The Revelation Chart/Sales Thread

[RedWingFan]

Still...Monker in particular definitely has serious egg on his face....

Good...it's covering the pimples and jizz.

How many milliseconds did it take til this response popped in your mind?

[Saint John]

Still...Monker in particular definitely has serious egg on his face....

Good...it's covering the pimples and jizz.

How many milliseconds did it take til this response popped in your mind?

One.

[Monker]

You've got to hand it to Journey. After months of people posting photos of concerts at pig fairs and saying that was all Journey could expect in the future...they've come back fighting. BUT I guess the true test of whether or not Journey's current line-up stands completely on is own merits will come with the next album...which won't have all the GH attached to boost sales. In fact, the album wouldn't have even been stocked had it not been for the songs from the classic era.

Still...Monker in particular definitely has serious egg on his face....

This stuff matters a lot more to some of you then it does to me. However, I never posted pics of fairs and such. I have no interest in seeing a Perry clone perform in any venue, pig fair or Wells Fargo arena. It means nothing to me.

Are the sales impressive for Journey's current state of Jurassic Rock? Sure. But, it won't last. Relying on nostalgia is not a long term plan.

[Monker]

Still...Monker in particular definitely has serious egg on his face....

Good...it's covering the pimples and jizz.

How many milliseconds did it take til this response popped in your mind?

One.

Fuck you SJ. I don't give a damn if Andrew bans me. Your asshole comment was uncalled for.

[Matthew]

This stuff matters a lot more to some of you then it does to me.

It mattered enough to you to post countless dire predictions about Journey's future. And you Monker have been discussing Journey online for longer than any of us.

However, I never posted pics of fairs and such. I have no interest in seeing a Perry clone perform in any venue, pig fair or Wells Fargo arena. It means nothing to me.

Are the sales impressive for Journey's current state of Jurassic Rock? Sure. But, it won't last. Relying on nostalgia is not a long term plan.

And yet you defended the band for doing exactly the same thing - but unsuccessfully - during the Augeri years.

[Saint John]

Still...Monker in particular definitely has serious egg on his face....

Good...it's covering the pimples and jizz.

How many milliseconds did it take til this response popped in your mind?

One.

Fuck you SJ. I don't give a damn if Andrew bans me. Your asshole comment was uncalled for.

Hey there, buddy.

[Monker]

It mattered enough to you to post countless dire predictions about Journey's future.

You are correct...When JSS was in the band I did predict that a member would leave and Journey would not exist within five years. Four more to go.

And you Monker have been discussing Journey online for longer than any of us.

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

And yet you defended the band for doing exactly the same thing - but unsuccessfully - during the Augeri years.

Augeri is not a clone of Perry. Augeri was not cloning Perry's voice on stage before he joined the band. Augeri did not rerecord the 'classic' songs in the studio for release on album. When Augeri was hired the band did not go about saying they were going back to their 'legacy' sound that sold their back catalog. If they had done any of this, I would have been just as against it ias I am today. Journey, to me anyway, is not about nostalgicaly recreating the sounds of the past. That should be for Elvis impersonators, not Journey.

[RedWingFan]

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

JourneyDigest on MySpace
JourneyDigest at Yahoo Groups
Journey Digest homepage

[larryfromnextdoor]

Jurassic Rock?

that was funny..




why cant all you people get along? its just beyond me.. stop cutting each other down.. geesh ..

[Matthew]

You are correct...When JSS was in the band I did predict that a member would leave and Journey would not exist within five years. Four more to go.

You also told us - in this very thread I think - that "it isn't 1983 anymore" and that Journey would never bother the charts again.

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

You've been discussing Journey online on a regular basis since when? 1994? Or 1996? And here you are again tonight. All I'm saying is that this 'matters' just as much to you as it does to any of us and claiming indifference doesn't change the reality that you have been entirely and consistently wrong about this band's future for well over two years now....

Augeri is not a clone of Perry.

He was hired to create the illusion Perry was still in the band. Only a total idiot would claim that Augeri was hired because of his differences to Perry.

Augeri was not cloning Perry's voice on stage before he joined the band.

So what? He did that in the band for nine long years.

Augeri did not rerecord the 'classic' songs in the studio for release on album.

Only because Perry's lawyers had the power to stop him from doing that. And Augeri still made his living singing the classic songs night after night in concert.

When Augeri was hired the band did not go about saying they were going back to their 'legacy' sound that sold their back catalog.

No - they came out with a load of old bullshit about how they wanted to move on...and how the Journey was continuing....despite playing the 1983 set list every night. At least they're being honest about their objectives nowadays...

If they had done any of this, I would have been just as against it ias I am today. Journey, to me anyway, is not about nostalgicaly recreating the sounds of the past. That should be for Elvis impersonators, not Journey.

Er...have you actually attended a Journey concert since Perry left the band? If you had you'd know that the band were making their living from nostalgically recreating the sounds of the past. And meanwhile you were here on the messageboard day after day defending them against the same accusations made by classic Journey fans which you are are now making tonight.

[Monker]

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

JourneyDigest on MySpace
JourneyDigest at Yahoo Groups
Journey Digest homepage

And, when was my last post?

[Matthew]

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

JourneyDigest on MySpace
JourneyDigest at Yahoo Groups
Journey Digest homepage

Exactly....

[Matthew]

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

JourneyDigest on MySpace
JourneyDigest at Yahoo Groups
Journey Digest homepage

And, when was my last post?

Seconds ago....

[Since 78]

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

JourneyDigest on MySpace
JourneyDigest at Yahoo Groups
Journey Digest homepage

And, when was my last post?

Seconds ago....

Good One Sorry!! Carry on!

[Monker]

You also told us - in this very thread I think - that "it isn't 1983 anymore" and that Journey would never bother the charts again.

It wasn't in this thread. It was in the 'prediction' thread. I think I said they would not be in the top 40 and drop off the 100 the next week. So, I was wrong...the reason I even posted was some people saying this album would sell 1 million copies, and crazy stuff like that. Even with how the album is doing, I don't see how they will hit 1 million, they will be lucky to hit 500,000. In fact they are lucky to even hit 100,000 with the way things are with music and this band.

You've been discussing Journey online on a regular basis since when? 1994? Or 1996? And here you are again tonight. All I'm saying is that this 'matters' just as much to you as it does to any of us and claiming indifference doesn't change the reality that you have been entirely and consistently wrong about this band's future for well over two years now....

LOL...you are completely wrong about me. I hardly ever post about Journey ANWHERE any longer. I don't care what happens. I have not read a single article about Journey in months. I don't read the digest. I don't read BT. I don't care enough to know.

As far as right/wrong...Even Dean said I was right and he was was wrong about Journey/JSS. I never bought into it, I never believed it would work, I always believed that somebody would leave the band, and I always had my doubts that JSS would ever record with the band. If you want to talk about right/wrong...almost this entire forum was wrong, even Andrew, and I was right.

He (Augeri) was hired to create the illusion Perry was still in the band.

WRONG. That is what people like you want to believe. If you read what Neal and the rest of the band were saying back then, they wanted to go in a different direction. Neal liked Augeri in Tall Stories as a 'rockier' version of Journey. That was the public spin on this band.

Today, they are a embracing nostalgia and the 'legacy sound'. I totaly disagree with that direction. I always have. It does not interest me in any way.

Only a total idiot would claim that Augeri was hired because of his differences to Perry.

Only a total idiot would think that is what I said.

So what? He did that in the band for nine long years.

No he didn't. Augeri's voice does not sound like Perry's. Only a total idiot would say it does.

Only because Perry's lawyers had the power to stop him from doing that. And Augeri still made his living singing the classic songs night after night in concert.

Until Neal and/or Perry verify the above, that is only speculation. It's irrelevant anyway - the fact is that it did not happen.

No - they came out with a load of old bullshit about how they wanted to move on...and how the Journey was continuing....despite playing the 1983 set list every night. At least their being honest about their objectives nowadays...

I would agree with some of that attitude for the last couple of years with Augeri. But, the fact is they DID mix up Arrival/Red 13 songs, album cuts and different things like the accoustic set, and pre-Perry songs. Saying they performed the 1983 set every night is your own line of critical bullshit.

When this version of the band starts performing an updated 2001 set, are you going to call it bullshit?

Er...have you actually attended a Journey concert since Perry left the band? If you had you'd know that the band were making their living from nostalgically recreating the sounds of the past. And meanwhile you were here on the messageboard day after day defending them against the same accusations made by classic Journey fans which you are are now making tonight.

So, Neal was wrong. It's not about the band. It's all about Perry's voice, or getting somebody as close to that as possible and recreating sounds from 20 - 30yrs ago. If that is what Neal, the band, and the fans care about - fine. I don't.

[Monker]

Irrelevant...especialy since I don't really 'discuss' Journey much any longer.

JourneyDigest on MySpace
JourneyDigest at Yahoo Groups
Journey Digest homepage

And, when was my last post?

Seconds ago....

Liar. I have not posted on those three forums in probably six months.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And yet you defended the band for doing exactly the same thing - but unsuccessfully - during the Augeri years.

That's not accurate.
The band straddled the line between paying homage to the past and forging new ground with Augeri.
Neal and Jon's comments all reflected that.
After the first Arnel press release came out ("legacy sound"), however, it became apparent the band had dropped all pretense of that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As far as right/wrong...Even Dean said I was right and he was was wrong about Journey/JSS. I never bought into it, I never believed it would work, I always believed that somebody would leave the band, and I always had my doubts that JSS would ever record with the band. If you want to talk about right/wrong...almost this entire forum was wrong, even Andrew, and I was right.

Even you came on here and admitted that Jeff exceeded your expectations at the concert you attended, correct?
Your biggest contention at the time was that he simply wouldn't jibe with the band.

[MarcelJordan]

Im probably the only Journey fan here that likes "Let it take you back". Here Journey talks about the past, yet Arnel sounds TOTALLY different from that legacy sound. I think most of us don't really "know" what Neal and Co. direction will be as time passes.

[Monker]

As far as right/wrong...Even Dean said I was right and he was was wrong about Journey/JSS. I never bought into it, I never believed it would work, I always believed that somebody would leave the band, and I always had my doubts that JSS would ever record with the band. If you want to talk about right/wrong...almost this entire forum was wrong, even Andrew, and I was right.

Even you came on here and admitted that Jeff exceeded your expectations at the concert you attended, correct?
Your biggest contention at the time was that he simply wouldn't jibe with the band.

They didn't look right, they didn't sound right, it didn't feel right. JSS gave 200%. But, in the end, Journey did not sound like Journey to me with JSS singing. Journey came off as a band who did not have their shit together. Their set was full of holes with the audience getting lost and taking breaks. Their set seemed muddled together and just did not work. They were not a band I would pay $75/ticket to see. A free concert at a casino, sure.

They were also totaly upstaged by Def Leppard who put on a MUCH more memorable show. THEY were the band who exceded my expecations. They put on the better show, they had a better set, they had the better stage, they had the crowd from beginning to end. Journey had none of that. They made Journey look like they were out of their league.

JSS is a great singer and frontman. He is not somebody I looked at and thought could, or should, be in Journey...even when he was in Journey.

It's like I said, they went from one extreme to the other...somebody who was completely different from Perry (JSS) to somebody who can clone Perry's voice in a tribute band. They need a happy medium...and I don't mean somebody who would be pleased to channel Steve Perry's mother to convince him to rejoin the band.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They didn't look right, they didn't sound right, it didn't feel right. JSS gave 200%. But, in the end, Journey did not sound like Journey to me with JSS singing. Journey came off as a band who did not have their shit together. Their set was full of holes with the audience getting lost and taking breaks. Their set seemed muddled together and just did not work. They were not a band I would pay $75/ticket to see. A free concert at a casino, sure.

They were also totaly upstaged by Def Leppard who put on a MUCH more memorable show. THEY were the band who exceded my expecations. They put on the better show, they had a better set, they had the better stage, they had the crowd from beginning to end. Journey had none of that. They made Journey look like they were out of their league.

JSS is a great singer and frontman. He is not somebody I looked at and thought could, or should, be in Journey...even when he was in Journey.

I now recall you saying Def did upstage them. Mistakenly thought you were in Jeff's court after the show. My bad.

They need a happy medium...and I don't mean somebody who would be pleased to channel Steve Perry's mother to convince him to rejoin the band.

Which is what they had with Augeri when he had his shit together.
To some extent, Arnel is his own man...he stands on his own two feet on many songs on 'Revelation.'
You wouldn't know it from the media blitz that has surrounded the album tho.
Neal and Jon have willingly thrown themselves at the altar of Steve Perry, and minimized their own contributions to the band's sound in the process.
Shameful.

[Matthew]

So, I was wrong...

Thanks Monker. That's all we wanted to hear....

[The_Noble_Cause]

But TNC...they knelt down at that altar in 1987. For nearly ten years they felt unable to move on without Perry and over the last ten years they've tried to create the illusion that he never left.

True enough.
Their subsequent actions may have belied their words, but at least, as fans, we still had words to cling to.
Neal reformed the band in '97 because he awoke one morning to find his guitar singing Journey melodies - spin or not, the pretense for this band continuing has always been that Journey is greater than the sum of its parts. Greater than one voice. With the advent of Arnel, that playbook has been summarily tossed out of an airlock.

If Neal has compromised on his entire reason for reforming the band, he might as well pack up his Les Paul and go home.
As a band, they never had respect, and during the 2000's, commercial success seemed little but a distant memory, but thru the Augeri-era the band and the fans could at least take heart in the idea that the band was (to quote Herbie) "deeper and broader than the other bands in their graduating class."
With the hiring of Arnel, they have vindicated their most fulsome doubters and critics.
No, this is not an attempt to carry on any unfinished rich musical heritage spawned of Santana.
Indeed, after all this time, it was merely a cash grab.

Also - haven't you recently been saying that Revelation is the best Journey album since the Infinity/Evolution/Departure era?

I believe I said it's the most consistent filler-free album since the Rolie days. Nothing groundbreaking, but very, very strong.

So strange to me though...you and Monker and all the other Augeri die-hards.

I'm not an Augeri die-hard. I'm just an intellectually honest Journey (and politial) buff.

Despite overwhelming evidence that Journey have been cynically pursuing the same old 'legacy sound' on the nostalgia circuit for a decade... you make out that this strategy only began shortly after Cain's interview last year. It's like you need this kind of wilful blindness to enjoy Augeri's time with the band.

Again, a total oversimplification.
"Arrival" was overseen with a heavy hand from Sony. The band deviated from the formula where they could. Red 13 showed the band evolving, but as Cain said, without a distributor, they got their asses handed to them. As for "Generations," for better or worse, they didn't totally adhere to the legacy sound there either.

[Matthew]

Monker wrote:


WRONG. That is what people like you want to believe. If you read what Neal and the rest of the band were saying back then, they wanted to go in a different direction. Neal liked Augeri in Tall Stories as a 'rockier' version of Journey. That was the public spin on this band.

Forget the spin...and look at what actually happened. Another soft rock album chock-full of ballads. And the old songs played in exactly the same way as they were in the 1980s. The 'rockiest' Journey album was - and still is - one from the Perry era: Frontiers.

Today, they are a embracing nostalgia and the 'legacy sound'. I totaly disagree with that direction. I always have. It does not interest me in any way.

Again - the new album in is much the same style as previous records and the set-list still heavily weighted toward the early 1980s. Business as usual.

When this version of the band starts performing an updated 2001 set, are you going to call it bullshit?

What do you mean by this Monker? The 2001 set is the same as it is now...give or take one or two new songs. What you're really asking is...when the band play "Higher Place" will you think it's bullshit? (The answer is 'yes'.)

Monker wrote:

They didn't look right, they didn't sound right, it didn't feel right. JSS gave 200%. But, in the end, Journey did not sound like Journey to me with JSS singing. Journey came off as a band who did not have their shit together,

This wasn't the case at all at the London show last year. The band took the roof off the place and the performance had an edge to it that the band had been lacking for years. Okay - you saw them on a bad night early on but by March 2007 Journey were on peak form and for the very first time looked as though they were experimenting with a break away from the 'legacy sound'. You're right - they didn't sound like Perry era Journey but this was a good thing.

But here we have classic Monker. Bitching at the band for not sounding like Journey enough. And then disowning them for trying to emulate their most familiar style.

[Saint John]

But here we have classic Monker. Bitching at the band for not sounding like Journey enough. And then disowning them for trying to emulate their most familiar style.

Perfectly said. Fucker is on both sides of the fence. Bravo, Matty.

[sniper16]

the journey show in cincinnati, is the best selling show they have right now, selling about 400 tickets a week, this show will be close to a sell out by sept.

[Saint John]

As far as right/wrong...Even Dean said I was right and he was was wrong about Journey/JSS. I never bought into it, I never believed it would work, I always believed that somebody would leave the band, and I always had my doubts that JSS would ever record with the band. If you want to talk about right/wrong...almost this entire forum was wrong, even Andrew, and I was right.

Even you came on here and admitted that Jeff exceeded your expectations at the concert you attended, correct?
Your biggest contention at the time was that he simply wouldn't jibe with the band.

They didn't look right, they didn't sound right, it didn't feel right. JSS gave 200%. But, in the end, Journey did not sound like Journey to me with JSS singing. Journey came off as a band who did not have their shit together. Their set was full of holes with the audience getting lost and taking breaks. Their set seemed muddled together and just did not work. They were not a band I would pay $75/ticket to see. A free concert at a casino, sure.

They were also totaly upstaged by Def Leppard who put on a MUCH more memorable show. THEY were the band who exceded my expecations. They put on the better show, they had a better set, they had the better stage, they had the crowd from beginning to end. Journey had none of that. They made Journey look like they were out of their league.

JSS is a great singer and frontman. He is not somebody I looked at and thought could, or should, be in Journey...even when he was in Journey.

It's like I said, they went from one extreme to the other...somebody who was completely different from Perry (JSS) to somebody who can clone Perry's voice in a tribute band. They need a happy medium...and I don't mean somebody who would be pleased to channel Steve Perry's mother to convince him to rejoin the band.

Agreed! Except that I think when Arnel is singing in his his own voice, like on Revelation, he is that "happy medium."

[sniper16]

some points to ponder
JSS was great live- but if you sit back, listen to soul sirkus-and lost, he really didnt fit for journey
steve a was a happy medium - i love arrivial
whats wrong with a band trying to find someone who sounds like the voice of thier success.
van halen is about the only band that could go in a totally different direction, abandon thier past(almost)
but remember sammy had a pretty big following to bring to the table.
compare it to paul rodgers joining foreigner, then anly preforming the new stuff plus 3 old songs.

[Red13JoePa]

Augeri is not a clone of Perry. Augeri was not cloning Perry's voice on stage before he joined the band. Augeri did not rerecord the 'classic' songs in the studio for release on album. When Augeri was hired the band did not go about saying they were going back to their 'legacy' sound that sold their back catalog.

Correct.
Of course he sounded like perry, but less so than Pineda, Hunsicker or even Castronovo.

Good seeing Monker back, too.

[Matthew]

True enough.
Their subsequent actions may have belied their words, but at least, as fans, we still had words to cling to.
Neal reformed the band in '97 because he awoke one morning to find his guitar singing Journey melodies - spin or not, the pretense for this band continuing has always been that Journey is greater than the sum of its parts. Greater than one voice. With the advent of Arnel, that playbook has been summarily tossed out of an airlock.

TNC - I don't doubt that Schon had a dream of taking Journey beyond the achievements of his partnership with Perry and I don't doubt that Cain too still had high-standards regarding the Journey name (which he clearly displayed in interviews during the late 1980s). But that 1997 playbook was thrown out the moment they hired Augeri. I am - genuinely - amazed that you can't see this. And having dusted down that playbook when JSS joined they threw it right back out the window out again eight months later.

If Neal has compromised on his entire reason for reforming the band, he might as well pack up his Les Paul and go home.

Again - I just can't believe you're coming around to this possibility only now. Surely anyone who has been even vaguely following this band knows that the purity of whatever dream he had eleven years ago has become a little sullied....

As a band, they never had respect, and during the 2000's, commercial success seemed little but a distant memory, but thru the Augeri-era the band and the fans could at least take heart in the idea that the band was (to quote Herbie) "deeper and broader than the other bands in their graduating class."

And now we Journey fans can enjoy the critical respect the band are finally receiving with Arnel in the band. How would have thought that the New York Times and Time Magazine would become friends of the band?

With the hiring of Arnel, they have vindicated their most fulsome doubters and critics.

No - the doubters and critics were on to Journey the moment Augeri was hired. That's why - if you look through the cuttings of his time in the band - words like "clone" and "tribute" and "Journey lite" are never far away. Rightly or wrongly the story has radically changed now....

I'm not an Augeri die-hard. I'm just an intellectually honest Journey (and politial) buff.

Yes - I was wrong about that. After all you were involved in Tape Gate and have often mocked the "wildebeests" at BT...so I'll happily concede that point, TNC.

Again, a total oversimplification.
"Arrival" was overseen with a heavy hand from Sony. The band deviated from the formula where they could. Red 13 showed the band evolving, but as Cain said, without a distributor, they got their asses handed to them.

The trusty old 'blame the industry not the frontman' line of defence. Strange how the industry seems to be working in Journey's interests just fine post-Augeri's departure....

As for "Generations," for better or worse, they didn't totally adhere to the legacy sound there either.

And nor do they on Revelation. I'd say about half the entire album doesn't sound like Perry era Journey. Meatloaf...Survivor...Diane Warren...maybe...but not Journey.