OT: Scott Boras

[Uno_up]

What a fucktard!
According to the Boston Herald, agent Scott Boras said Tuesday that Jorge Posada's four-year, $52.4 million contract "will serve as a benchmark for any team looking to land" Jason Varitek.

To put the absurdity of that comparison into context, consider that Posada hit .338/.426/.543 with 20 homers and 90 RBI in the season before signing his four-year deal. Meanwhile, Varitek batted .220/.313/.359 with 13 homers and 43 RBI in 2008. Gotta love agents.

[Saint John]

While I believe Varitek has priceless leadership skills it's also worth noting that he simply can't hit anymore. He'd be a great addition to a contending team that lacks real leadership and needs a catcher...like the Mets. I think he's worth about 5 million a year.

[Uno_up]

Yeah...I just hate that fucker though.
He's trying to get Manny a 6-year deal, even though he's 35!
Even worse, he's convincing high school players that they're the next Greg Maddux and demanding teams to sign them for an exuberent amount of cash, so that cash-strapped teams with good draft positions can't afford them.
His greed is out of control.

[Enigma869]

Yeah...I just hate that fucker though.
He's trying to get Manny a 6-year deal, even though he's 35!
Even worse, he's convincing high school players that they're the next Greg Maddux and demanding teams to sign them for an exuberent amount of cash, so that cash-strapped teams with good draft positions can't afford them.
His greed is out of control.

Boras has always been a fucking douche and that will never change! As for Manny...He got Bonds a 6 year deal when he was older than 35, so I suspect he'll find Manny a similar deal!


John from Boston

[S2M]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

[Don]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

Is that 55 hits? Pathetic considering you have Ichiro hitting no less than 200 hits every season he's been a Mariner.

[Journey/Survivor]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

When he signed with the Indians it was as our backup catcher behind Sandy Alomar, and he played quite well as a backup. He was brought in for his defensive ability, game calling, and leadership.

[Enigma869]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

The catcher thing is really something that has had me baffled for years. When I was a kid, most catchers were very good hitters. Now, almost all catchers suck, offensively! Russell Martin with the Dodgers, Joe Mauer with the Twins, Ryan Doumit of the Pirates, Brian McCann of the Braves, and Bengie Molina of the Giants are the only guys who seem to know how to hit. Even Victor Martinez (who doesn't even catch as much these days) of the Indians completely sucked this season offensively! It's really become a dreadful offensive position. The days of Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk are long gone.


John from Boston

[Tito]

Did you see the article yesterday about Boras, other agents, and GMs are going to try to adjust to Obama's tax plan. It will probably move salaries up a little.

[RockitRide]

Did you see the article yesterday about Boras, other agents, and GMs are going to try to adjust to Obama's tax plan. It will probably move salaries up a little.

Never mind those guys...How do I adjust to Osama Obama's tax plan? Any team that signs Manny will be cursed for a 86 years. I hate Manny's guts with every fiber in my body.

[brywool]

He was awesome on Happy Days.

[Journey/Survivor]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

The catcher thing is really something that has had me baffled for years. When I was a kid, most catchers were very good hitters. Now, almost all catchers suck, offensively! Russell Martin with the Dodgers, Joe Mauer with the Twins, Ryan Doumit of the Pirates, Brian McCann of the Braves, and Bengie Molina of the Giants are the only guys who seem to know how to hit. Even Victor Martinez (who doesn't even catch as much these days) of the Indians completely sucked this season offensively! It's really become a dreadful offensive position. The days of Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk are long gone.


John from Boston

You do know that Victor Martinez had a couple of fairly serious injuries this past season that had a huge affect on his hitting?

[annie89509]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

The catcher thing is really something that has had me baffled for years. When I was a kid, most catchers were very good hitters. Now, almost all catchers suck, offensively! Russell Martin with the Dodgers, Joe Mauer with the Twins, Ryan Doumit of the Pirates, Brian McCann of the Braves, and Bengie Molina of the Giants are the only guys who seem to know how to hit. Even Victor Martinez (who doesn't even catch as much these days) of the Indians completely sucked this season offensively! It's really become a dreadful offensive position. The days of Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk are long gone.


John from Boston

Haha, good hitting catchers must be cyclical. When I was a kid ('60s-early '70s) following baseball religiously, catchers were low hitting, slow-running players. That's why they were invariably down at the bottom of the batting order. Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk were not the norm. Heck, Bench hit in the high 200's with 20 homeruns -- and he was considered a superstar. He was outstanding defensively, too, though. Fisk did hit in the 300's, I believe, and won some Golden Gloves, too.

No, you didn't see good hitting catchers as the norm (those hitting close to 300 and with power) until the '80s, I believe. Mike Piazza with the Dodgers comes to mind.

[Don]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

The catcher thing is really something that has had me baffled for years. When I was a kid, most catchers were very good hitters. Now, almost all catchers suck, offensively! Russell Martin with the Dodgers, Joe Mauer with the Twins, Ryan Doumit of the Pirates, Brian McCann of the Braves, and Bengie Molina of the Giants are the only guys who seem to know how to hit. Even Victor Martinez (who doesn't even catch as much these days) of the Indians completely sucked this season offensively! It's really become a dreadful offensive position. The days of Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk are long gone.


John from Boston

Haha, good hitting catchers must be cyclical. When I was a kid ('60s-early '70s) following baseball religiously, catchers were low hitting, slow-running players. That's why they were invariably down at the bottom of the batting order. Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk were not the norm. Heck, Bench hit in the high 200's with 20 homeruns -- and he was considered a superstar. He was outstanding defensively, too, though. Fisk did hit in the 300's, I believe, and won some Golden Gloves, too.

No, you didn't see good hitting catchers as the norm (those hitting close to 300 and with power) until the '80s, I believe. Mike Piazza with the Dodgers comes to mind.

Mike sucked as a catcher though, so he need to be good hitter to keep his job.

[annie89509]

Here's another Boston catcher that had a MISERABLE final year with the team....

TONY FUCKING PENA.....

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1980 23 PIT NL 8 21 1 9 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 4 .429 .429 .571 174 12 0 0 0 0 1
1981 24 PIT NL 66 210 16 63 9 1 2 17 1 2 8 23 .300 .326 .381 97 80 2 2 2 1 4 RoY-6
1982 25 PIT NL 138 497 53 147 28 4 11 63 2 5 17 57 .296 .323 .435 107 216 3 2 3 4 17 AS
1983 26 PIT NL 151 542 51 163 22 3 15 70 6 7 31 73 .301 .338 .435 111 236 6 1 8 0 13 MVP-12
1984 27 PIT NL 147 546 77 156 27 2 15 78 12 8 36 79 .286 .333 .425 112 232 4 2 5 4 14 AS
1985 28 PIT NL 147 546 53 136 27 2 10 59 12 8 29 67 .249 .284 .361 81 197 7 5 4 0 19 AS
1986 29 PIT NL 144 510 56 147 26 2 10 52 9 10 53 69 .288 .356 .406 109 207 0 1 6 1 21 AS
1987 30 STL NL 116 384 40 82 13 4 5 44 6 1 36 54 .214 .281 .307 55 118 2 2 9 1 19
1988 31 STL NL 149 505 55 133 23 1 10 51 6 2 33 60 .263 .308 .372 94 188 3 4 11 1 12
1989 32 STL NL 141 424 36 110 17 2 4 37 5 3 35 33 .259 .318 .337 86 143 2 1 19 2 19 AS
1990 33 BOS AL 143 491 62 129 19 1 7 56 8 6 43 71 .263 .322 .348 84 171 2 3 3 1 23 MVP-21
1991 34 BOS AL 141 464 45 107 23 2 5 48 8 3 37 53 .231 .291 .321 66 149 4 3 1 4 23
1992 35 BOS AL 133 410 39 99 21 1 1 38 3 2 24 61 .241 .284 .305 62 125 13 2 0 1 11
1993 36 BOS AL 126 304 20 55 11 0 4 19 1 3 25 46 .181 .246 .257 32 78 13 3 0 2 12
1994 37 CLE AL 40 112 18 33 8 1 2 10 0 1 9 11 .295 .341 .438 101 49 3 2 0 0 6
1995 38 CLE AL 91 263 25 69 15 0 5 28 1 0 14 44 .262 .302 .376 75 99 1 0 1 1 9
1996 39 CLE AL 67 174 14 34 4 0 1 27 0 1 15 25 .195 .255 .236 26 41 3 3 0 0 8
1997 40 TOT 40 86 6 15 4 0 0 10 0 0 10 16 .174 .255 .221 29 19 0 2 0 0 3
CHW AL 31 67 4 11 1 0 0 8 0 0 8 13 .164 .250 .179 17 12 0 1 0 0 3
HOU NL 9 19 2 4 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 3 .211 .273 .368 69 7 0 1 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
18 Seasons 1988 6489 667 1687 298 27 107 708 80 63 455 846 .260 .309 .364 84 2360 68 38 72 23 234


His stats were worse than Tek's, and Tony got a deal with the Tribe......

The catcher thing is really something that has had me baffled for years. When I was a kid, most catchers were very good hitters. Now, almost all catchers suck, offensively! Russell Martin with the Dodgers, Joe Mauer with the Twins, Ryan Doumit of the Pirates, Brian McCann of the Braves, and Bengie Molina of the Giants are the only guys who seem to know how to hit. Even Victor Martinez (who doesn't even catch as much these days) of the Indians completely sucked this season offensively! It's really become a dreadful offensive position. The days of Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk are long gone.


John from Boston

Haha, good hitting catchers must be cyclical. When I was a kid ('60s-early '70s) following baseball religiously, catchers were low hitting, slow-running players. That's why they were invariably down at the bottom of the batting order. Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk were not the norm. Heck, Bench hit in the high 200's with 20 homeruns -- and he was considered a superstar. He was outstanding defensively, too, though. Fisk did hit in the 300's, I believe, and won some Golden Gloves, too.

No, you didn't see good hitting catchers as the norm (those hitting close to 300 and with power) until the '80s, I believe. Mike Piazza with the Dodgers comes to mind.

Mike sucked as a catcher though, so he need to be good hitter to keep his job.

Really? He never won a golden glove? I was no longer following baseball that closely in the 80s. The 49'ers (Joe MOntana) and football took center stage at the point .

[Saint John]

Really? He never won a golden glove?

Gold Glove?!?! That fucker couldn't throw out the garbage!!!

[Enigma869]

You do know that Victor Martinez had a couple of fairly serious injuries this past season that had a huge affect on his hitting?

Right, and Jason Varitek went through a divorce. I could give a fuck. It doesn't change my larger point that the vast majority of catchers SUCK, offensively!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Haha, good hitting catchers must be cyclical. When I was a kid ('60s-early '70s) following baseball religiously, catchers were low hitting, slow-running players. That's why they were invariably down at the bottom of the batting order. Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk were not the norm. Heck, Bench hit in the high 200's with 20 homeruns -- and he was considered a superstar. He was outstanding defensively, too, though. Fisk did hit in the 300's, I believe, and won some Golden Gloves, too.

No, you didn't see good hitting catchers as the norm (those hitting close to 300 and with power) until the '80s, I believe. Mike Piazza with the Dodgers comes to mind.

I think you're missing my point. I'm not suggesting that every catcher from the 70's was a prolific hitter, because I understand that isn't the case. The truth of the matter is that there have only been a whopping 16 catchers elected to the hall of fame, in over 100 years. That's proof positive that there has never really been a "golden era of catchers". If anything, it proves they've always sucked. The difference is that 20 or 30 years ago, most of them hit at least .260 to .280. These days, most of them are lucky to hit .230. As for the slow thing...That's never changed. They were slow 30 years ago, and they're still slow today. As for Piazza...he never played in the 80's, but you are correct that he was a prolific offensive player. He has a career average of over .300, and may be the only catcher who has ever pulled that off!


John from Boston