of time?

No, the schedule wasn't, but I think the catalog is.

[SF-Dano]

I understand that the Journey catalog is quite a load to handle vocally. That being said, did Journey really tour that much more than the other big bands of 80s? If I recall correctly, several bands used to go on tour for a year to two in support of their records. I definately recall seeing a band indoors in the winter and then outdoors during the summer and it was the same tour in support of the same release. Hell, I recall some foreign bands (ie. Scorpions, Iron Maiden) used to travel the world over a couple times on a single tour. So I ask, was Journey's touring schedule that much more grueling than other bands of that time? Or was it just the fact that Perry set the bar so high with his vocals that it could not be sustained over a long period of time?

No, the schedule wasn't, but I think the catalog is.

I agree. That is why I don't understand why Neal and Co. get blamed so much for "taking Journey on these super long tours". They were not touring any more than other big bands of the day (and less than some). Journey even catches shit from people here today for touring aprox. 6 months a year now. Compare that to the 80s and it is really like they are on mini tours now.