OT: Proposition 8

[Enigma869]

Believe it or not, John, not every Republican is a card-carrying member of the bible-thumping religious right.

I'm not sure where this idiotic comment comes from but I have certainly NEVER said that every Republican was a bible thumper! I have plenty of friends who are Republican who never set foot in a church. I simply think that religion has ZERO place in policy making.


John from Boston

[Ehwmatt]

Believe it or not, John, not every Republican is a card-carrying member of the bible-thumping religious right.

I'm not sure where this idiotic comment comes from but I have certainly NEVER said that every Republican was a bible thumper! I have plenty of friends who are Republican who never set foot in a church. I simply think that religion has ZERO place in policy making.


John from Boston

Oh, I wonder where it comes from. please.

[brywool]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

[Don]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

I think the only caveman that exists in the world time line set out by the bible would have to be the Geico guy.

[Ehwmatt]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

I think the only caveman that exists in the world time line set out by the bible would have to be the Geico guy.

Can they please end that mascot for good? So bad.

[Voyager]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

I think the only caveman that exists in the world time line set out by the bible would have to be the Geico guy.

[Don]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

I think the only caveman that exists in the world time line set out by the bible would have to be the Geico guy.

Can they please end that mascot for good? So bad.

I think they like to keep all their irons in the fire: caveman, lizard, famous icon voice overs. They don't want to miss anybody or any market.

[conversationpc]

So, in California it was ONLY the 'religious right' that voted for Prop 8 ?


later~

Blacks, for instance, voted 70% to 30% in favor of Prop 8.

[StevePerryHair]

So, in California it was ONLY the 'religious right' that voted for Prop 8 ?


later~

Blacks, for instance, voted 70% to 30% in favor of Prop 8.

Many of them were the religious left though.

[conversationpc]

When God said for people of the same sex not to lay with another person of the same sex and have sex, he meant what he said.

Okay Lowdbrent, let's say go along with your argument for a moment. Which one of the commands from the Bible below do you think should be obeyed?

Leviticus 20:9: “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: He has cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Leviticus 20:10: “And the man that commiteth adultery with another man’s wife...the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”

Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: They shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Leviticus 20:27: “A man also or a woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones.”

If God meant what he said, as you say, are you ready to obey all of these commands... or are you just going to single out the gays?

You need to talk to orthodox Jews about this one. They are the ones who claim to follow the Torah (Old Testement law). Christians use the Old Testement, not to follow it's teachings to the letter of the law, but to understand about God's interactions and relationship to his people. Christians actually follow Jesus and the teachings of the New Testement.

[conversationpc]

So, in California it was ONLY the 'religious right' that voted for Prop 8 ?


later~

Blacks, for instance, voted 70% to 30% in favor of Prop 8.

Many of them were the religious left though.

I'm glad someone brought this up because the left has a just as active, and perhaps moreso, element of its party that wants religion to interfere with government. If it's wrong on one side, it must also be wrong on the other.

[StevePerryHair]

So, in California it was ONLY the 'religious right' that voted for Prop 8 ?


later~

Blacks, for instance, voted 70% to 30% in favor of Prop 8.

Many of them were the religious left though.

I'm glad someone brought this up because the left has a just as active, and perhaps moreso, element of its party that wants religion to interfere with government. If it's wrong on one side, it must also be wrong on the other.

I agree, it exists on both sides. It couldn't have passed if not for that. I posted a youtube that I'm sure no one listened to in an earlier post of Wanda Sykes talking about the religious blacks that were protesting for Prop 8. She is a comedian so of course she made jokes about it, but there was a large religious movement with this on the left too.

[Ehwmatt]

So, in California it was ONLY the 'religious right' that voted for Prop 8 ?


later~

Blacks, for instance, voted 70% to 30% in favor of Prop 8.

Many of them were the religious left though.

I'm glad someone brought this up because the left has a just as active, and perhaps moreso, element of its party that wants religion to interfere with government. If it's wrong on one side, it must also be wrong on the other.

Like I said earlier, society's decree can't be the ultimate authority when it goes according to your beliefs and be invalidated by default if it goes against your beliefs.

[Don]

If it goes against what you believe and what you hear on Sunday's, that's fine, but for the Mormons to put money out there to push a ballot measure is just wrong. If the Baptists or Catholics spent 10 million dollars towards getting a no vote it would be the same thing. If you have the money to put your voice in politics and support a ballet measure then you obviously have the money to pay taxes like other corporations.

[Barb]

If it goes against what you believe and what you hear on Sunday's, that's fine, but for the Mormons to put money out there to push a ballot measure is just wrong. If the Baptists or Catholics spent 10 million dollars towards getting a no vote it would be the same thing. If you have the money to put your voice in politics and support a ballet measure then you obviously have the money to pay taxes like other corporations.

Regardless of who put in money, the people still came out and voted against gay marriage for the 2nd time in California. I'm sure another court will over rule the people's vote again. Not sure why we even bother having elections any more, really.

[brywool]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

I think the only caveman that exists in the world time line set out by the bible would have to be the Geico guy.

Can they please end that mascot for good? So bad.

The mascot's funny, but that show... oh god... the humanity

[Ehwmatt]

I cannot believe some of the ill-informed crap I'm reading in here... amazing that in 2008 cavemen still friggin' roam the world... (oh wait, there was never any such thing, right?)

I think the only caveman that exists in the world time line set out by the bible would have to be the Geico guy.

Can they please end that mascot for good? So bad.

The mascot's funny, but that show... oh god... the humanity

Did that show ever even get aired? I remember hearing about it being in the works...

[Rhiannon]

The mascot's funny, but that show... oh god... the humanity

The mascot was funny the first time. Now it's getting straight up ricockulous.

[DracIsBack]

In the grand scheme of all things to be worried about right now in the world, I think our energies are better spent elsewhere than telling people who love each other that they can't get married. Hungry people, a collapsing economy, disease, wars, abused children ... surely there's enough to keep our policy makers busy?

[Ehwmatt]

In the grand scheme of all things to be worried about right now in the world, I think our energies are better spent elsewhere than telling people who love each other that they can't get married. Hungry people, a collapsing economy, disease, wars, abused children ... surely there's enough to keep our policy makers busy?

One might think

[Rhiannon]

In the grand scheme of all things to be worried about right now in the world, I think our energies are better spent elsewhere than telling people who love each other that they can't get married. Hungry people, a collapsing economy, disease, wars, abused children ... surely there's enough to keep our policy makers busy?

One might think

And a fantastic point, too.
In a world so full of sadness, negativity, and hate... trying to prevent love in other people is astoundingly offensive.

[Voyager]

In the grand scheme of all things to be worried about right now in the world, I think our energies are better spent elsewhere than telling people who love each other that they can't get married. Hungry people, a collapsing economy, disease, wars, abused children ... surely there's enough to keep our policy makers busy?

One might think

And a fantastic point, too.
In a world so full of sadness, negativity, and hate... trying to prevent love in other people is astoundingly offensive.

Exactly. I am baffled as to why people feel the need to try to prevent others from finding happiness and acceptance in society. There is simply no logical reason for it. We are supposed to be a free nation. Why can't we extend civil liberties to all people - black, white, yellow, brown, gay, straight, etc.?

[Uno_up]

Written by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament, speaking about the passions which dishonor God:
Romans 1:26-27
...Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

[Enigma869]

Exactly. I am baffled as to why people feel the need to try to prevent others from finding happiness and acceptance in society. There is simply no logical reason for it. We are supposed to be a free nation. Why can't we extend civil liberties to all people - black, white, yellow, brown, gay, straight, etc.?

Sadly, it almost always comes back to religion and the need of many to tell you what their religious beliefs are and how wrong The Bible says these "sins" are.


John from Boston

[Don]

In the grand scheme of all things to be worried about right now in the world, I think our energies are better spent elsewhere than telling people who love each other that they can't get married. Hungry people, a collapsing economy, disease, wars, abused children ... surely there's enough to keep our policy makers busy?

One might think

And a fantastic point, too.
In a world so full of sadness, negativity, and hate... trying to prevent love in other people is astoundingly offensive.

Exactly. I am baffled as to why people feel the need to try to prevent others from finding happiness and acceptance in society. There is simply no logical reason for it.

There are many "small"people in the world. They want to be heard but feel they are being ignored, when something comes up like this, they have an opportunity to be noticed. Many of us can look at gays and even if we don't agree with their lifestyle we let it pass because we realize they are humans like us, and being creatures of thought and reason, we realize every life should be lived in the spirit of upmost happiness and why begrudge them even though we don't quite understand them. The "small" people are the ones who think their world should be the only world and condemn everyone who falls afoul of them. They wear the face of a caring person who is worried that your soul won't pass muster at the pearly gates, but when you refuse to adopt to their own code of morality, they secretly share a gleeful thought of the retribution their lord will put upon you for your perceived callousness towards the good book. Their doctrine is " you are with us or against us". Their religion becomes their power and the wrath of the lord their stick that shall punish the offenders. Because of this big stick that they think they are carrying, they walk around with a smile on their face, but inside delight in the thought the sinners they walk amongst will one day be cast down into the fires of hell. When they support initiatives like this, they feel they are doing you a favor, saving you from yourself and they feel at the moment that have become a "big" person, which is what they have been trying to become or emulate during most of their earthly existence.

[Voyager]

Written by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament, speaking about the passions which dishonor God:
Romans 1:26-27
...Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Written by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament, speaking about another passion which dishonors God:

1st Corinthians 14:34

"Let the women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. And If they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."

Are women allowed to speak in your church? If so, why are they disobeying God's commands? Muzzle those rebellious bitches and obey the Lord's commands!

My personal belief is that stuff like this is outdated and barbaric. The New Testament also talks about how slaves should be treated. Do you have any slaves? If so, do you treat them according to the commands of the Bible?

I'm just trying to make a point. How can you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to obey? If you don't obey all of them, how can you expect others to?

[Sarah]

I can't marry an 8-year-old, even if in my warped mind I am in love with her, society hasn't deemed it fit. Am I being denied a right?

Stupid analogy, considering that marrying an 8 year old is child abuse, and therefore is illegal!

8 year olds cannot possibly consent like adult gay people can. Moot point, Matt.

[Sarah]

Not sure why we even bother having elections any more, really.

Laws have been voted and overturned since the founding fathers.

All part of the process.

[RossValoryRocks]

I think homosexuality is morally wrong...but it is not MY place NOR the place of GOVERNMENT to inflict those views upon another person.

Prop 8 is WRONG and the people who support it are as wrong BIBLICALLY as they say the homosexuals are.

REMOVE the log from your own eye before attempt to take a splinter from someone elses...
and JUDGE NOT, LEST YOU BE JUDGED.

And this is coming from a dyed in the wool religious conservative, but one who believes it is not government's place to interfere in people's personal lives.

[Uno_up]

Written by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament, speaking about the passions which dishonor God:
Romans 1:26-27
...Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Written by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament, speaking about another passion which dishonors God:

1st Corinthians 14:34

"Let the women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. And If they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."

Are women allowed to speak in your church? If so, why are they disobeying God's commands? Muzzle those rebellious bitches and obey the Lord's commands!

My personal belief is that stuff like this is outdated and barbaric. The New Testament also talks about how slaves should be treated. Do you have any slaves? If so, do you treat them according to the commands of the Bible?

I'm just trying to make a point. How can you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to obey? If you don't obey all of them, how can you expect others to?

Stick to the subject at hand, without hijacking the thread. Start another thread on these matters of interests to you and I will address them accordingly.