OT - I've seen the 'next' Barry Sanders

[Tito]

and, I might add....Emmitt owns the record because Barry retired.....

I agree with that. But, that gets to my point about Payton playing in strike shortened seasons and three 14 game seasons. Had they played full 16 game seasons (at least in his first 3 years and 1982 when he was in his prime), you could add 1,500 yards to Payton's total. Plus, additional receiving yards.

[S2M]

Hell, I'd even take this guy over Walter....



Wouldn't want to be in front of this dude..... What a Nightmare!

[Enigma869]

Hell, I'd even take this guy over Walter....



Wouldn't want to be in front of this dude..... What a Nightmare!

Is that Okoye?

[Rockindeano]

His name is D'angelo Williams. I'm not saying he is Barry, but he is the closest thing I've seen to Barry since.....Barry.

I still haven't seen the next Walter Payton.

His sad, early death aside....Barry was better. Now go listen to your Cain songs....

I disagree.

Ok, Make your case........

I think Payton was overrated as well, BUT...he played on real grass, frozen grass and snow and ice. Sanders for at least 9 games a year, played on the rug. Much faster track, easier to cut and run.

I will take Barry over Walter.

[Tito]

Walter's offensive lines absolutely sucked until the mid-80's.

It doesn't change the fact that Sanders NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER had a decent offensive line!

I never said he did.

Walter was a more complete back

The question isn't who was "more complete". The question is which running back was better. A running back's primary job is to run with the football, and nobody did it better than Sanders!

Thanks for proving my point. Being more complete makes you better. Barry may (or may not) have been a better runner but Walter did it all.

Yes, and he still finished with just 11 fewer career rushing TD's than Payton not playing on the goal line and playing 3 fewer seasons! What's your point? Sorry Taco Boy...You're fighting an argument that can't be won. I don't know if any football historians who rank Payton ahead of Sanders. There is life outside of Chicago and just because a player played for your team doesn't make him better! Payton was a great back, and I'd take him over a lot of backs (including Emmitt Smith). He simply wasn't Barry Sanders. Hell, I'd even take Bo Jackson ahead of Payton and a lot of other guys for the brief time he was in the NFL.

His high TD totals ('89-'91) were mostly due to that spread out run and shoot offense they used. Again, they took him out on short yardage situations, Walter did not.

Obviously, you don't know many football historians because a lot of them say Walter is the best. Some even say he was the best football player period. I've rarely heard anyone say Barry was the best. Honestly, the one most people say is the best is Jim Brown.

You can take all of your other RBs, I'll take Walter and our Superbowl over your Patriots. Barry never lead his team to a Superbowl.

[Tito]

His name is D'angelo Williams. I'm not saying he is Barry, but he is the closest thing I've seen to Barry since.....Barry.

I still haven't seen the next Walter Payton.

His sad, early death aside....Barry was better. Now go listen to your Cain songs....

I disagree.

Ok, Make your case........

I think Payton was overrated as well, BUT...he played on real grass, frozen grass and snow and ice. Sanders for at least 9 games a year, played on the rug. Much faster track, easier to cut and run.

I will take Barry over Walter.

Welcome back.

[Tito]

Hell, I'd even take this guy over Walter....



Wouldn't want to be in front of this dude..... What a Nightmare!

You're going to take a flash in the pan over Walter?

[Don]

Hell, I'd even take this guy over Walter....



Wouldn't want to be in front of this dude..... What a Nightmare!

Is that Okoye?

Yep, and here's Steve Atwater saying hello to him

http://www.zippyvideos.com/6082761056532676/atwaterhit/

[Rockindeano]

Walter would run his 4 yards and out of bounds..never put his head down and drilled someone. God I hate that shit. Franco Harris was an even bigger pussy. 3 yds and out of bounds. Hell the REAL Chicago RB was Gale Sayers. That fucker actually looked for contact, as did Jim Brown. Bad guy, bad attitude, bad temper, great football back. As for LT, that fucker has hit the wall. He is average at best. Look for JohnRoxx to come flying in here at any moment looking for my head on a stake.

[S2M]

Hell, I'd even take this guy over Walter....



Wouldn't want to be in front of this dude..... What a Nightmare!

You're going to take a flash in the pan over Walter?

I'm not saying Christian is better than Walter, but I'd take him as my FB ANYDAY. Would kick Walter's ass on goalline situations.

and most people say Jim Brown is the best because he was the FIRST great back.....most of these people who spout off are ancient anyway, and they just HAVE to pick someone from THEIR era....

Hey, wait! Isn't that what we are doing?!

[Tito]

Walter would run his 4 yards and out of bounds..never put his head down and drilled someone. God I hate that shit. Franco Harris was an even bigger pussy. 3 yds and out of bounds. Hell the REAL Chicago RB was Gale Sayers. That fucker actually looked for contact, as did Jim Brown. Bad guy, bad attitude, bad temper, great football back. As for LT, that fucker has hit the wall. He is average at best. Look for JohnRoxx to come flying in here at any moment looking for my head on a stake.

You lost all of your credibility. Walter never ran out of bounds, that was Sanders if anybody. Walter took on tacklers.

[S2M]

Hell, I'd even take this guy over Walter....



Wouldn't want to be in front of this dude..... What a Nightmare!

Is that Okoye?

Yep, and here's Steve Atwater saying hello to him

http://www.zippyvideos.com/6082761056532676/atwaterhit/

Okoye lead with his head....only reason that looked that bad.....

Guarantee if Christian lead with a shoulder Atwater would be in the first row.

[Tito]

I'm not saying Christian is better than Walter, but I'd take him as my FB ANYDAY. Would kick Walter's ass on goalline situations.

Then why didn't he play for a long time? Marcus Allen dragged out his career by getting that 1 yard TD run for few years, with Kansas City no less. Okoye had one good year.

[Michigan Girl]

His name is D'angelo Williams. I'm not saying he is Barry, but he is the closest thing I've seen to Barry since.....Barry.

I still haven't seen the next Walter Payton.

His sad, early death aside....Barry was better. Now go listen to your Cain songs....

I disagree.

Ok, Make your case........

I think Payton was overrated as well, BUT...he played on real grass, frozen grass and snow and ice. Sanders for at least 9 games a year, played on the rug. Much faster track, easier to cut and run.

I will take Barry over Walter.

Deano's not usually right .....this makes him sound like a genius!!!

[S2M]

I'm not saying Christian is better than Walter, but I'd take him as my FB ANYDAY. Would kick Walter's ass on goalline situations.

Then why didn't he play for a long time? Marcus Allen dragged out his career by getting that 1 yard TD run for few years, with Kansas City no less. Okoye had one good year.

Why did Barry retire at the top of his game, one season from breaking Walter's record?

BTW, Barry never cared about records(obviously). In his rookie year he was 10 yards short of being the rushing champ. Wouldn't go back in the game to get the record because Lions had game in hand. Talk about CLASS.

[Michigan Girl]

I'm not saying Christian is better than Walter, but I'd take him as my FB ANYDAY. Would kick Walter's ass on goalline situations.

Then why didn't he play for a long time? Marcus Allen dragged out his career by getting that 1 yard TD run for few years, with Kansas City no less. Okoye had one good year.

Why did Barry retire at the top of his game, one season from breaking Walter's record?

BTW, Barry never cared about records(obviously). In his rookie year he was 10 yards short of being the rushing champ. Wouldn't go back in the game to get the record because Lions had game in hand. Talk about CLASS.

Isn't that the truth.....

[conversationpc]

Sanders was the better running back between he and Payton...Anyone who says otherwise has SFB syndrome.

[S2M]

Sanders was the better running back between he and Sanders...Anyone who says otherwise has SFB syndrome.

is that Shit For Brains Syndrome?

I just guessed....

[conversationpc]

Sanders was the better running back between he and Sanders...Anyone who says otherwise has SFB syndrome.

is that Shit For Brains Syndrome?

I just guessed....

You got it.

[Enigma869]

Thanks for proving my point. Being more complete makes you better. Barry may (or may not) have been a better runner but Walter did it all.

It proves your point in your own Chicago-colored mind. You're on here telling us that because Walter punted the ball and threw passes that he's better. That's a moronic argument. You certainly can't make the argument that Payton is better based on running the ball as a running back. Sanders averaged more yards per carry with zero offensive line and bad teams, throughout his career. Argument over!

Again, they took him out on short yardage situations, Walter did not.

What's your fucking point, dude? Yes, Detroit had moronic coaches (Fontes) in the Sanders era, and they still do. If you seriously believe that because Barry's coaches didn't let him play on the goal line that Walter is the better back, you're a dope! Putting a 240lb fullback in on the goal line has never been unusual and still happens in the NFL. That doesn't mean I think Lorenzo Neal is a better back than Tomlinson (although sadly, he might be now).

Some even say Walter was the best football player period. I've rarely heard anyone say Barry was the best.

That's because you never leave Chicago! In my opinion, Payton is a top 5 running back. I would never rank him number one overall, because the numbers simply don't support it, whether you're from Chicago or not!

Honestly, the one most people say is the best is Jim Brown.

Right, and I didn't say Sanders was better than Brown. I've seen plenty of film of Jim Brown, and he was one bad m'f'er! Brown holds the NFL record for most yards per carry in NFL history, and that's the number one measuring stick for an NFL running back, so I wouldn't argue with anyone who ranked Brown number one. Someone can at least back up the Jim Brown argument with actual numbers that can't be refuted. The numbers for Payton simply aren't there, when compared to Sanders! Aside from the numbers actually being better, my eyes also told me Sanders was better. For the record, I think Detroit is a shithole of a city, so it's not like I'm sticking up for Sanders, because of some love I have for Detroit. The dude was simply a STUD running back who couldn't be stopped, even though his own team tried like hell!

You can take all of your other RBs, I'll take Walter and our Superbowl over your Patriots.

The Patriots were irrelevant that season and weren't even good enough to be in the Super Bowl, in spite of having won three road playoff games to get there. That 1985 Bears team was the best defense I've ever seen (even to this day), and the Bears would have defeated any team who got in their way. As for the "our superbowl" comment, let me know if you'd like to compare the number of trophies in each organization's trophy case!

Barry never lead his team to a Superbowl.

I'll tell you exactly what you told Dean...You lost ALL credibility with that comment! It's a moronic statement to make. Football is the ultimate team sport, and one guy will NEVER EVER EVER win a championship by himself. There have been MANY great players who didn't win championships, and Payton only won his single championship at the very end of his career, and it was because of his great defense! Last I checked, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl either, and he's in almost everyone's top 5 QB lists of all time!

[S2M]

To be fair, John...a .2 difference is hardly a contention for placing one above another. His ave. yards per game smokes Barry's.

[Enigma869]

To be fair, John...a .2 difference is hardly a contention for placing one above another. His ave. yards per game smokes Barry's.

Who are you referring to who "smokes" Barry? Brown?

[S2M]

To be fair, John...a .2 difference is hardly a contention for placing one above another. His ave. yards per game smokes Barry's.

Who are you referring to who "smokes" Barry? Brown?

I was saying that Brown only has .2 difference in career rushing ave. 5.0 to 5.2. But his YPG ave. is a bit higher. 99 yds to 104 yds. All I'm saying.

Splitting hairs, actually.....I still pick Barry.

[Enigma869]

I was saying that Brown only has .2 difference in career rushing ave. 5.0 to 5.2. But his YPG ave. is a bit higher. 99 yds to 104 yds. All I'm saying.

Splitting hairs, actually.....I still pick Barry.

I think you know how I feel about Barry. I agree that .2 isn't a huge difference, but Brown is still the number one guy in the history of the NFL, and that can't be taken from the guy. Also, if you watched the guy play, he was a FREAK who just bowled anyone in his way over. Honestly, comparing him to Barry is almost impossible. Aside from playing the same position, they are two guys who had nothing else in common.

[S2M]

I was saying that Brown only has .2 difference in career rushing ave. 5.0 to 5.2. But his YPG ave. is a bit higher. 99 yds to 104 yds. All I'm saying.

Splitting hairs, actually.....I still pick Barry.

I think you know how I feel about Barry. I agree that .2 isn't a huge difference, but Brown is still the number one guy in the history of the NFL, and that can't be taken from the guy. Also, if you watched the guy play, he was a FREAK who just bowled anyone in his way over. Honestly, comparing him to Barry is almost impossible. Aside from playing the same position, they are two guys who had nothing else in common.

You are absolutely right. Sanders= Class. Brown = no class.

[Rockindeano]

To be fair, John...a .2 difference is hardly a contention for placing one above another. His ave. yards per game smokes Barry's.

Who are you referring to who "smokes" Barry? Brown?

I was saying that Brown only has .2 difference in career rushing ave. 5.0 to 5.2. But his YPG ave. is a bit higher. 99 yds to 104 yds. All I'm saying.

Splitting hairs, actually.....I still pick Barry.

Actually, the fact that Barry played for a shitty team is a fact that is hard to ignore. Not only did he have a shitty O line, a shitty coach, and played in a shitty town, but remember, he couldn't run against the Lion Defense either. Payton had that luxury every year, twice in fact. Hell, if I was a RB, I would want to go to Minn, GB, and CHI. That way, I could get some big numbers on Lion weekends.

[Tito]

Thanks for proving my point. Being more complete makes you better. Barry may (or may not) have been a better runner but Walter did it all.

It proves your point in your own Chicago-colored mind. You're on here telling us that because Walter punted the ball and threw passes that he's better. That's a moronic argument. You certainly can't make the argument that Payton is better based on running the ball as a running back. Sanders averaged more yards per carry with zero offensive line and bad teams, throughout his career. Argument over!

Again, they took him out on short yardage situations, Walter did not.

What's your fucking point, dude? Yes, Detroit had moronic coaches (Fontes) in the Sanders era, and they still do. If you seriously believe that because Barry's coaches didn't let him play on the goal line that Walter is the better back, you're a dope! Putting a 240lb fullback in on the goal line has never been unusual and still happens in the NFL. That doesn't mean I think Lorenzo Neal is a better back than Tomlinson (although sadly, he might be now).

Some even say Walter was the best football player period. I've rarely heard anyone say Barry was the best.

That's because you never leave Chicago! In my opinion, Payton is a top 5 running back. I would never rank him number one overall, because the numbers simply don't support it, whether you're from Chicago or not!

Honestly, the one most people say is the best is Jim Brown.

Right, and I didn't say Sanders was better than Brown. I've seen plenty of film of Jim Brown, and he was one bad m'f'er! Brown holds the NFL record for most yards per carry in NFL history, and that's the number one measuring stick for an NFL running back, so I wouldn't argue with anyone who ranked Brown number one. Someone can at least back up the Jim Brown argument with actual numbers that can't be refuted. The numbers for Payton simply aren't there, when compared to Sanders! Aside from the numbers actually being better, my eyes also told me Sanders was better. For the record, I think Detroit is a shithole of a city, so it's not like I'm sticking up for Sanders, because of some love I have for Detroit. The dude was simply a STUD running back who couldn't be stopped, even though his own team tried like hell!

You can take all of your other RBs, I'll take Walter and our Superbowl over your Patriots.

The Patriots were irrelevant that season and weren't even good enough to be in the Super Bowl, in spite of having won three road playoff games to get there. That 1985 Bears team was the best defense I've ever seen (even to this day), and the Bears would have defeated any team who got in their way. As for the "our superbowl" comment, let me know if you'd like to compare the number of trophies in each organization's trophy case!

Barry never lead his team to a Superbowl.

I'll tell you exactly what you told Dean...You lost ALL credibility with that comment! It's a moronic statement to make. Football is the ultimate team sport, and one guy will NEVER EVER EVER win a championship by himself. There have been MANY great players who didn't win championships, and Payton only won his single championship at the very end of his career, and it was because of his great defense! Last I checked, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl either, and he's in almost everyone's top 5 QB lists of all time!

What does being from Chicago have anything to do with this. Yes, I've seen more games with Payton but that is the reason I know he was awesome. I've seen enough Sanders games too. They both were great but Payton was the more complete running back bottom line. Sanders may have been the better runner (he was definitely quicker) but Walter could catch a pass out of the backfield or run it. Again, Sanders ran in a favorable offensive scheme for a number of years. He ran against 6 DBs on the field, he should plow over them. Walter didn't come out at the goal line and he and Sanders are basically the same size. Finally, the Bears have 9 NFL Championships/Superbowl champs.

[T-TIME]

His name is D'angelo Williams. I'm not saying he is Barry, but he is the closest thing I've seen to Barry since.....Barry.

I thought the same damn thing as I was watching.

[Ehwmatt]

I ran into Jim Brown in the airport a couple weeks ago at the news stand. The guy can barely even walk anymore. Fucker was so physical in his prime, but man it took its toll on him.

[Tito]

I ran into Jim Brown in the airport a couple weeks ago at the news stand. The guy can barely even walk anymore. Fucker was so physical in his prime, but man it took its toll on him.

Thank god you didn't say anything to him, he probably would've called you a honky.