Did Journey start a trend for bands to replace their singer?

[Michigan Girl]

Stupid comparison. The Stones have done it for over 40 years. The aforementioned acts did it for a few...if that.

I don't care if they do it for 40 more years. Jagger still sucks!


John from Boston

No argument here. Great little frontman, but vocally does nothing for me.

If he took one picture with you you'd be on here gyrating as you typed about how much "soul" he has and how he "emotes."

Not true at all. Have a picture with Kip Winger and as much as I like Winger's music and he's a sweetheart of a guy...... he's got a good voice but I wouldn't put him up there with my top 3 soul emoters.

lol,
Deb1, the emoter promoter!!!

[brywool]

did you guys watch the new stones film, shine a light? Dang, Jagger doing the stuff he does at his (any) age looks pretty silly. Saw it on IMAX. Scared the crap outta me.

[brywool]

with my top 3 soul emoters.

Speaking of which...that fucking coke head that just cashed in from The Four Topps had more soul and emotion than anyone I've ever heard...with the exception of Steve Perry.

I like my soulful vocals to have a little husk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpZ9fWvTR80

Think that's why I liked Perry's later vocal tone more. IMO it portrays more emotion than the crystal clear high vocals.

Four Tops guy died from COKE????
I didn't hear that. A HOLE A HOLE A HOLE.

[bluejeangirl76]

Then explain Revelation disc 2.

Journey remaking Journey songs? Yeah, that's ridiculous.

That makes it MORE ridiculous. One band covering another is one thing... the same band doing it is just stupid.

I don't care what the Walmart deal was... "no" is an answer too.
Its all about the cashola and the fact that they would step all over 10 years of music people loved proves it.

And why didn't they say no? Because it was a lucritive deal?
Ok sure, I agree with you... so they said yes because they couldn't turn down a deal that was gonna pay a lot - fair enough... but that's because they knew that no one else was gonna pay them that much money for just Revelation by itself... why? Because they're moneymaker is home counting his dubloons and not answering his phone.

Get your head out of your ass, throw away your Loon card and join the thinking world.

It has nothing to do with "loonacy". Staying true to the sound is one thing. Actually redoing those same songs is another.

We're never gonna agree on this man. But that's ok. You're fun to drink with anyway.

[annpea]

If anybody did, it was Styx. Thank God they did. Nothing against DeYoung (who I like a lot) , but Styx just wasn't a rock band anymore with him at the helm AND Gowan's such a better keyboard player.

You're right - I forgot about them. They were the first to surgically remove the LSD (lead singer disease) out of the band. Without the enormous ego that made the band top-heavy, they were able to continue touring and recording without all that conflict. The same thing has happened for Journey. Good for them. Who needs all the drama? Just make the fucking music and tour!

Wasn't the drama and over the top arrogrance of the lead singers part of the attraction in the first place? In the past as well as today the bad boy image was and still is a strong selling point.I think also it's more than just a vocal aspect; image also plays a big part too. A younger lead singer can add a fresh youthful look to an aging band.

[Saint John]

I don't care what the Walmart deal was... "no" is an answer too.

Not in this instance. This Wal Mart deal was part of an intertwined deal with Music Today, Live Nation and Wal Mart. They needed the Wal Mart deal if they wanted to tour behind an album with some promotion. Their hands were literally tied. Plus they needed to remove the horrid memories of Augeri warbling the last few shows after the tapes were exposed and Soto singing in monotone rather than tenor. The 3 disc package (2 CDs and the DVD) made all the sesne in the world. The remakes were important in that they demonstrated that Journey once again had someone that could sing the songs well for the first time since Augeri's first 2 or 3 years at the helm.

But that's ok. You're fun to drink with anyway.

Agreed. Let's do that sometime soon.

[Rick]

If anybody did, it was Styx. Thank God they did. Nothing against DeYoung (who I like a lot) , but Styx just wasn't a rock band anymore with him at the helm AND Gowan's such a better keyboard player.

You're right - I forgot about them. They were the first to surgically remove the LSD (lead singer disease) out of the band. Without the enormous ego that made the band top-heavy, they were able to continue touring and recording without all that conflict. The same thing has happened for Journey. Good for them. Who needs all the drama? Just make the fucking music and tour!

David Lee Roth was booted WAY before Dennis was.

Yeah, but the big difference with that was Van Hagar never rode on DLR's shirt tails... they made all new music. Styx and Journey still sell concert tickets due to the music that was made with their former singers.

Van Halen did it with the right guy at the right time. If they did that today, they would be opening for Styx.

[Dano]

If anybody did, it was Styx. Thank God they did. Nothing against DeYoung (who I like a lot) , but Styx just wasn't a rock band anymore with him at the helm AND Gowan's such a better keyboard player.

You're right - I forgot about them. They were the first to surgically remove the LSD (lead singer disease) out of the band. Without the enormous ego that made the band top-heavy, they were able to continue touring and recording without all that conflict. The same thing has happened for Journey. Good for them. Who needs all the drama? Just make the fucking music and tour!

David Lee Roth was booted WAY before Dennis was.

Yeah, but the big difference with that was Van Hagar never rode on DLR's shirt tails... they made all new music. Styx and Journey still sell concert tickets due to the music that was made with their former singers.

Van Halen did it with the right guy at the right time. If they did that today, they would be opening for Styx.

Absolutely! They were still at the top of their game in popularity as a "current" act at that point. Much harder to make that change when you are a legacy act. And I agree with Saint John (although I got crucified for saying the same in my concert review a couple months back): Perry is not that missed. I mean, as a member of the band. Not that his vocals or songwriting weren't crucial aspects to the band's success, but I agree, the fact that they were one of the top tours of the summer meant that people wanted to hear the music and were finally willing to accept a new lead singer. Augeri was accepted as well, but he had the harder job of having to fill impossibly large shoes. It's been a decade now since Perry was out, so more people are willing to move on with the band.

I think also that the planets pretty much aligned perfectly for all the band's renewed success: They found an imminently talented and likeable frontman from a far-away land with a very touching human interest story as his background, who brought with him many fans from overseas. They inked a terrific deal with the world's biggest retailer and put out an insanely low-priced product packed with value. They packaged a tour together with one of the 70's other most-beloved acts in Heart with Cheap Trick along for the ride to boot. And they got tons of coverage this time out. I mean, when was the last time you saw a member of Journey on the cover of Guitar Player or Modern Drummer?

The naysayers can whine all they want about the re-records or the fact that there were three bands on the tour. The bottom line is the band had their most successful year since their heyday. Nobody--not Styx, REO, Boston (much as I love them all) or any of their AOR contemporaries have managed this kind of a comeback. It was truly Journey's year.

[StoneCold]

Agreed. Too bad REO couldn't pull off half as good an album as REVS. They need to bring more hooks into their tunes.

Some of their heartland folksy stuff is ok but it starts to run together after a while.

[annie89509]

with my top 3 soul emoters.

Speaking of which...that fucking coke head that just cashed in from The Four Topps had more soul and emotion than anyone I've ever heard...with the exception of Steve Perry.

I like my soulful vocals to have a little husk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpZ9fWvTR80

Think that's why I liked Perry's later vocal tone more. IMO it portrays more emotion than the crystal clear high vocals.

Four Tops guy died from COKE????
I didn't hear that. A HOLE A HOLE A HOLE.

God, no. The guy was like in his 80's, most definitely died of old age. SJ's only throwing in colorful little digs, as he's known to do.

[annie89509]

I think Dano pretty much summed it all up in his post. Journey finally accomplished what they wanted this year what they couldn't back in 2001.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not in this instance. This Wal Mart deal was part of an intertwined deal with Music Today, Live Nation and Wal Mart. They needed the Wal Mart deal if they wanted to tour behind an album with some promotion. Their hands were literally tied. Plus they needed to remove the horrid memories of Augeri warbling the last few shows after the tapes were exposed and Soto singing in monotone rather than tenor. The 3 disc package (2 CDs and the DVD) made all the sesne in the world. The remakes were important in that they demonstrated that Journey once again had someone that could sing the songs well for the first time since Augeri's first 2 or 3 years at the helm.

Wouldn't the concert DVD have accomplished that same objective?
I recognize Journey desperately needed a a hit.
I understand it.
But that doesn't make it any less soul-compromising.
What happened to the Neal Schon who vowed never to let Journey became a nostalgia act?
Also, considering there was no discernible drop-off in ticket sales under Augeri or Soto, I find the idea that the band needed to fumigate the stink of their departure highly doubtful.
As you know, the Walmart deal was in the cards prior to Soto even getting fired.

[bluejeangirl76]

Wouldn't the concert DVD have accomplished that same objective?

Thank you.

[Rick]

Not in this instance. This Wal Mart deal was part of an intertwined deal with Music Today, Live Nation and Wal Mart. They needed the Wal Mart deal if they wanted to tour behind an album with some promotion. Their hands were literally tied. Plus they needed to remove the horrid memories of Augeri warbling the last few shows after the tapes were exposed and Soto singing in monotone rather than tenor. The 3 disc package (2 CDs and the DVD) made all the sesne in the world. The remakes were important in that they demonstrated that Journey once again had someone that could sing the songs well for the first time since Augeri's first 2 or 3 years at the helm.

Wouldn't the concert DVD have accomplished that same objective?
I recognize Journey desperately needed a a hit.
I understand it.
But that doesn't make it any less soul-compromising.
What happened to the Neal Schon who vowed never to let Journey became a nostalgia act?
Also, considering there was no discernible drop-off in ticket sales under Augeri or Soto, I find the idea that the band needed to fumigate the stink of their departure highly doubtful.
As you know, the Walmart deal was in the cards prior to Soto even getting fired.

Walmart pushed the rerecords, not Journey. Walmart wanted only the rerecords and 4 new songs at the most. The rest that was included was all Journey's doing. You'll notice a huge difference in the production of the two records. Journey wanted the new stuff and wasn't interested in spending time or money redoing the classic songs.

[Deb]

Not in this instance. This Wal Mart deal was part of an intertwined deal with Music Today, Live Nation and Wal Mart. They needed the Wal Mart deal if they wanted to tour behind an album with some promotion. Their hands were literally tied. Plus they needed to remove the horrid memories of Augeri warbling the last few shows after the tapes were exposed and Soto singing in monotone rather than tenor. The 3 disc package (2 CDs and the DVD) made all the sesne in the world. The remakes were important in that they demonstrated that Journey once again had someone that could sing the songs well for the first time since Augeri's first 2 or 3 years at the helm.

Wouldn't the concert DVD have accomplished that same objective?
I recognize Journey desperately needed a a hit.
I understand it.
But that doesn't make it any less soul-compromising.
What happened to the Neal Schon who vowed never to let Journey became a nostalgia act?
Also, considering there was no discernible drop-off in ticket sales under Augeri or Soto, I find the idea that the band needed to fumigate the stink of their departure highly doubtful.
As you know, the Walmart deal was in the cards prior to Soto even getting fired.

Interesting................so Walmart wanted it when Soto was in too?

[Saint John]

Wouldn't the concert DVD have accomplished that same objective?

No. It lacks the benefit of a studio. Gotta have a level playing field if you want to demonstrate to fans that the band is in good hands. The DVD was much too soon to be the sole evidence. He had what...a handful of shows under his belt? If he tanked that show the DVD may have been scrapped.

What happened to the Neal Schon who vowed never to let Journey became a nostalgia act?

He's alive and well. They made a new album last year and will be working on another one shortly.

Also, considering there was no discernible drop-off in ticket sales under Augeri or Soto, I find the idea that the band needed to fumigate the stink of their departure highly doubtful.

Augeri was good for a lot of years on merit and then on Memorex, but the last impression of him was one of utter disgrace. And Soto was to Journey what Sammy Hagar would have been to The Beatles.

As you know, the Walmart deal was in the cards prior to Soto even getting fired.

Didn't know that. Who said that?

[Deb]

As you know, the Walmart deal was in the cards prior to Soto even getting fired.

Didn't know that. Who said that?

Now that just throws a fly in your ointment, doesn't it?!

[Saint John]

Now that just throws a fly in your ointment, does it?!

Not at all. It actually solidifies my belief that Neal and Jon love Journey and would never record a new album with a dude that would have been a terrible fit. The fact that they may have thrown caution to the wind and took one of the biggest risks in rock history is potentially a testament to them as artists.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It lacks the benefit of a studio. Gotta have a level playing field if you want to demonstrate to fans that the band is in good hands.

But as others have noted, the re-records pale in comparison to the originals.
Complaints have ranged from hearing a click track to Arnel's overbearing accent.

They made a new album last year and will be working on another one shortly.

Remaking the hits stands in stark contrast to Neal's interviews over the years.
Thankfully Neal fought to release a record of new tunes in addition to Disc 2, but to pretend this isn't the ultimate act of last gasp commercial capitulation is to deny reality.

Augeri was good for a lot of years on merit and then on Memorex, but the last impression of him was one of utter disgrace.

Yes, but as you and others have noted, the Tapegate scandal hardly spread outside of the net. Same thing with JSS's departure.
The idea that the re-records were produced not by choice, but by necessity to erase that particular ink splot from their legacy is bullshit.
You know very well the band was capitalizing on DSB mania ushered in by The Sopranos and The Hills.

As you know, the Walmart deal was in the cards prior to Soto even getting fired.

Didn't know that. Who said that?

Both Soto and Jeremey mentioned talking about doing the re-records with the band.
Remember all the negative feedback JSS got about it on this very forum?

[Saint John]

Both Soto and Jeremey mentioned talking about doing the re-records with the band.
Remember all the negative feedback JSS got about it on this very forum?

Yes, but I never remember Walmart being mentioned.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yes, but I never remember Walmart being mentioned.

The idea would never have originated within the band itself.
It had to be foisted on them.

[Saint John]

Yes, but I never remember Walmart being mentioned.

The idea would never have originated within the band itself.
It had to be foisted on them.

Why not...they did it with Augeri.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Why not...they did it with Augeri.

They may have recorded the catalog with him, but they never released an album of it, or even publicized that they existed.
These new re-records were done strictly FOR the Azoff deal.

[Enigma869]

Perry is not that missed. I mean, as a member of the band. Not that his vocals or songwriting weren't crucial aspects to the band's success, but I agree, the fact that they were one of the top tours of the summer meant that people wanted to hear the music and were finally willing to accept a new lead singer. Augeri was accepted as well, but he had the harder job of having to fill impossibly large shoes. It's been a decade now since Perry was out, so more people are willing to move on with the band.

A couple of points here. First and foremost, Journey has ALWAYS been a monster touring band. That hasn't changed because of Arnel Pineda. The reality is that Journey's back catalog is SUPERB, so the music stands on its own. They could roll out Cain on lead vocals, and they would still sell tickets (even though nobody would ever come back). Hell, they were selling out venues while Augeri was up there lip syncing. That should prove that it's the brand identity that is selling tickets and moving this train...not some replacement singer. It is the name "Journey" that is selling tickets. This argument that "Perry isn't missed because Journey is selling out shows" is simply ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that more than 75% of people who attend a Journey concert have ZERO idea that Perry isn't still in the band or that the guy up there singing is a "new guy", or that there have been 17 lead singers, since Perry's departure. Jeff said on this very board, shortly after being named the lead singer of Journey, that he was simply stunned that almost everyone he came across at a show had no idea Perry had left Journey (and yes, it had still been more than 10 years since Perry recorded with Journey)!

The final point I'll make is that most people attending a Journey concert (or any other 80's band) aren't there to be "moving on". It's all about living in the past, and re-creating what once was! If they truly wanted to "move on", they wouldn't be at a Journey concert! While the Pineda supporters (and the Augeri and Soto supporters, before him) like you to believe that it's all about the new guy, and that the new guy has allowed Journey to "move on", they are delusional. It's never been about moving on, and never will be. There is a reason that 99% of their entire setlist involves music that another man made famous!


John from Boston

[madsplash]

Perry is not that missed. I mean, as a member of the band. Not that his vocals or songwriting weren't crucial aspects to the band's success, but I agree, the fact that they were one of the top tours of the summer meant that people wanted to hear the music and were finally willing to accept a new lead singer. Augeri was accepted as well, but he had the harder job of having to fill impossibly large shoes. It's been a decade now since Perry was out, so more people are willing to move on with the band.

A couple of points here. First and foremost, Journey has ALWAYS been a monster touring band. That hasn't changed because of Arnel Pineda. The reality is that Journey's back catalog is SUPERB, so the music stands on its own. They could roll out Cain on lead vocals, and they would still sell tickets (even though nobody would ever come back). Hell, they were selling out venues while Augeri was up there lip syncing. That should prove that it's the brand identity that is selling tickets and moving this train...not some replacement singer. It is the name "Journey" that is selling tickets. This argument that "Perry isn't missed because Journey is selling out shows" is simply ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that more than 75% of people who attend a Journey concert have ZERO idea that Perry isn't still in the band or that the guy up there singing is a "new guy", or that there have been 17 lead singers, since Perry's departure. Jeff said on this very board, shortly after being named the lead singer of Journey, that he was simply stunned that almost everyone he came across at a show had no idea Perry had left Journey (and yes, it had still been more than 10 years since Perry recorded with Journey)!

The final point I'll make is that most people attending a Journey concert (or any other 80's band) aren't there to be "moving on". It's all about living in the past, and re-creating what once was! If they truly wanted to "move on", they wouldn't be at a Journey concert! While the Pineda supporters (and the Augeri and Soto supporters, before him) like you to believe that it's all about the new guy, and that the new guy has allowed Journey to "move on", they are delusional. It's never been about moving on, and never will be. There is a reason that 99% of their entire setlist involves music that another man made famous!


John from Boston

Great post, John. 100% agreed.

[annpea]

Perry is not that missed. I mean, as a member of the band. Not that his vocals or songwriting weren't crucial aspects to the band's success, but I agree, the fact that they were one of the top tours of the summer meant that people wanted to hear the music and were finally willing to accept a new lead singer. Augeri was accepted as well, but he had the harder job of having to fill impossibly large shoes. It's been a decade now since Perry was out, so more people are willing to move on with the band.

A couple of points here. First and foremost, Journey has ALWAYS been a monster touring band. That hasn't changed because of Arnel Pineda. The reality is that Journey's back catalog is SUPERB, so the music stands on its own. They could roll out Cain on lead vocals, and they would still sell tickets (even though nobody would ever come back). Hell, they were selling out venues while Augeri was up there lip syncing. That should prove that it's the brand identity that is selling tickets and moving this train...not some replacement singer. It is the name "Journey" that is selling tickets. This argument that "Perry isn't missed because Journey is selling out shows" is simply ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that more than 75% of people who attend a Journey concert have ZERO idea that Perry isn't still in the band or that the guy up there singing is a "new guy", or that there have been 17 lead singers, since Perry's departure. Jeff said on this very board, shortly after being named the lead singer of Journey, that he was simply stunned that almost everyone he came across at a show had no idea Perry had left Journey (and yes, it had still been more than 10 years since Perry recorded with Journey)!

The final point I'll make is that most people attending a Journey concert (or any other 80's band) aren't there to be "moving on". It's all about living in the past, and re-creating what once was! If they truly wanted to "move on", they wouldn't be at a Journey concert! While the Pineda supporters (and the Augeri and Soto supporters, before him) like you to believe that it's all about the new guy, and that the new guy has allowed Journey to "move on", they are delusional. It's never been about moving on, and never will be. There is a reason that 99% of their entire setlist involves music that another man made famous!


John from Boston

You, make good points. I will proudly admit that past does indeed come into play for me. Hearing those wonderful songs tend to take me back to a time when I didn't hurt when I rolled out of the bed when I could see my life as forever; there was no clock ticking in my mind I was free and young could dance all night. So yes I'm not ashamed to admit that it's the Journey past that keeps me holding on to the Journey present.

[bluejeangirl76]

I'm willing to bet that more than 75% of people who attend a Journey concert have ZERO idea that Perry isn't still in the band or that the guy up there singing is a "new guy", or that there have been 17 lead singers, since Perry's departure. Jeff said on this very board, shortly after being named the lead singer of Journey, that he was simply stunned that almost everyone he came across at a show had no idea Perry had left Journey (and yes, it had still been more than 10 years since Perry recorded with Journey)!

That is completely true. I have more than my fair share of Journey conversations with random people because of my license plate - people will just start talking Journey with me... or they ask me what the plate means and I tell them, THEN we talk Journey...LOL! Point being, I've held a lot of Q&As about what Journey and Perry are doing and the ONE question that's a constant is "Is Steve Perry still with Journey?" I am NOT making that up. The next question is always "Well what's he doing then?"

Outside the die hard fan world, its the Journey name and Greatest Hits that sell the tickets, not whichever singer is behind the mic that week. But if an announcement came tomorrow that Perry was back in the band, it would be the opposite. The news of his return would be the seller, and the other 75% would go, "Shit I never knew he was gone, but cool, I'll be there!"

[Saint John]

I'm willing to bet that more than 75% of people who attend a Journey concert have ZERO idea that Perry isn't still in the band

I've been to 30+ shows between Augeri, Soto and Pineda and this is simply not true. I'd say that 1 out of every 4 people thinks Perry is still in the band.

There is a reason that 99% of their entire setlist involves music that another man made famous!

5 men made that music famous, not one. Just as Perry had people mimic the other members' "instruments" on his For The Love Of Strange Selfishness tour, Journey has someone mimic Perry's. The difference is that they have always said he's welcome to come back at a moment's notice, but he wouldn't even let Jon Cain into the building for one of his shows. Real classy guy.

[bluejeangirl76]

5 men made that music famous, not one.

If you want to credit everyone, then 7 men made the music famous.

Show your work an remember to carry the 2 when you're solving that one.

[annpea]

I'm willing to bet that more than 75% of people who attend a Journey concert have ZERO idea that Perry isn't still in the band

I've been to 30+ shows between Augeri, Soto and Pineda and this is simply not true. I'd say that 1 out of every 4 people thinks Perry is still in the band.

There is a reason that 99% of their entire setlist involves music that another man made famous!

5 men made that music famous, not one.

Just as Perry had people mimic the other members' "instruments" on his For The Love Of Strange Selfishness tour, Journey has someone mimic Perry's.

The difference is that they have always said he's welcome to come back at a moment's notice, but he wouldn't even let Jon Cain into the building for one of his shows. Real classy guy.