Nobody Can Fuck With Journey, EVER!

[conversationpc]

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

Dude, you're going to get skewered and bbqed on your own board for saying something like that.....even though I will not discredit your opinion, because I think it has some merit...

I'm a trouble maker...

Damn, I missed you saying that Andrew! I like Survivor but no way-NO WAY-do they stack up against Journey in any way, shape, form or fashion my good man.

Yeah...I've come to appreciate a good bit of Survivor's back catalogue, prior to Jamison, and really like a lot of it but you just can't compare it to Journey's at all.

[S2M]

Say it out loud................Journey is the baddest, most musical, most versatile band of all fuckin' time!!!!!!!

Yep!! .... Journey, ........BEST BAND EVER!!!!!!

I'm sure the people on the David Archuletta boards are saying the same thing......

Geeeeez ....... Just my opinion.

Don't take offense....I merely forgot an emoticon. I'm not THAT rude.....

[Rip Rokken]

Hey, its better than hanging on the Betty Rubble ones.....

You been spying on me? LOL!

I do have to confess... the site is called MelodicBedrock

[S2M]

Hey, its better than hanging on the Betty Rubble ones.....

You been spying on me? LOL!

I do have to confess... the site is called MelodicBedrock

Are you Mr. Slate.....or more the Joe Rockhead type?

[Rip Rokken]

Are you Mr. Slate.....or more the Joe Rockhead type?

Don Dokkhead....

[Tito]

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

Dude, you're going to get skewered and bbqed on your own board for saying something like that.....even though I will not discredit your opinion, because I think it has some merit...

I'm a trouble maker...

Just don't rip on JSS and you won't get banned.

[Brigadier]

Say it out loud................Journey is the baddest, most musical, most versatile band of all fuckin' time!!!!!!!

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

I'll see your Journey and Survivor, and raise you a Rush.............




.....and maybe even a Kansas.

[madsplash]

Say it out loud................Journey is the baddest, most musical, most versatile band of all fuckin' time!!!!!!!

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

I'll see your Journey and Survivor, and raise you a Rush.............




.....and maybe even a Kansas.

Let me hear a power ballad from either of those bands. Or a samba from Geddy and Rush or some Reggae from Kansas.

There goes your point. Get it out.

[Brigadier]

Say it out loud................Journey is the baddest, most musical, most versatile band of all fuckin' time!!!!!!!

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

I'll see your Journey and Survivor, and raise you a Rush.............




.....and maybe even a Kansas.

Let me hear a power ballad from either of those bands. Or a samba from Geddy and Rush or some Reggae from Kansas.

There goes your point. Get it out.

Kansas - All I Wanted. There is your power ballad. That is only a requirement to be a super group in Frisco - the gay bay.

As for Samba or Reggae - who gives a shit. That's shit music anyway. The worst 2 songs Journey ever did were their sorry ass attempts at Samba and Reggae. Like clint Eastwood says: "A man's gotta know his limitations."

Show me a Journey or Survivor that has had the same line up since 1975!!! You can't! See ya.

[MarcelJordan]

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

Dude, you're going to get skewered and bbqed on your own board for saying something like that.....even though I will not discredit your opinion, because I think it has some merit...

I'm a trouble maker...

Damn, I missed you saying that Andrew! I like Survivor but no way-NO WAY-do they stack up against Journey in any way, shape, form or fashion my good man.

Yeah...I've come to appreciate a good bit of Survivor's back catalogue, prior to Jamison, and really like a lot of it but you just can't compare it to Journey's at all.

That's a good place to start; Pre-Jamison. Which albums are your picks CP?

[Rick]

Say it out loud................Journey is the baddest, most musical, most versatile band of all fuckin' time!!!!!!!

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

I'll see your Journey and Survivor, and raise you a Rush.............




.....and maybe even a Kansas.

Let me hear a power ballad from either of those bands. Or a samba from Geddy and Rush or some Reggae from Kansas.

There goes your point. Get it out.

Kansas - All I Wanted. There is your power ballad. That is only a requirement to be a super group in Frisco - the gay bay.

As for Samba or Reggae - who gives a shit. That's shit music anyway. The worst 2 songs Journey ever did were their sorry ass attempts at Samba and Reggae. Like clint Eastwood says: "A man's gotta know his limitations."

Show me a Journey or Survivor that has had the same line up since 1975!!! You can't! See ya.

Kansas is a good band, but their catalog isn't nearly as strong as Journey's. I believe they swapped out an Elephante and Walsh somewhere in the 80's if I'm not mistaken. You are correct about Rush, they've been the same band since 74, but they went through numerous personnel changes before that. I do like Rush, but Geddy's voice is like nails on a chalkboard at times and isn't as good as any singer Journey or Survivor or Foreigner or even Queen has had. For me, Rush's shining star is Neal Peart. I could watch him for hours. He's a great, great lyricist and a phenom behind the kit. I'd put Neal Schon head and shoulders above Alex Lifeson. Alex is a good rock guitarist, however. Geddy is a good bass player if he can keep the stinkin thing out of the lead.

[kgdjpubs]

Yeah...I've come to appreciate a good bit of Survivor's back catalogue, prior to Jamison, and really like a lot of it but you just can't compare it to Journey's at all.

That's a good place to start; Pre-Jamison. Which albums are your picks CP?

Easy...Premonition. Especially the Japanese version with the full version of Summer Nights--as opposed to the butchered, cut and skewered version that is normally found.

Ranking Bickler era
1. Premonition...hard rock, partial ballad, mid-tempo
2. Eye of the Tiger...good album once you get past the title track which really has little to do with the rest of the album
3. Caught in the Game...not a bad album, but not very commercial
4. Survivor...band trying to find it's feet. Not much in common with later albums.

Note for the uninitiated...Bickler-era Survivor does NOT sound like Jamison-era Survivor. Writing team was the same, but you are looking at guitar-driven songwriting instead of keyboard-driven songwriting, which is a much tougher, edgier sound.

[kgdjpubs]

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

If I were to say that I'd be tared and feathered on here.


Here's how I'd compare the 2 bands...

I'm only comparing Journey's Escape line-up with Survivor's Eye Of The Tiger & Vital Signs line-up's

Lead vocals: Jimi Jamison vs Steve Perry...slight edge to Jamison.
Perry vs Bickler...edge to Perry...although Bickler was/is better than a lot of people seem to realize.

Guitar: Neal Schon vs Frankie Sullivan...edge goes to Schon for soloing...riffs and rhythm-playing go to Sullivan.

Keyboards: Jonathan Cain vs Jim Peterik...edge to Cain.

Drums: Steve Smith vs Marc Droubay...in terms of technical ability, Smith easily wins, but there are some aspects of Droubay's drumming that I like better.

Bass: Ross Valory vs Stephan Ellis...slight edge to Valory.

Songwriting: Jim Peterik and Frankie Sullivan vs Jonathan Cain and Steve Perry....slight edge to Peterik and Sullivan.

Overall: In my opinion they rank pretty much even. Neither one is far better than the other.

my humble opinion on the situation... For this, I'm going to limit both bands' output through the end of the 80s not counting any reunion (or variation) material made in the 90s or 2000s.

Honestly, Survivor vs Foreigner is the better comparison as opposed to Survivor vs Journey. Both were heavier-edged bands, with some mid-tempo and ballads....as opposed to Journey which was mid-tempo with some hard rock and ballads. Journey was also a much more layered sound, as opposed to Survivor/Foreigner, which were more straight-ahead rock. But for the basis of this debate...

Journey ranks better on virtually all of the musical parts. As far as caliber of musicians, Journey wins this one easily.

As far as songwriting goes...

Journey -- I personally feel that a lot of the songwriting on the Rolie era is patchy. Some really good stuff, but some filler. Once Cain comes aboard, songwriting goes up (if less rock).

Survivor -- once you get past the first album (which is all over the place with little relation to the later Survivor sound), Survivor was very consistent from Premonition to Too Hot To Sleep. Wide varying ranges in style from hard rock to pop, but quality is about even across the board. Survivor's real strength was in the deep album cuts that never got played on the radio. If all I had to compare was Survivor's Greatest Hits vs Journey's Greatest Hits--this would NOT be a discussion.


in a little more depth...

Hard Rock....edge: Survivor. Journey has some good hard rock moments (Edge of the Blade, Separate Ways), but Survivor was in general a heavier band as long as Vital Signs (which may have been their lightest album) doesn't dominate the playlist.

Mid-Tempo....edge: Journey. Survivor has some really good stuff in this area (Desperate Dreams, Runway Lights, etc) but the mid-tempo song was where Perry got to shine.

Ballads....edge: Survivor. Never cared for Open Arms, but Journey has some good ballads (Faithfully, Why Can't This Night..., Happy to Give, etc). Some of the best of Survivor (Ever Since the World Began, Man Against the World, Across the Miles) is better. Perry was the better ballad singer, but for songwriting, Survivor wins this one.

Total Catalogue....this is probably the big difference. Some of Journey's best songs may be a little better than some of Survivor's best songs. That said, I think Survivor's album cuts are stronger than the majority of Journey's album cuts. I'll call this one a draw.

Promotion....Journey, no contest. This is one area where Survivor was failed miserably by management. Unless you have gone out to find Survivor's albums, all you have heard is 2 songs specifically written for Rocky (Eye of the Tiger and Burning Heart), possibly Is This Love (from When Seconds Count), and a bunch of cuts from Vital Signs (I Cant Hold Back, High On You, The Search Is Over, maybe Broken Promises). Basically, that means if all you hear is radio, then you have heard 1 album out of 8, and maybe a track or two. They never sounded the same from album to album, so there is a HUGE gap in style that most people never heard.
Journey's management was much better, and the Greatest Hits does a good job at covering Infinity to Raised on Radio.
Safe to say there was a huge difference from Lights/Wheel in the Sky to Don't Stop Believin'/Separate Ways to Girl Can't Help It/Be Good to Yourself. Same on the Survivor end. There is a big difference between Feels Like Love/Chevy Nights to I Can't Hold Back/High on You to Desperate Dreams/Didn't Know It Was Love/Burning Bridges.

Survivor vs. Foreigner is a much more apt comparison...but for Survivor vs Journey, I'll call it a draw. Both have their strong points, and both have their weaker points. It's just hard to compare, since if you take the overall discography for both bands, there was only a brief period where they sounded alike.

[lights1961]

how bout these

Rolling Stones Def Leppard, STYX, yeah Kansas, Zepplin...
Journey in the same breath though...

[Journey/Survivor]

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

If I were to say that I'd be tared and feathered on here.


Here's how I'd compare the 2 bands...

I'm only comparing Journey's Escape line-up with Survivor's Eye Of The Tiger & Vital Signs line-up's

Lead vocals: Jimi Jamison vs Steve Perry...slight edge to Jamison.
Perry vs Bickler...edge to Perry...although Bickler was/is better than a lot of people seem to realize.

Guitar: Neal Schon vs Frankie Sullivan...edge goes to Schon for soloing...riffs and rhythm-playing go to Sullivan.

Keyboards: Jonathan Cain vs Jim Peterik...edge to Cain.

Drums: Steve Smith vs Marc Droubay...in terms of technical ability, Smith easily wins, but there are some aspects of Droubay's drumming that I like better.

Bass: Ross Valory vs Stephan Ellis...slight edge to Valory.

Songwriting: Jim Peterik and Frankie Sullivan vs Jonathan Cain and Steve Perry....slight edge to Peterik and Sullivan.

Overall: In my opinion they rank pretty much even. Neither one is far better than the other.

my humble opinion on the situation... For this, I'm going to limit both bands' output through the end of the 80s not counting any reunion (or variation) material made in the 90s or 2000s.

Honestly, Survivor vs Foreigner is the better comparison as opposed to Survivor vs Journey. Both were heavier-edged bands, with some mid-tempo and ballads....as opposed to Journey which was mid-tempo with some hard rock and ballads. Journey was also a much more layered sound, as opposed to Survivor/Foreigner, which were more straight-ahead rock. But for the basis of this debate...

Journey ranks better on virtually all of the musical parts. As far as caliber of musicians, Journey wins this one easily.

As far as songwriting goes...

Journey -- I personally feel that a lot of the songwriting on the Rolie era is patchy. Some really good stuff, but some filler. Once Cain comes aboard, songwriting goes up (if less rock).

Survivor -- once you get past the first album (which is all over the place with little relation to the later Survivor sound), Survivor was very consistent from Premonition to Too Hot To Sleep. Wide varying ranges in style from hard rock to pop, but quality is about even across the board. Survivor's real strength was in the deep album cuts that never got played on the radio. If all I had to compare was Survivor's Greatest Hits vs Journey's Greatest Hits--this would NOT be a discussion.


in a little more depth...

Hard Rock....edge: Survivor. Journey has some good hard rock moments (Edge of the Blade, Separate Ways), but Survivor was in general a heavier band as long as Vital Signs (which may have been their lightest album) doesn't dominate the playlist.

Mid-Tempo....edge: Journey. Survivor has some really good stuff in this area (Desperate Dreams, Runway Lights, etc) but the mid-tempo song was where Perry got to shine.

Ballads....edge: Survivor. Never cared for Open Arms, but Journey has some good ballads (Faithfully, Why Can't This Night..., Happy to Give, etc). Some of the best of Survivor (Ever Since the World Began, Man Against the World, Across the Miles) is better. Perry was the better ballad singer, but for songwriting, Survivor wins this one.

Total Catalogue....this is probably the big difference. Some of Journey's best songs may be a little better than some of Survivor's best songs. That said, I think Survivor's album cuts are stronger than the majority of Journey's album cuts. I'll call this one a draw.

Promotion....Journey, no contest. This is one area where Survivor was failed miserably by management. Unless you have gone out to find Survivor's albums, all you have heard is 2 songs specifically written for Rock (Eye of the Tiger and Burning Heart), possibly Is This Love (from When Seconds Count), and a bunch of cuts from Vital Signs (I Cant Hold Back, High On You, The Search Is Over, maybe Broken Promises). Basically, that means if all you hear is radio, then you have heard 1 album out of 8, and maybe a track or two. They never sounded the same from album to album, so there is a HUGE gap in style that most people never heard.
Journey's management was much better, and the Greatest Hits does a good job at covering Infinity to Raised on Radio.
Safe to say there was a huge difference from Lights/Wheel in the Sky to Don't Stop Believin'/Separate Ways to Girl Can't Help It/Be Good to Yourself. Same on the Survivor end. There is a big difference between Feels Like Love/Chevy Nights to I Can't Hold Back/High on You to Desperate Dreams/Didn't Know It Was Love/Burning Bridges.

Survivor vs. Foreigner is a much more apt comparison...but for Survivor vs Journey, I'll call it a draw. Both have their strong points, and both have their weaker points. It's just hard to compare, since if you take the overall discography for both bands, there was only a brief period where they sounded alike.

I agree with much of what you said. But I would have to say that Jamison sings a better ballad than Perry. But Perry sings a better ballad than Bickler.

The unfortunate thing about comparing Journey and Survivor on a Journey forum is that not very many of the people debating about the 2 bands have heard all of the Survivor catalog on many different occasions. Something that I've said before, and I've seen Andrew say as well, is that there's less "filler" on Survivor albums than there is on Journey albums. If you take a Journey album and a Survivor album and compare them, the best songs on the Journey album may be every bit as good as the best songs on the Survivor album, but the Survivor album will be stronger beginning to end. Survivor's "worst songs" are generally going to be better than Journey's "worst songs."

The main edge's that I would give to Survivor over Journey would be...

Overall songwriting...

Jamison a slight edge on lead vocals over Perry....

Sullivan is a better riff and rhythm guitarist than Schon...

Droubay's drumming has a bigger and more authoritative and Rocking sound than Smith's does.
.....................................................................................................................................................................................

Journey's advantages are....

Schon is the greatest lead guitarist in Rock history...

Cain is a somewhat better keyboardist than Peterik..

Smith is the most technically skilled drummer ever...

Valory has a slight edge on bass over Ellis

[kgdjpubs]

I agree with much of what you said. But I would have to say that Jamison sings a better ballad than Perry. But Perry sings a better ballad than Bickler.

The unfortunate thing about comparing Journey and Survivor on a Journey forum is that not very many of the people debating about the 2 bands have heard all of the Survivor catalog on many different occasions. Something that I've said before, and I've seen Andrew say as well, is that there's less "filler" on Survivor albums than there is on Journey albums. If you take a Journey album and a Survivor album and compare them, the best songs on the Journey album may be every bit as good as the best songs on the Survivor album, but the Survivor album will be stronger beginning to end. Survivor's "worst songs" are generally going to be better than Journey's "worst songs."

Exactly. Not saying that Survivor doesn't have filler, as all bands do. I do think though that most of the Survivor albums from top to bottom are stronger than most of the Journey cds.

The main edge's that I would give to Survivor over Journey would be...

Overall songwriting...

Jamison a slight edge on lead vocals over Perry....

I'll still give Perry an edge here. This is in the end going to come down to whether you prefer the Sam Cooke gospel-influenced vocals (Perry) or a blues Memphis style (Jamison). I fall firmly in the former category, as I think Perry's phrasing is second only to Sam Cooke in those vocalists that I have heard. That said, Jamison's vocals on Man Against the World and Across the Miles are simply sublime. Jamison is better than Bickler on ballads, though I'll take Bickler's version of Ever Since the World Began over JJ mainly because Jamison was literally on the edge of his range on that song, and Bickler wasn't straining nearly as bad.

Sullivan is a better riff and rhythm guitarist than Schon...

Schon did some good rhythm/riff work on the Hardline cd, but there really wasn't as much of a place for him to do that in Journey. A lot of Journey was vocals/melodies first, then keyboards, then guitars. Survivor (at least other than VS/When Seconds Count) was a bit more guitar-driven as far as songwriting melody went. You are somewhat comparing apples and oranges here. I'm sure it frustrates Neal Schon, but Journey never really used his talents to their full extent.

Droubay's drumming has a bigger and more authoritative and Rocking sound than Smith's does.

Droubay is more of a pure rock drummer, as opposed to Smith's jazz base. In the end, that will simply be a personal preference as to what helps the song. Journey doesn't really have a pure guitar riff-driven song for Smith to demonstrate the rock drumming. There are some songs where Droubay sounds good (especially Bickler era), and some where a more technical drummer may have helped.

Cain is a somewhat better keyboardist than Peterik..

Apparently, Peterik did NOT lay down keyboards on the Survivor cds (though may well have written the keyboard parts), so his keyboard skills are probably somewhat in question. I'll still give Cain the edge here.

[Andrew]

Apparently, Peterik did NOT lay down keyboards on the Survivor cds (though may well have written the keyboard parts), so his keyboard skills are probably somewhat in question. I'll still give Cain the edge here.

Where did you hear that baloney?

I have sat in Jim's living room and have watched him tinkle the ivory with finesse few could match. And he's a killer guitar player too.

[Vladan]

Jamison a slight edge on lead vocals over Perry....

Are you serious, I have never ever seen anybody ever say that ever. I'd be interested to know you would make such a claim and why you would give the edge to Jamison. Even Andrew was puzzled, I'm sure Jimmy would be puzzled as well Because I've never seen Jamison being regarded as the voice, in fact Jamison is under rated in my opinion.

[Journey/Survivor]

There were occasionally guest keyboardists that performed on a song with Survivor. But Peterik handled the overwhelming majority of the keys.

I know that Daryl Dragon played some of the keys on "Jackie Don't Go." And Peter Wolf did some of the synth on the Vital Signs album, particularly on "The Search Is Over."

Dave Bickler was the keyboardist on the first album, but only the first album.

[Journey/Survivor]

Jamison a slight edge on lead vocals over Perry....

/quote]

Are you serious, I have never ever seen anybody ever say that ever. I'd be interested to know you would make such a claim. Even Andrew was puzzled, I'm sure Jimmy would be puzzled as well

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you and I have discussed that in the past.

I've said this several times before, but I'll say it again...

Steve Perry has the most amazing voice, but Jimi Jamison has the best voice.

What I mean by that is that Steve Perry can hit these unbelievably high notes that virtually no other man can hit, and he's amazing with that high range. But Jimi Jamison has the best sounding voice. Again, and this goes for every single one of us on this website, that is a matter of preference.

There are people who would tell all of us that both Steve Perry and Jimi Jamison suck as singers. They'd be wrong! But it would still be their opinion.

But believe it or not, I do know a lot of people who feel that Jamison is a better singer than Perry. I consider them to be almost equally great singers, but I know some people who think that it's not even close, that Jamison is a far better singer.

A good friend of mine that is a singer (and who's own singing voice is a lot like Perry's) feels that Jamison is a much better singer.

And there's a member of this websites forums that has said that he prefers a male singer to sound like a male singer, and that's why he prefers Jamison over Perry.

I just feel that Jamison has more "soul" to his voice and vocal delivery than Perry. Not by much, but a little bit anyway.

[Journey/Survivor]

A few quick facts about Jimi Jamison's singing career that most of you are probably not aware of...

Elvis invited Jamison to Graceland because he had become a fan of Jamison's singing.

Jamison was being hired to sing backing vocals on other peoples albums at the age of 15.

Jamison is known as "The fourth member of ZZ Top" because of all of the backing vocals they have hired him to do on their albums over many years, and including their biggest albums.

Casey Kasem has named Jimi Jamison one of the top 10 greatest Rock vocalists of all time.

Jamison was originally the choice to play the role of Jim Morrison in the movie "The Doors," mostly because of his incredible ability to sound like Morrison. Unfortunately, the filming plans were put on hold for several years, and when they decided to make the movie after all they decided to go with Val Kilmer because of his acting experience.

[MarcelJordan]

A few quick facts about Jimi Jamison's singing career that most of you are probably not aware of...

Elvis invited Jamison to Graceland because he had become a fan of Jamison's singing.

Jamison was being hired to sing backing vocals on other peoples albums at the age of 15.

Jamison is known as "The fourth member of ZZ Top" because of all of the backing vocals they have hired him to do on their albums over many years, and including their biggest albums.

Casey Kasem has named Jimi Jamison one of the top 10 greatest Rock vocalists of all time.

Jamison was originally the choice to play the role of Jim Morrison in the movie "The Doors," mostly because of his incredible ability to sound like Morrison. Unfortunately, the filming plans were put on hold for several years, and when they decided to make the movie after all they decided to go with Val Kilmer because of his acting experience.

Didn't know that the Jim Morrison story.

Its a shame, that neither Perry not JJ received a Grammy while in their respective bands despite their pedigree. But that said, Dave Bickler did. And that too in the category Duo or Group with Vocals. And there was only ONE vocalist on Tiger (no background vocals for support).

[Journey/Survivor]

A few quick facts about Jimi Jamison's singing career that most of you are probably not aware of...

Elvis invited Jamison to Graceland because he had become a fan of Jamison's singing.

Jamison was being hired to sing backing vocals on other peoples albums at the age of 15.

Jamison is known as "The fourth member of ZZ Top" because of all of the backing vocals they have hired him to do on their albums over many years, and including their biggest albums.

Casey Kasem has named Jimi Jamison one of the top 10 greatest Rock vocalists of all time.

Jamison was originally the choice to play the role of Jim Morrison in the movie "The Doors," mostly because of his incredible ability to sound like Morrison. Unfortunately, the filming plans were put on hold for several years, and when they decided to make the movie after all they decided to go with Val Kilmer because of his acting experience.

Didn't know that the Jim Morrison story.

Its a shame, that neither Perry not JJ received a Grammy while in their respective bands despite their pedigree. But that said, Dave Bickler did. And that too in the category Duo or Group with Vocals. And there was only ONE vocalist on Tiger (no background vocals for support).

I love Dave's singing, he's very underrated. I don't consider him to be as good of a ballad singer as Jamison, but he can Rock for sure. A ballad that I think Dave sounded great on though is "Innocence Of Love."

[Vladan]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you and I have discussed that in the past.

I've said this several times before, but I'll say it again...

Steve Perry has the most amazing voice, but Jimi Jamison has the best voice.

What I mean by that is that Steve Perry can hit these unbelievably high notes that virtually no other man can hit, and he's amazing with that high range. But Jimi Jamison has the best sounding voice. Again, and this goes for every single one of us on this website, that is a matter of preference.

There are people who would tell all of us that both Steve Perry and Jimi Jamison suck as singers. They'd be wrong! But it would still be their opinion.

But believe it or not, I do know a lot of people who feel that Jamison is a better singer than Perry. I consider them to be almost equally great singers, but I know some people who think that it's not even close, that Jamison is a far better singer.

A good friend of mine that is a singer (and who's own singing voice is a lot like Perry's) feels that Jamison is a much better singer.

And there's a member of this websites forums that has said that he prefers a male singer to sound like a male singer, and that's why he prefers Jamison over Perry.

I just feel that Jamison has more "soul" to his voice and vocal delivery than Perry. Not by much, but a little bit anyway.

Interesting. I think "preference" can only take you so far. We need to start looking at what the masses say. For a little research, you will hear singers back in the day compliment Steve Perry and literally call him the voice, this is coming from guys like Jon Bon Jovi who is probably one the most famous and currently successful artists ever, even bigger than Journey/Survivor rolled together. Yo tube comments, you look at them all, Perry this Perry that, there really isn't much said about Jamison, which again I feel he is under rated, but also start to think about the range and diversity of the songs, I like Jamison he is outstanding in the studio, perfect tone all the good stuff for a commercial sound, but LIVE on the other hand he was OK, didn't give as much as Perry did.

Reality, will find the majority of professional singers and fans will consider Steve Perry in another league. You see Jimmy Jamison is considered "one of the best 10 ten" to some, the minority. But! Steve Perry is either considered one of "If not" the best of all time, that is something nobody gets to say.

You can say you prefer Jimmy Jamison to Steve Perry, that is fine, like I can say I prefer John Farnham to Steve Perry - but neither is better! it's that simple, because they are our favourites, it doesn't make them better.

[kgdjpubs]

Apparently, Peterik did NOT lay down keyboards on the Survivor cds (though may well have written the keyboard parts), so his keyboard skills are probably somewhat in question. I'll still give Cain the edge here.

Where did you hear that baloney?

I have sat in Jim's living room and have watched him tinkle the ivory with finesse few could match. And he's a killer guitar player too.

The comment was based on a comment over on the Survivor board that some other people did some keyboards for Survivor--and I believe the comment was more regarding the WSC album. If you say Peterik did virtually everything, then I'll stand corrected.

The specific point that I was making was on the complexity of the keyboard parts so as to compare. Peterik obviously could play the stuff live, but there's really no reason to lay down extravagant keyboard parts on Journey or Survivor. Unlike Journey, there isn't a boatload of Survivor live recordings, and even less with a keyboard solo. In the end, it's pretty subjective as to who is a "better" keyboard player, and then there is the feel vs. technical skills debate.

[stevew2]

I always felt that Survivor's catalogue stacked up against Journey's very well - if not even better!

Dude, you're going to get skewered and bbqed on your own board for saying something like that.....even though I will not discredit your opinion, because I think it has some merit...

I'm a trouble maker...

Just don't rip on JSS and you won't get banned.

You got learned real,,,,,,,,,,, good didnt ya boy

[Tito]

Jamison a slight edge on lead vocals over Perry....

Are you serious, I have never ever seen anybody ever say that ever. I'd be interested to know you would make such a claim and why you would give the edge to Jamison. Even Andrew was puzzled, I'm sure Jimmy would be puzzled as well Because I've never seen Jamison being regarded as the voice, in fact Jamison is under rated in my opinion.

Didn't Casey Kasim call him one of the best voices he's ever heard?

[stevew2]

Jamison a slight edge on lead vocals over Perry....

Are you serious, I have never ever seen anybody ever say that ever. I'd be interested to know you would make such a claim and why you would give the edge to Jamison. Even Andrew was puzzled, I'm sure Jimmy would be puzzled as well Because I've never seen Jamison being regarded as the voice, in fact Jamison is under rated in my opinion.

Didn't Casey Kasim call him one of the best voices he's ever heard?

i thought Jamison was a porn star

[Tito]

Yeah...I've come to appreciate a good bit of Survivor's back catalogue, prior to Jamison, and really like a lot of it but you just can't compare it to Journey's at all.

That's a good place to start; Pre-Jamison. Which albums are your picks CP?

Easy...Premonition. Especially the Japanese version with the full version of Summer Nights--as opposed to the butchered, cut and skewered version that is normally found.

Ranking Bickler era
1. Premonition...hard rock, partial ballad, mid-tempo
2. Eye of the Tiger...good album once you get past the title track which really has little to do with the rest of the album
3. Caught in the Game...not a bad album, but not very commercial
4. Survivor...band trying to find it's feet. Not much in common with later albums.

Note for the uninitiated...Bickler-era Survivor does NOT sound like Jamison-era Survivor. Writing team was the same, but you are looking at guitar-driven songwriting instead of keyboard-driven songwriting, which is a much tougher, edgier sound.

I like that first Survivor album...a lot! I actually think it's one of their better albums. During the Bichler era I would put it probably #2. Probably EOTT is #1 and Premonition is a very close #3. CITG is #4.

As far as filler that's tough to say. I would say Jouney- Infinity, Escape, and even probably ROR have no filler (maybe 1 song on ROR). I thought CITG had some filler. Frontiers had it stayed in its original form would have no filler but still has only a little.

I'll call it a draw on vocalist and perhaps bass although slight edge to Valory is more likely. Drums and guitars isn't even close. Keys isn't close either plus Cain played guitar on the albums and with the exception of Survivor's first album I don't think Peterik ever picked up a guitar again in Survivor. Actually, I think he does play guitar on COTN. Now, I think Peterik is a better guitar player than Cain but Peterik didn't really play in Survivor so Cain rolls over him here.

[Tito]

There were occasionally guest keyboardists that performed on a song with Survivor. But Peterik handled the overwhelming majority of the keys.

I know that Daryl Dragon played some of the keys on "Jackie Don't Go." And Peter Wolf did some of the synth on the Vital Signs album, particularly on "The Search Is Over."

Dave Bickler was the keyboardist on the first album, but only the first album.

You know what I did notice that there were a lot of guest keyboard,etc. players on their albums. I even started to wonder (WSC?) if Peterik even played on the album.