OT: Patriots Are DONE!

[Saint John]

I think a QB should be able to move better than Frankenstein.

Getting back to the original argument I'd like to add that Jerry Rice was the best football player I've ever seen and Walter Payton was the toughest.

[Michigan Girl]

You cheat.....it comes back to bite you!!

Fuck you.

Wow 7.......

[7 Wishes]

Just to clear things up...I think it's pretty shitty to suggest it's karma" - a guy's career could be over, and supposedly he and the team "deserve it" because they "cheated"? I can't stand Manning and the Colts, but the only satisfying way to beat him and the team is to outperform him - not root for him to get seriously injured.

[mikemarrs]

this has been a wild crazy upside down start to a season if there ever was one.the patriots lose brady for the year.then the colts lose at home in its first game in its brand new stadium.the chargers lose with no time left to the panthers at home.the titans which many picked to finish last in the south was the only team in its division to win.buffalo destroys the seahawks with no problem.some critics said mcnabb was washed up and he comes out and throws for damn near 400 yards.of course the jets and favre are clicking pretty good so far.....

[Luvsaugeri]

Just to clear things up...I think it's pretty shitty to suggest it's karma" - a guy's career could be over, and supposedly he and the team "deserve it" because they "cheated"? I can't stand Manning and the Colts, but the only satisfying way to beat him and the team is to outperform him - not root for him to get seriously injured.

And just to be clear to you since your reading ability seems to be about as good as your command of the english language.....I said in my original post that I hate to see any player get hurt. I never once said he deserved it. And "root for him to get hurt"??? Love how you take one comment that was in regards to Belichick and turn it into all of this.

Give me a fucking break. You ASSume alot!!

[strangegrey]

It's been said already in this thread....but I'll add my two cents.

Brady getting hurt is nothing but cheaters justice. Perhaps Videochick will trip on his way to the car and split open his skull on the way down. Now that would complete a perfect season in my book! Forget about last year...this year is the year that the pats can be perfect!

[X factor]

John, we can only hope the Pats defense is extremely stingy this year and Cassel just manages a conservative game like the Pats of 2001 when Brady first stepped in.

Cassel will NOT be the QB of this team, all season. I'm not sure who it will be, but it won't be him. There is a reason the Patriots are bringing in Chris Simms already for a tryout. I wouldn't be shocked if the next call goes to Daunte Culpepper!


John from Boston

John, don't you think that's a mistake? At least Cassel has been there, no the system and the players. WHY OH WHY bring in a proven loser like Culpepper or Simms? It just doesn't make sense. I think despite their age in places, and the loss of some good players (like Gay) the Pats still have enough pieces to manage more than 4 or 5 wins...don't they???

I dunno- it's your team- you know them better than I do. It just seems silly to waste money and time on a has been.

[7 Wishes]

And just to be clear to you since your reading ability seems to be about as good as your command of the english language....

Up yours. By the way, it would be "the English language," sir.

[Saint John]

I'd call Phil Simms before I called Chris Simms. Culpepper? lol...that dude sucks. I'd call Bledsoe before him.

[Enigma869]

John, don't you think that's a mistake? At least Cassel has been there, no the system and the players. WHY OH WHY bring in a proven loser like Culpepper or Simms? It just doesn't make sense. I think despite their age in places, and the loss of some good players (like Gay) the Pats still have enough pieces to manage more than 4 or 5 wins...don't they???

I dunno- it's your team- you know them better than I do. It just seems silly to waste money and time on a has been.

Well, whether it's a "mistake" or not, the Patriots have no choice but to bring in a warm body at the QB position. It looks like it's Cassel's job to lose, because of his familiarity with the offense. Sure, the Patriots may win 6 or 7 games. That said, it's a FAR cry from what I thought was a team who would win it all! The only teams I can think of who went on to win a Super Bowl with a backup QB are the Patriots (the backup was Tom Brady), the Redskins (the backup was Doug Williams), and the Giants (the backup was Jeff Hostetler). Williams and Hostetler weren't one 100th of the QB Brady is. I believe there is a HUGE dropoff in talent between Brady and Cassel to be VERY concerned, as a fan. Also, the Patriots have a reasonable defense, but they are a VERY old defense, who won't hold up if they can never get off the field, because their offensive unit can't put sustained drives together. I guess it will at least be interesting to watch the Patriots, because I have ZERO idea what the hell is going to happen.


John from Boston

[Saint John]

The Patriots will win at least 10 games.

[Tito]

Jerry Angelo should call the Pats and see what they would offer for Rex Grossman.

[Saint John]

Jerry Angelo should call the Pats and see what they would offer for Rex Grossman.

2 old footballs, a tee and a dirty jock strap.

[Enigma869]

Jerry Angelo should call the Pats and see what they would offer for Rex Grossman.

I'm quite sure the Patriots have ZERO interest in Rex Grossman. I'm not sure they'd even offer what SJ suggested! I'll even take Cassel over Grossman! At least with Cassel, I'm not sure what I'm getting, at this point. With Grossman, I know I'm getting a guy who sucks and who isn't good enough to play for one of the worst offenses in the NFL!


John from Boston

[Luvsaugeri]

And just to be clear to you since your reading ability seems to be about as good as your command of the english language....

Up yours. By the way, it would be "the English language," sir.

Enjoy your sorry ass season!!

[Don]

Jerry Angelo should call the Pats and see what they would offer for Rex Grossman.

I'm quite sure the Patriots have ZERO interest in Rex Grossman. I'm not sure they'd even offer what SJ suggested! I'll even take Cassel over Grossman! At least with Cassel, I'm not sure what I'm getting, at this point. With Grossman, I know I'm getting a guy who sucks and who isn't good enough to play for one of the worst offenses in the NFL!


John from Boston

I think Cassel will be alright. It's pretty much a system. For the most part Brady didn't have to pull too many Doug Flutie plays. If Cassel can just keep his poise, I still see the Pats being in the playoffs. Look at the guy in Green Bay, he understands the offense, so what both these guys lack in talent can hopefully be made up for with discipline in the pocket due to to knowing the scheme.

[mikemarrs]

the titans are about to sign chris simms,but yeah his dad phil was a pretty good QB for the giants back in the day.i remember simms and parcells taking the giants to a couple super bowls.

[S2M]

the titans are about to sign chris simms,but yeah his dad phil was a pretty good QB for the giants back in the day.i remember simms and parcells taking the giants to a couple super bowls.

Hostetler - 1

Simms - 1

[Enigma869]

the titans are about to sign chris simms,but yeah his dad phil was a pretty good QB for the giants back in the day.i remember simms and parcells taking the giants to a couple super bowls.

Phil Simms was a VERY average NFL quarterback. The reality is that Simms never even passed for 25 touchdowns in a very long 14 year career. He only passed for as many as 20 TD's in a season 4 out of 14 seasons, which simply isn't very good! Also, more than half of his career, he wasn't able to pass for even 3000 yards (which is very average, by NFL QB standards). Those Giants teams won on great defense, and Simms was simply along for the ride. Simms was as responsible for the Giants success as Trent Dilfer was for the Ravens success!


John from Boston

[RossValoryRocks]

the titans are about to sign chris simms,but yeah his dad phil was a pretty good QB for the giants back in the day.i remember simms and parcells taking the giants to a couple super bowls.

Phil Simms was a VERY average NFL quarterback. The reality is that Simms never even passed for 25 touchdowns in a very long 14 year career. He only passed for as many as 20 TD's in a season 4 out of 14 seasons, which simply isn't very good! Also, more than half of his career, he wasn't able to pass for even 3000 yards (which is very average, by NFL QB standards). Those Giants teams won on great defense, and Simms was simply along for the ride. Simms was as responsible for the Giants success as Trent Dilfer was for the Ravens success!


John from Boston

Wow...insightful analysis John...I never would have guessed it would be from you!

Love ya man! Just kidding!

[Don]

Shawne Merriman is out for the season. Another potential contender hit with a setback, and it's only week one!

[mikemarrs]

it certainly takes getting used to seeing all those teams like miami dolphins,oakland raiders,san francisco 49ers lose year after year when they used to dominate the league year in and year out.

[Don]

Oakland is a disgrace. The owner wants the coach to resign and the coach is refusing (which I don't blame the coach). This drama should happen in the middle of the season, not before the first game. Truly disgusting.

[Enigma869]

Oakland is a disgrace. The owner wants the coach to resign and the coach is refusing (which I don't blame the coach). This drama should happen in the middle of the season, not before the first game. Truly disgusting.

The Raiders are one of the worst organizations in all of organized sports, and have been for years. Al Davis was a jackass, long before he became senile! I always chuckled at their dopey slogan of "Just Win Baby", when the reality is that it should be "If Only We Could Just Win Baby"! They're about as significant in the NFL as the Arizona Cardinals or the Detroit Lions. The only difference is that both Detroit and Arizona have better football teams!


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

the titans are about to sign chris simms,but yeah his dad phil was a pretty good QB for the giants back in the day.i remember simms and parcells taking the giants to a couple super bowls.

Phil Simms was a VERY average NFL quarterback. The reality is that Simms never even passed for 25 touchdowns in a very long 14 year career. He only passed for as many as 20 TD's in a season 4 out of 14 seasons, which simply isn't very good! Also, more than half of his career, he wasn't able to pass for even 3000 yards (which is very average, by NFL QB standards). Those Giants teams won on great defense, and Simms was simply along for the ride. Simms was as responsible for the Giants success as Trent Dilfer was for the Ravens success!


John from Boston

Nah, he was better than average. Not great but good.

As far as passing for 3000 yards...He did it six times, including over 4000 once. He didn't in his first three or four seasons due to being a terrible QB at the time and being injured. Then he had three consecutive seasons with 3400 or more yards, including the one season with 4000+. Then in '87, in nine games, he threw for over 2200 yards, which would average out to well over 3000 yards in a full season.

As far as TD passes, big deal. Aikman was a great quarterback without throwing a ton of TDs. The Giants were known mostly for their running game almost the entire time that Simms was there. Without looking it up, I'd almost be willing to wager that the Giants scored a higher percentage of their TDs than most other teams.

[Saint John]

Phil Simms was a very good quarterback, but more importantly he was a winner. Super Bowl MVP as well.

[Enigma869]

Nah, he was better than average.

Not in my opinion, he wasn't. He was on better than average teams (defensively), but was a very average performer!

Not great but good.

He was a serviceable NFL QB, so I'll go along with "good", but that's as far as I'm going with Simms!

As far as passing for 3000 yards...He did it six times, including over 4000 once.

Right...which means he didn't do it 10 times!

As far as TD passes, big deal. Aikman was a great quarterback without throwing a ton of TDs.

You can't be serious??? Aikman was a "great" QB??? In my opinion, he is EASILY the absolute least talented QB to ever be inducted into the HOF. Aikman was a product of the best offensive line ever assembled. He managed a game well and didn't make a lot of stupid mistakes. He also very rarely ever won Dallas any games. He wasn't close to "great", and I wouldn't rank the guy in the top 30 QB to ever play the game! The reality is that Aikman had very good receivers, one of the best tight ends in football (Novacek), and one of the best receiving fullbacks (Johnston), and still only managed to throw for 20 TD's, ONCE! The fact is that Aikman played 12 seasons in the NFL, and 9 of the 12 seasons, the guy had 16 TD's or fewer (that's less than one a game for you non-math majors), which would get most guys benched! The numbers are simply embarrassing! I watched Aikman's entire career, and can honestly tell you that the only people I have ever come across in my life who thought Aikman was an above average QB, were Dallas Cowboy fans! He is only in the HOF because the teams he was a member of won 3 championships. If they had only won a single championship, Aikman wouldn't have gotten a single vote (outside of Dallas) for the HOF!

The Giants were known mostly for their running game almost the entire time that Simms was there. Without looking it up, I'd almost be willing to wager that the Giants scored a higher percentage of their TDs than most other teams.

The Giants were known mostly for their defense when Simms was there! The reality is that although the Giants had a strong running game, during Simms time with the team, they never ranked in the top 5 in the NFL. Conversely, they never didn't rank in the top 3 with Bellichick's defense! Those are facts! In 1986 when Simms won his only Super Bowl (which by the way, was only won because Scott Norwood missed a kick), that Giants team ranked 2nd in defense, and in 1990 and Hostetler won his championship, the Giants ranked 1st in defense. I stand by my statement that Simms was a VERY, VERY, VERY average QB and the numbers don't lie!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Phil Simms was a Super Bowl MVP as well.

So were Doug Williams and Deion Branch...What's your point?


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

Not in my opinion, he wasn't. He was on better than average teams (defensively), but was a very average performer!

I disagree. His first few years in the league, he was certainly a poor quarterback but then he put together several very good seasons in a row.

As far as passing for 3000 yards...He did it six times, including over 4000 once.

Right...which means he didn't do it 10 times!

It's a moot point. MOST quarterbacks don't throw for 3000+ 10 times. Whoop-de-doo.

You can't be serious??? Aikman was a "great" QB??? In my opinion, he is EASILY the absolute least talented QB to ever be inducted into the HOF. Aikman was a product of the best offensive line ever assembled. He managed a game well and didn't make a lot of stupid mistakes. He also very rarely ever won Dallas any games. He wasn't close to "great", and I wouldn't rank the guy in the top 30 QB to ever play the game! The reality is that Aikman had very good receivers, one of the best tight ends in football (Novacek), and one of the best receiving fullbacks (Johnston), and still only managed to throw for 20 TD's, ONCE! The fact is that Aikman played 12 seasons in the NFL, and 9 of the 12 seasons, the guy had 16 TD's or fewer (that's less than one a game for you non-math majors), which would get most guys benched! The numbers are simply embarrassing! I watched Aikman's entire career, and can honestly tell you that the only people I have ever come across in my life who thought Aikman was an above average QB, were Dallas Cowboy fans! He is only in the HOF because the teams he was a member of won 3 championships. If they had only won a single championship, Aikman wouldn't have gotten a single vote (outside of Dallas) for the HOF!

Part of being a great quarterback is winning the big one. I know you've made that comment on here before. The other stuff about having great receivers, tight ends, etc., is true.

The Giants were known mostly for their defense when Simms was there!

I'm not talking defense here. Just offensively.

The reality is that although the Giants had a strong running game, during Simms time with the team, they never ranked in the top 5 in the NFL. Conversely, they never didn't rank in the top 3 with Bellichick's defense! Those are facts!

I'm not disputing that they didn't have a great defense as I've already said. However, since they had such a great defense, doesn't it also follow that would possibly give their offense less field to work with since they probably often got the benefit of having good field position to work with, giving them less room to rack up a ton of yards?

In 1986 when Simms won his only Super Bowl (which by the way, was only won because Scott Norwood missed a kick), that Giants team ranked 2nd in defense, and in 1990 and Hostetler won his championship, the Giants ranked 1st in defense.

That wasn't in 1986 was it? Early 90s, I thought.

[Enigma869]

I disagree. His first few years in the league, he was certainly a poor quarterback but then he put together several very good seasons in a row.

Still an average NFL QB with an average career!

It's a moot point. MOST quarterbacks don't throw for 3000+ 10 times. Whoop-de-doo.

Except the all-time great QB's do! 3000 yards in a season is only 187 yards per game. Would you want that production on your fantasy team?

Part of being a great quarterback is winning the big one. I know you've made that comment on here before.

You're absolutely correct about that. That is why nowhere in my post did I say he didn't belong in the HOF. I simply said that he was the least talented QB to ever be inducted. Your biggest measuring stick in the NFL is wins and losses. My position is simply that Aikman wasn't responsible for much of the winning and was simply fortunate to have himself in the best system in football, at that time. Conversely, I think a guy like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are about 80% of the reason that the Patriots and Colts have championships. Those Dallas teams were the best example of what a dominant offensive line could do, and could have won without Aikman. Hell, they made Jason Garrett look like an NFL QB, and he sucked! Emmitt Smith isn't among the top 5 running backs I've seen, but was able to put up SUPERB numbers, running behind that offensive line. If Emmitt ran behind the offensive line that Barry Sanders ran behind, he wouldn't be in the HOF, and would have zero rings!

However, since they had such a great defense, doesn't it also follow that would possibly give their offense less field to work with since they probably often got the benefit of having good field position to work with, giving them less room to rack up a ton of yards?

Absolutely. That said, if that's your position, then it is also true that Simms had FAR more opportunities than most NFL QB's to put touchdowns on the scoreboard, and failed miserably at it!

That wasn't in 1986 was it? Early 90s, I thought.

You're absolutely correct about this. As soon as I hit the submit button, I suspected that it didn't happen that early. I believe Norwood missed that kick in the Hostetler won Super Bowl, which would have been the 1990 season and the 1991 Super Bowl!


John from Boston