Should Sony Release the Original Tracks of Raised on Radio?

[Matthew]

As far as unreleased ROR stuff, I think this is all we have.

With A Tear with vocals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshSYwBcVS8

Wow..I haven't heard that before. Thanks JP...

[Rick]

And if there are tracks from Radio with Smith on them laying around, damn it, I WANT to hear them.

They're on the album. Positive Touch...Eyes of a Woman...and WCTNGF.....

Or am I missing the point here?

I know he drummed on those... my point was if there are tracks that were scrapped (as alluded to here) that are laying around some vault, or Perry's broom closet, I want to hear them.

Okay...see what you mean. I guess the question is...are they that different from the Londin tracks? I doubt it because Schon and Cain were using drum machines and new keyboard technology right at the start of the writing process and before Perry joined the project. Smith was never given an opportunity to demonstrate his virtuoso playing and that's partly why the early sessions went so badly.

So it's not as though Schon, Cain, Valory and Smith were playing in the traditional style until Perry came along and scrapped the recordings, as is often made out here.

What I'd love to hear are the various initial takes of Perry's vocals on - say - HTG, where by all accounts he was totally obsessed with getting it right. There must have been well over 30 alternate takes of that song alone. Also - Schon's solos are so perfectly honed on this record there must have been various alternate solos too before they settled on the final cut as it were.

I wouldn't doubt it a bit about Perry retaking that many times, but Schon was reputed to be a one take guy, back in those days anyway.

[JeremyP]

As far as unreleased ROR stuff, I think this is all we have.

With A Tear with vocals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshSYwBcVS8

Wow..I haven't heard that before. Thanks JP...

No prob, glad you enjoyed it.

[Matthew]

I wouldn't doubt it a bit about Perry retaking that many times, but Schon was reputed to be a one take guy, back in those days anyway.

I don't get the feeling that the solos were that spontaneous on ROR but who knows? Maybe on the earlier albums though....

I'm just struck by the difference between Schon's soloing with his work with Perry - economical, melodic, simple - to his work without Perry - expansive, complicated, showy. I've always assumed that Perry had a kind of editor's influence on Schons's playing, and that this influence was at its height during ROR.

[Rick]

I wouldn't doubt it a bit about Perry retaking that many times, but Schon was reputed to be a one take guy, back in those days anyway.

I don't get the feeling that the solos were that spontaneous on ROR but who knows? Maybe on the earlier albums though....

I'm just struck by the difference between Schon's soloing with his work with Perry - economical, melodic, simple - to his work without Perry - expansive, complicated, showy. I've always assumed that Perry had a kind of editor's influence on Schons's playing, and that this influence was at its height during ROR.

I'd have to agree with you on that. Even now he's less reserved in his soloing.

I did read that when they were doing Revelation, it said that Schon, the usual one solo and done guy was doing retakes at Shirley's request.

[Don]

I think when there was debate about cutting the outro on "Who's Crying Now" so it would be more radio friendly, the band hit a turning point and started gradually to go away from the jam session type of guitar work that they had been doing previously.

[Matthew]

I think when there was debate about cutting the outro on "Who's Crying Now" so it would be more radio friendly, the band hit a turning point and started gradually to go away from the jam session type of guitar work that they had been doing previously.

But they decided to keep it and showed a lot of nerve in the process. In fact...the WCN solo is more of a jam than any song I can think of on the previous three albums...but maybe I'm forgetting something obvious here.

[Don]

I think when there was debate about cutting the outro on "Who's Crying Now" so it would be more radio friendly, the band hit a turning point and started gradually to go away from the jam session type of guitar work that they had been doing previously.

But they decided to keep it and showed a lot of nerve in the process. In fact...the WCN solo is more of a jam than any song I can think of on the previous three albums...but maybe I'm forgetting something obvious here.

Yeah, from what I read, Steve really went to bat for Neal saying it needed to stay in. But I see that as turning point because after that, you never had a long killer solo like "Winds of March" or "People and Places". I thought the end of WCTNGOF was the perfect place to jam out, but the song just sort of drops dead at the end. The guitar outro for BGTY and a few others never really impressed me.

[Ehwmatt]

I think when there was debate about cutting the outro on "Who's Crying Now" so it would be more radio friendly, the band hit a turning point and started gradually to go away from the jam session type of guitar work that they had been doing previously.

But they decided to keep it and showed a lot of nerve in the process. In fact...the WCN solo is more of a jam than any song I can think of on the previous three albums...but maybe I'm forgetting something obvious here.

Yeah, from what I read, Steve really went to bat for Neal saying it needed to stay in. But I see that as turning point because after that, you never had a long killer solo like "Winds of March" or "People and Places". I thought the end of WCTNGOF was the perfect place to jam out, but the song just sort of drops dead at the end. The guitar outro for BGTY and a few others never really impressed me.

The BGTY outro rocks, especially live. I'm surprised you don't like it. WCTNGOF does end kinda strangely. It feels like there should be a bridge or even an extra verse somewhere in the song, if not an outro solo like you alluded to.

[bluejeangirl76]

I'm just struck by the difference between Schon's soloing with his work with Perry - economical, melodic, simple - to his work without Perry - expansive, complicated, showy.

Yeah, there's a difference. He worked better with Perry than after. He didn't need to be showy because together, they painted the picture. Before I'm misquoted though, I'm not saying that's his thought process behind playing differently, just that as I see it, there was never a need for complexity and grandeur because the job was getting done and it was a wonderful balance.

[Matthew]

I think when there was debate about cutting the outro on "Who's Crying Now" so it would be more radio friendly, the band hit a turning point and started gradually to go away from the jam session type of guitar work that they had been doing previously.

But they decided to keep it and showed a lot of nerve in the process. In fact...the WCN solo is more of a jam than any song I can think of on the previous three albums...but maybe I'm forgetting something obvious here.

Yeah, from what I read, Steve really went to bat for Neal saying it needed to stay in. But I see that as turning point because after that, you never had a long killer solo like "Winds of March" or "People and Places". I thought the end of WCTNGOF was the perfect place to jam out, but the song just sort of drops dead at the end. The guitar outro for BGTY and a few others never really impressed me.

The BGTY outro rocks, especially live. I'm surprised you don't like it. WCTNGOF does end kinda strangely. It feels like there should be a bridge or even an extra verse somewhere in the song, if not an outro solo like you alluded to.

Got to agree about BGTY...that solo is a song in itself...unbelievable performance.

[Matthew]

I'm just struck by the difference between Schon's soloing with his work with Perry - economical, melodic, simple - to his work without Perry - expansive, complicated, showy.

Yeah, there's a difference. He worked better with Perry than after. He didn't need to be showy because together, they painted the picture. Before I'm misquoted though, I'm not saying that's his thought process behind playing differently, just that as I see it, there was never a need for complexity and grandeur because the job was getting done and it was a wonderful balance.

Well put BJG...and much as I love some of the flashy stuff he's played on recent tours...you're right....there's this sense of him over-compensating.

[Matthew]

WCTNGOF does end kinda strangely. It feels like there should be a bridge or even an extra verse somewhere in the song, if not an outro solo like you alluded to.

Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Shame Deen wasn't quite up to the task of pulling off the vocal like he does on Mother, Father but overall it was a superior live version of a much under-rated track from ROR.

[Loneman1]

Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Seriously! That added solo was awesome. I wish they would do that one now with Arnel, I bet it would be great!

[Ehwmatt]

Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Seriously! That added solo was awesome. I wish they would do that one now with Arnel, I bet it would be great!

I had no idea they did this in 05... I'm gonna have to look for that.

For my money, one of Neal's best solos ever is I'll Be All Right Without You. The tone, the phrasing, the TASTEFUL use of speed, Perry's vocal nuances playing off of it.. so good.

[Loneman1]

Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Seriously! That added solo was awesome. I wish they would do that one now with Arnel, I bet it would be great!

I had no idea they did this in 05... I'm gonna have to look for that.

For my money, one of Neal's best solos ever is I'll Be All Right Without You. The tone, the phrasing, the TASTEFUL use of speed, Perry's vocal nuances playing off of it.. so good.

I think I have a decent quality boot on my computer that has it in the setlist.....gimme a minute and I'll see if its still on here someplace.....

[Loneman1]

Here it is - http://www.yousendit.com/download/TTZsS ... a1BIRGc9PQ (8 mb)

"Happy to Give", w/ Deeno on vocals

[Rick]

Here it is - http://www.yousendit.com/download/TTZsS ... a1BIRGc9PQ (8 mb)

"Happy to Give", w/ Deeno on vocals

He can get way up there. He did a great job on that. Loved the solo too.

Thanks E.

[Ehwmatt]

Thanks Eric, downloading now

[Loneman1]

No prob, I'm just not sure where that concert took place since my dumbass decided not to title it when I got it. It's from 6/30/04, and I THINK its in Ontario based on the quick Google search I did, but again I'm not positive. If anyone is interested, I can RAR the whole concert and upload it here, the setlist is pretty diverse from the norm, it features "Suzzane" and "Opened the Door" among other oddities.......

[Ehwmatt]

No prob, I'm just not sure where that concert took place since my dumbass decided not to title it when I got it. It's from 6/30/04, and I THINK its in Ontario based on the quick Google search I did, but again I'm not positive. If anyone is interested, I can RAR the whole concert and upload it here, the setlist is pretty diverse from the norm, it features "Suzzane" and "Opened the Door" among other oddities.......

I'd be VERY interested.

[Red13JoePa]

[ Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Shame Deen wasn't quite up to the task of pulling off the vocal like he does on Mother, Father but overall it was a superior live version of a much under-rated track from ROR.

I LOVE that Happy To Give from the DeTour (04). Had the guitars that were seriously truncated on ROR.

As for the album itSELF, don't mess w/ ROR it is (flawed) perfection as-is.

[Rick]

[ Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Shame Deen wasn't quite up to the task of pulling off the vocal like he does on Mother, Father but overall it was a superior live version of a much under-rated track from ROR.

I LOVE that Happy To Give from the DeTour (04). Had the guitars that were seriously truncated on ROR.

As for the album itSELF, don't mess w/ ROR it is (flawed) perfection as-is.

I've been giving it a lot of spins lately. As with every other Journey album, the more I listen to it, the more I like it.

[Ehwmatt]

[ Agree about this - but I think the real missed opportunity was the decision to have no solo at all at the end of Happy To Give. When Schon eventually did put a solo to it - on a 2005 tour, I think - it was one of his best moments in the last decade I reckon. And the solo was very much in the old melodic, simple style.

Shame Deen wasn't quite up to the task of pulling off the vocal like he does on Mother, Father but overall it was a superior live version of a much under-rated track from ROR.

I LOVE that Happy To Give from the DeTour (04). Had the guitars that were seriously truncated on ROR.

As for the album itSELF, don't mess w/ ROR it is (flawed) perfection as-is.

I've been giving it a lot of spins lately. As with every other Journey album, the more I listen to it, the more I like it.

I don't hear many mention It Could Have Been You too often on here. I LOVE that track. I love Neal's funky little riff throughout the song and the overall feel of the song.

[Red13JoePa]

I don't hear many mention It Could Have Been You too often on here. I LOVE that track. I love Neal's funky little riff throughout the song and the overall feel of the song.

Indeedio.
An awesome, awesome song and the riff is funky.
Some of what by all accounts was a pissed off Schon's most creative and diverse axework comes on ROR (probly in due part to perry the dick producer).

I remember a great description of the scene in the original, REAL Time3 liner notes (before they were watered down and candy coated for the re release):

Paraphrasing: "A frustrated Schon absented himself almost completely from the creative process, content instead to rip off his guitar gymnastics and leave it at that."

[bluejeangirl76]

I don't hear many mention It Could Have Been You too often on here. I LOVE that track.

ABSOLUTELY.
That is a killer song.

[S2M]

I don't hear many mention It Could Have Been You too often on here. I LOVE that track.

ABSOLUTELY.
That is a killer song.

That song is a snoozefest......

[Loneman1]

No prob, I'm just not sure where that concert took place since my dumbass decided not to title it when I got it. It's from 6/30/04, and I THINK its in Ontario based on the quick Google search I did, but again I'm not positive. If anyone is interested, I can RAR the whole concert and upload it here, the setlist is pretty diverse from the norm, it features "Suzzane" and "Opened the Door" among other oddities.......

I'd be VERY interested.

Cool.....uploading now. I'm gonna start a new thread for it shortly just in case anyone else outside of this thread wants it.

[Jana]

I don't hear many mention It Could Have Been You too often on here. I LOVE that track. I love Neal's funky little riff throughout the song and the overall feel of the song.

Indeedio.
An awesome, awesome song and the riff is funky.
Some of what by all accounts was a pissed off Schon's most creative and diverse axework comes on ROR (probly in due part to perry the dick producer).

I remember a great description of the scene in the original, REAL Time3 liner notes (before they were watered down and candy coated for the re release):

Paraphrasing: "A frustrated Schon absented himself almost completely from the creative process, content instead to rip off his guitar gymnastics and leave it at that."

I always love hearing all of these behind-the-scene little gems of information regarding the guys back in the day. Thanks.

[Red13JoePa]

For whatever tension it created, and perry himself looks back on it witha little regret in 2001's BTM ("I probably pushed some things to hard, but boy I had to have it"), I love the album that perry the producer got out of Journey that time.

God I hope NIG and NoMoreTails didn;t see that