OT - WSJ - "The Obama We Don't Know"

Voted Worlds #1 Most Loonatic Fanbase

Moderator: Andrew

Re: how about this?

Postby sandiglam » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:53 pm

rubyglare wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
rubyglare wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html Wednesday, December 26, 2001

* E-Mail
* Respond
* Print

* Share:
o Digg
o Facebook
o StumbleUpon
o MySpace
o

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."

Uh, what does Osama have to do with Obama? (Outside of an introduction from Ted Kennedy :lol: )


I thought he was a terrorist.....& I thought it mattered a little, him being declared dead & all.......I guess not :(


I am in agreement with the other poster. This doesn't matter. This is a news story from three months after 9/11. Osama Bin Laden has made fifteen television appearances since then talking about stuff that has happened in the last few years. He obviously wasn't dead then, and probably still isn't dead now, so it really doesn't matter.

Sandiglam
If it don't shock, it don't rock, we'll be lipstick junkiez till the end of time!!!
sandiglam
Radio Waves
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 am
Location: Missouri

Re: how about this?

Postby Eric » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:00 am

Obama is a socialist. The U.S.A. is not a socialistic country.
Eric
Eric
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3934
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:51 am

Re: how about this?

Postby sandiglam » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:17 am

Eric wrote:Obama is a socialist. The U.S.A. is not a socialistic country.


This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Claiming Obama is a socialist negates anything else you might want to say later on. Obviously you are clueless. Wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make a person a socialist. If you want to debate, let's debate, but EDUCATE yourself before you start spouting nonsense.

Sandiglam
If it don't shock, it don't rock, we'll be lipstick junkiez till the end of time!!!
sandiglam
Radio Waves
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 am
Location: Missouri

Re: how about this?

Postby conversationpc » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:34 am

sandiglam wrote:
Eric wrote:Obama is a socialist. The U.S.A. is not a socialistic country.


This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Claiming Obama is a socialist negates anything else you might want to say later on. Obviously you are clueless. Wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make a person a socialist. If you want to debate, let's debate, but EDUCATE yourself before you start spouting nonsense.

Sandiglam


No, wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make him a socialist. Supporting bigger government, higher taxes, socialized medicine, etc., does.
My blog = Dave's Dominion
User avatar
conversationpc
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 17830
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:53 am
Location: Slightly south of sanity...

Re: how about this?

Postby sandiglam » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:41 am

conversationpc wrote:
sandiglam wrote:
Eric wrote:Obama is a socialist. The U.S.A. is not a socialistic country.


This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Claiming Obama is a socialist negates anything else you might want to say later on. Obviously you are clueless. Wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make a person a socialist. If you want to debate, let's debate, but EDUCATE yourself before you start spouting nonsense.

Sandiglam


No, wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make him a socialist. Supporting bigger government, higher taxes, socialized medicine, etc., does.


We'll pick this up after you go and learn a bit about true socialism. It's become far too convenient for the right to tag liberals with the "socialist" tag for standing up for the exact things the constitution guarantees. Oh, wait a minute -- that's right. The right wing of our country doesn't care much about the Constitution. Maybe that's why those of us who believe in it are considered socialists.

Once again, learn about true socialism, and it will be just as obvious to you as it is to everyone who understands what is going on that Obama is far from a socialist. Until then, don't be casting stones.

For the record, the world is full of countries that pay MUCH higher taxes than we do, have socialized medicine, and have much bigger government than us -- and a funny thing -- Only one or two out of about 25 are considered socialist governments. The ignorance of those ripping on Obama is truly astonishing. Argue his policies if you want, but throwing around one liners like "He's a socialist" just make you look like an idiot.

Sandiglam
If it don't shock, it don't rock, we'll be lipstick junkiez till the end of time!!!
sandiglam
Radio Waves
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 am
Location: Missouri

Postby classicstyxfan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:06 am

This should bring a smile to McCain supporters / Obama Haters...all I can say to her and others with similar views is, "be careful what you wish for....."

It goes to show that many Hillary supporters did not back her based on her ideals, but due to her sexual organs.


http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=762052
Last edited by classicstyxfan on Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
classicstyxfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 9:28 am

Re: how about this?

Postby conversationpc » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:25 am

sandiglam wrote:We'll pick this up after you go and learn a bit about true socialism. It's become far too convenient for the right to tag liberals with the "socialist" tag for standing up for the exact things the constitution guarantees. Oh, wait a minute -- that's right. The right wing of our country doesn't care much about the Constitution. Maybe that's why those of us who believe in it are considered socialists.

Once again, learn about true socialism, and it will be just as obvious to you as it is to everyone who understands what is going on that Obama is far from a socialist. Until then, don't be casting stones.

For the record, the world is full of countries that pay MUCH higher taxes than we do, have socialized medicine, and have much bigger government than us -- and a funny thing -- Only one or two out of about 25 are considered socialist governments. The ignorance of those ripping on Obama is truly astonishing. Argue his policies if you want, but throwing around one liners like "He's a socialist" just make you look like an idiot.

Sandiglam


It does fit a loose definition of Socialism. You're right in that it doesn't fit the strict definition of socialism as it relates to our economic system. However, the term as I am using it refers to a broader definition where wealth is subject to control by the coercive power of the government. This is what Obama wants to do by raising taxes and distributing it to the poor or "less fortunate". This is undeniable. Even Michelle Obama has said that others will have to give up part of their pie so that the poor can have more. That IS socialism. I'm not using the term as a pejorative more than I'm using it as an accurate definition of what Obama stands for. That Obama has such huge support in truly socialist countries like many of those in Europe isn't an anomaly.
My blog = Dave's Dominion
User avatar
conversationpc
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 17830
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:53 am
Location: Slightly south of sanity...

Postby classicstyxfan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:54 am

So Dave, by your definition, the Entire Democratic Party should re-name itself the Socialist Party, and any entitlement changes ( except for reduction or cutting of programs ) is Socialist ?

If so, we've been a socialistic Country at least since FDR was president.
User avatar
classicstyxfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 9:28 am

Re: how about this?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:54 am

sandiglam wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
sandiglam wrote:
Eric wrote:Obama is a socialist. The U.S.A. is not a socialistic country.


This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Claiming Obama is a socialist negates anything else you might want to say later on. Obviously you are clueless. Wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make a person a socialist. If you want to debate, let's debate, but EDUCATE yourself before you start spouting nonsense.

Sandiglam


No, wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make him a socialist. Supporting bigger government, higher taxes, socialized medicine, etc., does.


We'll pick this up after you go and learn a bit about true socialism. It's become far too convenient for the right to tag liberals with the "socialist" tag for standing up for the exact things the constitution guarantees. Oh, wait a minute -- that's right. The right wing of our country doesn't care much about the Constitution. Maybe that's why those of us who believe in it are considered socialists.

Once again, learn about true socialism, and it will be just as obvious to you as it is to everyone who understands what is going on that Obama is far from a socialist. Until then, don't be casting stones.

For the record, the world is full of countries that pay MUCH higher taxes than we do, have socialized medicine, and have much bigger government than us -- and a funny thing -- Only one or two out of about 25 are considered socialist governments. The ignorance of those ripping on Obama is truly astonishing. Argue his policies if you want, but throwing around one liners like "He's a socialist" just make you look like an idiot.

Sandiglam


They've been doing this since the age of Teddy Roosevelt when he dared argue for a living wage.
Ignore them.
Red baiting and its modern offshoot, Islamophobia, are the only hand they have to play.
If Conservativism could truly prevail in the marketplace of ideas, they wouldn't have to rely on the mendacious likes of Limbaugh to keep the party intact.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 16056
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: how about this?

Postby Eric » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:13 am

sandiglam wrote:
Eric wrote:Obama is a socialist. The U.S.A. is not a socialistic country.


This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Claiming Obama is a socialist negates anything else you might want to say later on. Obviously you are clueless. Wanting to help those that are less fortunate doesn't make a person a socialist. If you want to debate, let's debate, but EDUCATE yourself before you start spouting nonsense.

Sandiglam


Socialstic...shall we say?

Educate myself??? I know both candidates very well. Care to discuss any issue in particular?

Lets talk about...retirement:. Below is my plan. Whats yours? Let me guess.....make sure everybody is "okay" no matter how hard they work.


Social Security is not sustainable, and a plan must be enacted now to lessen the negative impact of its inevitable demise. When Social Security was started in 1935, the post-Depression climate of our country demanded that such a measure be taken for the overall welfare of our nation. Since then, many things have changed about this country, its citizens, and our way of life, and Social Security itself has been augmented as well. LBJ put Social Security in a general fund that Congress could spend, and Jimmy Carter made it available to immigrants who hadn't contributed. Our country has changed and the program has been altered.

In 1935, the average life expectancy of American citizens was 62 years; today, that figure is 78 years. If you adjust for the infant mortality rate, that number becomes higher and the difference lower, but even five years is significant with regards to this case. The bottom line is that people are taking more out of social security than they put in due to the fact that they are living longer lives. At the very least, the minimum retirement age needs to be increased to help offset this. With the first baby boomers nearing retirement age, and the birth rate dropping, there will only be 2 people working for every 1 within 40 years. The Social Security Board of Trustees states that funds will be exhausted by 2042.

I'm not sure it is clear to enough of us that we need to start taking more responsibility for our own retirement instead of relying on someone to take care of us. Swift decisive action needs to be taken by the government to effectively END Social Security sooner rather than later. A gradual approach must be taken to ensure that a balance is reached between those who are now collecting on the Social Security money they were promised, and the current workforce contributing to a pool that won’t exist when it’s their turn to draw from it. Make no mistake about it - people will get hurt financially, there is no way around that. But I feel the sooner we take action the fewer the people will be hurt, and the impact lessened.

I propose beginning to end Social Security in 2010. Anyone 70+ and retired (and those who are disabled) would draw what they have come to expect until death. Those 60-69 (and those 70+ but not retired) would have to choose whether to retire and get their social security as expected, or take OptionB. Option B would be what the rest of the country would get. Between the years 2015 - 2019 those not on social security as of 2010 would get 50% back of what they put into the program over their working lives (as of the end of 2009). Social Security contributions would decrease 20% each year from 2010 - 2014, completely ending by January 1st 2015. At that point money would start to be returned and no more money will be taken out for the program. On January 1st, 2020 - the program will only be paying the elderly who were retired by 2010. By 2040, the program should be completely ended, just as it would anyway - but with my plan it won't be devastating.

This gradual process allows for those retired now and dependent on income to still get what they need. Partial collections and less interrupted interest next decade should make this mathematically feasible, although the plan may need a little financial help in the 2030's. The OASDI Trust fund currently has 1.378 Trillion dollars. It also will force the rest of us to take retirement into our own hands. It does force a difficult decision for those close to retirement as of 2010, and it does cost those not eligible to retire in 2010 their full share, probably forcing them to work longer than they hoped. But costing that relatively small group some of their retirement is more fair than allowing everyone 35 and under to spend their entire lives contributing to a program that won't exist for them.

I expect jobs to be created by this proposal from those opting to retire to get into the program early and also there to be a boom in the financial advisor industry as a need for retirement specialist will be even greater than it is today.

Lets be proactive and fix this thing right now! I know my plan may have some holes, but I'm hoping someone smarter than me can take this rough idea and run with it.
Eric
Eric
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3934
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:51 am

Postby sandiglam » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:18 am

For the record, the countries in Europe are not socialist countries. Their citizens just consider it a moral obligation for those who have to give to those who don't have. In America, for far too long, we have believed that those who have are priviledged, and those who don't have are just SOL. Thankfully, in most European countries, they believe health care is a right. I do too.

Sandiglam
If it don't shock, it don't rock, we'll be lipstick junkiez till the end of time!!!
sandiglam
Radio Waves
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 am
Location: Missouri

Postby Voyager » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:21 am

Let's face up to it - there is still a lot of bigotry and racism in the USA, and it is showing its ugly head in this presidential race. Just the other day one of my employees said, "Hey, did you know Obama's middle name is Hussein? I would never vote for anyone with a middle name like that." I just rolled my eyes and walked away. Some people will never be able to see through their bigotry. Most of the people who dislike Obama don't have a clue about the issues he stands for... they just grab a silly reason to be against him and run with it. As far as issues go, he pretty much embraces the common Democratic policies.

I don't really care who his pastor is/was, what his color is, or what his middle name is - all I care about are the issues he stands for and the determination that he has to get our country back on the right track. I think he will do a fine job. I just hope some right-wing racist whacko doesn't attempt to assassinate him (which is likely to happen with the first black president).

Okay, now you can send me to the back of the bus.

8)
User avatar
Voyager
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5929
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:23 pm
Location: BumFunk Egypt

Postby sandiglam » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:16 am

Voyager wrote:Let's face up to it - there is still a lot of bigotry and racism in the USA, and it is showing its ugly head in this presidential race. Just the other day one of my employees said, "Hey, did you know Obama's middle name is Hussein? I would never vote for anyone with a middle name like that." I just rolled my eyes and walked away. Some people will never be able to see through their bigotry. Most of the people who dislike Obama don't have a clue about the issues he stands for... they just grab a silly reason to be against him and run with it. As far as issues go, he pretty much embraces the common Democratic policies.

I don't really care who his pastor is/was, what his color is, or what his middle name is - all I care about are the issues he stands for and the determination that he has to get our country back on the right track. I think he will do a fine job. I just hope some right-wing racist whacko doesn't attempt to assassinate him (which is likely to happen with the first black president).

Okay, now you can send me to the back of the bus.

8)


no need to go to the back of the bus -- stand up here in the front, with me -- we are the ones who are right on this one :)
If it don't shock, it don't rock, we'll be lipstick junkiez till the end of time!!!
sandiglam
Radio Waves
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 am
Location: Missouri

Re: how about this?

Postby conversationpc » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:31 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Red baiting and its modern offshoot, Islamophobia, are the only hand they have to play.
If Conservativism could truly prevail in the marketplace of ideas, they wouldn't have to rely on the mendacious likes of Limbaugh to keep the party intact.


Hypocritical comments like this spill out of your trough like the water from my kitchen sink. Care to put that race baiting card back in your hand?
My blog = Dave's Dominion
User avatar
conversationpc
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 17830
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:53 am
Location: Slightly south of sanity...

Re: how about this?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:35 am

conversationpc wrote:Hypocritical comments like this spill out of your trough like the water from my kitchen sink. Care to put that race baiting card back in your hand?


Democrats can win without any element of race coming into play. By and large, they have ignored black voters and taken them as a foregone certainty.
Can you say the same about your party and it's reliance on red-baiting and Islamaphobia?
Beck, Limbaugh, Cunningham...all of these guys can't even last a 3 hour show without doing so.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 16056
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: how about this?

Postby conversationpc » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:50 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Democrats can win without any element of race coming into play. By and large, they have ignored black voters and taken them as a foregone certainty.
Can you say the same about your party and it's reliance on red-baiting and Islamaphobia?
Beck, Limbaugh, Cunningham...all of these guys can't even last a 3 hour show without doing so.


My party? Indiana does not require party affiliation when registering to vote, so I am not registered with a political party and would not do so for ANY party, Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, etc.
My blog = Dave's Dominion
User avatar
conversationpc
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 17830
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:53 am
Location: Slightly south of sanity...

Re: how about this?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:51 am

conversationpc wrote:My party? Indiana does not require party affiliation when registering to vote, so I am not registered with a political party and would not do so for ANY party, Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, etc.


How convenient.
Just like O'Reilly was also an Independent, right? :wink:
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 16056
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: how about this?

Postby conversationpc » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:02 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
conversationpc wrote:My party? Indiana does not require party affiliation when registering to vote, so I am not registered with a political party and would not do so for ANY party, Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, etc.


How convenient.
Just like O'Reilly was also an Independent, right? :wink:


How independent is your voting record or are you a Democratic myrmidon?
My blog = Dave's Dominion
User avatar
conversationpc
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 17830
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:53 am
Location: Slightly south of sanity...

Re: how about this?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:14 am

conversationpc wrote:How independent is your voting record or are you a Democratic myrmidon?


Was Green, then Indep, switched to Dem for Obama.
Considered switching to Repub just to help Ron Paul gunk up the works.
Will prolly switch back to Indep.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 16056
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: how about this?

Postby Eric » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:42 am

In New York you have to be registered to the party to vote in its primaries. I still can't figure out if thats good or bad. Lots of pros and cons.....
Eric
Eric
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3934
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:51 am

Previous

Return to Journey

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests