OT - Thank you, George Bush - gag

[7 Wishes]

The ultra-conservative Wall Street Journal recently gave Bush a grade of "F" on economic policy.

[Arkansas]

Yes Bush is the president but what majority party is running Congress?

Right...and it was the fault of Congress that the good people of New Orleans were completely ignored by our government after Hurricane Katrina devastated their city! Definitely another one of Bush's "shining moments"!


John from Boston

The main problem in New Orleans was their own fault! They & their local leadership had no precautions or plans in place for disaster. Kinda like the kid that should have had his passport, New Orleans wasn't prepared for what 'could be'. Did the Fed drag their feet in helping after the fact? Sure, you bet. However, if the locals would have gotten off their collective a$$ and been prepared, then the situation wouldn't have been nearly as bad. Geez. I mean, the coast of Mississippi was wiped off the map! Did they cry & whine? Seems that most of New Orleans was just sitting around waiting for a hand-out. Why they re-elected Nagin is beyond me. Where's his '100 day plan'? I guess we'll see what happens with the next hurricane & flooding.


later~

[RedWingFan]

The ultra-conservative Wall Street Journal recently gave Bush a grade of "F" on economic policy.

The Opinion Journal portion of the Jounal is conservative. Is that what you're talking about?

[RossValoryRocks]

Keep in mind that W inherited a recession in '01 followed by a terrorist attack.

This is the most monstrous piece of propagandist bullshit I have EVER read on this board. The economy Clinton handed over to Bush was in near-perfect shape...despite some ballyhooing about the "dotcom bubble"...you are SO FUCKING INCREDIBLY FULL OF SHIT. Stop trying to blame your miserable President's failings on his predecessor.

Ummm...no it isn't...When President Bush was sworn in the recession had already commenced, that's a fact.

http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2002/n ... light.html

It only lasted 1 quarter...but then 9/11 happened.

As I have said before there are a TON of things this administration has done wrong, but to blame everything on the President is exceedingly stupid.

The economy didn't start its down turn until the DEMOCRATS too control of congress...and the gas and oil prices didn't start taking off until then either...should we then blame the democrats for this??? No we shouldn't. There are many geo-political/economic reasons for the housing crisis and the price of oil, the democratic congess has no control over them, and guess what...neither does the President.

Get a grip on yourself 7W and realize that while it is convienent to blame the President, or congress many of these things are beyond the control of government, though you libs think that everything SHOULD be under the governments control, and THAT is where I am different than you and the other libs, I believe the PEOPLE are better off with LESS government (Which is one of the things I dislike about this administration and the previous republican congress) not more, and that if you give people control of their own destiny and money they will do great things.

[CatEyes]

[...]
As I have said before there are a TON of things this administration has done wrong, but to blame everything on the President is exceedingly stupid.
[...]

Especially when EVERYONE knows that EVERYTHING is Steve Perry's fault



Cat

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yes Bush is the president but what majority party is running Congress?

Yeah, by a hair's breadth margin of one vote - Lieberman, who chops the Dems efforts at the knees at every available turn.

[RedWingFan]

Yes Bush is the president but what majority party is running Congress?

Yeah, by a hair's breadth margin of one vote - Lieberman, who chops the Dems efforts at the knees at every available turn.

Lieberman was basically kicked out of the party because he dared to support the mission in Iraq.
Like Democrats don't have votes in Olympia Snow and other Repubeicans.

[lights1961]

It's common knowledge that G.W. is in Japan for his last G8 summit. The news has been showing protests all over the country because of it. I guess they don't like him over there any more than most people here do. My 17 year old son has been in Japan for the past two weeks visiting a friend of mine. He was casually walking to a train station the other day when he was stopped by a cop asking him what he was doing. It seems like the police are suspicious of Americans that aren't in the typical tourist areas right now. Since my son didn't have his passport on him to prove that he was in the country legally, he was "escorted" to the local police station for questioning by 5 of Japan's finest. His Japanese is somewhat limited, and the cops spoke no English. After about an hour, they finally found someone who spoke enough English to ask him why he was getting on the train. Once they realized he was only headed to the Imperial Palace to sightsee, they let him go, but not before scaring the pants off the poor kid. How many days before Bush is gone??

carry passport on you at all times when overseas...and its not BUSH's fault...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Lieberman was basically kicked out of the party because he dared to support the mission in Iraq.
Like Democrats don't have votes in Olympia Snow and other Repubeicans.

Snow or Specter might cccasionally cross party lines, but that's not the same as an overwhelming Democratic majority.
The fact remains that the Democratic majority hangs by one contested vote - turncoat Joe's.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Ever hear of common sense and personal responsibility? Fuck off Kayne!

That’s a pretty gross oversimplification - so much for the oxymoronic market-tested slogan of compassionate conservatism.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune was sounding the alarm long before Katrina, chronicling in detail in the years leading up to Katrina how spending for the Army Corps of Engineers re-allocated to Iraq, spelled HUGE mortal costs for Louisiana. No one cared.

The former head of the Army Corps of Engineers, Mike Parker, even resigned in 2002 after bringing eroded chunks of the levees into the administration's annual budget office and got ZERO response.

This is what happens when you elect a party whose basic guiding tenet is to cut government down to size where it can be drowned in a bathtub.

[AlteredDNA]

Ever hear of common sense and personal responsibility? Fuck off Kayne!

That’s a pretty gross oversimplification - so much for the oxymoronic market-tested slogan of compassionate conservatism.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune was sounding the alarm long before Katrina, chronicling in detail in the years leading up to Katrina how spending for the Army Corps of Engineers re-allocated to Iraq, spelled HUGE mortal costs for Louisiana. No one cared.

The former head of the Army Corps of Engineers, Mike Parker, even resigned in 2002 after bringing eroded chunks of the levees into the administration's annual budget office and got ZERO response.

This is what happens when you elect a party whose basic guiding tenet is to cut government down to size where it can be drowned in a bathtub.

Are you trying to say that the levees would have been able to withstand Katrina had the storm hit in 2000 or before?

If so, you are severely uninformed on this topic.

[Eric]

Ever hear of common sense and personal responsibility? Fuck off Kayne!

That’s a pretty gross oversimplification - so much for the oxymoronic market-tested slogan of compassionate conservatism.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune was sounding the alarm long before Katrina, chronicling in detail in the years leading up to Katrina how spending for the Army Corps of Engineers re-allocated to Iraq, spelled HUGE mortal costs for Louisiana. No one cared.

The former head of the Army Corps of Engineers, Mike Parker, even resigned in 2002 after bringing eroded chunks of the levees into the administration's annual budget office and got ZERO response.

This is what happens when you elect a party whose basic guiding tenet is to cut government down to size where it can be drowned in a bathtub.

1) Fucker is underwater
2) Levee not W's fault

[Eric]

Keep in mind that W inherited a recession in '01 followed by a terrorist attack.

This is the most monstrous piece of propagandist bullshit I have EVER read on this board. The economy Clinton handed over to Bush was in near-perfect shape...despite some ballyhooing about the "dotcom bubble"...you are SO FUCKING INCREDIBLY FULL OF SHIT. Stop trying to blame your miserable President's failings on his predecessor.

You call me full of shit and then don't know that Q4-2000 and Q1-2001 showed zero-negative growth???? HUH!!!???? W's tax cuts spurred the economy in Q2-2000. The GDP is comprised 2/3 of consumer spending...so if you want to stimulate growth you give people more of their money to spend. 9-11 occurred in Q3 and we began war-time deficit spending. The biggest issue under W's watch is allowing the dollar to fall so low (it being lower isn't a totally bad thing to some extent) that it has affected gas prices like it has. The mortgage crisis is BS, stocks are coming back down to normal levels, interest rates are NICE AND LOW (Hello 2 mortgages under 6%), and unemployment is relatively low.

So...7 Wishes...FUCK YOU. DO some research before you attack someone you piece of shit!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Are you trying to say that the levees would have been able to withstand Katrina had the storm hit in 2000 or before?

If so, you are severely uninformed on this topic.

Enlighten me.

The Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, created by Clinton and the Repubs, was gutted under Bush. And the Army Corps of Engineers faced the largest budget cut in their history.

Even if the levees did fall, there was no need for the aftermath to be bungled as badly as it was.
Under Clinton, competent public servants with disaster relief experience ran FEMA, the agency also reported directly under the President.
Under Bush, the reins of FEMA were handed off to the former head of an Arabian horse sporting group ("heckuva job, Brownie").

This sort of cronyism has been witnessed in every level of the Bush white house.

[separate_wayz]

Other Gross Offenses of G. Bush, President:

1. Ruben Studdard winning American Idol, Season 2.

2. Not enough cowbell in "Don't Fear the Reaper", Blue Oyster Cult.

[AlteredDNA]

Are you trying to say that the levees would have been able to withstand Katrina had the storm hit in 2000 or before?

If so, you are severely uninformed on this topic.

Enlighten me.

The Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, created by Clinton and the Repubs, was gutted under Bush. And the Army Corps of Engineers faced the largest budget cut in their history.

Even if the levees did fall, there was no need for the aftermath to be bungled as badly as it was.
Under Clinton, competent public servants with disaster relief experience ran FEMA, the agency also reported directly under the President.
Under Bush, the reins of FEMA were handed off to the former head of an Arabian horse sporting group ("heckuva job, Brownie").

This sort of cronyism has been witnessed in every level of the Bush white house.

Nice job of backtracking there. Your initial claim appeared to state that due to Bush, the levees of New Orleans had deteriorated from Fort Knox type strength down to nothing more than beaver dams, and I was simply stating it didn't hold water.

The levee / pump system in New Orleans had / has been in atrocious shape for decades.

As to the handling of the aftermath, EVERYONE deserves blame, starting primarily at the local level.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Nice job of backtracking there. Your initial claim appeared to state that due to Bush, the levees of New Orleans had deteriorated from Fort Knox type strength down to nothing more than beaver dams, and I was simply stating it didn't hold water.

The levee / pump system in New Orleans had / has been in atrocious shape for decades.

As to the handling of the aftermath, EVERYONE deserves blame, starting primarily at the local level.

I did nothing of the sort. I merely stated a fact.
Over a period of two years (2004-2005), the New Orleans Times-Picayune laid in detail how Bush’s budget took funds away from fortifying the levees and protecting pumping stations, with the Jefferson Parish emergency mngt. chief at one point lamenting:

“It appears the money has been moved from in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished,…”

[RossValoryRocks]

Nice job of backtracking there. Your initial claim appeared to state that due to Bush, the levees of New Orleans had deteriorated from Fort Knox type strength down to nothing more than beaver dams, and I was simply stating it didn't hold water.

The levee / pump system in New Orleans had / has been in atrocious shape for decades.

As to the handling of the aftermath, EVERYONE deserves blame, starting primarily at the local level.

I did nothing of the sort. I merely stated a fact.
Over a period of two years (2004-2005), the New Orleans Times-Picayune laid in detail how Bush’s budget took funds away from fortifying the levees and protecting pumping stations, with the Jefferson Parish emergency mngt. chief at one point lamenting:

“It appears the money has been moved from in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished,…”

Ok...let try something a bit more factual..."It appears..." is a leading statement, it means that is what it looks like...but we could be wrong...so find me another source that says the same thing...

[Enigma869]

The main problem in New Orleans was their own fault!

We'll agree to disagree on this point. Blaming citizens of a particular area for a natural disaster is VERY short-sighted, and in my opinion, ridiculous! The premise that has been advanced by some, that all everyone had to do was jump in their car and escape is also full of assumptions that are woefully inaccurate! For starters, New Orleans is one of the most economically depressed cities in this country, and always has been (and that was long before Katrina unleashed her fury). There are endless people in that city that didn't have vehicles to escape in, and had ZERO means of getting out of that city! If you truly want to blame citizens for not being as financially solvent as you might be, then you're entitled to do so. I simply don't cast aspersions on others, who may not have all the means and opportunity, that some of us might have!

They & their local leadership had no precautions or plans in place for disaster.

I don't agree with this, either. Hindsight is 20/20. This is the ultimate "Monday Morning Quarterback" statement. The truth of the matter is that there is no part of this country that wouldn't have been completely devastated by a category 5 hurricane. If you don't believe that, ask the folks of Homestead, Florida who endured the wrath of Hurricane Andrew back in the early 1990's. The best laid plans on the planet can be completely wrecked (and usually are) by this magnitude of a storm!

Did the Fed drag their feet in helping after the fact? Sure, you bet.

This is my nominee for the understatement of the year! The way the government reacted to the Katrina disaster was DISGRACEFUL, and ANYONE with the stones to defend the government's reaction (or lack thereof) to the desperate cries for help, should be ashamed to call themselves an American! I was embarrassed to be a citizen of this country, watching that debacle unfold! Regardless of what party you cast your vote for...there will NEVER, EVER, EVER be an excuse that justifies how the Bush administration handled the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina (and yes, I absolutely blame him, 1000%)!


John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

Ok...let try something a bit more factual..."It appears..." is a leading statement, it means that is what it looks like...but we could be wrong...so find me another source that says the same thing...

Seek it out yourself.
An array of disaster relief mandarins have spoken out against Bush's maladept handling of Katrina.
Including Michael "heckuva job Brownie" Brown himself.

[RossValoryRocks]

Ok...let try something a bit more factual..."It appears..." is a leading statement, it means that is what it looks like...but we could be wrong...so find me another source that says the same thing...

Seek it out yourself.
An array of disaster relief mandarins have spoken out against Bush's maladept handling of Katrina.
Including Michael "heckuva job Brownie" Brown himself.

If you bring up a point in a debate, it's your job to back up your claim. I am not refuting you, I am asking for more info, and sorry I just don't take people at their word.

1 source, with a questionable quote, and no direct link hardly backs up your talking point here.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Regardless of what party you cast your vote for...there will NEVER, EVER, EVER be an excuse that justifies how the Bush administration handled the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina (and yes, I absolutely blame him, 1000%)!
John from Boston

This adminstration is only adept at one thing - press conferences.
From the flight suit aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln to speechifying about the robust economy in front of a backdrop of chinese-made boxes with made in america stickers on them, this administration is only good for bullshit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If you bring up a point in a debate, it's your job to back up your claim. I am not refuting you, I am asking for more info, and sorry I just don't take people at their word.

1 source, with a questionable quote, and no direct link hardly backs up your talking point here.

Feel free to enter the quotes into google.
With the exception of the Times Picayune, I am going mostly on memory here.

[7 Wishes]

Bush has mangled the economy. Even his own ardent supporters acknowledge that.

There was no recession until 2002. It had ZERO to do with Clinton and EVERYTHING to do with W's horrendous economic policies.

W will have the honor of presiding over - and being the cause of - two recessions. He will thus become the only President to accomplish that dubious task.

Plain and simple, there was an ACTUAL budget surplus the last three years of the Clinton Administration. It only took dumbfuck W two years to completely ruin it.

[Arkansas]

The main problem in New Orleans was their own fault!

We'll agree to disagree on this point. Blaming citizens of a particular area for a natural disaster is VERY short-sighted, and in my opinion, ridiculous! The premise that has been advanced by some, that all everyone had to do was jump in their car and escape is also full of assumptions that are woefully inaccurate! For starters, New Orleans is one of the most economically depressed cities in this country, and always has been (and that was long before Katrina unleashed her fury). There are endless people in that city that didn't have vehicles to escape in, and had ZERO means of getting out of that city! If you truly want to blame citizens for not being as financially solvent as you might be, then you're entitled to do so. I simply don't cast aspersions on others, who may not have all the means and opportunity, that some of us might have!

They & their local leadership had no precautions or plans in place for disaster.

I don't agree with this, either. Hindsight is 20/20. This is the ultimate "Monday Morning Quarterback" statement. The truth of the matter is that there is no part of this country that wouldn't have been completely devastated by a category 5 hurricane. If you don't believe that, ask the folks of Homestead, Florida who endured the wrath of Hurricane Andrew back in the early 1990's. The best laid plans on the planet can be completely wrecked (and usually are) by this magnitude of a storm!

Did the Fed drag their feet in helping after the fact? Sure, you bet.

This is my nominee for the understatement of the year! The way the government reacted to the Katrina disaster was DISGRACEFUL, and ANYONE with the stones to defend the government's reaction (or lack thereof) to the desperate cries for help, should be ashamed to call themselves an American! I was embarrassed to be a citizen of this country, watching that debacle unfold! Regardless of what party you cast your vote for...there will NEVER, EVER, EVER be an excuse that justifies how the Bush administration handled the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina (and yes, I absolutely blame him, 1000%)!


John from Boston

I wasn't merely blaming individual citizens. I blame local government! What was their plan for mobilizing/evacuating people? Did they have one? If so, why did it fail? Did they expect the Fed to do it all for them? If so, why? Who - locally - took any responsibility for this mess?

Btw, didn't the hurricane move east? Wasn't it the storm surge & counter-clockwise flooding that caused most of the damage? What was NO's flood plan? Escaping the impact of a hurricane is one thing, but not having systems & processes (with integrity) for the aftermath is entirely different and local government should be held responsible by it's citizens.


later~

[Eric]

Bush has mangled the economy. Even his own ardent supporters acknowledge that.

There was no recession until 2002. It had ZERO to do with Clinton and EVERYTHING to do with W's horrendous economic policies.

W will have the honor of presiding over - and being the cause of - two recessions. He will thus become the only President to accomplish that dubious task.

Plain and simple, there was an ACTUAL budget surplus the last three years of the Clinton Administration. It only took dumbfuck W two years to completely ruin it.

There wasn't a recession in 2002....and there isn't one now. For the millionth time, a recession is when GDP is negative for 2 consecutive quarters. Stop throwing ridiculous lies out. My God!

A budget surplus merely means we were being overtaxed. That condition should NOT happen!

[RossValoryRocks]

Bush has mangled the economy. Even his own ardent supporters acknowledge that.

There was no recession until 2002. It had ZERO to do with Clinton and EVERYTHING to do with W's horrendous economic policies.

W will have the honor of presiding over - and being the cause of - two recessions. He will thus become the only President to accomplish that dubious task.

Plain and simple, there was an ACTUAL budget surplus the last three years of the Clinton Administration. It only took dumbfuck W two years to completely ruin it.

Where the fuck do you pull your "facts" from???

No recession until 2002?? There was one in 2001 that last 1 quarter...go check the study I posted above...it lasted one quarter BECAUSE of the Bush tax cuts.

We are NOT in a recession now either. You need to take a economics course or something.

[Enigma869]

We are NOT in a recession now either.

re·ces·sion /rɪˈsɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-sesh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - noun - Economics. a period of an economic contraction, sometimes limited in scope or duration.


Hmmmmmm. I guess you're right! The economy clearly isn't going through a period of "contraction" right now. In fact, it couldn't be more robust! I don't think anyone should be concerned about $5.00 for a gallon of home heating oil or over $4.00 for a gallon of gas or the complete collapse of the housing market! Now that I think of it, I'm not sure we've ever seen an economy quite this strong

John from Boston

[RossValoryRocks]

We are NOT in a recession now either.

re·ces·sion /rɪˈsɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-sesh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - noun - Economics. a period of an economic contraction, sometimes limited in scope or duration.


Hmmmmmm. I guess you're right! The economy clearly isn't going through a period of "contraction" right now. In fact, it couldn't be more robust! I don't think anyone should be concerned about $5.00 for a gallon of home heating oil or over $4.00 for a gallon of gas or the complete collapse of the housing market! Now that I think of it, I'm not sure we've ever seen an economy quite this strong

John from Boston

Yeah...because Dictionary.com is such a financial wizard.

An economic recession is defined as 2 quarters of negative growth.

While the economy certainly isn't robust, it has contracted either. GDP grew...very slightly but it grew.

What you are talking about is INFLATION.

See if you uneducated louts ever paid attention in a class perhaps you would learn the difference.

[Enigma869]

See if you uneducated louts ever paid attention in a class perhaps you would learn the difference.

Sorry fuckwad...we can't all be as omnipotent as the all-mighty RossValoryRocks! I never claimed to be a financial scholar, but you probably shouldn't be calling everyone "uneducated", just because we chose a major, other than economics, when we enrolled in college. Truth be told, I don't care what the fuck you call it! This economy is a FUCKING DISASTER! I'll leave the semantics to you! On another note, I don't know what a "lout" is, but someone worshipping Ross Valory probably shouldn't be calling anyone any derogatory names


John from Boston