OT: Just Another Reason Children and Guns Don't Mix!

[Skylorde]

I'm not too keen on gun control but catastrophes like this really make me second guess my own opinions on the topic. You just can't legislate stupidity out of people.

[Don]

I hope he's better with knives!

Great line He works at an ER somewhere in CT. The sad thing is that I saw this moron on the local news, and he was fairly nonchalant about the loss of his son. He basically said "Accidents happen". I really found it appalling. As the dad of a little boy, I could NEVER be remotely composed enough to talk to the media about my son who was just killed, because of my gross negligence! People like this shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, as it pollutes the gene pool!


John from Boston

The sad thing is the father is going to get paid out on this under accidental death. I don't think the claimed is going to be easy to deny because of the instructor being there.

[Enigma869]

The sad thing is the father is going to get paid out on this under accidental death. I don't think the claimed is going to be easy to deny because of the instructor being there.

Well, one positive development of this awful story is that the Massachusetts legislature is now going to draft a bill to outlaw children under a certain age (the age hasn't been determined yet) having any access to firearms, even with parental consent. This story clearly illustrates that parental consent isn't enough to keep an innocent little boy alive! Hopefully, this moronic father will suffer, emotionally (because he clearly won't be prosecuted) for having been the proximate cause of his son's death! Nobody will ever convince me that there is ANY reason in the world for a child of ANY age to have access to a firearm!


John from Boston

[MrsPerry]

Amazing to me that ANY parent thinks it's a good idea for an 8 year old child to be handling an UZI. You would think that his dad, of all people (who is an ER Doctor) would have enough sense not to sanction such a foolish and irresponsible activity!

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO92824/


John from Boston

I have been handling and firing firearms since I was aged 6. While a tragedy, it could have happened to anyone. An Uzi doesn't have that much recoil because of how it is designed.

I was also taught to use firearms from a young age, and my Dad had the same rule he had with guns that he had with sail-boats - somethings you can't do yet, not because I don't think you are responsible enough, or skilled enough, but you just aren't damn big enough yet. Don't have the body mass to safely balance the catamaran when the wind picks up, then you aren't sailing without me on the ride-line. Don't have the upper body strength to hold the rifle steady for five minutes? Then you can't load it, let alone fire it unless I'm holding it too. I was 7 when Dad started teaching me to handle a rifle but it wasn't until I was twelve before I had enough body mass to convince him I could handle the recoil and let me shoot without him physically helping me. And that included shooting from the ground.

No WAY would I let a teenager, let alone a child, pick up an Uzi, not without some concrete evidence they knew a hell of a lot more than the basics of firearms handling. If the law requires a qualified instructor to be monitoring the kid, what the hell was the kid's Dad doing helping him? Shouldn't have happened - and I personally really don't like the idea of trying out firearms being sold as a fun family day out. Fucking HUGE responsibility, with enormous repercussions if it goes wrong, not something to put on par with rollercoaster rides and fairy floss.

very very well said. i totally agree.

Dad and the instructor really are to blame here.

[Tito]

The sad thing is the father is going to get paid out on this under accidental death. I don't think the claimed is going to be easy to deny because of the instructor being there.

Well, one positive development of this awful story is that the Massachusetts legislature is now going to draft a bill to outlaw children under a certain age (the age hasn't been determined yet) having any access to firearms, even with parental consent. This story clearly illustrates that parental consent isn't enough to keep an innocent little boy alive! Hopefully, this moronic father will suffer, emotionally (because he clearly won't be prosecuted) for having been the proximate cause of his son's death! Nobody will ever convince me that there is ANY reason in the world for a child of ANY age to have access to a firearm!


John from Boston

Bad law.

[bluejeangirl76]

Nobody will ever convince me that there is ANY reason in the world for a child of ANY age to have access to a firearm!

Agreed.

[Arianddu]

The sad thing is the father is going to get paid out on this under accidental death. I don't think the claimed is going to be easy to deny because of the instructor being there.

Well, one positive development of this awful story is that the Massachusetts legislature is now going to draft a bill to outlaw children under a certain age (the age hasn't been determined yet) having any access to firearms, even with parental consent. This story clearly illustrates that parental consent isn't enough to keep an innocent little boy alive! Hopefully, this moronic father will suffer, emotionally (because he clearly won't be prosecuted) for having been the proximate cause of his son's death! Nobody will ever convince me that there is ANY reason in the world for a child of ANY age to have access to a firearm!


John from Boston

Bad law.

Why?

[Enigma869]

Why?

Because he's a complete JACKASS! Frito apparently thinks it's not a bad idea to allow an 8 year old little boy to blow his head off, with parental supervision! You really know all you need to know about anyone who even attempts to justify something like this happening!


John from Boston

[Tito]

Why?

Because he's a complete JACKASS! Frito apparently thinks it's not a bad idea to allow an 8 year old little boy to blow his head off, with parental supervision! You really know all you need to know about anyone who even attempts to justify something like this happening!


John from Boston

I will support the law if they also make swimming pools illegal for 8 years old too.

[bluejeangirl76]

Why?

Because he's a complete JACKASS! Frito apparently thinks it's not a bad idea to allow an 8 year old little boy to blow his head off, with parental supervision! You really know all you need to know about anyone who even attempts to justify something like this happening!


John from Boston

I will support the law if they also make swimming pools illegal for 8 years old too.

Wow. This is gonna be a fun day. Hang on, let me grab a snack first.

[Arianddu]

Why?

Because he's a complete JACKASS! Frito apparently thinks it's not a bad idea to allow an 8 year old little boy to blow his head off, with parental supervision! You really know all you need to know about anyone who even attempts to justify something like this happening!


John from Boston

I will support the law if they also make swimming pools illegal for 8 years old too.

John - politely - please butt out; I really am interested to know Tito's reasoning. Why do you think this is a bad law?

Saying making swiming pools illegal for 8 years olds is disengenous - I could respond 'do you support allowing 8 years old to drive?'
I really would like to know - what is your reasoning behind thinking this will be a bad law?

[Enigma869]

John - politely - please butt out;

Politely...fuck off! It's my thread, and if I want to respond to this moron, I will do so!

I really am interested to know Tito's reasoning. Why do you think this is a bad law?

His reasoning is that he's a gun fanatic and thinks toddlers have a "right to bear arms". Let's hope that Frito-Lay NEVER reproduces, because his children may not be safe! He also believes that just as many children drown in swimming pools as are killed by firearms, which couldn't be more false! Also, I've never once heard of an 8 year old drowning in a pool, while supervised by his parents! Most of the tragic drowning stories you hear about involve a child's (usually FAR younger than caretaker losing track of where the child is, and the child accidentally falling into the pool. Sorry, pools and guns aren't the same, regardless of what this genius suggests!

For the record, I've always had an inground pool and have a child. The doors to the pool area are NEVER EVER EVER unlocked if myself or my wife are not with our son. We also have an alarm in the pool itself. While I have never been opposed to citizens owning firearms, I also think they have an obligation to be responsible with them, and not put them in the hands of little boys and girls! Just like an adult's pool area should always be secure (and many states have laws mandating that pools have fences and locks), so should an adult's firearm collection!


John from Boston

[Arianddu]

John - politely - please butt out;

Politely...fuck off! It's my thread, and if I want to respond to this moron, I will do so!

But you're responding to me, not Tito...

I really am interested to know Tito's reasoning. Why do you think this is a bad law?

His reasoning is that he's a gun fanatic and thinks toddlers have a "right to bear arms". Let's hope that Frito-Lay NEVER reproduces, because his children may not be safe! He also believes that just as many children drown in swimming pools as are killed by firearms, which couldn't be more false! Also, I've never once heard of an 8 year old drowning in a pool, while supervised by his parents! Most of the tragic drowning stories you hear about involve a child's (usually FAR younger than 8 ) caretaker losing track of where the child is, and the child accidentally falling into the pool. Sorry, pools and guns aren't the same, regardless of what this genius suggests!

For the record, I've always had an inground pool and have a child. The doors to the pool area are NEVER EVER EVER unlocked if myself or my wife are not with our son. We also have an alarm in the pool itself. While I have never been opposed to citizens owning firearms, I also think they have an obligation to be responsible with them, and not put them in the hands of little boys and girls! Just like an adult's pool area should always be secure (and many states have laws mandating that pools have fences and locks), so should an adult's firearms collection!


John from Boston

I totally agree with you on all points, and despite having been taught to handle firearms from childhood, I personally don't agree with my Dad's reasoning, and wouldn't do it with my own kids. But I'm still interested to know Tito's reasoning behind thinking it's a bad law. If it's simply 'my right' - then yeah, he's an unreasoning dick. But I'd like to know if there is any other reason he has, and I'd prefer my request to stay polite. 'Kay?

[bluejeangirl76]

Just like an adult's pool area should always be secure (and many states have laws mandating that pools have fences and locks), so should an adult's firearms collection!

Pools should absolutely be secure and SUPERVISED every second while small children are around, but comparing pools and swimming to guns is just insane. Swimming is an essential skill that children should have for their own protection. If a child falls into a pool or off a boat (even while under supervision), swimming will save them. Children do not need to be playing around with guns, and don't anyone dare post that a gun will save them... maybe later in life, if their home is invaded and (as ADULTS) they're learned proper use of one, but no 8 year old has any business touching any gun.

[Tito]

His reasoning is that he's a gun fanatic and thinks toddlers have a "right to bear arms". Let's hope that Frito-Lay NEVER reproduces, because his children may not be safe! He also believes that just as many children drown in swimming pools as are killed by firearms, which couldn't be more false! Also, I've never once heard of an 8 year old drowning in a pool, while supervised by his parents! Most of the tragic drowning stories you hear about involve a child's (usually FAR younger than caretaker losing track of where the child is, and the child accidentally falling into the pool. Sorry, pools and guns aren't the same, regardless of what this genius suggests!

For the record, I've always had an inground pool and have a child. The doors to the pool area are NEVER EVER EVER unlocked if myself or my wife are not with our son. We also have an alarm in the pool itself. While I have never been opposed to citizens owning firearms, I also think they have an obligation to be responsible with them, and not put them in the hands of little boys and girls! Just like an adult's pool area should always be secure (and many states have laws mandating that pools have fences and locks), so should an adult's firearms collection!


John from Boston

Really?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421386/posts

Which of these is a greater danger? (GUNS vs. Pools)
Arizona Daily Star ^ | June 12, 2005 | Eric Swedlund

Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:00:59 AM

They're pulled from backyard pools and bathtubs each year, tiny limp bodies, blue and not breathing.

A young life can vanish quickly under water. A survivor can endure a lifetime of disabilities. Either way, families are torn apart by an almost always preventable tragedy.

Standard summer companions in our desert climate, swimming pools can be deadlier for children than guns. A child is 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident than in gunplay, writes Steven D. Levitt, University of Chicago economics professor and best-selling author.

Levitt analyzed child deaths from residential swimming pools and guns and found one child under 10 drowns annually for every 11,000 pools. By comparison, one child under 10 each year is killed by a gun for every 1 million guns, according to his research, outlined in a new book "Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side to Everything," which he co-wrote with journalist Stephen J. Dubner.

In part because they are so familiar, swimming pools are less frightening than guns, Levitt writes.

But the danger is clear - drowning is the leading cause of accidental death for children younger than 5 in Arizona and the second-leading cause of injury-related death nationally among children younger than 15.

Water kills an average of three children each year in Tucson and, even with proper fences, swimming lessons and caution, danger lurks.

"Living with a swimming pool in your back yard is like living next to the Grand Canyon," said Dr. Bob Berg, a pediatric intensive specialist at University Medical Center and a UA professor. "You should never feel comfortable there."

"It happened in blink of an eye."

Nothing can prepare a parent to pull a limp child from the water, wondering whether a moment of inattention has led to tragic, lifelong consequences.

On a February 2004 afternoon, Matilda Gits wheeled her 18-month-old son, Michael, in a wagon to a playground near a small lake in their East Side development. As Michael sat in the shade beneath the playground structure playing with wood chips, Gits leafed through her mail.

"When I turned around to check on him, he was gone," she said. "I didn't know where he was, but I knew I didn't have a lot of time to figure it out."

Gits looked toward the street, then toward the fenced pool on the other side of the playground. She still couldn't see her son, and started running toward the lake.

"I remember running, thinking I can't run this fast, then running faster," she said.

Michael was in the lake, under water. His lips were blue, his eyes rolled back in his head. Twelve weeks pregnant, Gits dived in, grabbed Michael from the water, slammed him on the back, and yelled, "Breathe!"

Michael started crying and neighbors called 911. Michael, now 3, is just fine, but the what-ifs still plague his mother.

After the accident, Gits pushed her neighborhood to install a fence separating the playground from the lake.

"I'm not irresponsible. If this could happen to me, it could happen to anyone. It happened in the blink of an eye," she said. "For a long time, when I'd drive down the street and hear an ambulance, I'd get sick to my stomach."

Preventable devastation

About 88 percent of children who drowned were under some form of supervision, according to a survey for the National SAFE Kids Campaign.

Small distractions such as talking to somebody, reading, eating or using the phone were a factor in most of the cases. The survey found parents are overconfident in their children's safety and abilities in water and need to be more active in supervising children.

"If something terrible really does happen, that's bad enough. If a child dies or is neurologically devastated, families don't get over it," said Berg, the UMC pediatrician. "Their life has been permanently changed in a way that's hard for most of us to believe.

"When a child dies, the devastation to a family is just overwhelming. That's true for almost all child deaths, but one of the things that's dramatic about car accidents and drowning is a few minutes before that, everything is fine. A minute later, that whole dream is shattered."

Medical costs for a near-drowning victim can be nearly $200,000 a year for long-term care and a child suffering brain damage may need millions of dollars in medical care, according to the National SAFE Kids Campaign. As many as 20 percent of near-drowning victims have severe permanent neurological damage.

There is a high divorce rate among parents who have had a child drown and many parents experience long-term psychological effects, Berg said.

Lingering effects

Lynne Gonzales knows all too well about the medical and psychological costs of a near-drowning.

In 1984, Gonzales' son Tony was 17 years old and nearly out of school for the summer when some friends pushed him into the deep end of a pool.

They didn't know he couldn't swim.

By the time they jumped in to save him, the damage had been done.

For the next 13 years, Tony lingered with severe brain damage from lack of oxygen.

"In some ways that has a much worse or longer effect than drowning," Gonzales said.

After the accident, Tony spent time in three hospitals and finally was admitted to a nursing home.

The years that followed, whether he was at home or a nursing home, Tony needed care around the clock due to a tracheotomy and a gastrotomy tube. His parents fought daily with insurance companies, all the while struggling to raise Tony's three younger sisters.

Tony's family is certain he recognized them, but he never spoke again. He could communicate by blinking his eyes, but it was inconsistent.

"There were moments of joy when Tony learned to sit, to stand, to swallow," said Gonzales, who moved to SaddleBrooke last year from Milwaukee. "If you worked closely with him you could see that much of his personality was still intact."

Tony needed around-the-clock nursing care and was at home for about six years after the accident. He died suddenly at a nursing home in 1997.

"You lose a part of your own future," Gonzales said. "You miss all those things that might have been."

The pain of a drowning or near-drowning is never-ending, said Dr. Barb Smith, a member of the Arizona chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Smith has dealt with several families who have lost a child to drowning.

"Families are devastated by it in a way they're not if they have a child who dies from leukemia or some other equally tragic event," Smith said. "What makes drowning different is it's always someone's fault. It's preventable and there's so much remorse about that."

In Arizona

* Accidental deaths in Arizona for children, 2000-2003

* Drowning: 140

* Gunshot wound: 15

Source: Arizona Child Fatality Review Program

[Tito]

Just like an adult's pool area should always be secure (and many states have laws mandating that pools have fences and locks), so should an adult's firearms collection!

Pools should absolutely be secure and SUPERVISED every second while small children are around, but comparing pools and swimming to guns is just insane. Swimming is an essential skill that children should have for their own protection. If a child falls into a pool or off a boat (even while under supervision), swimming will save them. Children do not need to be playing around with guns, and don't anyone dare post that a gun will save them... maybe later in life, if their home is invaded and (as ADULTS) they're learned proper use of one, but no 8 year old has any business touching any gun.

That is your opinion and I have NO problem with you following that practice with your child or leftwing John From Boston not having his kid ever touch a gun. But don't tell me what I can and cannot do and with my child.

[Tito]

Just like an adult's pool area should always be secure (and many states have laws mandating that pools have fences and locks), so should an adult's firearms collection!

Pools should absolutely be secure and SUPERVISED every second while small children are around, but comparing pools and swimming to guns is just insane. Swimming is an essential skill that children should have for their own protection. If a child falls into a pool or off a boat (even while under supervision), swimming will save them. Children do not need to be playing around with guns, and don't anyone dare post that a gun will save them... maybe later in life, if their home is invaded and (as ADULTS) they're learned proper use of one, but no 8 year old has any business touching any gun.

From the story I posted above:

Water kills an average of three children each year in Tucson and, even with proper fences, swimming lessons and caution, danger lurks.

[bluejeangirl76]

Arizona Daily Star ^ | June 12, 2005 | Eric Swedlund

Hold on. You're quoting from a story about ARIZONA stats, where its summer for 9 out of every 12 months and where almost every home and certainly every apartment complex and condo complex have pools. The rate of pool-related accidents is higher in a place like that but if you average that nationally, then no, not so much.

And while we're at it, those parents who aren't watching their kids by the pools can be considered just as irresponsible as the ones lettting their children treat guns like toys. but guns and swimming are not the same thing.

[Tito]

Arizona Daily Star ^ | June 12, 2005 | Eric Swedlund

Hold on. You're quoting from a story about ARIZONA stats, where its summer for 9 out of every 12 months and where almost every home and certainly every apartment complex and condo complex have pools. The rate of pool-related accidents is higher in a place like that but if you average that nationally, then no, not so much.

And while we're at it, those parents who aren't watching their kids by the pools can be considered just as irresponsible as the ones lettting their children treat guns like toys. but guns and swimming are not the same thing.

It also stated it's the second leading cause nationally. Also, guns are in season 12 months out of 12 months. All 365 days a year. The point?

[Tito]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

Also, I don't see guns on this list as a leading cause:

http://www.usa.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cf ... em_id=1030

[bluejeangirl76]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

To what? To "the point?" ? I made the point I wanted to make which was that Arizona has a higher than would be normal fatality/injury rate with children & pools, therefore not a fair example. I'm done with that point so I didn't come back.

[Don]

Tito
What's your t-shirt say (the one you're wearing while waiting for Steve Smith to sign your stuff)?

[Tito]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

To what? To "the point?" ? I made the point I wanted to make which was that Arizona has a higher than would be normal fatality/injury rate with children & pools, therefore not a fair example. I'm done with that point so I didn't come back.

That holds nationally too.

[Michigan Girl]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

To what? To "the point?" ? I made the point I wanted to make which was that Arizona has a higher than would be normal fatality/injury rate with children & pools, therefore not a fair example. I'm done with that point so I didn't come back.

That holds nationally too.

I agree with you, Tito, to a certain extent...all the laws in the world cannot erase stupidity and poor parenting!!!
Heck, you can be a perfect parent and things like this can and will still happen!! I don't know the answer, my head
tells me one thing and, well you know.....This is very disturbing, the loss of a child has got to be the worst thing any
human being could ever experience.

My heart sides w/John.....NO GUNS For Children!!!

[Enigma869]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

Also, I don't see guns on this list as a leading cause:

http://www.usa.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cf ... em_id=1030

What is your fucking point, Frito? You grab random websites with stats from two thousand fucking one and then post this shit like it's gospel! It's the internet. Rule number one is don't believe half of what you read. I don't need websites to tell me that guns and children don't belong together. Obviously, there are MANY pitfalls that cause children to get hurt. You'll learn if you ever procreate (god, help us) that children hurt themselves just walking.

The point is that when you're a parent, your job is to NOT FUCK UP! If your daughter ends up on the stripper pole, or your son blew his head off with a gun, with your permission, then you fucked up, as a parent! It's really not that complicated, nor is it even up for debate. If you had a hand in your son's death, at the ripe old age of 8, you have fucked up beyond belief, and all the gun fanatics on the planet aren't going to convince me otherwise!



John from Boston

[Tito]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

Also, I don't see guns on this list as a leading cause:

http://www.usa.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cf ... em_id=1030

What is your fucking point, Frito? You grab random websites with stats from two thousand fucking one and then post this shit like it's gospel! It's the internet. Rule number one is don't believe half of what you read. I don't need websites to tell me that guns and children don't belong together. Obviously, there are MANY pitfalls that cause children to get hurt. You'll learn if you ever procreate (god, help us) that children hurt themselves just walking.

The point is that when you're a parent, your job is to NOT FUCK UP! If your daughter ends up on the stripper pole, or your son blew his head off with a gun, with your permission, then you fucked up, as a parent! It's really not that complicated, nor is it even up for debate. If you had a hand in your son's death, at the ripe old age of 8, you have fucked up beyond belief, and all the gun fanatics on the planet aren't going to convince me otherwise!



John from Boston

If you want I can keep looking for more recent stats. The newspaper article was from '05. There probably is a lag in gathering stats so '06 is probably the best I could do. I agree don't believe what read and see on TV on the news.

The site I referenced is credible though.

I know your liberal indoctrination tells you otherwise and that actual stats don't back up your argument.

Ban swimming pools and then we can talk about guns. Don't worry about someone else kids just worry about yourself and your kids. Quit telling people what to do. It's not your problem.

[bluejeangirl76]

Don't worry about someone else kids just worry about yourself and your kids. Quit telling people what to do. It's not your problem.

Hold on, again.

When some kid is flinging french fries around a McDonald's because his mother won't teach him table manners, that's not my problem and not for me to worry about. When some mother doesn't watch her child and he falls in a pool, its tragic and sad yes, but again, does not affect me directly. When some asshole let's an 8 year old wave a gun around, its everyone's problem. That bullet can kill ANYONE lingering in the area.

[Michigan Girl]

I'm bumping this back up because I'm waiting for a response.

Also, I don't see guns on this list as a leading cause:

http://www.usa.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cf ... em_id=1030

What is your fucking point, Frito? You grab random websites with stats from two thousand fucking one and then post this shit like it's gospel! It's the internet. Rule number one is don't believe half of what you read. I don't need websites to tell me that guns and children don't belong together. Obviously, there are MANY pitfalls that cause children to get hurt. You'll learn if you ever procreate (god, help us) that children hurt themselves just walking.

The point is that when you're a parent, your job is to NOT FUCK UP! If your daughter ends up on the stripper pole, or your son blew his head off with a gun, with your permission, then you fucked up, as a parent! It's really not that complicated, nor is it even up for debate. If you had a hand in your son's death, at the ripe old age of 8, you have fucked up beyond belief, and all the gun fanatics on the planet aren't going to convince me otherwise!



John from Boston

If you want I can keep looking for more recent stats. The newspaper article was from '05. There probably is a lag in gathering stats so '06 is probably the best I could do. I agree don't believe what read and see on TV on the news.

The site I referenced is credible though.

I know your liberal indoctrination tells you otherwise and that actual stats don't back up your argument.

Ban swimming pools and then we can talk about guns. Don't worry about someone else kids just worry about yourself and your kids. Quit telling people what to do. It's not your problem.

You know what, you DO need to worry about other kids because other kids have other stupid parents!!!

Here's one for you....my sister's best friends 6 year old son was shot in the head while visiting his 6 year old
friends home!! Both parents were home, the kid went and got the gun from an unlocked nightstand drawer!!
He survived, THANK GOD!!!

[Tito]

This 2004 as well. Sorry I can't find anything more recent. But from Nebraska (throws out your 9 out of 12 months summer theory BJG).

Firearms came in last at 1%

http://www.safekidsnebraska.org/fact-sh ... 0facts.pdf

[Ehwmatt]

First of all, all the laws in the fuckin world isn't gonna stop a gun-fanatic/life-long hunter dad from showing his kids them/letting them handle them. No more than it stopped my dad from buying me a couple brews to enjoy with him at concerts from like 16, 17 yrs old and on.

Do I think it's a terrible idea to let an 8 year old handle a gun? Yes

Do I think it's worthwhile drafting up laws to stop it from happening? No - in many instances/homes, it's going to happen with or without the law.

Legislators stop shit like this from happening. Just like all the old sodomy laws and whatnot have been tossed out - you can't possibly stop it from happening, as unsafe/reprehensible/offensive/or whatever you think it is that it may be... They need to focus on important shit