Ever think about this....

[Greg]

Too many to list and not about to call people out. It'll only open up a can of shit.

Like you'd ever be guilty of doing such a thing Dan...lol!

lol...yeah, the same legion of fans (30-50) that were crushed by his dismissal.

Again, I think you're being a bit foolish, but what else is new.

Fine...then we have to take the current articles from GQ, The New York Times and others as gospel, too. Advantage, Arnel.

As what TNC pointed out, I'd much rather take the opinions of those in the music business who have been extremely successful and have been in the business for decades. GQ magazine? Are you gay?

Would have been about as successful as Van Halen III...worse actually.

VH III got their singles played on the radio quite a bit more than Journey (especially in my region) and MTV and VH1 were playing the videos quite often. While III wasn't as successful as previous VH records, it still was no failure.

yeah...the same group with the best selling album ever. Nice example, though!!!

I take that as you have no idea what I'm talking about because that comment makes no sense.

They always do "decently."

The point I'm making is that without the Wal*Mart deal, REO Speedwagon's new album would've been a dud even though it had some great songs on it. Without keen marketing in today's music biz, a record is going to have no chance of survival unless it's some type of hip hop album.

Right after you put the Armageddon act away and quit pretending like we're on the set of The Day After!!!

Who's talking Armageddon? I've simply said the Revelation album has been largely successful because of the Wal*Mart deal. You think it's because of Arnel and that's foolish to think such.

Shall I put on a robe and take you into the confessional instead?

I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were actually gay.

[Saint John]

"You're foolish"..."you're gay." Nice replies.

[Greg]

"You're foolish"..."you're gay." Nice replies.

Figured I'd dumb it down for ya!

So, how's the basement coming along?

[Saint John]

So, how's the basement coming along?

Your mother seems to love it!

[Greg]

So, how's the basement coming along?

Your mother seems to love it!

Like I said, had to dumb things down for ya.

[Tito]

did anyone ever think that maybe JSS fucked up, and journey was just being nice to him and did him a favor and just let him go without saying why, because it was something bad??

It's not right to even speculate about something like that since there's no evidence at all that anything like that happened.

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

[Tito]

That wasn't funny.

I think if you ever laughed at something you would shit yourself,

That's funny. For the record, I'm laughing all the time with this board.

[Behshad]

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

OK So youre suggesting that things we saw happening hour by hour , June 12th of 2007 was all speculations, yet the crap coming from you is the truth backed by your evidence, Saint John? Give it a rest dude,,,,

[Tito]

Jeff made his name more famous during the 1st month with Journey than Arnel has the past 10 months he's been with the band.
And almost every fan who was hoping for a new energized Journey has given up on that. The fan base has remained the same, consisting of people who only like the classic sound. Nothing wrong with that either...

I have to come back to this comment from yesterday. I stayed away from it, in respect of the Soto appreciation thread and day for that matter. I was just going to address the first sentence but I think the second one needs to be addressed too.

First, are you on crack? Pineda's name is more famous now then Soto's has been in the last 25 years. Soto never got that mainstream publicity during his tenure with the band or whole career. You people cried when Soto wasn't mention in articles or got brushed over in media outlets. So, this statement is flat out wrong.

Second, the band is energized. New wasn't and isn't going to work, especially with Soto. The only people that would be energized are the 20 to 40 of you that love Soto and Soto led Journey. The band is fine and Soto is in a better place by everyone's accounts. So, everything is good.

[Tito]

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

OK So youre suggesting that things we saw happening hour by hour , June 12th of 2007 was all speculations, yet the crap coming from you is the truth backed by your evidence, Saint John? Give it a rest dude,,,,

I didn't see anything go down. I just saw a picture edited and a press release. What did you hear or see?

[Behshad]

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

OK So youre suggesting that things we saw happening hour by hour , June 12th of 2007 was all speculations, yet the crap coming from you is the truth backed by your evidence, Saint John? Give it a rest dude,,,,

I didn't see anything go down. I just saw a picture edited and a press release. What did you hear or see?

you didnt even see that. You werent even around.... and we saw and heard more than what you did. What did YOU hear or see that suggests that they made him a sympathetic figure?

[Greg]

Jeff made his name more famous during the 1st month with Journey than Arnel has the past 10 months he's been with the band.
And almost every fan who was hoping for a new energized Journey has given up on that. The fan base has remained the same, consisting of people who only like the classic sound. Nothing wrong with that either...

I have to come back to this comment from yesterday. I stayed away from it, in respect of the Soto appreciation thread and day for that matter. I was just going to address the first sentence but I think the second one needs to be addressed too.

First, are you on crack? Pineda's name is more famous now then Soto's has been in the last 25 years. Soto never got that mainstream publicity during his tenure with the band or whole career. You people cried when Soto wasn't mention in articles or got brushed over in media outlets. So, this statement is flat out wrong.

Second, the band is energized. New wasn't and isn't going to work, especially with Soto. The only people that would be energized are the 20 to 40 of you that love Soto and Soto led Journey. The band is fine and Soto is in a better place by everyone's accounts. So, everything is good.

Famous amongst who? I guarantee you for the most part, America doesn't know who Arnel Pineda is.

[Tito]

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

OK So youre suggesting that things we saw happening hour by hour , June 12th of 2007 was all speculations, yet the crap coming from you is the truth backed by your evidence, Saint John? Give it a rest dude,,,,

I didn't see anything go down. I just saw a picture edited and a press release. What did you hear or see?

you didnt even see that. You werent even around.... and we saw and heard more than what you did. What did YOU hear or see that suggests that they made him a sympathetic figure?

"They backstabbed him. They fired him after he saved them. That's horrible how they treated."
That's all I heard. Soto good, Journey bad.

[Behshad]

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

OK So youre suggesting that things we saw happening hour by hour , June 12th of 2007 was all speculations, yet the crap coming from you is the truth backed by your evidence, Saint John? Give it a rest dude,,,,

I didn't see anything go down. I just saw a picture edited and a press release. What did you hear or see?

you didnt even see that. You werent even around.... and we saw and heard more than what you did. What did YOU hear or see that suggests that they made him a sympathetic figure?

"They backstabbed him. They fired him after he saved them. That's horrible how they treated."
That's all I heard. Soto good, Journey bad.

thats what happend and if you have any proof of the opposite, bring it,,, if not, STFU

[Tito]

Jeff made his name more famous during the 1st month with Journey than Arnel has the past 10 months he's been with the band.
And almost every fan who was hoping for a new energized Journey has given up on that. The fan base has remained the same, consisting of people who only like the classic sound. Nothing wrong with that either...

I have to come back to this comment from yesterday. I stayed away from it, in respect of the Soto appreciation thread and day for that matter. I was just going to address the first sentence but I think the second one needs to be addressed too.

First, are you on crack? Pineda's name is more famous now then Soto's has been in the last 25 years. Soto never got that mainstream publicity during his tenure with the band or whole career. You people cried when Soto wasn't mention in articles or got brushed over in media outlets. So, this statement is flat out wrong.

Second, the band is energized. New wasn't and isn't going to work, especially with Soto. The only people that would be energized are the 20 to 40 of you that love Soto and Soto led Journey. The band is fine and Soto is in a better place by everyone's accounts. So, everything is good.

Famous amongst who?

Soto's name was the comparassion.

[Behshad]

Jeff made his name more famous during the 1st month with Journey than Arnel has the past 10 months he's been with the band.
And almost every fan who was hoping for a new energized Journey has given up on that. The fan base has remained the same, consisting of people who only like the classic sound. Nothing wrong with that either...

I have to come back to this comment from yesterday. I stayed away from it, in respect of the Soto appreciation thread and day for that matter. I was just going to address the first sentence but I think the second one needs to be addressed too.

First, are you on crack? Pineda's name is more famous now then Soto's has been in the last 25 years. Soto never got that mainstream publicity during his tenure with the band or whole career. You people cried when Soto wasn't mention in articles or got brushed over in media outlets. So, this statement is flat out wrong.

Second, the band is energized. New wasn't and isn't going to work, especially with Soto. The only people that would be energized are the 20 to 40 of you that love Soto and Soto led Journey. The band is fine and Soto is in a better place by everyone's accounts. So, everything is good.

Famous amongst who?

Soto's name was the comparassion.

even to Soto's name's comparision, Soto is STILL more famous than Pineda.

[Tito]

even to Soto's name's comparision, Soto is STILL more famous than Pineda.

Very debatable.

[Behshad]

even to Soto's name's comparision, Soto is STILL more famous than Pineda.

Very debatable.

Then lets get the debate going on,,,,
if youre just trying to figure out the population of Fillipines and the die hard Journey fans who know about the singer change, then you also have to compare it to the die hard fans of Yngwie, Talisman and even Queen who know who JSS is across the pond.
Further east, Soto is HUGE in Japan and Russia,,,, and he is not olnly recognized but accepted and respected by a wide group of musicians and people in the music industry.

[SusieP]

Are you kidding me? The whole dismissal has been pure speculation. Why can't this theory work. I've always said they did him a favor, by letting him go "that way." They made him a sympathetic figure. If they would've gave all the bells and whistles send off - he would've just faded away.

OK So youre suggesting that things we saw happening hour by hour , June 12th of 2007 was all speculations, yet the crap coming from you is the truth backed by your evidence, Saint John? Give it a rest dude,,,,

I will never forget the gradual disappearance of JSS's image from those band photo's when it happened.
Many of us were online at the time.
It wasn't a very pleasant experience. Those of us who saw things "happening hour by hour" as Behshad says were shocked and stunned. Well, I was.
It was awful. Sneaky. And lots more words I am too ladylike to type.

Maybe Jeff will be better off away from Journey, but that does not excuse the way things went down after he had been announced as the new lead singer.

[Tito]

even to Soto's name's comparision, Soto is STILL more famous than Pineda.

Very debatable.

Then lets get the debate going on,,,,
if youre just trying to figure out the population of Fillipines and the die hard Journey fans who know about the singer change, then you also have to compare it to the die hard fans of Yngwie, Talisman and even Queen who know who JSS is across the pond.
Further east, Soto is HUGE in Japan and Russia,,,, and he is not olnly recognized but accepted and respected by a wide group of musicians and people in the music industry.

Talisman: LOL!
Queen: Most don't. He played a convention.
Yngwie: I'll give you some points on. But, still once Journey tours, that will overcome any Yngwie popularity points.

Now, he's huge in Japan and Russia. I think you're using the word, huge, very liberal here. Doesn't Arnel have some popularity out in Asia? BTW, is Soto as huge in Japan and Russia as he is in South America and the rest of Europe?

[Behshad]

even to Soto's name's comparision, Soto is STILL more famous than Pineda.

Very debatable.

Then lets get the debate going on,,,,
if youre just trying to figure out the population of Fillipines and the die hard Journey fans who know about the singer change, then you also have to compare it to the die hard fans of Yngwie, Talisman and even Queen who know who JSS is across the pond.
Further east, Soto is HUGE in Japan and Russia,,,, and he is not olnly recognized but accepted and respected by a wide group of musicians and people in the music industry.

Talisman: LOL!
Queen: Most don't. He played a convention.
Yngwie: I'll give you some points on. But, still once Journey tours, that will overcome any Yngwie popularity points.

Now, he's huge in Japan and Russia. I think you're using the word, huge, very liberal here. Doesn't Arnel have some popularity out in Asia? BTW, is Soto as huge in Japan and Russia as he is in South America and the rest of Europe?

Just cause Talisman was not introduced to the US Market doesnt mean that theyre not popular. I can guarantee you that Talisman is more popular in Scandianvia than Journey even. Its different market for different audience. While you were listening to your Britney Spears and Ashley Simpsons here, The rock & roll scene in European countries was still huge and bands like Rising Force, Talisman, Europe, Evergrey and many unknown to you and your crowd, were touring around in Europe and playing great music.
You want to justify Soto's popularity by your personal music taste, then sure you win... but if you go any further and look at the music industry outside US, you will be surprised that Soto is a bigger name than you think he is. And yes he is popular in South America as well, but judging from your avatar and your view on life below the south borders, that doesnt mean shit to you.
Main thing that totally puts Soto above Arnel is the fact that for 25 years he did alot of different styles of music, but it was NOT 90% COVER songs, like Arnel's music has been.

[Saint John]

Soto's 3 biggest accomplishments as far as exposure go were Boogie Nights, The Queen Convention, and the Journey relief appearance. All cover gigs. And yes, Soto has had worldwide exposure. However, his 2 most recent non-cover efforts (Soul Sirkus and his solo U.S. tour last year) were about as successful as Steve Perry's last hike up a mountain.

Pineda's only problem was exposure. Manila and Hong Kong are hardly music hot beds. While fairly big in Asia, he had never had a chance elsewhere. His chance seems to be immediately surpassing that of the 25 year journeyman. With ease I might add. He's simply better.

[Behshad]

Was wondering how long it'd take till Tito passed the dildo-torch to his boyfriend ,,,,

[Tito]

Just cause Talisman was not introduced to the US Market doesnt mean that theyre not popular. I can guarantee you that Talisman is more popular in Scandianvia than Journey even. Its different market for different audience. While you were listening to your Britney Spears and Ashley Simpsons here, The rock & roll scene in European countries was still huge and bands like Rising Force, Talisman, Europe, Evergrey and many unknown to you and your crowd, were touring around in Europe and playing great music.
You want to justify Soto's popularity by your personal music taste, then sure you win... but if you go any further and look at the music industry outside US, you will be surprised that Soto is a bigger name than you think he is. And yes he is popular in South America as well, but judging from your avatar and your view on life below the south borders, that doesnt mean shit to you.
Main thing that totally puts Soto above Arnel is the fact that for 25 years he did alot of different styles of music, but it was NOT 90% COVER songs, like Arnel's music has been.

90% Covers? Soto's setlist in his hotbed/stronghold of South America (opening for Jimi Jamison in 2008:

JSS – Queen Cover:

Set List:
One Vision
Let Me Entertain You
Tie Your Mother Down
Another One Bites the Dust / I'll Be Waiting (Talisman)
Crazy (cover do Seal)
I Wan't to Break Free
Fat Bottomed Blues
Somebody to Love
I Want It All
Under Pressure
Radio Ga Ga
Bohemian Rhapsody
Spread Your Wings (trecho à capela)
Show Must Go On
Burning Heart (Survivor, com Jamison)
We Will Rock You
We Are the Champions (com Jamison e Nando Fernandes)

It appears after 25 years, Soto is still where Arnel was.

Popular in Europe - why did he have sparsely populated shows with Tempestt this year in another supposed stronghold? I think his/the bands popularity in Europe is overstated.

Even where all his fans were at Melodic Rock fest he had to switch to a Plan B.

Any "success" he has had, has been singing covers: Boogie Nights, Queen, Sammy Hagar-Rock Star, and Journey. Nothing on his own.

I don't think he's as big as some would like to believe.

[Behshad]

is it me or do you two enjoy HOTBEDS together !?:)

[Saint John]

Was wondering how long it'd take till Tito passed the dildo-torch to his boyfriend ,,,,

Just beating you up with facts. That's all. Aren't you the guy that said Soto was big in South America? Take a look at his last set list from the Tempest gig (Who the fuck are they, by the way?). For a guy that "would rather play his own music to 100 people than sing someone else's legacy" he sure had no problem singing covers in a place where he's "big." Or at the Queen convention...or during The Boogie Nights tour. Weird, huh?

[Behshad]

As I stated before, since you dont count Yngwie & Talisman as accomplishment, its unfair to even debate with either of you.
Both bands were huge in Europe & Japan , where people knew who JSS was long before he joined Journey or sang Queen covers.

[Tito]

One More Thing!

He's played diverse music, because nothing has stuck. Nothing has been successful. If it was, you can bet he would've stuck with something. He just keeps throwing shit at the wall and hope something sticks.

[Tito]

As I stated before, since you dont count Yngwie & Talisman as accomplishment, its unfair to even debate with either of you.
Both bands were huge in Europe & Japan , where people knew who JSS was long before he joined Journey or sang Queen covers.

I'll give you Yngwie, even though I personally think Joe Lynn Turner is a bigger name.
Talisman is overstated.

[Behshad]

Was wondering how long it'd take till Tito passed the dildo-torch to his boyfriend ,,,,

Just beating you up with facts. That's all. Aren't you the guy that said Soto was big in South America? Take a look at his last set list from the Tempest gig (Who the fuck are they, by the way?). For a guy that "would rather play his own music to 100 people than sing someone else's legacy" he sure had no problem singing covers in a place where he's "big." Or at the Queen convention...or during The Boogie Nights tour. Weird, huh?

You expect him to sing what songs during a fuckin Queen convention!????

He is big compared to Arnel in South America (and Europe and Japan) . THATS a FACT.
You meassure a song/bands quality by top 10. I dont.
You go to a live show to close your eyes and just LISTEN to the music, I go there to see the SHOW,
So thats why we will always have different opinions. But the FACT that both of you come here just to get involve in ANY Jeff threads, its getting old. We get it. You dont like Jeff,,,
One thing neither of you will EVER understand is the fact that
JEFF'S FANS ARE NOT MAD CAUSE JOURNEY MOVED ON WITHOUT HIM. JEFF IS IN A MUCH BETTER PLACE NOW. WE WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER HOW SHITTY THE SITUATION WAS HANDLED.