Interesting - Journey with Arnel Documentary in the Works?

[nutz4Neal]

Thought I'd post something Journey related.

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/ent ... nd-Journey

LOL Valerie, what's Journey got to do with this forum?

Thanks for the link, hadn't seen that one...this could good.

[annie89509]

In other words, Journey owes it's 30-yr relevancy to Steve Perry's voice.

The songs, music and memories are bigger than his voice. For your argument to hold water people would have to not be interested in Journey without Steve Perry, but that simply isn't true. You're minimizing the contributions of other band members and that's not fair. It was a "team" effort. Completely removed from Journey, Perry made 2 albums. One was released (FTLOSM) and flopped and the other (Against The Wall) never even saw the light of day. He needed his teammates.

Never meant to imply that Journey was nothing without SP; never have and never will -- only that they would have been less important had SP never came into the band. I have always maintained that the sum of the trio was better than the individual. To this day, I prefer listening to his Journey songs more than his solo ones.

It was the tone of this Journey documentary announcement that rubbed me the wrong way -- as if SP was the one being minimized.

BTW, SJ , you failed to mention his 1st solo album - Street Talk.

[texafana]

Another intangible that will make record sales explode. These guys have their shit togther like never before. Or at least since about 1983. I couldn't be happier for these guys...especially Arnel.

Very, very, true.

[EightyRock]

In other words, Journey owes it's 30-yr relevancy to Steve Perry's voice.

The songs, music and memories are bigger than his voice. For your argument to hold water people would have to not be interested in Journey without Steve Perry, but that simply isn't true. You're minimizing the contributions of other band members and that's not fair. It was a "team" effort. Completely removed from Journey, Perry made 2 albums. One was released (FTLOSM) and flopped and the other (Against The Wall) never even saw the light of day. He needed his teammates.

The songs, music and memories are mostly BECAUSE of his voice. For YOUR argument to hold water, SJ, people would have to (a) have given a rat's ass about pre-Perry Journey, enough to make them be viable enough to keep a label on their own (b) have written most of the songs WITHOUT Perry's help (c) had a vocalist that was immediately recognized as "Journey" on the radio (d) had a frontman who was hell bent on getting them to the top of their game.
Journey had other singers before Perry, but they weren't as successful, talented, recognizable or driven. They might have been a "team", but he was clearly the captain.

...and you forgot about Street Talk. Yeah, that one was a real dog and didn't make any waves on the charts. Herbie warned Neal not to get Perry fired up to do a solo CD! Now which one of those Schon or Cain solo CD's sold that many copies? Refresh my memory. Team effort, my ass. More like team captain and players. So yeah, if they are still relevent today, and people still want to hear those songs, you can "blame" Perry.

[Saint John]

In other words, Journey owes it's 30-yr relevancy to Steve Perry's voice.

The songs, music and memories are bigger than his voice. For your argument to hold water people would have to not be interested in Journey without Steve Perry, but that simply isn't true. You're minimizing the contributions of other band members and that's not fair. It was a "team" effort. Completely removed from Journey, Perry made 2 albums. One was released (FTLOSM) and flopped and the other (Against The Wall) never even saw the light of day. He needed his teammates.

Never meant to imply that Journey was nothing without SP; never have and never will -- only that they would have been less important had SP never came into the band. I have always maintained that the sum of the trio was better than the individual. To this day, I prefer listening to his Journey songs more than his solo ones.

It was the tone of this Journey documentary announcement that rubbed me the wrong way -- as if SP was the one being minimized.

BTW, SJ , you failed to mention his 1st solo album - Street Talk.

Sounds like we agree on things now. And I didn't mention Street Talk but he wasn't "completely removed from Journey" at the time. He had Herbie Herbert with him. Again, when completely removed from Journey (Schon, Cain and Herbert) he's done 2 records and they were both monumental flops (in the case of FTLOSM relatively speaking). The 2 aforementioned albums seemed to lack direction, exhibited poor writing skills and lacked melody. I agree, the sum of the trio was far better than the individual. You need chemistry...which is why most "supergroups" usually don't fly. If you put together (this is hypothetical...work with me) the world's greatest singer, bassist, guitarist, keys player and drummer, there is absolutely no guarantee it would be good. Chemistry is an intangible. It's not something you can "make." Which is why I have always argued that Ross Valory was meant to play bass for Journey. He's not going to win any bass solo competitions, but within the context of Journey he doesn't have to. He's the best bassist for Journey...period!

[jrnyjetster]

In other words, Journey owes it's 30-yr relevancy to Steve Perry's voice.

The songs, music and memories are bigger than his voice. For your argument to hold water people would have to not be interested in Journey without Steve Perry, but that simply isn't true. You're minimizing the contributions of other band members and that's not fair. It was a "team" effort. Completely removed from Journey, Perry made 2 albums. One was released (FTLOSM) and flopped and the other (Against The Wall) never even saw the light of day. He needed his teammates.

Ummm...you forgot STREET TALK, his biggest solo success.

[Saint John]

In other words, Journey owes it's 30-yr relevancy to Steve Perry's voice.

The songs, music and memories are bigger than his voice. For your argument to hold water people would have to not be interested in Journey without Steve Perry, but that simply isn't true. You're minimizing the contributions of other band members and that's not fair. It was a "team" effort. Completely removed from Journey, Perry made 2 albums. One was released (FTLOSM) and flopped and the other (Against The Wall) never even saw the light of day. He needed his teammates.

Ummm...you forgot STREET TALK, his biggest solo success.

No, I didn't. I said "completely removed from Journey" and Herbie Herbert was as a big a part of Journey and its success as anyone. Herbie was Perry's manager for Street Talk. On his own you saw what the other two albums did...nothing.

[jrnyman28]

The songs, music and memories are mostly BECAUSE of his voice. For YOUR argument to hold water, SJ, people would have to (a) have given a rat's ass about pre-Perry Journey, enough to make them be viable enough to keep a label on their own (b) have written most of the songs WITHOUT Perry's help (c) had a vocalist that was immediately recognized as "Journey" on the radio (d) had a frontman who was hell bent on getting them to the top of their game.
Journey had other singers before Perry, but they weren't as successful, talented, recognizable or driven. They might have been a "team", but he was clearly the captain.

Actually, the reason SJ's argument is valid is that A) Journey had already made a change at vocals but not given time to see how well it would work; and B) The band was already changing the way the wrote and constructed songs to appeal to a larger audience...also not given time to see how well it would work.

Fact is the band gained incredible success when it included Perry. But another fact is that the band was already making changes to help acheive success...a success we can only speculate on because it was never given time. Journey just as easily might have acheived similar successes with another singer.

...and you forgot about Street Talk. Yeah, that one was a real dog and didn't make any waves on the charts.

Perry was still with Journey and Journey management at that time.

Herbie warned Neal not to get Perry fired up to do a solo CD! Now which one of those Schon or Cain solo CD's sold that many copies? Refresh my memory. Team effort, my ass. More like team captain and players.

A) Perry went for a commercail album while Neal did not.
B) Perry, because he was the vocalist, was the most visible and known entity in Journey. That does not mean he was the most talented (not saying he wasn't either) it only means he was recognized and that recognition translated into more sales. In fact, you could say that his teamwork with Journey aided in sales of Street Talk. And certainly his teamwork with Herbie did.

Please stop dismissing the talents of the group in favor of one person.

[brywool]

Neal knows what the interest in Journey's about these days. I'm sure he's got no problem with it. And actually, I agree with him- BTM was very slanted to Steve and his emotional problems. It gave Journey some great publicity and it served it's purpose.

"Journey documentary and its 30-yr history" - that's the first thing that caught my attention. Then it goes to talk about Arnel's life. Hence, my Neal comment.

I know this is starting an old argument ... but Journey would not have much of a 30-yr history without Steve Perry -- this is a fact.

Perry has NOTHING to do with "Journey at this moment in time". Their history does not need to be rehashed for the movie. Do they rehash U2's history on their concert DVDs? Did they rehash Van Halen's history for their live DVD? No. Perry doesn't need to be in a film about the band NOW. Knowing Journey and Arnel, Perry will be all over it, but it's not the Perry version of the story that they want to tell and rightly so. They want to talk about Journey NOW.
Nobody is negating Perry's contributions to the band. But for Journey at this moment in time, Steve Perry isn't involved. He'll get a nice royalty check for the songs, but there's no need to mention him. In fact, JSS would figure more into this story than Perry because they need to go through that transition.

Why do people have to constantly beat the Perry drum for everything that's happening with the band now? Nobody's saying "Oh Perry sucks" or "Perry didn't do anything". They're just saying that for Journey NOW- Perry's not relevant.

[EightyRock]

Nobody is negating Perry's contributions to the band. But for Journey at this moment in time, Steve Perry isn't involved. He'll get a nice royalty check for the songs, but there's no need to mention him. In fact, JSS would figure more into this story than Perry because they need to go through that transition.

Why do people have to constantly beat the Perry drum for everything that's happening with the band now? Nobody's saying "Oh Perry sucks" or "Perry didn't do anything". They're just saying that for Journey NOW- Perry's not relevant.

Perry's not involved at this moment in time? Hmmm...I could have sworn those were mostly songs co-written by him and popularized by his voice on the radio.
To think that he is not "relevant" to Journey's Walmart REHASH CD deal, is not seeing the forest for the trees. JWalmart wouldn't have touched them with a ten foot pole without those greatest hits.

Journey and Perry will be forever linked, whether anybody wants to "beat the drum" for their singer of the moment or not. I don't think you have anything to worry about whether he would somehow want to be a part of a new Journey documentary. I'm guessing he'd tell them where to shove their remake of history.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Yeah, when the material that SP was very involved in at one point of time with Journey was brought into the new album release through Wally World, that definitely brought SP into the issue, whether or not it was anyone's intent. Anyone and everyone who is or was a huge Journey/SP fan from the 80's wouldn't just sit silent about their thoughts, feelings and opinions about that material being part of the new album and at least in part and in some way contributing to the Wally World deal and overall success of that album.

I'm looking beyond all this though. I'm hoping for a new album in 2009 or shortly after to be released, which would consist of only new material from Journey/AP.

[annpea]

The songs, music and memories are mostly BECAUSE of his voice. For YOUR argument to hold water, SJ, people would have to (a) have given a rat's ass about pre-Perry Journey, enough to make them be viable enough to keep a label on their own (b) have written most of the songs WITHOUT Perry's help (c) had a vocalist that was immediately recognized as "Journey" on the radio (d) had a frontman who was hell bent on getting them to the top of their game.
Journey had other singers before Perry, but they weren't as successful, talented, recognizable or driven. They might have been a "team", but he was clearly the captain.

Actually, the reason SJ's argument is valid is that A) Journey had already made a change at vocals but not given time to see how well it would work; and B) The band was already changing the way the wrote and constructed songs to appeal to a larger audience...also not given time to see how well it would work.

Fact is the band gained incredible success when it included Perry. But another fact is that the band was already making changes to help acheive success...a success we can only speculate on because it was never given time. Journey just as easily might have acheived similar successes with another singer.

...and you forgot about Street Talk. Yeah, that one was a real dog and didn't make any waves on the charts.

Perry was still with Journey and Journey management at that time.

[

quote="EightyRock"] Herbie warned Neal not to get Perry fired up to do a solo CD! Now which one of those Schon or Cain solo CD's sold that many copies? Refresh my memory. Team effort, my ass. More like team captain and players.

Then, why blame Perry for Journey,s downfall. If Neal did that then Journey,s downfall started with Neal not Perry.
A) Perry went for a commercail album while Neal did not.
B) Perry, because he was the vocalist, was the most visible and known entity in Journey. That does not mean he was the most talented (not saying he wasn't either) it only means he was recognized and that recognition translated into more sales. In fact, you could say that his teamwork with Journey aided in sales of Street Talk. And certainly his teamwork with Herbie did.

Please stop dismissing the talents of the group in favor of one person.[/quote]

[brywool]

Nobody is negating Perry's contributions to the band. But for Journey at this moment in time, Steve Perry isn't involved. He'll get a nice royalty check for the songs, but there's no need to mention him. In fact, JSS would figure more into this story than Perry because they need to go through that transition.

Why do people have to constantly beat the Perry drum for everything that's happening with the band now? Nobody's saying "Oh Perry sucks" or "Perry didn't do anything". They're just saying that for Journey NOW- Perry's not relevant.

Perry's not involved at this moment in time? Hmmm...I could have sworn those were mostly songs co-written by him and popularized by his voice on the radio.
To think that he is not "relevant" to Journey's Walmart REHASH CD deal, is not seeing the forest for the trees. JWalmart wouldn't have touched them with a ten foot pole without those greatest hits.

Journey and Perry will be forever linked, whether anybody wants to "beat the drum" for their singer of the moment or not. I don't think you have anything to worry about whether he would somehow want to be a part of a new Journey documentary. I'm guessing he'd tell them where to shove their remake of history.

Like I said, he'll get his royalties. He's not singing the songs on stage, he's not promoting the album, he's not a member of the band, he's not out touring with them, Like for the past 12 years, HE'S NOT WORKING-- Jesus, why does Perry have to be in every freakin' post here? He's not relevant to Journey IN THE MOVIE THAT IS BEING MADE ABOUT JOURNEY NOW. The movie deals with Arnel's 'journey' and how the band has thrived since his addition. I'm sure it'll talk about the past but it's not completely necessary to do so. Didn't say he wasn't relevant to Journey. I'm saying that he really doesn't have a place in the film being made about "Journey in this moment in time".

[Don]

I don't see this being about Journey but more about another Overseas Filipino Worker that happened to land a great gig. Philippine T.V. has these OFW stories all the time. This will probably be more about Arnel and his tale, with Journey as the backdrop.

[brywool]

I don't see this being about Journey but more about another Overseas Filipino Worker that happened to land a great gig. Philippine T.V. has these OFW stories all the time. This will probably be more about Arnel and his tale, with Journey as the backdrop.

exactly. Arnel's the story here for sure.

[annie89509]

[
Sounds like we agree on things now. And I didn't mention Street Talk but he wasn't "completely removed from Journey" at the time. He had Herbie Herbert with him. Again, when completely removed from Journey (Schon, Cain and Herbert) he's done 2 records and they were both monumental flops (in the case of FTLOSM relatively speaking). The 2 aforementioned albums seemed to lack direction, exhibited poor writing skills and lacked melody. I agree, the sum of the trio was far better than the individual. You need chemistry...which is why most "supergroups" usually don't fly. If you put together (this is hypothetical...work with me) the world's greatest singer, bassist, guitarist, keys player and drummer, there is absolutely no guarantee it would be good. Chemistry is an intangible. It's not something you can "make." Which is why I have always argued that Ross Valory was meant to play bass for Journey. He's not going to win any bass solo competitions, but within the context of Journey he doesn't have to. He's the best bassist for Journey...period!

Sounds like you're making things up as you go along, SJ. Herbie is responsible for Street Talk's success. Without him, FTLOSM (and OTW) flopped because of poor lyrics and melody. Whaaat!?! SP needs Herbie to write the songs for him, too?

There is nothing wrong with SP's solo efforts .... nothing.

[Rick]

[
Sounds like we agree on things now. And I didn't mention Street Talk but he wasn't "completely removed from Journey" at the time. He had Herbie Herbert with him. Again, when completely removed from Journey (Schon, Cain and Herbert) he's done 2 records and they were both monumental flops (in the case of FTLOSM relatively speaking). The 2 aforementioned albums seemed to lack direction, exhibited poor writing skills and lacked melody. I agree, the sum of the trio was far better than the individual. You need chemistry...which is why most "supergroups" usually don't fly. If you put together (this is hypothetical...work with me) the world's greatest singer, bassist, guitarist, keys player and drummer, there is absolutely no guarantee it would be good. Chemistry is an intangible. It's not something you can "make." Which is why I have always argued that Ross Valory was meant to play bass for Journey. He's not going to win any bass solo competitions, but within the context of Journey he doesn't have to. He's the best bassist for Journey...period!

Sounds like you're making things up as you go along, SJ. Herbie is responsible for Street Talk's success. Without him, FTLOSM (and OTW) flopped because of poor lyrics and melody. Whaaat!?! SP needs Herbie to write the songs for him, too?

There is nothing wrong with SP's solo efforts .... nothing.

The hard core SP fans don't think there's anything wrong with his solo efforts, but I agree with Dan on that.

Neither Journey, nor SP have been nearly as successful without the other. It was a group of people that had just the right chemistry that made it work. Yeah, nobody sings like SP, that's a truth, but he wasn't nearly as good without that fantastic band behind him.

[annie89509]

The songs, music and memories are mostly BECAUSE of his voice. For YOUR argument to hold water, SJ, people would have to (a) have given a rat's ass about pre-Perry Journey, enough to make them be viable enough to keep a label on their own (b) have written most of the songs WITHOUT Perry's help (c) had a vocalist that was immediately recognized as "Journey" on the radio (d) had a frontman who was hell bent on getting them to the top of their game.
Journey had other singers before Perry, but they weren't as successful, talented, recognizable or driven. They might have been a "team", but he was clearly the captain.

Actually, the reason SJ's argument is valid is that A) Journey had already made a change at vocals but not given time to see how well it would work; and B) The band was already changing the way the wrote and constructed songs to appeal to a larger audience...also not given time to see how well it would work.

Fact is the band gained incredible success when it included Perry. But another fact is that the band was already making changes to help acheive success...a success we can only speculate on because it was never given time. Journey just as easily might have acheived similar successes with another singer.

I love how J28 always drums the same J beat about "Journey already made the change in vocal direction before Perry" and "with the band already committed to making this vocal change, they could have just easily had similar success with another singer (other than Perry)."

Come on, that other someone is Robert Fleishman. Please, no disrepect intended, but has anyone heard those early J songs that Robert sung: WITS, WOM, FTW/Anytime? I have, it's in an early 1977 concert boot (at Hawaii, I believe). What a world of difference between the 2 singers! SP smooth as silk, RF screams. But, according to the BTM show, the Journey guys wanted a screamer for a frontman. It was a smart Herbie, and the J-boys good fortune, that they got SP instead.

As for "Perry was going after commercial success with his solos and Neal wasn't" (another one of J28's pet lines) ..... What, Neal is only making records for the fun of it? All the MTV videos of Neal and JonHamner hamming it up promoting their songs (on their 2 albums) ... that's all for fun. Yeah, right ....

[Rip Rokken]

Very interesting and hope it goes well! This especially interests me because before our trip to Vegas in March, I'd floated the idea of a documentary on AP's Journey to a friend of mine who makes documentaries and works for the likes of HBO and the Sundance Channel -- a real pro. Got back in contact with him right after Dallas to push the idea, and he was very interested. I did soon after find that a documentary was apparently already in the works and so I let the idea go, and this must be that project. Really excited about it, and can't want to see it!

[Rip Rokken]

Hmm... for right now at least, that link seems to be down, but searching their site I found this:

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/diaspo ... ymans-Tale

Someone's probably already posted it, but great article! I'll check back for the other one later.

[etcetera]

Very interesting and hope it goes well! This especially interests me because before our trip to Vegas in March, I'd floated the idea of a documentary on AP's Journey to a friend of mine who makes documentaries and works for the likes of HBO and the Sundance Channel -- a real pro. Got back in contact with him right after Dallas to push the idea, and he was very interested. I did soon after find that a documentary was apparently already in the works and so I let the idea go, and this must be that project. Really excited about it, and can't want to see it!

OT: Cool, Rokken' durian! Smells like hell, tastes like heaven...ever tried some?

[Rip Rokken]

OT: Cool, Rokken' durian! Smells like hell, tastes like heaven...ever tried some?

I went on a quest for Durian today, and got some strange looks in the first 2 stores I asked for it in. Will try again tomorrow. I will be eating this sacred fruit soon...

[etcetera]

Hmm... for right now at least, that link seems to be down, but searching their site I found this:

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/diaspo ... ymans-Tale

Someone's probably already posted it, but great article! I'll check back for the other one later.

The write-up made it to the cover of the printed version of Sunday Inquirer Magazine, a weekly supplement of Phillipine Daily Inquirer...

[jrnyman28]

I love how J28 always drums the same J beat about "Journey already made the change in vocal direction before Perry" and "with the band already committed to making this vocal change, they could have just easily had similar success with another singer (other than Perry)."

Come on, that other someone is Robert Fleishman. Please, no disrepect intended, but has anyone heard those early J songs that Robert sung: WITS, WOM, FTW/Anytime? I have, it's in an early 1977 concert boot (at Hawaii, I believe). What a world of difference between the 2 singers! SP smooth as silk, RF screams. But, according to the BTM show, the Journey guys wanted a screamer for a frontman. It was a smart Herbie, and the J-boys good fortune, that they got SP instead.

Does not change the fact that Journey was already evolving and moving toward a more vocal/song approach. It is a fact that much of Infinity was written before Perry joined the band; song structures and melodies did not change a whole lot. It also doesn't change the fact that we will never know what kind of success may or may not have come from these evolutions.

Yes, HH was smart. Yes, Perry was a huge catalyst to further change. Yes, we know how successful Journey became while Perry fronted the band. But he was not and never will be the sole reason for that.

As for "Perry was going after commercial success with his solos and Neal wasn't" (another one of J28's pet lines) ..... What, Neal is only making records for the fun of it? All the MTV videos of Neal and JonHamner hamming it up promoting their songs (on their 2 albums) ... that's all for fun. Yeah, right ....

Fun and "commercial" are definitely two different things. Perry went for the "pop" route. Neal did not. Neal's work with Jan Hammer? He respected Jan's work with Mahvishnu Orchestra which was a very progressive band from the late 60's/early 70's. Neal's work with HSAS? Staright ahead rock captured live and raw. Neal's first solo CD "Late Nite", the closest to pop but still full of instrumentals and rock.

I appreciate you keeping track of "my" pet lines. Sorry to disappoint you that the happen to be factual. And nothing I posted was derogatory toward Perry yet you seemed to feel the need to belittle my post and Neal in an attempt to keep Perry on a pedastal....

[Deb]

Yes, HH was smart.

True! And knew a great voice when he heard one. He may come across as a cranky old fart now, but I'll never fault him for exposing me to two of my all-time favorite vocalists!

[Melissa]

OT: Cool, Rokken' durian! Smells like hell, tastes like heaven...ever tried some?

I went on a quest for Durian today, and got some strange looks in the first 2 stores I asked for it in. Will try again tomorrow. I will be eating this sacred fruit soon...

My friend said try an oriental store if you have them near you, esp. Vietnamese. She said there is a durian candy too, that's not as hard to eat (or smell actually, lol).

Is your av going potty?

[Deb]

OT: Cool, Rokken' durian! Smells like hell, tastes like heaven...ever tried some?

I went on a quest for Durian today, and got some strange looks in the first 2 stores I asked for it in. Will try again tomorrow. I will be eating this sacred fruit soon...

My friend said try an oriental store if you have them near you, esp. Vietnamese. She said there is a durian candy too, that's not as hard to eat (or smell actually, lol).

Is your av going potty?

Love your AV Melly!

[Melissa]

OT: Cool, Rokken' durian! Smells like hell, tastes like heaven...ever tried some?

I went on a quest for Durian today, and got some strange looks in the first 2 stores I asked for it in. Will try again tomorrow. I will be eating this sacred fruit soon...

My friend said try an oriental store if you have them near you, esp. Vietnamese. She said there is a durian candy too, that's not as hard to eat (or smell actually, lol).

Is your av going potty?

Love your AV Melly!

Yeah thanks DEB!

[Deb]

OT: Cool, Rokken' durian! Smells like hell, tastes like heaven...ever tried some?

I went on a quest for Durian today, and got some strange looks in the first 2 stores I asked for it in. Will try again tomorrow. I will be eating this sacred fruit soon...

My friend said try an oriental store if you have them near you, esp. Vietnamese. She said there is a durian candy too, that's not as hard to eat (or smell actually, lol).

Is your av going potty?

Love your AV Melly!

Yeah thanks DEB!

Any time darlin!