Trial By Fire or Revelation

by **tammy** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:04 am

Love them both! But, if I HAD to chose, it would definitely be TBF.

by **Hollywood** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:42 am

It’s always tough to compare albums from the same artists or different artists. Good albums have their own life and they flow and move differently. Some records are too long some are too short or heavy with slow songs or heavy with upbeat stuff. There are so many elements that play into a discussion like this, but the question asked is cut and dry. How do you give a cut and dry answer to a question like this?

For me I tend to get into albums more when I can here the songs live and if they can grab me live. This in-turn helps the other songs on the record. TBF suffers from never being performed live; it’s too long, and too slow for a steady rotation in my play list. That being said, I love every minute of it every time I listen to it.

Revelation has been amazing as I have listened to it, and I had the pleasure of seeing the Vegas show to see some of the songs performed live. Never Walk Away and AATY struck me as Journey songs immediately. This feels like a Journey record, like Arrival, and of course all of the Perry records. And like Arrival, I think this record will live on, but only time will tell.

For me the Perry versus the replacement singers holds no bearing. I love Perry and love what he brought to the band and loved his solo records and miss his music dearly. I wish he would make music again as a solo artist.

But in the end: I want Journey as an active band. Steve Perry cannot be an active member even if he wanted to be. His voice cannot handle the strain of recording and performing these songs on tour. It’s not his fault and he’s done nothing wrong. He’s just gotten older like all of us. Without replacement singer there would be no Journey and that would be a shame. Neal, Jon, Ross, and Deen have so much to give musically and enjoy what they do and need a creative vehicle and Journey is their creative vehicle. Too many people refer to Journey as a nostalgia act. They had so many great records and hits that you can’t ignore the catalog, but they have released 3 records and an EP since 2000 and they perform these songs in the set within reason.

There are nostalgia band like Van Halen who have recorded a grand total of 4 songs in 14 years and performed none of them live. REO has one record and two songs on the ballads collection in 12 years and never really perform them. Styx has one record in 9 years and a whole bunch of live stuff, but I won’t go see them unless it’s cheap and convenient. They need to make new music with this lineup or bring back Dennis or pack it in. It’s okay to lean on your old material, but you need new stuff to keep the juices flowing or it becomes flat and it gives the tourist type of fans a time to get beer or go to the head. Toad the Wet Sprocket tour every year, but there has been no new material in 10 years. This kind of behavior sucks.

Sorry got off on a rant there.

Back to the point; to answer the question in a cut and dry manner……… Revelation…….. right now……… but who knows in year or more…….

by **annie89509** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:58 am

Interesting to read everyone's comments. I have said, too, that both TBF and Arrival suffered from having too many songs. If they had trimmed it down to 10 or 11 "best" songs, it would rank right up there among Journey's best. I guess I'm one of the few that can listen to TBF from start to finish without skipping a beat. Arrival does drag on after the 1st 6 songs or so. I enjoy Generations more, because each song is different, and SA showed his true style/voice with this record.

Arnel is a remarkable singer and he sang the songs with true gusto. I can't help but think of Revelation as a cookie-cutter attempt "to get back to the legacy sound,." though. Maybe their next record with Arnel will take us somewhere

by **bru87tr** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:08 am

Revelation

by **carleysdad** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:23 am

My vote is for Revelation. Although I don't think Revelation is a great album, it's much better than TBF. TBF had way too many ballads and the "rockers" (which weren't really rockers) sucked.

by **journeybabe** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:33 am

Revelation - I can listen to entirely without skipping a song.

by **Rick** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:39 am

belar wrote:No love for Still She Cries?

The guitar intro is great, but Perry's two first lines drive me nuts. I like the melody though. Overall, I skip it.

"If He Should Break Your Heart" is a pretty good song though.

The whole album is just too soft for me.

by **annie89509** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:55 am

Sorry, a little off-topic, I wanted to comment on some poster statements that TBF had vocal enhancements done to it. Neal has been on record as saying that TBF was done with "very little overdubs. We basically played live, Steve sang live." And, "When You Love a Woman was done in 1 take."

All 3 records, TBF-Arrival-Revelation, have KS as producer. He has a lush/grandiose style of presentation that Journey obviously likes to show in their music. If there were "studio hokus pokus" done to TBF, I'm most certain it was used on Arrival and Revelation, too. Of course, I am not a studio insider or student of music, so what do I know?

by **Onestepper** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:00 am

annie89509 wrote:Sorry, a little off-topic, I wanted to comment on some poster statements that TBF had vocal enhancements done to it. Neal has been on record as saying that TBF was done with "very little overdubs. We basically played live, Steve sang live." And, "When You Love a Woman was done in 1 take."

All 3 records, TBF-Arrival-Revelation, have KS as producer. He has a lush/grandiose style of presentation that Journey obviously likes to show in their music. If there were "studio hokus pokus" done to TBF, I'm most certain it was used on Arrival and Revelation, too. Of course, I am not a studio insider or student of music, so what do I know?

I thought SP said that the video for WYLAW was done in one take. Never heard anyone ever say the actual recording was a one take affair.

by **annie89509** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:11 am

No, it is Neal. It is on the funny TBF satellite radio promo tape that Journey fans circulate and trade. Sometimes it is labeled as the "Thanksgiving Turkey promos" or "the Elmo tape". Funny, risque stuff with Steve/Neal/Jon talking and giggling with radio people across the country promoting the new release of TBF. You know, when they got along, before all the shit hit the fan.

by **Sarah** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:15 am

Tough choice, since TBF has some songs I will not listen to, and Revelation is at least listenable throughout. But since I really like more than one song on TBF I'll choose it.

by **Aaron** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

Revelation by far. Trial by Fire still pisses me off when I spin it.

by **ProgRocker53** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am

TBF vs. REV as-is... Revelation by far.

However, if you put Revelation up against my modified TBF playlist... TBF by a carlength.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Can't Tame the Lion
8. Colors of the Spirit
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial by Fire

by **journey062393** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 am

Rhiannon wrote:
journey062393 wrote:You mean there isnt anything you like about the remaining 11 tracks? Come on! Humor me, just one more song in there somewhere? Trial By Fire? Easy to Fall? Or maybe the hidden track, 'Baby I'm a Leavin' You', which I personally wish would have remained hidden! I have to say.....so far.....I like Trial By Fire more than Revelations. However, I didnt like it that much when i first bought it. Only after playing it over and over did i really like it. And I do like Revelations a lot too. I only skip over FITHL usually, and sometimes the Journey Revelation. Not one of my favorite instrumentals of Neal.

Anything beyond track 5, and this is what I have to hear to recover...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P-9hrD_dBgY

Thanks for the link. It helps me to picture all the gnashing you're doing :lol:

by **finalfight** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:20 am

ProgRocker53 wrote:TBF vs. REV as-is... Revelation by far.

However, if you put Revelation up against my modified TBF playlist... TBF by a carlength.

1. Message of Love
2. One More
3. When You Love A Woman
4. If He Should Break Your Heart
5. Forever in Blue
6. Still She Cries
7. Can't Tame the Lion
8. Colors of the Spirit
9. I Can See It In Your Eyes
10. Easy to Fall
11. Trial by Fire

The inclusion of One More would be enough for me to dismiss the entire album out of hand. Thank God for playlists!

by **ProgRocker53** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:22 am

What's wrong with One More?

It's one of my personal top 5 favorite Journey songs... which, for the record, are Of a Lifetime, One More, Into Your Arms, Faith in the Heartland, and Winds of March.

by **Rhiannon** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:23 am

journey062393 wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:Anything beyond track 5, and this is what I have to hear to recover...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P-9hrD_dBgY

Thanks for the link. It helps me to picture all the gnashing you're doing

Two more good ones:

The Hand That Feeds -- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kk7SKP4PJ2w

March of the Pigs -- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bCjpyPqwXNA

(<---Has a slight "bad boy" crush on Trent Reznor... :oops:

)

by **finalfight** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:28 am

ProgRocker53 wrote:What's wrong with One More?

It's one of my personal top 5 favorite Journey songs... which, for the record, are Of a Lifetime, One More, Into Your Arms, Faith in the Heartland, and Winds of March.

I just can't beyond the lyrical cheese. I guess you could say that the song just grates on me! :lol:

by **Matthew** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:33 am

Rick wrote:
belar wrote:No love for Still She Cries?

The guitar intro is great, but Perry's two first lines drive me nuts. I like the melody though. Overall, I skip it.

"If He Should Break Your Heart" is a pretty good song though.

The whole album is just too soft for me.

Really? I think TBF is actually the heavier of the two records. And it also has the advantage of sounding like Journey pretty much all the way through whereas Revelation sounds like a tribute album to about ten different acts....

by **Sarah** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:34 am

ProgRocker53 wrote:What's wrong with One More?

It's one of my personal top 5 favorite Journey songs... which, for the record, are Of a Lifetime, One More, Into Your Arms, Faith in the Heartland, and Winds of March.

I hate One More too. I can't really say why.

by **Matthew** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:39 am

ProgRocker53 wrote:What's wrong with One More?

It's one of my personal top 5 favorite Journey songs... which, for the record, are Of a Lifetime, One More, Into Your Arms, Faith in the Heartland, and Winds of March.

Into Your Arms Prog? Good track..but all-time Journey Top 5 seems a bit perverse don't you think?

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:41 am

"Revelation" is a more cohesive album, but just because I wear out the skip button on TBF doesn't mean it's worse.
Taken on their own individual merits, all the songs on TBF are strong.
It's just that the track listing is too long and and poorly paced.

I'm tempted to give it to TBF, if for no other reason than having the better singer, but as it stands, Revelation is the stronger overall disc.

by **Matthew** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:48 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:It's just that the track listing is too long and and poorly paced.

.

This is true....

Also - it's good to hear Cain's 80s-style synths making a comeback on Revelation....

by **journey062393** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:57 am

Rhiannon wrote:
journey062393 wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:Anything beyond track 5, and this is what I have to hear to recover...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P-9hrD_dBgY

Thanks for the link. It helps me to picture all the gnashing you're doing

Two more good ones:

The Hand That Feeds -- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kk7SKP4PJ2w

March of the Pigs -- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bCjpyPqwXNA

(<---Has a slight "bad boy" crush on Trent Reznor... )

Obviously! That's cool, everybodys got one of those(not that i have a badboy crush on anyone, I meant badgirl :lol:

) Well now i have some new material for the next time I play Generations. I've always liked The Hand That Feeds, although I've never been a huge fan of some of NIN more popular songs.

by **journey062393** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:00 am

Sarah wrote:
ProgRocker53 wrote:What's wrong with One More?

It's one of my personal top 5 favorite Journey songs... which, for the record, are Of a Lifetime, One More, Into Your Arms, Faith in the Heartland, and Winds of March.

I hate One More too. I can't really say why.

I like One More. I like the change in tempo throughout the song, but yet it flows so smoothly. Especially love the ending solo from Neal and the shredding. Ahh the shredding!

by **Rick** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:03 am

Sarah wrote:
ProgRocker53 wrote:What's wrong with One More?

It's one of my personal top 5 favorite Journey songs... which, for the record, are Of a Lifetime, One More, Into Your Arms, Faith in the Heartland, and Winds of March.

I hate One More too. I can't really say why.

Sure you can, we won't tell anyone. :lol:

by **Don** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:15 am

annie89509 wrote:Sorry, a little off-topic, I wanted to comment on some poster statements that TBF had vocal enhancements done to it. Neal has been on record as saying that TBF was done with "very little overdubs. We basically played live, Steve sang live." And, "When You Love a Woman was done in 1 take."

All 3 records, TBF-Arrival-Revelation, have KS as producer. He has a lush/grandiose style of presentation that Journey obviously likes to show in their music. If there were "studio hokus pokus" done to TBF, I'm most certain it was used on Arrival and Revelation, too. Of course, I am not a studio insider or student of music, so what do I know?

Actually I Agree that all the albums Kevin Produces would probably have overdubs for the backing vocals and certain instrumentation even on the Rush and Iron Maiden stuff he has produced. To me TBF seems to have more of it than Revelation. As I stated I believe TBF is better Sonically than Revelation but I believe Revelations songs are better suited for live performances. Even the live Captured album has overdubs. It's the nature of the business.

by **Saint John** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:17 am

Gunbot wrote:I believe Revelations songs are better suited for live performances.

Especially when you have a singer willing to sing them live.

by **Matthew** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:21 am

Saint John wrote:
Gunbot wrote:I believe Revelations songs are better suited for live performances.

Especially when you have a singer willing to sing them live.

...a singer who is twenty years younger and with everything to prove....

by **mikemarrs** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:21 pm

trial by fire had some good stuff but they were smart to cut down on the quantity of songs this time so revelation definitely benefits from not having fifteen or sixteen songs and they put ten or eleven good songs instead of a bunch of filler just to get a bunch of songs on one disc.

MR

Trial By Fire or Revelation

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