OT: Palin's Church Advocates "Praying Gay Away"

[Lula]

i'm thinking praying for tolerance is better. i don't care what she believes in..... however, if she becomes our veep and i'm paying her salary, yes, her (what i find to be over the top) religious beliefs are extremely relevant. i think if a person of a faith other than christianity is running for public office it becomes an issue, therefore, her's too is open to discussion. her stance on abortion, the incest or rape part is extreme, even the mccains don't agree with her on that one.

[Greg]

i'm thinking praying for tolerance is better. i don't care what she believes in..... however, if she becomes our veep and i'm paying her salary, yes, her (what i find to be over the top) religious beliefs are extremely relevant. i think if a person of a faith other than christianity is running for public office it becomes an issue, therefore, her's too is open to discussion. her stance on abortion, the incest or rape part is extreme, even the mccains don't agree with her on that one.

I have to respectfully disagree. One can't say that religion has no right in government, but at the same time say that one's religious beliefs should be a qualification for running for public office. Can't have it both ways. Unless one's church is performing acts that infringe on the rights of others or is performing illegal activity, then it should be a non-factor. This applies to every religious view.

The best thing that could ever happen is to shrink government and keep it out of our lives as much as possible. It's purpose should only be to protect us from military strikes and basic legislation.

[Lula]

i'm thinking praying for tolerance is better. i don't care what she believes in..... however, if she becomes our veep and i'm paying her salary, yes, her (what i find to be over the top) religious beliefs are extremely relevant. i think if a person of a faith other than christianity is running for public office it becomes an issue, therefore, her's too is open to discussion. her stance on abortion, the incest or rape part is extreme, even the mccains don't agree with her on that one.

I have to respectfully disagree. One can't say that religion has no right in government, but at the same time say that one's religious beliefs should be a qualification for running for public office. Can't have it both ways. Unless one's church is performing acts that infringe on the rights of others or is performing illegal activity, then it should be a non-factor. This applies to every religious view.

The best thing that could ever happen is to shrink government and keep it out of our lives as much as possible. It's purpose should only be to protect us from military strikes and basic legislation.

i am not saying religion has no right in government, it is one of our rights. religion is part of the individual, whatever they believe in is a part of their being and can often be an influence in their decision making. i'm saying that extreme beliefs are scary. i'm saying that praying for a pipeline is absurd. saying that the invasion of iraq was God's will is absurd. palin is extreme in her beliefs, or at least appears to be and extremism in any form is not good.

[walkslikealady]

Maybe what some should say is that her beliefs are relevant because she and her followers will try to force her beliefs on the country by making a law.

[Greg]

i am not saying religion has no right in government, it is one of our rights. religion is part of the individual, whatever they believe in is a part of their being and can often be an influence in their decision making. i'm saying that extreme beliefs are scary. i'm saying that praying for a pipeline is absurd. saying that the invasion of iraq was God's will is absurd. palin is extreme in her beliefs, or at least appears to be and extremism in any form is not good.

Freedom of religion is one of our rights as Americans, I definitely agree with you on that one. And, you are correct, one's belief system does often influence their decision making. Of course, that isn't limited to one's religious views, but their belief system (or lack of belief in religion) as a whole.

However, how can one truly have that freedom of religion if their religious views (or lack of) is a determining factor on getting a job or getting elected to public office? I attend a similar church such as Palin. Let's say I apply for a promotion in my company, but because my boss attends a different church or has a completely different religion, he feels I'm not qualified for that promotion based on my religion. How is that not going against my rights?

The truth is, government should NEVER tell us what we should believe in and what we should not believe in. As far as any socialism is concerned, government should only step in if someone's rights are infringed upon. Of course, our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit to happiness. What one finds absurd in faith, another finds completely normal. I happen to see nothing wrong with praying over a pipeline or asking God for His Will in whatever life brings about. If it's a new child, new job, or a pipeline, so be it. After all, there is nothing in the bible that says "Thou Shalt Not Pray Over A Pipeline!" I don't see anything extreme with that.

In the case of Palin's remarks on the invasion of Iraq, I do think it was God's Will to remove a devilish dictator such as Saddam. Why anybody would be willing to keep someone like him in a leadership role is beyond me. What I differ on is the timing. I believe we should've focused completely on Bin Laden and have gotten rid of him first before doing anything with Iraq. Who knows, maybe our occupation in Iraq wouldn't have been as involved. Who knows? But, from a Christian perspective, what I can tell you is that it is God's Will to protect Israel. These terrorist leaders such as Bin Laden or Hussein want to blow it off the map. So, when you're looking at it through a Christian perspective, what Palin said was in fact correct. Certainly looking at it through a secular perspective, it would seem absurd to make such a statement. Yet, all would agree that any terrorist leader should be taken out of power if the opportunity presents itself, whether it is through means of diplomacy or military force.

[walkslikealady]

Yeah, Saddam was evil! But should a country go to war with another country to get rid of him? Innocents on both sides were killed and there's still evil out there.

OT, are you the Greg that I met in chat many moons ago? The one who asked me all the questions like "Do you have a nose fetish?"

[Don]

If I hired an employee because they're faith was the same as mine, over a more qualified candidate who was Muslim or whatever, I'm sure I would be in line to be sued. These questions aren't even allowed to be asked. So I'm very much against them being looked at as criteria for any office in government. I don't care if you're athiest, agnostic (like myself), hindu or christian. I don't want to hear about it when you're working for me as an employee or representing me and my country.

[walkslikealady]

Oh, yeah, I could add that to people like Bin Laden or Hussein, we are the evil.

[Greg]

Maybe what some should say is that her beliefs are relevant because she and her followers will try to force her beliefs on the country by making a law.

The same can be said about Barrack Obama as well. Actually, the same can be said about any politician in any political party. It's all about forcing your beliefs on the country and making those beliefs law. Liberals say Conservatives should go along with the right to abortion and should go along with gay marriage. Conservatives say the opposite. I say the abortion topic is a very sticky topic, but marriage is something from God. The government has no business in my love life. There shouldn't be any government sponsored programs just because one is married. Likewise, the government shouldn't decide how much, if at all, charity I give to others. That should be my decision. Obama says it's our responsibility to help future generations. While I am all for top notch education (and I have no problem with being taxed for education or medical research,) I don't like the government telling me I must help someone live on disability while I'm having a hard time making ends meet myself. They should be up to the individual to give the gift of charity to help others, not because it's a law of the government.

[Greg]

Oh, yeah, I could add that to people like Bin Laden or Hussein, we are the evil.

So you agree with Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein?

[Lula]

If I hired an employee because they're faith was the same as mine, over a more qualified candidate who was Muslim or whatever, I'm sure I would be in line to be sued. These questions aren't even allowed to be asked. So I'm very much against them being looked at as criteria for any office in government. I don't care if you're athiest, agnostic (like myself), hindu or christian. I don't want to hear about it when you're working for me as an employee or representing me and my country.

bingo!

[Greg]

If I hired an employee because they're faith was the same as mine, over a more qualified candidate who was Muslim or whatever, I'm sure I would be in line to be sued. These questions aren't even allowed to be asked. So I'm very much against them being looked at as criteria for any office in government. I don't care if you're athiest, agnostic (like myself), hindu or christian. I don't want to hear about it when you're working for me as an employee or representing me and my country.

bingo!

I'm glad we finally agree!

[walkslikealady]

Oh, yeah, I could add that to people like Bin Laden or Hussein, we are the evil.

So you agree with Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein?

No...their sins (for lack of a better term) are major IMO.

But I don't agree with Bush either...hopefully, his lies are minor compared to others.

[Don]

own

i am not saying religion has no right in government, it is one of our rights. religion is part of the individual, whatever they believe in is a part of their being and can often be an influence in their decision making. i'm saying that extreme beliefs are scary. i'm saying that praying for a pipeline is absurd. saying that the invasion of iraq was God's will is absurd. palin is extreme in her beliefs, or at least appears to be and extremism in any form is not good.

Freedom of religion is one of our rights as Americans, I definitely agree with you on that one. And, you are correct, one's belief system does often influence their decision making. Of course, that isn't limited to one's religious views, but their belief system (or lack of belief in religion) as a whole.

However, how can one truly have that freedom of religion if their religious views (or lack of) is a determining factor on getting a job or getting elected to public office? I attend a similar church such as Palin. Let's say I apply for a promotion in my company, but because my boss attends a different church or has a completely different religion, he feels I'm not qualified for that promotion based on my religion. How is that not going against my rights?

The truth is, government should NEVER tell us what we should believe in and what we should not believe in. As far as any socialism is concerned, government should only step in if someone's rights are infringed upon. Of course, our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit to happiness. What one finds absurd in faith, another finds completely normal. I happen to see nothing wrong with praying over a pipeline or asking God for His Will in whatever life brings about. If it's a new child, new job, or a pipeline, so be it. After all, there is nothing in the bible that says "Thou Shalt Not Pray Over A Pipeline!" I don't see anything extreme with that.

In the case of Palin's remarks on the invasion of Iraq, I do think it was God's Will to remove a devilish dictator such as Saddam. Why anybody would be willing to keep someone like him in a leadership role is beyond me. What I differ on is the timing. I believe we should've focused completely on Bin Laden and have gotten rid of him first before doing anything with Iraq. Who knows, maybe our occupation in Iraq wouldn't have been as involved. Who knows? But, from a Christian perspective, what I can tell you is that it is God's Will to protect Israel. These terrorist leaders such as Bin Laden or Hussein want to blow it off the map. So, when you're looking at it through a Christian perspective, what Palin said was in fact correct. Certainly looking at it through a secular perspective, it would seem absurd to make such a statement. Yet, all would agree that any terrorist leader should be taken out of power if the opportunity presents itself, whether it is through means of diplomacy or military force.

If we keep that as part of doctrine, then we will never know peace from terrorists. It's like protecting the neighborhood bully. The Palestinians didn't ask for the mess they're in. Palestine and Israel were supposed to be a joint operation, but a young Sharon followed his own "Manifest of Destiny". Because we felt sorry for the Jews after WWII, we turned the other cheek over the atrocities they committed all in the name of their God. Many people forget that they were allies with Russia for awhile before they switched to our side. We can't protect them forever, not at the expense of our own security and happiness.

[Greg]

Oh, yeah, I could add that to people like Bin Laden or Hussein, we are the evil.

So you agree with Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein?

No...their sins (for lack of a better term) are major IMO.

But I don't agree with Bush either...hopefully, his lies are minor compared to others.

LOL! I agree with you!

[7 Wishes]

If we keep that as part of doctrine, then we will never know peace from terrorists. It's like protecting the neighborhood bully. The Palestinians didn't ask for the mess they're in. Palestine and Israel were supposed to be a joint operation, but a young Sharon followed his own "Manifest of Destiny". Because we felt sorry for the Jews after WWII, we turned the other cheek over the atrocities they committed all in the name of their God. Many people forget that they were allies with Russia for awhile before they switched to our side. We can't protect them forever, not at the expense of our own security and happiness.

One of the most profound, insightful, and intelligent posts ever made on this forum.

[Greg]

own

i am not saying religion has no right in government, it is one of our rights. religion is part of the individual, whatever they believe in is a part of their being and can often be an influence in their decision making. i'm saying that extreme beliefs are scary. i'm saying that praying for a pipeline is absurd. saying that the invasion of iraq was God's will is absurd. palin is extreme in her beliefs, or at least appears to be and extremism in any form is not good.

Freedom of religion is one of our rights as Americans, I definitely agree with you on that one. And, you are correct, one's belief system does often influence their decision making. Of course, that isn't limited to one's religious views, but their belief system (or lack of belief in religion) as a whole.

However, how can one truly have that freedom of religion if their religious views (or lack of) is a determining factor on getting a job or getting elected to public office? I attend a similar church such as Palin. Let's say I apply for a promotion in my company, but because my boss attends a different church or has a completely different religion, he feels I'm not qualified for that promotion based on my religion. How is that not going against my rights?

The truth is, government should NEVER tell us what we should believe in and what we should not believe in. As far as any socialism is concerned, government should only step in if someone's rights are infringed upon. Of course, our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit to happiness. What one finds absurd in faith, another finds completely normal. I happen to see nothing wrong with praying over a pipeline or asking God for His Will in whatever life brings about. If it's a new child, new job, or a pipeline, so be it. After all, there is nothing in the bible that says "Thou Shalt Not Pray Over A Pipeline!" I don't see anything extreme with that.

In the case of Palin's remarks on the invasion of Iraq, I do think it was God's Will to remove a devilish dictator such as Saddam. Why anybody would be willing to keep someone like him in a leadership role is beyond me. What I differ on is the timing. I believe we should've focused completely on Bin Laden and have gotten rid of him first before doing anything with Iraq. Who knows, maybe our occupation in Iraq wouldn't have been as involved. Who knows? But, from a Christian perspective, what I can tell you is that it is God's Will to protect Israel. These terrorist leaders such as Bin Laden or Hussein want to blow it off the map. So, when you're looking at it through a Christian perspective, what Palin said was in fact correct. Certainly looking at it through a secular perspective, it would seem absurd to make such a statement. Yet, all would agree that any terrorist leader should be taken out of power if the opportunity presents itself, whether it is through means of diplomacy or military force.

If we keep that as part of doctrine, then we will never know peace from terrorists. It's like protecting the neighborhood bully. The Palestinians didn't ask for the mess they're in. Palestine and Israel were supposed to be a joint operation, but a young Sharon followed his own "Manifest of Destiny". Because we felt sorry for the Jews after WWII, we turned the other cheek over they atrocities they committed all in the name of their God. Many people forget that they were allies with Russia for many years before they switched to our side. We can't protect them forever, not at the expense of our own security and happiness.

Like I said, I was stating that from a Christian perspective of God's Will protecting Israel. I, personally, hate all fighting and war. I certianly would choose diplomacy over military force any day, but I also am a realist and realize that diplomacy doesn't always work.

[walkslikealady]

Maybe what some should say is that her beliefs are relevant because she and her followers will try to force her beliefs on the country by making a law.

The same can be said about Barrack Obama as well. Actually, the same can be said about any politician in any political party. It's all about forcing your beliefs on the country and making those beliefs law. Liberals say Conservatives should go along with the right to abortion and should go along with gay marriage. Conservatives say the opposite. I say the abortion topic is a very sticky topic, but marriage is something from God. The government has no business in my love life. There shouldn't be any government sponsored programs just because one is married. Likewise, the government shouldn't decide how much, if at all, charity I give to others. That should be my decision. Obama says it's our responsibility to help future generations. While I am all for top notch education (and I have no problem with being taxed for education or medical research,) I don't like the government telling me I must help someone live on disability while I'm having a hard time making ends meet myself. They should be up to the individual to give the gift of charity to help others, not because it's a law of the government.

Never bothered to study it, but isn't marriage technically a legal contract in this country? And I do tend to romanticize (sp) marriage by thinking it should be about love and fidelity...not necessarily (sp) about religion.

Also, I live on disability and I feel quilty about it...feel I'm intelligent enough that I should be able to find something to make a living. On the other hand, I do know that I cannot give to an employer my best work. Also, when I worked, I wasn't a jerkoff and paid into the Social Security system so I have no problem with people receiving disability payments who have worked.

My personal gripe is people who use kids to live on...never worked a day of their life and receive welfare 'cause of kids. The ones I have knowledge of aren't very good parents either. They and their welfare Romeos get housing and food stamps/cards...sell some of the benefits to get cigs and beer.