Greatest Hits - Re-records (vocals pro tool) ?

[Saint John]

If it was so "pieced together" and Perry was so bad and vocally "exhausted" and Ross agreed etc. then, why did the band even want to go out on the road to support it with Perry??!

Something doesn't add up...

Because they had 75-80 million reasons, amigo. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Tito]

I find no problem with the re-records. As a matter fact, on the way home yesterday I heard SW on the radio. I turned it off and put in Disc 2 and play them. I'm liking the rerecords.

[texafana]

"Listen to One more from TBF for a great example of this because you can hear that weird sounds pretty clearly without using any mixing tools. During the part where he say NO more, No more, no more and it echoes a few times you can hear this screeching sound come from him as he finishes the word more and then it echos. Poor guy... "

This sounds like Steve is doing a type of yodel at the end of certain words or phrases. He quickly allows his voice to flutter to head voice for a brief instance for "effect". Granted, he does this alot on TBF, but I'm not 100% sure it's due to fatigue. Country singers do this alot as well, sometimes too much, especially when transitioning from very loud high notes at the end of a phrase, etc.

Any chance of you slicing up Steve Perry's vox on Message Of Love so we can hear it isolated? Thanks.

Its a pretty simple thing to do I guess but I am telling you that it will change your opinion of that album when you hear him "almost naked". Drums and guitar bleed through but you mostly hear Perry. I will see what I can do but as I am at work right now I need to get back to ummm hehe work...... I will see if I have time tonight and upload it somewhere.

Thanks! Looking forward to it!!

[JohnH]

I TBF on the other hand has SOOOOOOO many edits and man are they obvious when you extract the center channel and hear Perry with almost no effects on his voice and almost alone in the mix.

This has been one of the many reasons I have said that I am SURE his voice is shot because if he had to stop that much there must have been some big stamina issues. Message of Love is really bad about that. The last verse where he sings "Baby can you hear me" lower than he did earlier in the track right near the end sounds like he was vocally fatigued. Perry can no longer take certain notes and sustain them and let the note fade to nothing. As he gets quieter with the note and closes the note you can here this weird screeching sound come from his throat which gets hidden by effects most of the time.

Listen to One more from TBF for a great example of this because you can hear that weird sounds pretty clearly without using any mixing tools. During the part where he say NO more, No more, no more and it echoes a few times you can hear this screeching sound come from him as he finishes the word more and then it echos. Poor guy...



.

True. Later Perry albums are shalacked in reverb and effects to cover up the roughness in his voice. Blackmore's Night does the same thing to Candice's "voice" onstage. They use pitch correction, chorusing and effects because she isn't the world's greatest singer. It does sound great though.

[JohnH]

Any chance of you slicing up Steve Perry's vox on Message Of Love so we can hear it isolated? Thanks.

No...please don't. Someone sent me part of ICSIIYE awhile back and I almost cried. That album is nothing more than a patched together shit stain. The ballads are the only songs that are somewhat legit. I can honestly say that I no longer can blame him for not touring. He just shouldn't have strung the guys along and acted as if he was ever going to.

This basically confirms what Stu told me he had heard from Ross a while back.

And why the guys were so frustrated that Perry had to do take after take after take after take. Escape was cut in a few weeks and Street Talk was done in 3 weeks and they're masterpieces. Why this dude won't come forward and say that his voice is gone is beyond me. I believe TBF was done solely to break up the revamped lineup and eliminate Herbie. He cannot face the fact that he can no longer front and tour for Journey. People age, man...it's ok, Steve.

Well I don't know what you mean. Steve has all but admitted it. During the Newsweek interview in 2007 he stated he wouldn't accept offers to sing Dont Stop Believing, because he wanted to keep the memories of the song the way they were. In other words, he can't do it now, and doesn't want to ruin the song. That's as close as he's come, but it's just about stating the obvious without really saying so.

John

[JohnH]

Any chance of you slicing up Steve Perry's vox on Message Of Love so we can hear it isolated? Thanks.

No...please don't. Someone sent me part of ICSIIYE awhile back and I almost cried. That album is nothing more than a patched together shit stain. The ballads are the only songs that are somewhat legit. I can honestly say that I no longer can blame him for not touring. He just shouldn't have strung the guys along and acted as if he was ever going to.

This basically confirms what Stu told me he had heard from Ross a while back.

And why the guys were so frustrated that Perry had to do take after take after take after take. Escape was cut in a few weeks and Street Talk was done in 3 weeks and they're masterpieces. Why this dude won't come forward and say that his voice is gone is beyond me. I believe TBF was done solely to break up the revamped lineup and eliminate Herbie. He cannot face the fact that he can no longer front and tour for Journey. People age, man...it's ok, Steve.

This is why I admired Brad Delp so much in this respect. Guy flat out admitted during the 2004 show I went to that Fran Cosmo was the guy who could hit all the high notes that he couldn't get to anymore.

And what is wierd is that Brad was hitting tons of very impressive high notes during the 2003 and 4 shows I saw. So much for his voice not being what it was. Rubbish! And he held the note at the end of More Than A Feeling for a very long time, I will never forget it...Neither tommy nor Michael held it half that length when I saw them last week. It's not a high note, just that Brad's stamina was amazing.

John

[Don]

Trial By Fire does sound great. To reproduce that sound live would take a great engineer with a lot of preshow prepping. And you might need a great lighting program too, depending how far you want to give the perception of replicating that studio sound, the only danger being that playing more than 3 songs from that album could put the audience to sleep.

[Tomulator]

If it was so "pieced together" and Perry was so bad and vocally "exhausted" and Ross agreed etc. then, why did the band even want to go out on the road to support it with Perry??!

Something doesn't add up...

Because they had 75-80 million reasons, amigo. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes but...the damage that could potentially be done to the band if SP couldn't cut it live and butchered the "hits" would have been a HUGE deterrent, IMO.

I suspect the band thought that SP was just a bit "rusty" and could work himself back into vocal shape enough to do the songs justice again...

[Don]

If it was so "pieced together" and Perry was so bad and vocally "exhausted" and Ross agreed etc. then, why did the band even want to go out on the road to support it with Perry??!

Something doesn't add up...

Because they had 75-80 million reasons, amigo. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes but...the damage that could potentially be done to the band if SP couldn't cut it live and butchered the "hits" would have been a HUGE deterrent, IMO.

I suspect the band thought that SP was just a bit "rusty" and could work himself back into vocal shape enough to do the songs justice again...

They had to keep the faith in him at that point. He was the catalyst that brought them together again. They probably didn't want to believe that he was out of gas, just as you say, rusty or in a preseason slump that could be broken after a few gigs on the road.

[Tomulator]

If it was so "pieced together" and Perry was so bad and vocally "exhausted" and Ross agreed etc. then, why did the band even want to go out on the road to support it with Perry??!

Something doesn't add up...

Because they had 75-80 million reasons, amigo. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes but...the damage that could potentially be done to the band if SP couldn't cut it live and butchered the "hits" would have been a HUGE deterrent, IMO.

I suspect the band thought that SP was just a bit "rusty" and could work himself back into vocal shape enough to do the songs justice again...

They had to keep the faith in him at that point. He was the catalyst that brought them together again. They probably didn't want to believe that he was out of gas, just as you say, rusty or in a preseason slump that could be broken after a few gigs on the road.

Another thing that has always puzzled me are the statements the band (Ross) made about their initial "jam sessions" prior to the TBF sessions...that they seemed like they never missed a beat (or something to that effect). He sounded so convincing...hard to believe SP's voice would have sounded good under those conditions and that Ross could lie so well about it...hmmm.

[Manjushri]

Yep, certainly sounds like they tweaked Arnels voice big time in some of the songs, such as "Wheel In The Sky" "Seperate Ways" to mention a few, you can tell theres some un-natural sounds and note bending, only a computer can do, it's not natural at all. Being a good singer as Arnel is, still seems they can't help themselves, all this technology available.

Sort it out fella!!!

With this kind of sh*t you should be working for the British Press. I have listened to the new album time and again [u]BOTH discs, I have to adnit to having no technical knowhow as regards Pro Tools BUT, I know what I heard at the UK dates I went to, at Nottingham I was 5ft away from Arnel and he kicked ass!!!

Please do not go down the sad road of dissing Arnel, this is the type of thing the press in the UK do when they get their teeth into someone.

Steve Perry was the greatest vocalist ever, my opinion is that Arnel is currently fantastic. Just let him/us enjoy what is currently happening without anylising the sh*t out of it.

By the way, even without any technilogical "know how" even I can hear SP's vocals sadly are nowhere near their best on TBF.

[stevew2]

I find no problem with the re-records. As a matter fact, on the way home yesterday I heard SW on the radio. I turned it off and put in Disc 2 and play them. I'm liking the rerecords.

Would you like a rose for that comment ? Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

[ProgRocker53]

I find no problem with the re-records. As a matter fact, on the way home yesterday I heard SW on the radio. I turned it off and put in Disc 2 and play them. I'm liking the rerecords.

Would you like a rose for that comment ? Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

+1 stevew2

[stevew2]

I find no problem with the re-records. As a matter fact, on the way home yesterday I heard SW on the radio. I turned it off and put in Disc 2 and play them. I'm liking the rerecords.

Would you like a rose for that comment ? Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

+1 stevew2

I didnt mention anything about gayness see lol

[S2M]

I find no problem with the re-records. As a matter fact, on the way home yesterday I heard SW on the radio. I turned it off and put in Disc 2 and play them. I'm liking the rerecords.

Would you like a rose for that comment ? Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

OH NOOOOOOO...not a 'Back to the Innocence' reference......THE HORROR!

[Glenn]

No...please don't. Someone sent me part of ICSIIYE awhile back and I almost cried. That album is nothing more than a patched together shit stain. The ballads are the only songs that are somewhat legit. I can honestly say that I no longer can blame him for not touring. He just shouldn't have strung the guys along and acted as if he was ever going to.

That's a Grammy nominated patched together shit stain.
Despite a hyperglycemic ballad-heavy track list, TBF showcases Journey at their best.

A grammy nom that was "bought and paid for" by Azoff and co.


Still a decent album though....Even if Perry was not up to snuff on the vocals.


Hell, I like Message Of Love better than Separate Ways.....

[Ehwmatt]

This is why I admired Brad Delp so much in this respect. Guy flat out admitted during the 2004 show I went to that Fran Cosmo was the guy who could hit all the high notes that he couldn't get to anymore.

And why I admire DDY even more... despite being 60+, the guy still KILLS every note live and with all the power and conviction he had in his prime. Unreal.

[finalfight]

I'm actually looking forward to hearing the much touted stripped down Trial By Fire recordings 'highlighting' Perry's apparent vocal decline with morbid curiosity.

[ProgRocker53]

Most of Trial by Fire SLAYS.

Message of Love, One More, Can't Tame The Lion, I Can See It In Your Eyes... DAG, yo. Awesome tunes to rock out to...

Still She Cries, If He Should Break Your Heart, Forever in Blue... some good pop there and then SSC has some of the best instrumental playing in Journey, ever...

When You Love a Woman, Easy to Fall... two great ballads for the ballad-inclined folk.

Hell, I even love Colors of the Spirit (Pan flute makes me wag my tail) and have learned to love the reggae bonus track....

[Big J]

I'm actually looking forward to hearing the much touted stripped down Trial By Fire recordings 'highlighting' Perry's apparent vocal decline with morbid curiosity.

Me too, I've gotta hear this.

[Enigma869]

Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

Friga's version is AWFUL! GEEZ...the first time I heard that version, all I could think of is "Who the fuck told Friga that he should ever sing" ? Dude is a MASTER lyricist, but needs to stay off of lead vocals, FOREVER! As I've said a million times...if you're in the camp that you truly believe it's the song and not the lead singer, listen to Perry's version of "Faithfully", and then listen to Friga's version of "Faithfully". I guarantee you that if Friga was singing lead on the released version of that song, it never would have cracked Billboard's "Top 200"! It's simply painful to listen to! There is no greater example of a singer making a song what it is, and making the lyrics come alive than Perry's soaring vocals on "Faithfully"!


John from Boston

[Michigan Girl]

Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

Friga's version is AWFUL! GEEZ...the first time I heard that version, all I could think of is "Who the fuck told Friga that he should ever sing" ? Dude is a MASTER lyricist, but needs to stay off of lead vocals, FOREVER! As I've said a million times...if you're in the camp that you truly believe it's the song and not the lead singer, listen to Perry's version of "Faithfully", and then listen to Friga's version of "Faithfully". I guarantee you that if Friga was singing lead on the released version of that song, it never would have cracked Billboard's "Top 200"! It's simply painful to listen to! There is no greater example of a singer making a song what it is, and making the lyrics come alive than Perry's soaring vocals on "Faithfully"!


John from Boston

[slucero]

Yep, certainly sounds like they tweaked Arnels voice big time in some of the songs, such as "Wheel In The Sky" "Seperate Ways" to mention a few, you can tell there's some un-natural sounds and note bending, only a computer can do, it's not natural at all. Being a good singer as Arnel is, still seems they can't help themselves, all this technology available.

funny... I heard very, very subtle sibilance control (which has been a standard recording practice for a LONG time now)... and would be normal given Arnels (or any other singer) tendency to accentuate what are known as "plosives". Yet even in that regard, I hear very little processing... listen to WCN... especially where he ends a sentence with a consonant sound (plosive)... the plosive remains untouched... as is illustrated by the huge reverb tail which the plosive causes. If the plosive had been massaged or edited the reverb tail would be much less noticeable.

Regarding "pitch correction" - if there was any pitch-correction (which is pretty normal now) it was so subtle it either wasn't noticeable or didn't exist. I also hear lots of stuff that WASN'T pitch corrected that could have been... so it stands to reason that they all would have been "massaged", not just a few.

Even though the re-records were done at JC's... KS mixed em both.. which is where the vocal processing would have been added.

I'm gonna strip the vocal out and listen to just that, but I'm not hearing what you say you are.

[Aaron]

Ditto

I'm actually looking forward to hearing the much touted stripped down Trial By Fire recordings 'highlighting' Perry's apparent vocal decline with morbid curiosity.

Me too, I've gotta hear this.

[stevew2]

Do you play Frigas version of Faithfully when Perrys comes on the radio??

Friga's version is AWFUL! GEEZ...the first time I heard that version, all I could think of is "Who the fuck told Friga that he should ever sing" ? Dude is a MASTER lyricist, but needs to stay off of lead vocals, FOREVER! As I've said a million times...if you're in the camp that you truly believe it's the song and not the lead singer, listen to Perry's version of "Faithfully", and then listen to Friga's version of "Faithfully". I guarantee you that if Friga was singing lead on the released version of that song, it never would have cracked Billboard's "Top 200"! It's simply painful to listen to! There is no greater example of a singer making a song what it is, and making the lyrics come alive than Perry's soaring vocals on "Faithfully"!


John from Boston

I agree,Ive heard it,he looks and sounds like a frog when he sings.He barely makes it for singing back ground vocals.He should not be within 30 feet of a microphone.Great song writer a little cheesy at times,nice keyboard skills. He is still a dick though.

[texafana]

For the record...TBF rocks. When I first heard "Message Of Love" from the vocal intro to the initial song...fkin eh...excellent high quality music. Love that tune.

[Liquid_Drummer]

I'm actually looking forward to hearing the much touted stripped down Trial By Fire recordings 'highlighting' Perry's apparent vocal decline with morbid curiosity.

Not tonight fellas. Time with the woman has been demanded hehe. Pizza and Enterprise (Star Trek) this evening. I will need a place to upload them too as well. Can anyone help me sort that out ? I am going to do a few songs. This isnt to make Perry's vocal change obvious or to really point it out I must add. I only wanted to hear him without all the effects and as accapella (fucking spelling) as possible.

[strangegrey]

The reason why Neal Schon made the pro tools wiz comment with regards to Steve Augeri is that Neal assumes that 99% of the people out there don't know that almost every studio out there employs pro-tools (or a comparable) software these days. He also assumes that 99% of the people out there don't understand what goes into digital audio workstations and how much they are used by EVERY SINGLE fucking act out there recording music. The fact of the matter is that comping vocals is something that's been done for longer than some of us have been alive. Doing it in a DAW just makes it a quicker process.

What Neal was hoping to do with his statement, was to discredit Steve Augeri and pimp up the latest replacement in his wake. Nothing more, nothing less. Previous comments about the most significant abuse of this process being TBF are very acurate. I still scratch my head when I hear the comments regarding augeri....ALL of Augeri's studio work was done within his range and comfort level...he didn't need studio help to perform his own music. He used studio tools to the same extent that JSS, Pinyata, Chalfant or anyone else uses them.

Neal must be taking disinformation lessons from Eddie Van Halen...

[RobbieG]

The reason why Neal Schon made the pro tools wiz comment with regards to Steve Augeri is that Neal assumes that 99% of the people out there don't know that almost every studio out there employs pro-tools (or a comparable) software these days. He also assumes that 99% of the people out there don't understand what goes into digital audio workstations and how much they are used by EVERY SINGLE fucking act out there recording music. The fact of the matter is that comping vocals is something that's been done for longer than some of us have been alive. Doing it in a DAW just makes it a quicker process.

What Neal was hoping to do with his statement, was to discredit Steve Augeri and pimp up the latest replacement in his wake. Nothing more, nothing less. Previous comments about the most significant abuse of this process being TBF are very acurate. I still scratch my head when I hear the comments regarding augeri....ALL of Augeri's studio work was done within his range and comfort level...he didn't need studio help to perform his own music. He used studio tools to the same extent that JSS, Pinyata, Chalfant or anyone else uses them.

Neal must be taking disinformation lessons from Eddie Van Halen...

He did not try to discredit Augeri Frank.

[strangegrey]

He did not try to discredit Augeri Frank.

Sure he did. What do you call what he did?

He was trying to justify his reasons for giving Augeri the axe...while at the same time, pimping out JSS as a viable replacement.

Listen, I'm not making commentary here....it's fact. His reasons for saying what he said can't really be disputed.....

go ahead and try and come up with a more viable reason....