OT: Proposition 8

[Tito]

As many white Americans, I was raised in a racist, anti-gay environment. The N word was used frequently among my family and friends, as was the term "faggot". While I realize there are some bad gay people and some bad black people, the ratio of good and bad is not much different than among the white heterosexual population. I think our nation is trying to outgrow its bigotries... but we have a long way to go. The way I see it, people can no more change their gayness than they can change the color of their skin. I don't think they should be condemned for either one.

If you're ever feeling nostalgic for the old days. Feel free to stop by. I'll bring you back.



I'm kidding. This is a joke!

[stevew2]

As many white Americans, I was raised in a racist, anti-gay environment. The N word was used frequently among my family and friends, as was the term "faggot". While I realize there are some bad gay people and some bad black people, the ratio of good and bad is not much different than among the white heterosexual population. I think our nation is trying to outgrow its bigotries... but we have a long way to go. The way I see it, people can no more change their gayness than they can change the color of their skin. I don't think they should be condemned for either one.

If you're ever feeling nostalgic for the old days. Feel free to stop by. I'll bring you back.



I'm kidding. This is a joke!

I typed in Jonathan Cain Gay on google and got this thread .Way to go Tito,you helped Friga cum out of the closet

[FishinMagician]

I don't see what the big deal is with allowing common law rights to same-sex couples. Marriage is historically religious based. NOT saying it is NOW, but that is where the whole idea came from. These people just want some of the breaks and benefits other couples get. So let them have the rights. Leave the marriage to it's intended purpose. Commitment is commitment. If you love someone, you don't need a farcical ceremony and paperwork to prove it. But you should be allowed in their ICU room.

ya whats the big deal about marriage? just shack up!!

[FishinMagician]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

[StevePerryHair]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't athiests and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

[Rick]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

[StevePerryHair]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

[tammy]

Regardless of who put in money, the people still came out and voted against gay marriage for the 2nd time in California. I'm sure another court will over rule the people's vote again. Not sure why we even bother having elections any more, really.

My thoughts too. Ellen will probably have another wedding.

[Rick]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

[Blueskies]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

[StevePerryHair]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

Do I have to keep reminding you that you are not old

[Rick]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

Do I have to keep reminding you that you are not old

I'll be 46 soon. The next hurdle and I'm officially old.

[Rip Rokken]

I thought Proposition 8 was what a girl was likely to get from Saint John after a 5am last call... haha!

[StevePerryHair]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

Do I have to keep reminding you that you are not old

I'll be 46 soon. The next hurdle and I'm officially old.

We went on a field trip to St. Augustine, Fl this week, and they told us the Spaniards in the 1700's died in their early 40's and you were ancient if you lived to be 50 Glad 50 IS NOT ANCIENT these days 46 is still young Isnt' that middle aged? You could live another 46 years so that makes you young!

[Rick]

I attended Catholic school for seven years of my life. It was always stressed to not take everything in the Bible verbatim, rather try to grasp the meaning behind the words.

I attended a Catholic school for five years where the religious laws were very strict. Then I went to a Pentecostal church for several years where they took the Bible as the inerrant Word Of God. I saw so much hypocrisy that it turned me competely away from religion. What I saw were people using the Bible as a weapon to beat people into submission with. They were good at telling others how to live their lives and giving them chapter and verse to back it up... but they didn't live by their own rules. They blasted gays with condemning verses only to make themselves feel more holy. When they found out that the worship leader who had been at the church for 18 years was gay, they excommunicated him. Several weeks later he committed suicide. After the pastor heard about it, he told the church that the guy went to hell. That was when I decided that I was done with religion.

most people i know who went to catholic schools are now atheists lol

Well most I know who did aren't atheists and still Catholic. My husband and myself included. Of course the only reason I know the ones who are still Catholic may be because I see them at church I think you have people turn away from all kinds of churches when they grow up though, not just Catholic.

I think it's harder to maintain the faith as you get older. When you're young you'll believe anything anyone tells you. Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. You know how freakin pissed I was?

I won't even tell you about the tooth fairy then

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

Do I have to keep reminding you that you are not old

I'll be 46 soon. The next hurdle and I'm officially old.

We went on a field trip to St. Augustine, Fl this week, and they told us the Spaniards in the 1700's died in their early 40's and you were ancient if you lived to be 50 Glad 50 IS NOT ANCIENT these days 46 is still young Isnt' that middle aged? You could live another 46 years so that makes you young!

I went to St. Augustine years ago. They've got the 'oldest' everything. Really cool town. And thanks, I feel younger now.

[Voyager]

Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny.

You're kidding, right? Santa is not real?

[Rick]

Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny.

You're kidding, right? Santa is not real?

That's what I'm hearing.

[treetopovskaya]

he is real! i saw him surfing just last xmas! }:C)

Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny.

You're kidding, right? Santa is not real?

That's what I'm hearing.

[StevePerryHair]

[I went to St. Augustine years ago. They've got the 'oldest' everything. Really cool town. And thanks, I feel younger now.

They do!! The kids love the oldest school house, where they have a kid in the "dungeon" for misbehaving Kind of makes them feel lucky their teacher only yells It is a cool place to visit though. I can't wait to go back. Lots of history there. Glad you feel younger

[StevePerryHair]

he is real! i saw him surfing just last xmas! }:C)

Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny.

You're kidding, right? Santa is not real?

That's what I'm hearing.

Good save! You never know, they could be ruining Christmas for some young one who lurks here They get younger and younger Or we just get older

[Lula]

Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny.

You're kidding, right? Santa is not real?

That's what I'm hearing.

this is completely irresponsible posting and i'm telling!!!

[Lula]

[I went to St. Augustine years ago. They've got the 'oldest' everything. Really cool town. And thanks, I feel younger now.

They do!! The kids love the oldest school house, where they have a kid in the "dungeon" for misbehaving Kind of makes them feel lucky their teacher only yells It is a cool place to visit though. I can't wait to go back. Lots of history there. Glad you feel younger

a dungeon? very cool. i could use that as an option!

[treetopovskaya]

for real... he was hanging 10! i was walking on the pier with my man & there santa was... surfin! }:C)

he is real! i saw him surfing just last xmas! }:C)

Just lately I've found out that there really isn't a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny.

You're kidding, right? Santa is not real?

That's what I'm hearing.

Good save! You never know, they could be ruining Christmas for some young one who lurks here They get younger and younger Or we just get older

[Voyager]

for real... he was hanging 10! i was walking on the pier with my man & there santa was... surfin!

Whew! For a moment there I was worried that Santa was not real. Don't do that to me Rick... you meany!

I wonder what Santa thinks about Proposition 8? I hope he's not.....



.... nahhhh.... Mrs. Santa would cut his nuts off!

[StevePerryHair]

[I went to St. Augustine years ago. They've got the 'oldest' everything. Really cool town. And thanks, I feel younger now.

They do!! The kids love the oldest school house, where they have a kid in the "dungeon" for misbehaving Kind of makes them feel lucky their teacher only yells It is a cool place to visit though. I can't wait to go back. Lots of history there. Glad you feel younger

a dungeon? very cool. i could use that as an option!

It was a little boxed place under the steps where they had to go sit on the floor and do their work They have this fake little boy in the museum sitting there under the steps with his books and a half eaten apple. So they even get a visual! And then they also have this poor little boy in dunce cap, an animatronic kid who talks to his animatronic teacher in the museum, and they talk about it. They explain to the kids that if you didn't learn something as quickly as the other children,you had to wear a dunce cap in class I always wondered where the "dunce cap" thing came from and I guess now we know I wonder if kids realize how much better they have it now!

[Rick]

[I went to St. Augustine years ago. They've got the 'oldest' everything. Really cool town. And thanks, I feel younger now.

They do!! The kids love the oldest school house, where they have a kid in the "dungeon" for misbehaving Kind of makes them feel lucky their teacher only yells It is a cool place to visit though. I can't wait to go back. Lots of history there. Glad you feel younger

a dungeon? very cool. i could use that as an option!

It was a little boxed place under the steps where they had to go sit on the floor and do their work They have this fake little boy in the museum sitting there under the steps with his books and a half eaten apple. So they even get a visual! And then they also have this poor little boy in dunce cap, an animatronic kid who talks to his animatronic teacher in the museum, and they talk about it. They explain to the kids that if you didn't learn something as quickly as the other children,you had to wear a dunce cap in class I always wondered where the "dunce cap" thing came from and I guess now we know I wonder if kids realize how much better they have it now!

I either didn't see that part, or they added that after I was there. Sounds cool.

[Abitaman]

The reason people hate gayness is because it is something that is foreign to most people. Because they don't have an attraction to people of the same sex, they see homosexuality as something deviant and evil. This is the same type of bigotry that people have towards interracial marriages. When the community at large becomes opposed to something, the people in the group develop a dislike or even a hatred towards it. This is why different cultures have different religious beliefs. Muslim communities turn out more Muslims... Christian communities turn out more Christians... and bigoted communities turn out more bigots.

Tell me this... why do people single out gays for religious condemnation based on Bible verses, when the same chapter in Deutoronomy that commands us to kill gays also tells us to kill non-virgin brides, adulterers, sorcerers, rebellious children, etc.?

Why are you pulling from the old testament? We no longer live under the law of Moses Christ changed alot of the that, we are still follow the ten commandments, but kill people for doing wrong. Read the whole bible, we are under the law but grace.
Having said that I voted against gay marriage, it is a sin. Gay people don't scare me, even when they "flame on".

[Rick]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I firmly believe that there will eventually, at least, be a gay union established so they can enjoy the same rights to the benefits of marriage that everyone else has. I would support this.

If they continue their fight to make it legal for them to be actually married, it may be a longer and tougher fight, but I believe they will eventually win that one also. Whether I or anyone else like it or not.

[Tito]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I mostly stayed out of it. That's why.

If they continue their fight to make it legal for them to be actually married, it may be a longer and tougher fight, but I believe they will eventually win that one also. Whether I or anyone else like it or not.

Unfortunately, this is true. They are going to get it eventually. I just hope it isn't by the courts roughshoding it through. It should be done by a vote by state.

[Deb]

You've got to be kidding. At my age that could really start paying off!

Do I have to keep reminding you that you are not old

I'll be 46 soon. The next hurdle and I'm officially old.

Bah! I'm only a year younger than you, you're only as old as ya feel! Music keeps ya young, I doth prescribe more shows Ricky!