OT: Proposition 8

[Rick]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I mostly stayed out of it. That's why.

Sure, which shows restraint, which shows character.

If they continue their fight to make it legal for them to be actually married, it may be a longer and tougher fight, but I believe they will eventually win that one also. Whether I or anyone else like it or not.

Unfortunately, this is true. They are going to get it eventually. I just hope it isn't by the courts roughshoding it through. It should be done by a vote by state.

I hope you're right.

[Tito]

Unfortunately, this is true. They are going to get it eventually. I just hope it isn't by the courts roughshoding it through. It should be done by a vote by state.

I hope you're right.

I hope I'm wrong (as far as them getting it).

[Enigma869]

CT clears the way for same sex marriage...

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/national/BO94852/

Excerpt from article:

The judge ruling followed a historic decision by the Connecticut Supreme Court.

The high court ruled 4-3 on Oct. 10 that same-sex couples have the right to wed rather than accept a civil union law designed to give them the same rights as married couples.

John from Boston

[Voyager]

The reason people hate gayness is because it is something that is foreign to most people. Because they don't have an attraction to people of the same sex, they see homosexuality as something deviant and evil. This is the same type of bigotry that people have towards interracial marriages. When the community at large becomes opposed to something, the people in the group develop a dislike or even a hatred towards it. This is why different cultures have different religious beliefs. Muslim communities turn out more Muslims... Christian communities turn out more Christians... and bigoted communities turn out more bigots.

Tell me this... why do people single out gays for religious condemnation based on Bible verses, when the same chapter in Deutoronomy that commands us to kill gays also tells us to kill non-virgin brides, adulterers, sorcerers, rebellious children, etc.?

Why are you pulling from the old testament? We no longer live under the law of Moses Christ changed alot of the that, we are still follow the ten commandments, but kill people for doing wrong. Read the whole bible, we are under the law but grace.
Having said that I voted against gay marriage, it is a sin. Gay people don't scare me, even when they "flame on".

You said "We no longer live under the law of Moses" and "We are still following the ten commandments". Who are you referring to when you say "we"? That's the problem with religion. It acts as if "we" should all follow your religious laws. I think you should replace the word "we" with "I". Follow your own religious rules, but don't force them on others. Why should you care what gay people do? Does it threaten your holiness? Does it make your god less powerful? Does it threaten your sexuality? If not, then feel free to live however you want to - but don't impose it on others. The USA is not ruled by the Bible. We have a constitution that is supposed to treat all people equally. Trying to force people you don't even know to live by the Bible is a violation of church and state... and I believe this silly Proposition 8 will eventually be overturned when lawmakers realize that the Bible is not the U.S. Constitution.

I am not gay (I'm married with two kids), but I believe in equal rights for all human beings. We have no right to impose our religious morals on anyone but ourselves.

[Michigan Girl]

The reason people hate gayness is because it is something that is foreign to most people. Because they don't have an attraction to people of the same sex, they see homosexuality as something deviant and evil. This is the same type of bigotry that people have towards interracial marriages. When the community at large becomes opposed to something, the people in the group develop a dislike or even a hatred towards it. This is why different cultures have different religious beliefs. Muslim communities turn out more Muslims... Christian communities turn out more Christians... and bigoted communities turn out more bigots.

Tell me this... why do people single out gays for religious condemnation based on Bible verses, when the same chapter in Deutoronomy that commands us to kill gays also tells us to kill non-virgin brides, adulterers, sorcerers, rebellious children, etc.?

Why are you pulling from the old testament? We no longer live under the law of Moses Christ changed alot of the that, we are still follow the ten commandments, but kill people for doing wrong. Read the whole bible, we are under the law but grace.
Having said that I voted against gay marriage, it is a sin. Gay people don't scare me, even when they "flame on".

You said "We no longer live under the law of Moses" and "We are still following the ten commandments". Who are you referring to when you say "we"? That's the problem with religion. It acts as if "we" should all follow your religious laws. I think you should replace the word "we" with "I". Follow your own religious rules, but don't force them on others. Why should you care what gay people do? Does it threaten your holiness? Does it make your god less powerful? Does it threaten your sexuality? If not, then feel free to live however you want to - but don't impose it on others. The USA is not ruled by the Bible. We have a constitution that is supposed to treat all people equally. Trying to force people you don't even know to live by the Bible is a violation of church and state... and I believe this silly Proposition 8 will eventually be overturned when lawmakers realize that the Bible is not the U.S. Constitution.

I am not gay (I'm married with two kids), but I believe in equal rights for all human beings. We have no right to impose our religious morals on anyone but ourselves.

Me too, I'm not pro-prop 8 and I'm not anti-prop 8, I don't even like the idea of voting for prop-8.
When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Interesting thread, Rick!!!

[Tito]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

[stevew2]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

[Tito]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

[Voyager]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

You two should have your own radio talk show together. I would tune in every day - it would be hilarious!

[stevew2]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

id get off my ass, go the fridge, grab a Snickers, and a glass of whole milk, and rethink that retarded statement

[Rhiannon]

At least I'm perfect though.

id get off my ass, go the fridge, grab a Snickers, and a glass of whole milk, and rethink that retarded statement

[Michigan Girl]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

You're perfectionnez......you make me laugh {if you know what I mean}

[stevew2]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

You two should have your own radio talk show together. I would tune in every day - it would be hilarious!

When I meet that fucker, we are packin up the shitty GM product he drives and we are hitting the road.Ill have a pack of cigs, he ll have a half tank of gas, the rest will be history

[stevew2]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

You're perfectionnez......you make me laugh {if you know what I mean}

you speaking French again??/ Boinggggggg

[stevew2]

At least I'm perfect though.

id get off my ass, go the fridge, grab a Snickers, and a glass of whole milk, and rethink that retarded statement

you look wicked

[Rhiannon]

you look wicked

Is that a good thing?

[Michigan Girl]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

You're perfectionnez......you make me laugh {if you know what I mean}

you speaking French again??/ Boinggggggg

lol, Stevie.............

[stevew2]

you look wicked

Is that a good thing?

hell yea

[stevew2]

When I'm a perfect human living by every word in the book, I'll get back to you on this.
As for now, I'm under the impression that it is not my place to judge.

Well, fortunately I AM a perfect human being so I can judge.

you are a perfect prick

At least I'm perfect though.

You're perfectionnez......you make me laugh {if you know what I mean}

you speaking French again??/ Boinggggggg

lol, Stevie.............

Tito has one of them in his shitty GM product

[Michigan Girl]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I mostly stayed out of it. That's why.

Sure, which shows restraint, which shows character.

Good to see, I'm proud, Tito!!!

[stevew2]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I mostly stayed out of it. That's why.

Sure, which shows restraint, which shows character.

Good to see, I'm proud, Tito!!!

If he dosent get the pict of Friga off his sig, ,Im going to throw up,Im try to eat breackfast for petes sake

[Tito]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I mostly stayed out of it. That's why.

Sure, which shows restraint, which shows character.

Good to see, I'm proud, Tito!!!

If he dosent get the pict of Friga off his sig, ,Im going to throw up,Im try to eat breackfast for petes sake

You got at least 4 more years of it.

[stevew2]

The poll is very telling. It is a huge surprise to me as it is far more conservative than I had imagined. The fact that we've been able to discuss this topic, this far, without it breaking into something hateful and ugly, says a lot about the character of the people of MR.

I mostly stayed out of it. That's why.

Sure, which shows restraint, which shows character.

Good to see, I'm proud, Tito!!!

If he dosent get the pict of Friga off his sig, ,Im going to throw up,Im try to eat breackfast for petes sake

You got at least 4 more years of it.

Fuck You, will you marry me? You can you that shit in CT. what a fucked up state

[AlteredDNA]

http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacra ... t=pn_pn_lk

California Musical Theatre director steps down

Scott Eckern, artistic director of the California Musical Theatre, is resigning his post and leaving the organization.

A boycott of the theater was called Tuesday by some in the national arts community when news broke that Eckern contributed $1,000 to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign, which supported the ban on gay marriage.

The measure passed last week.

Scott Eckern said in a prepared release that he chose to express his view through the democratic process, and he was deeply sorry for any harm or injury he cause by doing so.

“I am leaving California Musical Theatre after prayerful consideration to protect the organization and to help the healing in the local theatre-going and creative community,” he said. “I am disappointed that my personal convictions have cost me the opportunity to do what I love the most.”

The board of directors of the California Musical Theatre on Tuesday morning set an emergency meeting for Tuesday afternoon and then later canceled it. The theater company and its board of directors were trying to find a way to react to a boycott called against its theater operations by gay and lesbian artists.

Eckern, a 25-year veteran of the theater company, took over as artistic director in 2002 following the retirement of Leland Ball. Eckern was also the company’s chief operating officer.

Any political contribution of $1,000 or more requires the donor declare home city and occupation.

The Web site antigayblacklist.com published a list based on data by electiontrack.com of anyone who contributed more than $1,000 to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign. That disclosure led to a surge of calls for a boycott on the theater company, which puts on Music Circus shows, presents the Broadway Series at the Community Center Theatre and is just launching the musical show "Forever Plaid" at the new K Street performing arts venue Cosmopolitan Cabaret.

“I understand that my choice of supporting Proposition 8 has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal. It was not my intent. I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction. I chose to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved,” he said in his statement. “I support each individual to have rights and access and I understood that in California domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage. My sister is a lesbian and in a committed domestic partnership relationship. I am loving and supportive of her and her family, and she is loving and supportive of me and my family.”

He goes on to say this is “a highly emotional issue and the accusations that have been made against me are simply not true. I have now had many conversations with friends and colleagues, and I am deeply saddened that my personal beliefs and convictions have offended others. My choice to support the proposition was personal, and does not represent the views and opinions of California Musical Theatre or the many people associated with the organization.”

The theater company's board of directors released a statement about Eckern's resignation: "California Musical Theatre is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated only to the mission of providing quality theatrical productions. At no time does it involve itself in political issues or ever impinge on the rights of its employees to engage in political activities of their choice. The biews and opinions of its employees do not necessarily represent those of California Musical Theatre."

The board said it appreciated Eckern's years of service.

[Arkansas]

You said "We no longer live under the law of Moses" and "We are still following the ten commandments". Who are you referring to when you say "we"? That's the problem with religion. It acts as if "we" should all follow your religious laws. I think you should replace the word "we" with "I". Follow your own religious rules, but don't force them on others. Why should you care what gay people do? Does it threaten your holiness? Does it make your god less powerful? Does it threaten your sexuality? If not, then feel free to live however you want to - but don't impose it on others. The USA is not ruled by the Bible. We have a constitution that is supposed to treat all people equally. Trying to force people you don't even know to live by the Bible is a violation of church and state... and I believe this silly Proposition 8 will eventually be overturned when lawmakers realize that the Bible is not the U.S. Constitution.

I am not gay (I'm married with two kids), but I believe in equal rights for all human beings. We have no right to impose our religious morals on anyone but ourselves.

I agree with you 99%. The 1% that throws me off is your implying that ALL who voted for Prop8 did so because of the Bible.

Lawmakers should neither make laws based on the Bible, nor should they throw out laws because of the Bible. The people should vote. And I guarantee you, not everyone who voted for Prop8 is a Bible-thumper.


later~

[Tito]

http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2008/11/10/daily40.html?jst=pn_pn_lk

California Musical Theatre director steps down

Scott Eckern, artistic director of the California Musical Theatre, is resigning his post and leaving the organization.

A boycott of the theater was called Tuesday by some in the national arts community when news broke that Eckern contributed $1,000 to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign, which supported the ban on gay marriage.

The measure passed last week.

Scott Eckern said in a prepared release that he chose to express his view through the democratic process, and he was deeply sorry for any harm or injury he cause by doing so.

“I am leaving California Musical Theatre after prayerful consideration to protect the organization and to help the healing in the local theatre-going and creative community,” he said. “I am disappointed that my personal convictions have cost me the opportunity to do what I love the most.”

The board of directors of the California Musical Theatre on Tuesday morning set an emergency meeting for Tuesday afternoon and then later canceled it. The theater company and its board of directors were trying to find a way to react to a boycott called against its theater operations by gay and lesbian artists.

Eckern, a 25-year veteran of the theater company, took over as artistic director in 2002 following the retirement of Leland Ball. Eckern was also the company’s chief operating officer.

Any political contribution of $1,000 or more requires the donor declare home city and occupation.

The Web site antigayblacklist.com published a list based on data by electiontrack.com of anyone who contributed more than $1,000 to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign. That disclosure led to a surge of calls for a boycott on the theater company, which puts on Music Circus shows, presents the Broadway Series at the Community Center Theatre and is just launching the musical show "Forever Plaid" at the new K Street performing arts venue Cosmopolitan Cabaret.

“I understand that my choice of supporting Proposition 8 has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal. It was not my intent. I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction. I chose to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved,” he said in his statement. “I support each individual to have rights and access and I understood that in California domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage. My sister is a lesbian and in a committed domestic partnership relationship. I am loving and supportive of her and her family, and she is loving and supportive of me and my family.”

He goes on to say this is “a highly emotional issue and the accusations that have been made against me are simply not true. I have now had many conversations with friends and colleagues, and I am deeply saddened that my personal beliefs and convictions have offended others. My choice to support the proposition was personal, and does not represent the views and opinions of California Musical Theatre or the many people associated with the organization.”

The theater company's board of directors released a statement about Eckern's resignation: "California Musical Theatre is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated only to the mission of providing quality theatrical productions. At no time does it involve itself in political issues or ever impinge on the rights of its employees to engage in political activities of their choice. The biews and opinions of its employees do not necessarily represent those of California Musical Theatre."

The board said it appreciated Eckern's years of service.

so much for free speech.

[Saint John]

Man, a lot of fags are really taking this defeat way too seriously. The people have spoken. Deal with it. Better yet, try and get the proper votes needed, and try again instead of pouting.

[conversationpc]

You said "We no longer live under the law of Moses" and "We are still following the ten commandments". Who are you referring to when you say "we"? That's the problem with religion. It acts as if "we" should all follow your religious laws. I think you should replace the word "we" with "I". Follow your own religious rules, but don't force them on others. Why should you care what gay people do? Does it threaten your holiness? Does it make your god less powerful? Does it threaten your sexuality? If not, then feel free to live however you want to - but don't impose it on others. The USA is not ruled by the Bible. We have a constitution that is supposed to treat all people equally. Trying to force people you don't even know to live by the Bible is a violation of church and state... and I believe this silly Proposition 8 will eventually be overturned when lawmakers realize that the Bible is not the U.S. Constitution.

I am not gay (I'm married with two kids), but I believe in equal rights for all human beings. We have no right to impose our religious morals on anyone but ourselves.

I agree with you 99%. The 1% that throws me off is your implying that ALL who voted for Prop8 did so because of the Bible.

Lawmakers should neither make laws based on the Bible, nor should they throw out laws because of the Bible. The people should vote. And I guarantee you, not everyone who voted for Prop8 is a Bible-thumper.


later~

The U.S. Consititution does not prohibit voters from voting based on Biblical principles. They may do so if they so desire.

[Voyager]

You said "We no longer live under the law of Moses" and "We are still following the ten commandments". Who are you referring to when you say "we"? That's the problem with religion. It acts as if "we" should all follow your religious laws. I think you should replace the word "we" with "I". Follow your own religious rules, but don't force them on others. Why should you care what gay people do? Does it threaten your holiness? Does it make your god less powerful? Does it threaten your sexuality? If not, then feel free to live however you want to - but don't impose it on others. The USA is not ruled by the Bible. We have a constitution that is supposed to treat all people equally. Trying to force people you don't even know to live by the Bible is a violation of church and state... and I believe this silly Proposition 8 will eventually be overturned when lawmakers realize that the Bible is not the U.S. Constitution.

I am not gay (I'm married with two kids), but I believe in equal rights for all human beings. We have no right to impose our religious morals on anyone but ourselves.

I agree with you 99%. The 1% that throws me off is your implying that ALL who voted for Prop8 did so because of the Bible.

Lawmakers should neither make laws based on the Bible, nor should they throw out laws because of the Bible. The people should vote. And I guarantee you, not everyone who voted for Prop8 is a Bible-thumper.


later~

The U.S. Consititution does not prohibit voters from voting based on Biblical principles. They may do so if they so desire.

Really? The Bible talks about how we should treat slaves. Can we vote about that?

[conversationpc]

The U.S. Consititution does not prohibit voters from voting based on Biblical principles. They may do so if they so desire.

Really? The Bible talks about how we should treat slaves. Can we vote about that?

The Bible never says that it's a good thing to own slaves. If you really think that, you are an idiot. The Bible also speaks of many Biblical characters being married to several women. However, it also says that a man SHOULD only be married to one. Big difference.

Anyway, please prove to me that it's unlawful for a citizen to vote based on their Christian principles. You can't do it. The Constitution says that government cannot establish religion. It doesn't say voters cannot determine their stands on issues based on their religion.