Question For Our Music Experts...

[Enigma869]

Let me preface my comments that I enjoy music, immensely, but am not technically knowledgeable about how recordings and concerts are put together. Now that I have that out of the way, let me move on to some questions. I recently watched Motley Crue "Carnival of Sins" on VH1, and thought it was a bizarre concert to watch. Vince Neil's voice was barely audible on most of the tracks. My question is...Was that by design??? Do bands crank up the volume of their instrumentation and drown out the lead singer's voice (perhaps to help a struggling vocalist)???? Is it a question of their audio guys perhaps not setting the amplification up properly?? It just seemed VERY odd to me that Neil's voice was sooooo low in the mix of everything else going on. Also, when they played "Home Sweet Home", Tommy jumped from his drums onto a little portable keyboard (the thing looked like a little home Casio model, and not one that a professional musician would use). Is it possible he was actually getting those rich piano sounds out of that little "toy", or were they perhaps relying upon "Memorex"? The piano on that song is very recognizable, and I just find it hard to believe that a piano sound that realistic was coming out of what he was playing.


John from Boston

[Loneman1]

This may seem like a cop-out answer, but any of the above could be true for any given band. While it may seem like a little Casio being played, it might be being played through a pretty incredible pre-amp unit (insert Tommy Lee joke of your choice here) that could have quite a few modifiers on it, plus a huge "wall of sound" speaker setup to push it through from the stage. I am not that familiar with the Crue, but in this instance they may have been trying to muffle as much of Vince's vocals to make it sound passable after all the wear and tear. Like I said, I haven't heard much Crue let alone recent stuff, so I cant make a judgement about that, but it isn't entirely unrealistic.

[Deb]

This may seem like a cop-out answer, but any of the above could be true for any given band. While it may seem like a little Casio being played, it might be being played through a pretty incredible pre-amp unit (insert Tommy Lee joke of your choice here) that could have quite a few modifiers on it, plus a huge "wall of sound" speaker setup to push it through from the stage. I am not that familiar with the Crue, but in this instance they may have been trying to muffle as much of Vince's vocals to make it sound passable after all the wear and tear. Like I said, I haven't haven't heard much Crue let alone recent stuff, so I cant make a judgement about that, but it isn't entirely unrealistic.

I think you're right, it probably is coming from that little keyboard. From the same tour..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs_hgFhd5Z4

I like Crue and saw the Carnival of Sins tour and have the dvd, but I never thought Vince was the best singer out there. But love some of their music (especially Dr. Feelgood era).

[Don]

It could be that the tape of the show was mixed poorly. I was annoyed that I could barely hear Neal's guitar on the greatest hits Dvd during Stone in love. But when you here the the same performance on the Houston concert dvd, Neal's guitar is clear. I think the Crue show might just be a bad studio mix by Vh1.

[sniper16]

odds are the keybord tommy was playing was not what was coming out of the amps, the intro was a tape, alot of bands do this instead of hiring a keyboard player.. as for the mix those sound guys are getting a lot of money for thier effort,and as a person who has done a few tours, they get it right 99% of the time, sometimes there are spots in an arena that the speakers dont hit rightive been at an outdoor show where if you moved 10 feet from center there was hardly any sound , and 10 feet to the left of that it was perfect. as for the dvd mixes there straight from the board and would not be effected by the amps...saw VH twice no doubt they buried daves voice in the mix, although he sounded better then he has in years, it was still buried.

[texafana]

Tommy is "key lippin" on that one. Vince just plain ol sucks and they have to do what they can to minimize the fact that he simply forgets the words and mumbles half the time. I have heard he worked hard on his vocal delivery for the new tour though.

[UncleKG]

My .02.

On Tommy Lee's keyboards: He might well have been "finger syncing" to a tape, but then again, it's all about the sound samples anyway. You don't need much of a keyboard when it's MIDI'd to a sound sample of a grand piano. In other words, Friga doesn't NEED the big piano to get a big piano sound (something I'm sure his roadies would be quick to remind him of after pushing that thing around for an entire tour).

Most of you know this, but similar sound samples are often used for drums. Take Peter Criss, for example. He would barely hit the drums, but it sounded like he was swinging for the rafters with a HUGE sound coming out, and he was just tapping. The drum triggers were doing the rest. A friend of mine who's a pro musician has all of the samples of John Bonham's drums, so he can make the worst drummer with the crappiest drum kit come out sounding like the Thunder God himself.

As for Vince's vocals, that's just a bad mix job by the person editing the DVD. That may be by design if Vince's voice was weak (or weaker than usual), but you're definitely not hearing the "Front of House" sound mix on DVD, so he could have been right out front in the house mix.

If you've ever heard a recording taken directly from a soundboard, then you know that volumes vary drastically in the house mix. For example, when I sang in cover bands, our drummer played so loud that we didn't even mic his toms. So, on the soundboard recording, all you would hear is bass drum and snare drum. When he did a fill or used his cymbals, all you heard was the bleed through of those that were picked up by the snare and bass drum mics, or from the vocal mics.

I've also heard recordings where the guitarist was down in the mix (because he was loud enough with just his amps) until he played a solo, then the sound man would crank the volume up for the house mix, then pull it back down when the guitarist switched back to rhythm.

That overexplains it, and most of you already know all of this, but for the few who may not have, there you go.

[Deb]

My .02.

On Tommy Lee's keyboards: He might well have been "finger syncing" to a tape, but then again, it's all about the sound samples anyway. You don't need much of a keyboard when it's MIDI'd to a sound sample of a grand piano. In other words, Friga doesn't NEED the big piano to get a big piano sound (something I'm sure his roadies would be quick to remind him of after pushing that thing around for an entire tour).

Most of you know this, but similar sound samples are often used for drums. Take Peter Criss, for example. He would barely hit the drums, but it sounded like he was swinging for the rafters with a HUGE sound coming out, and he was just tapping. The drum triggers were doing the rest. A friend of mine who's a pro musician has all of the samples of John Bonham's drums, so he can make the worst drummer with the crappiest drum kit come out sounding like the Thunder God himself.

As for Vince's vocals, that's just a bad mix job by the person editing the DVD. That may be by design if Vince's voice was weak (or weaker than usual), but you're definitely not hearing the "Front of House" sound mix on DVD, so he could have been right out front in the house mix.

If you've ever heard a recording taken directly from a soundboard, then you know that volumes vary drastically in the house mix. For example, when I sang in cover bands, our drummer played so loud that we didn't even mic his toms. So, on the soundboard recording, all you would hear is bass drum and snare drum. When he did a fill or used his cymbals, all you heard was the bleed through of those that were picked up by the snare and bass drum mics, or from the vocal mics.

I've also heard recordings where the guitarist was down in the mix (because he was loud enough with just his amps) until he played a solo, then the sound man would crank the volume up for the house mix, then pull it back down when the guitarist switched back to rhythm.

That overexplains it, and most of you already know all of this, but for the few who may not have, there you go.

I'm one of those.....and thanks.

[RumTumJM]

Maybe I'm being the devil's advocate, but could it be coming out of that keyboard, and he is using such an odd instrument since that was what got him the sound originally (or a very similar keyboard)?

Also, in the event he IS key syncing, he must be doing it to himself. I know the history is that Tommy did indeed come up with that keyboard intro, leading to the song being written.