'Revelation': now a gold CD .......

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Postby kgdjpubs » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:00 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Good God Almighty,
why does anyone really give a shit if
it goes Gold, Platnum or straight up tanks???

Last I checked, no one one this board is getting
royalty checks. And hell, you got your copy, I got
my copy, we're listening to it, we're happy/not-so-happy...

Who the fuck really cares what status it reaches??? :roll:



actually, I could see several people here having interest in whether the album moves copies or not. I've always seen Revelation as the last big push before the band faded away. If it sells, the band might make another cd to capitalize on its success. If it fails (like everything before), my guess is that it could likely be the last Journey album. Journey wasn't exactly rushing to put out a new album after Arrival....then four years later, you get a half-of-a-Journey album mainly forced on the band by Augeri, who simply didn't want to tour endlessly with no new material.

The logic is pretty simple...anyone that wants to hear new Journey songs at some point should hope the album does well. The guys aren't getting any younger, and what's the point of putting out album after album if nobody ever listens to it???
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:01 am

Rick wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
Tito wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:Course, I haven't bought one yet...I'll let you know why I did it when I do!!!! :wink:


What the hell is your problem. Go get one! :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:
In MY time!!! :wink:


Reminds me of our cat. He isn't going to do one thing until he's good and ready. :lol:


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Postby separate_wayz » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:01 am

Saint John wrote:The commercial success of this album is far important than just "the numbers." I think it has all but guaranteed that Arnel will be doing at least one more album with the band. Word on the street is that we can expect something as soon as Fall of next year. That's what I'm excited about more than anything...the thought of these guys continuing to make new music.


Yup, yup, yup ..... That's what I'm excited about too. And commercial/critical success will allow them a little more freedom in the recording studio too. I think they felt they needed a solid (albeit "safe") album for this first deal with Wal-Mart. But you might see more ambitious music on their next CD.

I don't want my comments to appear derogatory toward the current album at all. But I think they took a more risk-averse approach -- although well thought out -- for 'Revelation'. "Risk-averse" is exactly what they needed, considering this agreement with Wal-Mart was arguably their last major label/retail marketing outlet. Insert sports analogy here: they hit a double and drove-in two runs ..... A very, very solid performance.

But who knows -- the next album could be a grand slam with the bases loaded ......

(Maybe the next album will have more cowbell ..... That's my other hope.) :D
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Postby Rick » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:05 am

conversationpc wrote:
Rick wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
Tito wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:Course, I haven't bought one yet...I'll let you know why I did it when I do!!!! :wink:


What the hell is your problem. Go get one! :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:
In MY time!!! :wink:


Reminds me of our cat. He isn't going to do one thing until he's good and ready. :lol:


Image


Have you ever seen mycathatesyou.com?


No, I hadn't. That's hilarious. :lol: Thanks for the link. I'll definitely forward it to my wife, she'll get a kick out of it also.
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Postby separate_wayz » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:12 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Good God Almighty,
why does anyone really give a shit if
it goes Gold, Platnum or straight up tanks???

Last I checked, no one one this board is getting
royalty checks. And hell, you got your copy, I got
my copy, we're listening to it, we're happy/not-so-happy...

Who the fuck really cares what status it reaches??? :roll:


MEEEEEEEEE!!! I live vicariously through the band!!! I gain self-esteem by my association with pop culture icons and heroes!!! :D

Oh, and I AM in the band and anxiously awaiting all my back royalty checks! I'm the one that adds all the cowbell to Journey songs. You know that little cymbal bell that Steve Smith added to "Don't Stop Believin' "? Totally my idea ...... (you're welcome). :D
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Postby journeybabe » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:40 am

Saint John wrote:The commercial success of this album is far more important than just "the numbers." I think it has all but guaranteed that Arnel will be doing at least one more album with the band. Word on the street is that we can expect something as soon as Fall of next year. That's what I'm excited about more than anything...the thought of these guys continuing to make new music.


St. John: I echo your thoughts... I hope they never split and they continue to make more songs and albums with Arnel. This album rock the charts! I hope album sales will continue to increase and music fans from other countries will bring global sales past the 1M units mark by end of this year. -JBabe
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:10 am

Red13JoePa wrote:I love the duality of the "Disc 2 is superfluos/a waste/a piece of shit/an abortion/terrible/a pale imitation/a drink coaster" then when it comes to the discussion of units moved, it's "It's because of the songs on Disc 2!!!"


Horses asses :roll:


You can include me in that esteemed lot.

There is a reason the only limited success the Augeri-era achieved was a DVD comprised of nearly all Perry hits.
Same rule applies here.

And if you think Journey's next album won't include a DSB clubbanger re-mix or some other circumlocutory means of tying the present-to-the-past, you're sorely mistaken.
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Postby EightyRock » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:31 am

Yeah, include me in there, too. You'll see more Perry-era gems dusted off and re-recorded for the next CD, too. If they could do this on their own merit ONLY, then they could claim they'd had some success. So far, their success has been (as always) on Perry's coat tails.
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Postby finalfight » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:34 am

EightyRock wrote:Yeah, include me in there, too. You'll see more Perry-era gems dusted off and re-recorded for the next CD, too. If they could do this on their own merit ONLY, then they could claim they'd had some success. So far, their success has been (as always) on Perry's coat tails.


Of course it hasn't. The vocal majority have already suggested that the rerecords are less than worthless and its the NEW material that is getting all the accolades.

Perry has nothing to do with this success. Nothing.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:02 am

finalfight wrote:Of course it hasn't. The vocal majority have already suggested that the rerecords are less than worthless and its the NEW material that is getting all the accolades.


The "vocal majority" is a byword for a handful of like-minded opinions you found on the web.

Going on the lackluster consumer reception to "Arrival", "Generations," and "Red 13", my intuition tells me the masses picked it up for the classics. Granted, two of those albums had no promotional push whatsoever, but the point still stands.
Similarly, success had eluded modern Styx until they released a covers album. There is just something about the familiar and the instantly recognizable that buyers are receptive to.

Even friends that I've given the package to immediately want to pop in Disc 2 – not a scientific measure by any stretch, but still…
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Postby finalfight » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:41 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
finalfight wrote:Of course it hasn't. The vocal majority have already suggested that the rerecords are less than worthless and its the NEW material that is getting all the accolades.


The "vocal majority" is a byword for a handful of like-minded opinions you found on the web.

Going on the lackluster consumer reception to "Arrival", "Generations," and "Red 13", my intuition tells me the masses picked it up for the classics. Granted, two of those albums had no promotional push whatsoever, but the point still stands.
Similarly, success had eluded modern Styx until they released a covers album. There is just something about the familiar and the instantly recognizable that buyers are receptive to.

Even friends that I've given the package to immediately want to pop in Disc 2 – not a scientific measure by any stretch, but still…


I would say it has more to do with the Walmart deal, promotion and quality new material than the disc of reworked hits that apparently nobody wants (or around 14 million people already have 'better' versions of). Walmart have a proven track record of success in this field.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:45 am

finalfight wrote:I would say it has more to do with the Walmart deal, promotion and quality new material than the disc of reworked hits that apparently nobody wants (or around 14 million people already have 'better' versions of). Walmart have a proven track record of success in this field.


I think the low price and dirty dozen were the main selling point.
However, there will only be one way to know for sure, release an album of new Journey material and let it sink or swim on it's own.
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Postby finalfight » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:47 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
I think the low price and dirty dozen were the main selling point.
However, there will only be one way to know for sure, release an album of new Journey material and let it sink or swim on it's own.


True. Roll on the next one (after they promote the hell out of this one of course)!
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Postby separate_wayz » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:58 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
finalfight wrote:Of course it hasn't. The vocal majority have already suggested that the rerecords are less than worthless and its the NEW material that is getting all the accolades.


The "vocal majority" is a byword for a handful of like-minded opinions you found on the web.

Going on the lackluster consumer reception to "Arrival", "Generations," and "Red 13", my intuition tells me the masses picked it up for the classics. Granted, two of those albums had no promotional push whatsoever, but the point still stands.
Similarly, success had eluded modern Styx until they released a covers album. There is just something about the familiar and the instantly recognizable that buyers are receptive to.

Even friends that I've given the package to immediately want to pop in Disc 2 – not a scientific measure by any stretch, but still…


It's possible that many (even most) purchasers bought the album because of the classics. But I'm not quite sure that the majority did in this case.

One benefit of touring almost non-stop over the last 10 years has been to build a loyal and significant fan base. I think this fan base in 2008 was (1) larger and (2) more knowledgable (on average) about current events with the band (i.e., new album, tour, new lead singer, etc.) than the fan base in 2001. An aggressive marketing campaign (read: dominant retailer providing a product at good value)could tap into this fan base in 2008 and have successful sales.

In 2001, Sony launched a lethargic marketing campaign, marketing a legacy act (Journey) largely the same way it would do for, say, Britney Spears. The product it brought to market was nowhere near the value that 'Revelation' is (no bonus CD or DVD).

In 2001, Journey was at the back-end of a marketing cycle -- the marketing techniques for 'Arrival' was at least five years out-of-date, at least. In 2008, on the other hand, Journey is on the front-end of marketing techniques (direct marketing thru Wal-Mart) -- hence the recent article that appeared in the New York Times describing this very thing (and focusing on Journey, by the way).

If I had to guess, I'd say 75% bought the album for the new music (or simply out of curiousity, or for the value of the package as a whole), 20% bought it for the re-records, and 5% bought it for the DVD.

The brilliance of the marketing plan for this album was the concept of the tie-in. If you bought it for one reason (old music, new music, DVD), you were given two additional benefits -- and because of the Wal-Mart price point, these came at essentially no additional cost.

If Journey keeps re-recording some classics for future CDs, and releases double-albums in the future, so what? ..... Journey was hamstrung for 8 years, unable to re-record any Perry-era classics. So, unlike other bands, they couldn't re-record their older catalogue and do different arrangements, do acoustic recordings, or whatever. Now that they can, good for them.

Personally, I think some of the re-records are excellent. (But I'll save that for my review, to be posted shortly.) :wink:
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Postby Don » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:05 am

I wonder how many people saw the DVD playing at Walmart and said that's cool, Oh look It comes with 2 cds also. Maybe a small minority but there is the group that likes to collect concert dvds to blast through their home theater systems.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:07 am

separate_wayz wrote:If I had to guess, I'd say 75% bought the album for the new music (or simply out of curiousity, or for the value of the package as a whole), 20% bought it for the re-records, and 5% bought it for the DVD.

The brilliance of the marketing plan for this album was the concept of the tie-in. If you bought it for one reason (old music, new music, DVD), you were given two additional benefits -- and because of the Wal-Mart price point, these came at essentially no additional cost.


Not bad for a buch of guys who we've been gleefully told were hoodwinked and cornholed by a previous singer into paying him as a full-on member while they toiled in musical purgatory because they were so stupid and he was so brilliant business-wise.
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Postby Saint John » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:33 am

29,000 for week 4. That's just plain awesome. 8)
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Postby epresley » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:35 am

Saint John wrote:29,000 for week 4. That's just plain awesome. 8)


EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby AlteredDNA » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:40 am

Saint John wrote:29,000 for week 4. That's just plain awesome. 8)


It'll be interesting to see what sort of bounce it gets once they start touring here...
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Postby epresley » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:42 am

Well, it won't get the bounce your avatar gets, but it'll be significant :shock:
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Postby Saint John » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:49 am

AlteredDNA wrote:
Saint John wrote:29,000 for week 4. That's just plain awesome. 8)


It'll be interesting to see what sort of bounce it gets once they start touring here...


I don't see a "bounce" as much as I see sustainability. And that's all they need...to stay on the chart for as long as possible. Try and sell between 10 and 20 thousand for 5-10 more weeks.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:53 am

epresley wrote:Well, it won't get the bounce your avatar gets, but it'll be significant :shock:




:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby AlteredDNA » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:54 am

Saint John wrote:
AlteredDNA wrote:
Saint John wrote:29,000 for week 4. That's just plain awesome. 8)


It'll be interesting to see what sort of bounce it gets once they start touring here...


I don't see a "bounce" as much as I see sustainability. And that's all they need...to stay on the chart for as long as possible. Try and sell between 10 and 20 thousand for 5-10 more weeks.


I guess I meant a bounce as in chart position, but agreed, consistent sales are the key...
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Postby separate_wayz » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:09 am

Saint John wrote:
AlteredDNA wrote:
Saint John wrote:29,000 for week 4. That's just plain awesome. 8)


It'll be interesting to see what sort of bounce it gets once they start touring here...


I don't see a "bounce" as much as I see sustainability. And that's all they need...to stay on the chart for as long as possible. Try and sell between 10 and 20 thousand for 5-10 more weeks.


SJ's right. If Journey sells 17,135 albums (x 2 CDs each) over each of the next 14 weeks -- which is pre-U.S.-tour by one week, thru the end of the U.S. tour on October 8th -- the album will go platinum on that date at 500,000 albums sold (x 2 CDs = 1,000,000 units).

The concert tour should definitely help with sustainability .....
Last edited by separate_wayz on Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:06 am

amaron wrote:
Eric wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:When TBF reached platinum it was because a million people purchased the single disk album.


TBF SHIPPED platinum so we could argue that if only 250,000 shipped it wouldn't be Platinum yet!


That is incorrect.

TBF was certified platinum in December of 1996... but released in October 1996.

But the fact remains that 1,000,000 people did not buy TBF in 3 months. If they did, it would have been on the charts for longer than it was.


TBF did ship Platinum. Certification happens when the record label pays the RIAA for the audit of sales. The same reason Revelation is not "officially" Gold...the record label (or band) has not paid to audit sales. The telling point on TBF is that it did go double platinum...
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Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:09 am

Calbear94 wrote:I see it as more of a pricing issue. Double CD sets used to be almost twice as expensive as single CDs. What if instead of including the three discs, Revelation was only the one CD of "new material," but sold at a $6 price point? Would it have been selling the same?


That is exactly why the rule was written as such. The RIAA counted the discs individually because the consumer was paying double that of a single CD. Sees fair to me. Of course that no longer is the case...
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Re: 'Revelation': now a gold CD .......

Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:13 am

Voyager wrote:Last time I checked, a double live album still has to sell 500,000 units for it to be deemed gold.

:roll:


Uh, nope!
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Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:17 am

Monker wrote: But, the rule should be changed because of how these packages are now being put together. That rule was designed for multi albums, such as Captured, to be given a fair shot. Revelation is not a true 'double album'. It's Revelation, Recollection, and a DVD...three seperate things...and they should not be counted as one.


How is that any different? First of all, the DVD counts for nothing so you can drop that out of your hypothesis. But how is a double live album different that 2 CDs of newly recorded music? How is any different than if a band puts out a 2CD Greatest Hits set? In fact, by your logic, any GH CD should not be eligible so Journey's GH is not Diamond...
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Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:18 am

Voyager wrote:How many would have sold by now if Steve Perry would have been singing on it? More? Less?

:?:


None, because it would never have been recorded...
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Postby Saint John » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:20 am

jrnyman28 wrote:
Voyager wrote:How many would have sold by now if Steve Perry would have been singing on it? More? Less?

:?:


None, because it would never have been recorded...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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