The WTF Annex Message Board - My Thoughts

by **mgstar1964** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:40 am

Hello all,

I just posted the following on the WTF message board, as hosted by Beshad and others formerly from MRcom ... I am getting rather disgusted with the verbal bashing and treatment of Arnel and Journey at this point, from all sides (here, as well as at the WTF forum), and wanted to share some thoughts on this subject ... If it offends people, thats okay, as well, but I had to vent ..

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I have been very silent here as an obeserver really, but I have posted at MR.com, as well as Journey's board ...

It is very disconcerting to me about people like AR's attitude toward Arnel, as well as overall negativity towards the band, in general. I mean, everyone here loves Steve Perry and what he WAS to the band back in the day ... So do everyone at Journeymusic.com, as well as MR.com - that is neve gonig to be debated. It just seems like there is so much hatred to the band now, even though they have a new vocalist who is fan-friendly, humble and sincere, and really does have great energy and stage presence. However, that's not good enough here - I've never known anyone to boycott a company and their products / services, because an employee was fired, yet thats what this board seems to exist for - to be angry and negative towards the band because of their treatment or dismissal of JSS. Lets just get over that - its been 14 months since that happened, he's moved on, recorded a new album, and based on the sound of his new song, he was totally not the right fit for Journey. Nobody wants to hear Journey doing "Testify" and his other JSS-style stuff ... this is NOT the new direction that the band should go in, in my humble opinion. They have sold almost 500,000 "Units" and almost 1,000,000 CDs (according to RIAA standards) - suddenly, its not good enoguh to follow the RIAA standards, and its a "fake Gold album" and a "fake Platinum album", etc. HOGWASH ... what's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say ... It is not Journey's fault that the CD retail market in 2008 is nowhere what it was even 10 years ago - the rules of the game have changed FOR EVERY ARTIST, not just them .... so it seems like certain fans are holding them up to a "double-standard" because they are still upset that JSS "their hero and savior" is no longer with the band ... Things like this happen all the time - why was he designated to be the deity-like figure, where only he, and he alone, could save the band.

So, was his firing wrong? Perhaps in the WAY they did it, but not necessarily for the reasons they did it. Why should everybody here feel the need to villify them and cruicify them, and give up their many years of "Journey Fan-Dom", when they always cared about the music, first and foremost? We didn't give up on the band when Perry, while still an active part of Journey, screwed over everyone, including his fellow bandmates and of course, us, the fans ... Yet, we didn't hold that against either Journey OR PERRY, and many still love Perry to this day, despite his 10 years of continued silence. So why the double standard? Because the mighty "JSS" was cast aside for a more appropriate "Journey-style" singer - at this point in their careers, 98% of the 10,000-15,000 fans attending their sold-out shows every night WANT to hear that "sound" - the masses and the numbers speak ...

And just because they are in a package tour with Cheap Trick and Heart, by Live Nation, doesn't diminish them - that is the economy of the 2008 touring model, for all bands, not just them .... Most bands out there, except for Springsteen, The Police, Eagles, and a few of the top elite touring bands, use that model ...

So, just because that Journey is no longer in that "Top 10 Touring Band" elite model, doesn't make them no longer viable or irrelevant ... they still have a VERRYY strong and loyal fanbase, despite the angry 10-20 people on this board who hold grudges and can't let go of anything from the past ... its rather troubling and saddening, actually ... To see people like AR, who, I'm told, is a really nice guy, in person, spew this hatred and venom, is not positive energy at all ... a total waste ... sad ...

Overall, I'm in this for the music, and my fandom of Journey is not diminished by the addition or subtraction of one member ... at least there is a Journey to continue providing us new music and concert tours in 2008, rather than the 10-year vacuum silence that we had with Sir Steve Perry ...

Just my .02 ...

Regards,

Michael G.

by **epresley** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:48 am

Man, I'm TOTALLY behind the band, right now, and in the future. I can't say enough nice things about Arnel.

by **CatEyes** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:55 am

MGSTAR1964

If you return to WTF, you will see my reply there.

Out of respect for Drew, I will not post it here.

I don't see why you could not just post your thoughts on both boards without mentioniong WTF here.

I know Drew is not interested in any fighting between the boards - and neither is anyone at WTF.

Many of the members of WTF and of MR post on both boards without dramatic pronouncement.

Apologies, Drew.

Cat

by **RobbieG** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:02 am

MGSTAR1964 great post. I totally agree. You are on the money.

by **Michigan Girl** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:10 am

mgstar1964 wrote:
Just my .02 ...

Regards,

Michael G.

That's the thing about .02's, everybody has them...... :wink:

by **conversationpc** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:12 am

mgstar1964 wrote:It just seems like there is so much hatred to the band now, even though they have a new vocalist who is fan-friendly, humble and sincere, and really does have great energy and stage presence.

Agreed. I love Arnel's voice and his good-guy attitude. The antics onstage can be annoying at times but at least the guy looks like he's alive up there instead of planted in one spot.

However, that's not good enough here - I've never known anyone to boycott a company and their products / services, because an employee was fired, yet thats what this board seems to exist for - to be angry and negative towards the band because of their treatment or dismissal of JSS. Lets just get over that - its been 14 months since that happened, he's moved on, recorded a new album, and based on the sound of his new song, he was totally not the right fit for Journey. Nobody wants to hear Journey doing "Testify" and his other JSS-style stuff ... this is NOT the new direction that the band should go in, in my humble opinion.

This isn't comparable. The solo music JSS is doing now is in no way related to what he might've done in Journey except it would have been his voice. He wrote that solo album with other writers and musicians and, as such, has no bearings on what Journey would've sounded like with him as the front man.

So, was his firing wrong? Perhaps in the WAY they did it, but not necessarily for the reasons they did it. Why should everybody here feel the need to villify them and cruicify them, and give up their many years of "Journey Fan-Dom", when they always cared about the music, first and foremost? We didn't give up on the band when Perry, while still an active part of Journey, screwed over everyone, including his fellow bandmates and of course, us, the fans ... Yet, we didn't hold that against either Journey OR PERRY, and many still love Perry to this day, despite his 10 years of continued silence. So why the double standard? Because the mighty "JSS" was cast aside for a more appropriate "Journey-style" singer - at this point in their careers, 98% of the 10,000-15,000 fans attending their sold-out shows every night WANT to hear that "sound" - the masses and the numbers speak ...

Can't argue with that.

by **Lula** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:17 am

awwww come on, leave jss out of all this bs. journey are on the road doing what they do best. move on and realize the majority of folks are happy.

by **Ratgirl** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:18 am

And that's a good reason why I dont post at either of those forums anymore. Too much drama and BS.

Jeff has moved on & Journey has moved on.. that's good enough for me. Criticizing the band and their direction surely
isn't doing any good.

by **amaron** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:19 am

When you walk in the sewers don't be surprised when you get shit on your shoes.

by **Tito** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:24 am

Lula wrote:awwww come on, leave jss out of all this bs. journey are on the road doing what they do best. move on and realize the majority of folks are happy.

\

That will be Uncle Tito's birthday present to Wyatt.

by **mgstar1964** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:29 am

Hi all,

I posted my thoughts out of venting / frustration, because of all the negativity - I'm not trying to crucify JSS - far from it - I actually enjoyed his time in the band, and I had the privilege of seeing him 4X on that tour - I was in his camp when he was with the band, but when he exited, it was time for a new direction for both the band, and JSS ...

Lula, I do agree with you - most of the fans are generally happy - fans of both JSS and Journey - I was just posting becuase I was disheartened by all of the negativity and "Journey-bashing" at the WTF forum - nothing more, nothing less ...

Under the heading of, "If you don't have anything good to say about something, then don't say anything at all." A good motto to live by ...

And just to clarify, I have been a longtime, daily reader of the MR.com forums, as well as the Journeymusic.com message boards since 1998, when Andrew first broke the news about Perry and Augeri, etc. I have followed EVERY raging debate with Deano, and the various casts of characters at both boards, over the years, and have been a diehard supporter of the band and their music, through thick and thin, a proud card-carrying member since 1986. I may not post actively except to post reviews of concerts, and a few other issues, but for some reason, I just hit my breaking point when I read the board and the useless, negative attacks, today ...

Regards,

Michael

by **Don** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:29 am

More so at WTF, but even here, there are people that won't like this incarnation of Journey, but that's the beauty of the place. We can all share our opinions without fear of a pro-Journey moderator banning us (as long as we don't cross the bounds and use some common sense ). We only talk about Journey here half the time anyway, and WTF prides itself for it's open discussion, no holds barred policy. I'm not sure what your looking for. If it's all Journey in a positve light all the time, than the official Journey board is the place to be, but if you want to be were people are honest and don't mind stating their opinions, than this is the place.

by **lights1961** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:31 am

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by **Don** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:44 am

Cateyes is right
As you mentioned AR, who nonger is a member here, this post should have been left over there at WTF, as AR can't post here to make a rebuttal (well he probably could it if he really wanted to just to make a point). Of course you can do what you want but your way of "venting"
by mentioning JSS, has invalidated your whole point concerning peoples attitudes towards Arnel.

by **Rick** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:45 am

I appreciate what you're saying here, but it's like beating your head against the wall. There's a small contingent that's hell bent on belittling Journey and Arnel, and they'll keep doing it as long as their little narrow minds drive them to. Not sure what the point is either. Good post btw.

by **mgstar1964** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:49 am

Gunbot,

Point taken - I can see that your post has some validity, as well ... perhaps mentioning JSS was not really appropriate - I was just trying to show how thats all that seems to get discussed at the other forum ... I originally joined the other forum because I like Deano a lot, and love the fact that he always has knowledge of the workings of the band, their issues, etc. He has a deep understanding and true passion for the band, and that is why I had signed up over there, when he created the forum a few months ago.

I know that Ed can't really respond here (for a multitude of reasons), but I only vented because I was a bit frustrated at all of the constant negativity, instead of accepting things as they are for the time being, and moving on, as JSS himself has appeared to do (Kudos to him) ...

Regards,

Michael

by **bluejeangirl76** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:55 am

CatEyes wrote:Many of the members of WTF and of MR post on both boards without dramatic pronouncement.

THANK you. I belong to both plus one other that's had some "issues" with MR and its members, and I post fairly and with no involvement of other boards or clashing with members. Ummm... can't we all just get along? :shock:

And to the original poster...

You can't really complain about people Journey slamming when in the last sentence you threw a swipe at Perry. That basically lost you some credibility.

by **lights1961** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:04 am

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
CatEyes wrote:Many of the members of WTF and of MR post on both boards without dramatic pronouncement.

THANK you. I belong to both plus one other that's had some "issues" with MR and its members, and I post fairly and with no involvement of other boards or clashing with members. Ummm... can't we all just get along?

And to the original poster...

You can't really complain about people Journey slamming when in the last sentence you threw a swipe at Perry. That basically lost you some credibility.

if we all got along message boards would be so boring. I loved every carnation of Journey
until what happened to JSS--Now I feel for Arnel, because same thing will happen to him,
just because the pattern of Jon and Neal.

Rick

by **conversationpc** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:09 am

bluejeangirl76 wrote:And to the original poster...

You can't really complain about people Journey slamming when in the last sentence you threw a swipe at Perry. That basically lost you some credibility.

He's correct about that, though, and it's not really a "swipe".

by **Lora** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:09 am

Gunbot wrote:I'm not sure what your looking for. If it's all Journey in a positve light all the time, than the official Journey board is the place to be

Exactly. And why bring negative stuff that is happening on another forum over to this one?

mgstar1964 - how about your comment that Steve Perry "screwed over everyone, including his fellow bandmates and of course, us, the fans." So it's okay for you to post negative b.s. and it's okay for you to decide that Jeff wasn't the direction the band should take. But it's not okay for anyone to post negative comments about the new line up? Maybe you try practicing what you preach about not making comments at all if you don't have something nice to say.

by **bluejeangirl76** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:21 am

Lora wrote:
Gunbot wrote:I'm not sure what your looking for. If it's all Journey in a positve light all the time, than the official Journey board is the place to be

Exactly. And why bring negative stuff that is happening on another forum over to this one?

mgstar1964 - how about your comment that Steve Perry "screwed over everyone, including his fellow bandmates and of course, us, the fans." So it's okay for you to post negative b.s. and it's okay for you to decide that Jeff wasn't the direction the band should take. But it's not okay for anyone to post negative comments about the new line up? Maybe you try practicing what you preach about not making comments at all if you don't have something nice to say.

Heh heh.

See above. I had the very same thought.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

That dang Perry!... everything is still his fault, I see.... :roll:

I notice most of the same people who love to champion current Journey and rally on forever about how the band and the fans are moving on, are the same ones who can't move on from that sad old argument.

Diagnosis: Lame.

by **Rhiannon** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:23 am

bluejeangirl76 wrote:That dang Perry!... everything is still his fault, I see....

Global Warming is Perry's fault.

by **RedWingFan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:25 am

Rhiannon wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:That dang Perry!... everything is still his fault, I see....

Global Warming is Perry's fault.

Are you implying he's sucking up all the oxygen and blowing out an inordinate amount of CO2? :lol:

by **mgstar1964** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:26 am

Lora,

For the record, I am a huge SP fan since 1984, when I first learned about Journey / SP solo music ...

Have followed every aspect of his career, and I know your association and past history with him goes very deep ...

I support him in EVERYTHING that he does, including all of the re-mastered CDs (solo & Journey remasters), the DVD releases, and even the David Pack CD ... I read the steveperryfans website regularly, and I even had one of my own questions answered during his Q&A for the remasters in Dec. 2006 - and I'm very grateful that he chose one of my questions to reply to, out of the thousands which were submitted ...

I would love nothing more than to hear his voice again, even if it were an r&b covers CD, etc.

However, he chooses to be silent, for reasons known only to him, and his immediate circle. I was not really "slamming" SP, as I love and respect him and his music dearly ... I was merely trying to point out that we all have supported both him and the band, even during the 10-year hiatus, and that it is interesting how some other sites just seem to exist to foster negativity, instead of having some respect for all parties ... I love Journey (all incarnations), and I also love SP and will support him in any future endeavours or projects of his. I will even support Steve Augeri and will purchase his Tall Stories 2 CD when it is eventually released ...

Hope that clarifies things a bit ...

Regards,

Michael

by **conversationpc** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:27 am

Rhiannon wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:That dang Perry!... everything is still his fault, I see....

Global Warming is Perry's fault.

Nah, it's still that damn George Bush. :lol:

by **Rhiannon** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:29 am

RedWingFan wrote:Are you implying he's sucking up all the oxygen and blowing out an inordinate amount of CO2?

Old men are gassy. Coupled with the CFC's from all the cans of aqua net he used during the ROR tour... well. Yeah.

by **Rick** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:30 am

conversationpc wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:That dang Perry!... everything is still his fault, I see....

Global Warming is Perry's fault.

Nah, it's still that damn George Bush.

I smell a derailed thread coming. :lol:

by **Rhiannon** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:30 am

conversationpc wrote:Nah, it's still that damn George Bush.

Dubya Shrub!! :lol:

by **epresley** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:30 am

conversationpc wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:That dang Perry!... everything is still his fault, I see....

Global Warming is Perry's fault.

Nah, it's still that damn George Bush.

Dubya dissed Journey? Damn.

by **Rhiannon** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:31 am

Rick wrote:I smell a derailed thread coming.

It's uhh... what I do. No one likes drama. Nothing better to take care of it than ninja that shit right on out tha' door! :wink:

MR

The WTF Annex Message Board - My Thoughts

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