OT: Anyone Look At The Stock Market Today???

[fredinator]

Eeeek, maybe slucero is Glen Beck. Just kidding Dave. What is Glen Beck saying about our future?

[iceberg]

On another note, how is it that crude oil is down 40% and the prices at the pump have only gone down about 12%? Fucking gouging sucks!

I don't think they can drop the prices all at once until they recoup what they already have invested in the wells. But I'm certainly no expert.

it's confusing at first, but you buy on what it costs to replace. so. when oil goes up prices go up immediately because that's what it will cost to replace.

when it goes down, they still must sell the higher cost first. it's *not* a direct relationship but the IGS (instant gratification society) never seems to get that. just get angry. so i'd have to agree with you that while not really fun, makes perfect sense to me.

[DrFU]

Eeeek, maybe slucero is Glen Beck. Just kidding Dave. What is Glen Beck saying about our future?

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articl ... 198/16278/

[fredinator]

Hmmm, I got about 1/2 way through--very informative but when he started trashing Dems only I lost interest. Is he insinuating that a global war would help us in a depression? That last few paragraphs were harping on N Korea, Iran, Russia, etc. Is that what he is saying? He didn't say anything about McCain's proposal to buy up delinquent mortgages either. Anyway, thanks DFU; I did read it all the way through but would like to read both sides I think... I also wish he would say who he was talking to but I guess they told him it was off the record...

[DrFU]

Hmmm, I got about 1/2 way through--very informative but when he started trashing Dems only I lost interest. Is he insinuating that a global war would help us in a depression? That last few paragraphs were harping on N Korea, Iran, Russia, etc. Is that what he is saying? He didn't say anything about McCain's proposal to buy up delinquent mortgages either. Anyway, thanks DFU; I did read it all the way through but would like to read both sides I think... I also wish he would say who he was talking to but I guess they told him it was off the record...

Welcome; wasn't endorsing it, just putting it out there. Very far away from my own political perspective, but I can appreciate the quality of his argument.

[Voyager]

Does anyone really believe Glenn Beck? He screams typical redneck Joe sixpack to me. He's one drink away from a 3-day binge.

[fredinator]

I'm sorry; I guess that sounded that way, didn't it? I was just thinking out loud. Sad but true--he did seem to get a few things right. Heard just awhile ago that Bush is thinking of our government going into the banking business; not sure what is meant by that--probably another buyout. Can hardly believe all this stuff is happening...

[Don]

Hmmm, I got about 1/2 way through--very informative but when he started trashing Dems only I lost interest. Is he insinuating that a global war would help us in a depression? That last few paragraphs were harping on N Korea, Iran, Russia, etc. Is that what he is saying? He didn't say anything about McCain's proposal to buy up delinquent mortgages either. Anyway, thanks DFU; I did read it all the way through but would like to read both sides I think... I also wish he would say who he was talking to but I guess they told him it was off the record...

Welcome; wasn't endorsing it, just putting it out there. Very far away from my own political perspective, but I can appreciate the quality of his argument.

No, I think he was making the point that the 2nd world war caused us to create a lot of industry which helped to pull us out of the depression but that won't work in this day and age, we need a different type of catalyst to reignite Blue collar industry here in the States, we just don't know what that is yet or if it's even possible.

[fredinator]

T. Boone Pickens? (Just throwing that out there.)

[iceberg]

I'm sorry; I guess that sounded that way, didn't it? I was just thinking out loud. Sad but true--he did seem to get a few things right. Heard just awhile ago that Bush is thinking of our government going into the banking business; not sure what is meant by that--probably another buyout. Can hardly believe all this stuff is happening...

the world is changing. i've got a LOT in retirements and investments, but what can i do? sell and put it in a bank? oh yea, that's safe. insured by our gov, meaning i guess i'm self insured.

i've not wanted to sell in 5 years, i can wait it out. nothing else i can really do but jam and get through this the best way i know how.

musically and get that friggin screenplay written.

[Monker]

gas in Des Moines is 2.94 in some areas for cheap grade. Since I dont retire for 30 more years...
i wont look at my statement til next year.

Rick

Well, with all of the insurance and banking in this town, gas prices isn't something I worry much about anyways.

[slucero]

Wait till the Hedge Fund redemptions start to hit.... gonna be baaaad.....

Glen Beck has been listening to Ron Paul and Jim Rogers who've been SCREAMING about his for years... Beck is no economist, but Paul and Rogers are dead on.

The real problem here is this...

The US economy is no longer a "producer" economy... hasn't been for a long time... The recession in the 90's was real, and the Feds' engineered "soft landing" was done by lowering interest rates (which also accelerate inflation)... which created wealth but did NOTHING to create industry in the US... remember all those manufacturing jobs that got shipped overseas that Wall Street talking heads and CEO's said would be replaced with "information" jobs? NEVER HAPPENED. So all that wealth that was created was not supported by long term industrial growth, and to this day STILL hasn't materialized.

The Fed then CONTINUED this farce by playing with the Fed rate, much like a throttle on a BBQ.... continuing to prime the market with dollars, accelerating inflation.... while the Government encouraged US corporations to take their jobs overseas, and America's ability to sustain her economy with it. Manufacturing is the lifeblood of stable economies. We no longer have it.

In 1992 the Fed stopped using M3 as an indicator of inflation... (remember what I said above about inflation?) and also chose other indicators for unemployment instead choosing to use another methods. The sole purpose of this was to keep the public from becoming alarmed. M3 is still tracked. And its horrible. 18% inflation, 14.5% unemployment. Those are the real numbers...

Look at it this way... if unemployment is 5% that's 15 MILLION people unemployed.
The avg American family is 3 people.
Thats 45 Million people without income. No food. No rent. Nada.

NOW - assume that the M3 numbers are real.. hell just assume its 10%
The avg American family is 3 people.
Thats 90 Million people without income. No food. No rent. Nada.
1/3 of the US population.. destitute...

This massive infusion of money that the Fed and their world counterparts are infusing into the markets will do the following:

Rapidly dilute the value of all currencies.
Create uber-inflation.

We are going to have a recession... most likely it won't be called a "depression" until later...

I'm watching the European markets as I type this.

The fucking bottom is falling out of the markets there.

Here in the US the pre-market DOW is already down 300 points.

[fredinator]

Can't something be done? Or will these things happen in the first quarter of next year?

[Saint John]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

[conversationpc]

Does anyone really believe Glenn Beck? He screams typical redneck Joe sixpack to me. He's one drink away from a 3-day binge.

It doesn't matter whether you believe him or not. He's been nearly right on the money so far and has been warning of what's now happening for the last two years. I'm not saying he's right on everything but he has been right on this.

[Rick]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

[conversationpc]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The explanation is much deeper than that. As I said in another thread (or was it this one?), ALL Presidents and Congresses for the last 50+ years have contributed. The sub-prime loan crisis is something that began picking up steam in the Clinton administration, so this likely would've happened with or without a Bush presidency.

[slucero]

IMHO - the Fed h as made the problem worse... because all he bad debt still has to come off the balance sheets FIRST.

The only thing the Treasury/Fed should have done is to guarantee deposits. That would protect the consumer.

Let the banks/entities that deserve to fail - FAIL. The aftermath is the strong survive and the economy is better for it. What the fed and other global entities are doing now is akin to keeping a terminally ill patient (companies that should go bankrupt) alive, prolonging the inevitable. And the patients family (Joe American) is also suffering day after day....

[slucero]

We Are Facing an 'Inflation Holocaust': Jim Rogers
JIM ROGERS, INVESTMENT STRATEGY, ECONOMY, STOCK MARKETS, INFLATION, GOVERNMENTS, BANKS, FINANCIALS, CREDIT, BANKRUPTCY, CURRENCIES
CNBC.com
| 10 Oct 2008 | 07:26 AM ET

Markets do not trust the governments' plans to keep struggling banks alive and investors will only calm down when the companies with bad assets are allowed to go bankrupt, legendary investor Jim Rogers, CEO of Rogers Holdings, told CNBC on Friday.

"The way to solve this problem is to let people go bankrupt," Rogers said.

"Then you will hit bottom and then you start over. The people who are sound will take over the assets from the people who aren't sound and we will start over. This is the way the world has worked for a few thousand years."

The current rescue plans, which will force governments to issue more debt, print money and flood the markets with liquidity, will flare up inflation after the crisis is over and will create worse problems, Rogers warned.

"We're setting the stage for when we come out of this of a massive inflation holocaust," he said.

And the plans are unlikely to fend off a severe economic downturn, as the crisis starts affecting all walks of life.

"We had the worst excesses we had in credit markets in world history. We're going to have to take some pain," Rogers said.

"Many people bought 4-5 houses with no money down and no job… you think we'll just say well, that's too bad, we'll start over and nobody loses their job? Be realistic."

People should not look to the upcoming G7 meeting with the hope that the leaders of the strongest economies will find a solution.

"What they (G7 leaders) need to do is go down the bar and leave the rest of us alone," Rogers said.

Economies who did not take part in the subprime bonanza are likely to suffer along with Wall Street and the developed economies as the crisis unfolds, he warned.

"What about all the people in countries that minded their manners, saved their money, didn't get overextended and now all of a sudden they're being asked to bail out a bunch of guys on Wall Street who were incompetent at best and some of them crooks?"

"I thought it outrageous that anybody has to step in a bail out a bunch of 29 year olds driving Maseratis," he said.

There are not many safe havens in the volatile markets, he said.

"I have an enormous amount of cash and I've been using it to buy more Japanese yen, more Swiss Francs, more agricultural products… there's a liquidation phase going on, where everything is being liquidated. They're selling everything in sight."

"In a period like this the way you make money coming out of it is to own the things were the fundamentals have not been impaired," Rogers added.
© 2008 CNBC.com

[Saint John]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

[Tito]

Hmmm, I got about 1/2 way through--very informative but when he started trashing Dems only I lost interest. Is he insinuating that a global war would help us in a depression? That last few paragraphs were harping on N Korea, Iran, Russia, etc. Is that what he is saying? He didn't say anything about McCain's proposal to buy up delinquent mortgages either. Anyway, thanks DFU; I did read it all the way through but would like to read both sides I think... I also wish he would say who he was talking to but I guess they told him it was off the record...

I haven't read the article, however if he said a global war would help, he would be historically correct. WWII is what got us out of the depression. Not "the great" FDR.

[Tito]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

I would blame the government totally. Exhibit 1 - 11.3 trillion dollar national debt. Exhibit 2 - Liberal policies by the big government which gave us subprime lending and other social engineering.

[Saint John]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

I would blame the government totally. Exhibit 1 - 11.3 trillion dollar national debt. Exhibit 2 - Liberal policies by the big government which gave us subprime lending and other social engineering.

Yeah, you're right but that's still not an excuse to sit back, fold your arms, coolect a check and blame everything on the government. We have the right to bitch because we work and pay taxes. These welfare fucks shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[journeypower]

If I have some spare money now, I would buy, buy and buy. I know that this is a high stake risk and is more like a gamble. but as most of you already knew and some who have invested in stocks, nothing is a so-called safe bet. the idea here is proper timing and instinct of when to enter and when to get out. this sort of crash doesn't happen frequently and certainly some people are taking advantage of this and some are already at a disadvantage (those stocks which plummeted). I have a very strong feeling that there is a strong manipulation that has been going on to upset the market value and buy them at a real cheap price. more of a deliberate attempt on gaining some stocks cheaply, but shady so to speak. if it's there any guarantee to this, atleast it's not an Enron shady business.

[whirlwind]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

I would blame the government totally. Exhibit 1 - 11.3 trillion dollar national debt. Exhibit 2 - Liberal policies by the big government which gave us subprime lending and other social engineering.

Yeah, you're right but that's still not an excuse to sit back, fold your arms, coolect a check and blame everything on the government. We have the right to bitch because we work and pay taxes. These welfare fucks shouldn't be allowed to vote.

The same people that might get Obama elected and and for many it will be the first time they bothered to vote. Obama is promising them more of the same.

[iceberg]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

high 5.

[Rick]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

I would blame the government totally. Exhibit 1 - 11.3 trillion dollar national debt. Exhibit 2 - Liberal policies by the big government which gave us subprime lending and other social engineering.

Yeah, you're right but that's still not an excuse to sit back, fold your arms, coolect a check and blame everything on the government. We have the right to bitch because we work and pay taxes. These welfare fucks shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Now this I agree with. There are people on Welfare that are legitimate, however. Those that are on it for a free ride though, I totally agree.

[slucero]

People are pulling their money out of the market in anticipation of a socialist Obama presidency.

Obama could only signify hope after the last 8 years. Bush has rode this country, it's economy and reputation into the ground.

The country is fine. The people have let the country down. Too many people would rather blame the government for everything and sit back and feel sorry for themselves rather than rolling up their sleeves. And who gives a fuck what France thinks.

I would blame the government totally. Exhibit 1 - 11.3 trillion dollar national debt. Exhibit 2 - Liberal policies by the big government which gave us subprime lending and other social engineering.

Yeah, you're right but that's still not an excuse to sit back, fold your arms, coolect a check and blame everything on the government. We have the right to bitch because we work and pay taxes. These welfare fucks shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Soory SJ.. but that answer holds little water...

According to The Budget for Fiscal Year 2008, Historical Tables, total outlays for Means Tested Entitlements in 2006 were $354.3 billion. Includes Medicaid, food stamps, family support assistance (AFDC), supplemental security income (SSI), child nutrition programs, refundable portions of earned income tax credits (EITC and HITC) and child tax credit, welfare contingency fund, child care entitlement to States, temporary assistance to needy families, foster care and adoption assistance, State children’s health insurance and veterans pensions.

That's a "gnats fart in the wind" compared to the rampant spending that's gone on in the last 8 years.... 354Billion vs. 5 Trillion??

[Arkansas]

Does anyone really believe Glenn Beck? He screams typical redneck Joe sixpack to me. He's one drink away from a 3-day binge.

Remember, he's an entertainer! It's mostly part truth, mostly truth as he wants to portray it.
It's all about ratings. It's TV, damnit.


later~

[Arkansas]

Btw, it's a buyers market.
Do it. Buy, buy, buy!

It might take several yrs to get out of this apparent tailspin. But when we do recover, today's buyers will be setting quite pretty.


later~